overblown scenrioes of trading up in the draft

Originally posted by sfout:

Originally posted by kryptonite13:

Did you notice last year how crabtree and boldin had to overextend their bodies to catch the ball. why? Kaep is good, but at 6'4 even with a 3 quarters release he is not as accurate as you would like him to be. Luckily we have 2 excellent receivers. so what's missing? I think it's a go too rec that supercedes anything we currently have. And that person is Kelvin Benjamin. Height Hands Leaping ability- he hangs in the air- and for a big man very good speed. I noticed when Kaep threw to vance mcDonald that he did not look as pressured, he did not have to try as hard. A bigger target seems to help him. Beckham, and Marquise lee are gifted but do not warrant moving up in the draft. The latest rumors have the niners trading up, I think it's amistake. What you're seeing is panick. If we do move up it will be because someone is trying to save his job.

LOL?

So you're saying Jed is considering firing Baalke and/or Harbaugh? Because in all likelihood there is going to be some sort of a trade up. We simply don't have enough holes in the roster to sit back and take BPA.

Seriously!!! I see no "panick" at all and wonder at the mindset of a poster who spins it this way. Only Roman's job could be described as in any way vulnerable and he is hardly in a position to dictate that we will trade up.

I honestly don't think we will have to trade up to get the players we want. Although many receivers are slated to go in the first, there should still be some good ones available in the first. The only trade I'm open to is for Verrett. We NEED someone with his skill set to cover the slot and a move up will ensure we get him. The only thing is that the size concerns may scare teams off and we might be able to wait until he falls to 30. I'd LOVE to trade up for O'dell Beckham, but we'd have to give up a lot of second and third round gold (and possibly a later pick) to get him if we intend on drafting Verrett. Is Beckham alone > a combination of Donte Moncrief and (choose one) Robert Herron, Bruce Ellington, Dri Archer, AND another solid player? I don't think so. I'm interested in seeing who falls in this draft and how we can take advantage of those opportunities.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
I honestly don't think we will have to trade up to get the players we want. Although many receivers are slated to go in the first, there should still be some good ones available in the first. The only trade I'm open to is for Verrett. We NEED someone with his skill set to cover the slot and a move up will ensure we get him. The only thing is that the size concerns may scare teams off and we might be able to wait until he falls to 30. I'd LOVE to trade up for O'dell Beckham, but we'd have to give up a lot of second and third round gold (and possibly a later pick) to get him if we intend on drafting Verrett. Is Beckham alone > a combination of Donte Moncrief and (choose one) Robert Herron, Bruce Ellington, Dri Archer, AND another solid player? I don't think so. I'm interested in seeing who falls in this draft and how we can take advantage of those opportunities.

I am in the opposite school of thought. We are not the same position as other teams. We only have a few roster spots to fill. If we draft 11 players, 5 or 6 will be cut before the seasons starts. We have so many high draft picks that we could trade a few away and still have as many draft picks remaining as all other teams.

If the front office identifies a speed WR, such as Beckham, as being a good fit for the team, then they should make the move to get him. I do think that Beckham may be better than the combination of Moncrief, Ellington, and another player, because these players don't immediately fit what the 49ers should be looking for.

The key is all in how the front office evaluates a player like Beckham. If they are very high on him, then I have no problem with a move guaranteed to secure him, even if that means a trade as high as the ninth pick, with a swap of first round picks, a second, third, fifth round, and a 2015 third round. If Beckham is only a little better than some of these other players mentioned, then obviously the move doesn't make sense. Also, if the team is very high on Verrett, and likes the WR options later, obviously it makes sense to conduct the draft as you suggest. I like Verrett, I do question whether he is what the 49ers are looking for.

I guess we'll see next week.

Originally posted by sfout:

okay just because I have to do this....This is from my research for my mock that I'll be posting this weekend......Nice plug right?

The Core (based off of starting, contributions, contracts)

1. Kaepernick, Colin QB
2. Gore, Frank RB
3. Hunter, Kendall RB
4. Lattimore, Marcus RB
5. Davis, Vernon TE
6. McDonald, Vance TE
7. Boldin, Anquan WR
8. Crabtree, Michael WR
9. Patton, Quinton WR
10. Osgood, Kassim WR
11. Miller, Bruce FB
12. Staley, Joe T
13. Iupati, Mike G
14. Kilgore, Daniel C
15. Boone, Alex G
16. Davis, Anthony T
17. Looney, Joe G

1. Dial, Quinton DL
2. Dorsey, Glenn DL
3. McDonald, Ray DT
4. Smith, Justin DT
5. Carradine, Tank DT
6. Williams, Ian NT
7. Jerod-Eddie, Tony DT
8. Willis, Patrick LB
9. Bowman, NaVorro LB
10. Brooks, Ahmad LB
11. Smith, Aldon LB
12. Lemonier, Corey LB
13. Moody, Nick LB
14. Skuta, Dan LB
15. Wilhoite, Michael LB
16. Brock, Tramaine CB
17. Culliver, Chris CB
18. Morris, Darryl CB
19. Reid, Eric S
20. Bethea, Antoine S
21. Dahl, Craig S
22. Spillman, C.J. S
23. Ventrone, Bubba S

1. Dawson, Phil K
2. McDermott, Kevin LS
3. Lee, Andy P

Players that will likely still still be on the team during the regular season

1. Snyder, Adam G
2. Gabbert, Blaine QB
3. Martin, Jonathan T
4. Chris Cook CB
5. Bradon Lloyd WR
6. Perrish Cox CB
7. LaMichael James RB

Players with highest chance of making the practice squad and an outside chance at the 53

1. Carter Bykowski OL
2. Chuck Jacobs WR
3. Dax Swanson CB
4. Campbell, D.J. S
5. Luke Marquardt OL
6. Al Netter OL
7. Lawrence Okoye DL

Players with highest likelihood of being cut/replaced

1. Bethel-Thompson, McLeod QB
2. Hampton, Jewel RB
3. Celek, Garrett TE
4. Carrier, Derek TE
5. Dobbs, Demarcus TE/DT
6. Baldwin, Jon WR
7. Tukuafu, Will FB
8. Seymour, Ryan OG
9. Fleming, Darius LB

Training camp bodies

1. Reed, David WR
2. Sampson, DeMarco WR
3. Wylie, Devon WR
4. Purcell, Mike DT
5. Christian Tupou
6. Schmidt, Colton P

SO for the TL:DR version. We've got 43 core players that are almost set in stone, 7 more that will 75-90% be on the roster on week 1. I do have doubts about Cook, Martin, and Gabbert but either way they are replaceable with 3rd rounders or later, especially Gabbert because of the depth of QB this year, I think Marquardt may very well beat Martin out for the final OL spot, Ryan Seymour may even knock Adam Snyder of the 53, Dax Swanson is a dark horse that could supplant either Cook or Cox.

Of the 22 players outside of the top 50 -- most of them have NFL experience and I'd bet money that at least 3/4s of them would be claimed or signed to active rosters after we release them.

We in all honesty probably have AT MOST 5 roster spots open for this season. If we actually select more than that they will be day 3 players we are really giving fliers on or given our now obvious desire to redshirt players they could be medically question players like Easley, Colvin, Millard.

I reiterate, I believe we have at best 3 to 5 spots on THIS year's final 53 open for the taking. If Baalke doesn't trade up it would be a huge WTF?!

I love the analysis, but I think you are giving a few players too much credit as being core guys.

Osgood, Dahl, Morris, Ventrone, Dial, Moody are players with special teams value, but do not contribute to their respective offensive or defensive positions - outside of Morris and Dial, who remain question marks. So let's remove them from the equation.

Now, assuming that 5 out of 7 of the most likely guys actually make the team, the total is now 42 players - leaving room for 19 slots for the active roster and practice squad.

Baalke and Harbaugh love the saying "iron sharpens iron" and you don't just draft for the season, but for future seasons. This is the perfect draft to upgrade depth, acquire skill players, and set ourselves up for success in 2014 and beyond.

So while I understand your point, I think we will actually have more roster spot openings than you anticipate.

Originally posted by T-9ers:
I'm only down to move up for a corner who can start immediately.

THIS!!!!

That's a clown post, bro

Lol at the mindset " there will be some good receivers left". So you want us to pick from the left overs even tho we have 11 picks and about a handful of roster slots? While the draft may be deep it is not endless. There is a reason some receivers will go higher and others will go later. The further you wait the more flawed players become. I GUARANTEE a trade up happens. The Niners want THEIR GUY and they have the luxury of being able to get him.

Originally posted by Wisconsin49erfan:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
I honestly don't think we will have to trade up to get the players we want. Although many receivers are slated to go in the first, there should still be some good ones available in the first. The only trade I'm open to is for Verrett. We NEED someone with his skill set to cover the slot and a move up will ensure we get him. The only thing is that the size concerns may scare teams off and we might be able to wait until he falls to 30. I'd LOVE to trade up for O'dell Beckham, but we'd have to give up a lot of second and third round gold (and possibly a later pick) to get him if we intend on drafting Verrett. Is Beckham alone > a combination of Donte Moncrief and (choose one) Robert Herron, Bruce Ellington, Dri Archer, AND another solid player? I don't think so. I'm interested in seeing who falls in this draft and how we can take advantage of those opportunities.

I am in the opposite school of thought. We are not the same position as other teams. We only have a few roster spots to fill. If we draft 11 players, 5 or 6 will be cut before the seasons starts. We have so many high draft picks that we could trade a few away and still have as many draft picks remaining as all other teams.

If the front office identifies a speed WR, such as Beckham, as being a good fit for the team, then they should make the move to get him. I do think that Beckham may be better than the combination of Moncrief, Ellington, and another player, because these players don't immediately fit what the 49ers should be looking for.

The key is all in how the front office evaluates a player like Beckham. If they are very high on him, then I have no problem with a move guaranteed to secure him, even if that means a trade as high as the ninth pick, with a swap of first round picks, a second, third, fifth round, and a 2015 third round. If Beckham is only a little better than some of these other players mentioned, then obviously the move doesn't make sense. Also, if the team is very high on Verrett, and likes the WR options later, obviously it makes sense to conduct the draft as you suggest. I like Verrett, I do question whether he is what the 49ers are looking for.

I guess we'll see next week.

I LOVE Beckham, but I don't think he is THAT much better than the value ALL of the players we'd miss out on in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th/5th rounds combined would provide. Also, I'm in favor of doing some trades, but not to move high up in the first. Rather, I prefer we make some moves to acquire more 2nd and 3rd round picks. Especially if we can get Verrett at 30. It all depends on how the draft will fall. There is also the prospect of trading away some of the later picks for 2015 picks.

You also have to remember, it is not a forgone conclusion that everyone under contract is a lock. But it will be a very interesting Thursday. I think Jason Verrett falls to 30, we get a dynamic slot corner without giving up a thing, and are in a position to move up into the 2nd and third rounds with some of our later picks. I think we can possibly trade our 4th, 5th, and LaMichael James to pick up an extra 3rd. So although we may not absolutely have to use all of our picks, I am not in favor of trading away valuable 2nd or 3rd round picks to move up. If anything, we should use the later picks to move up into the third. There will be a great deal of future starters in the 2nd and 3rd available. We shouldn't give up drafting those guys unless it's an absolute game changer, in the mold of Adrian Peterson, Calvin Johnson, etc.

Originally posted by Eastbay9er:

THIS!!!!

I'm with you

I'd like to see them trade up, but mostly in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Either move up into the early part of the 2nd round to snag a guy like Tuitt, or move up using Tennessee's pick to acquire a third 2nd round pick. The depth of this draft is in the 2nd and 3rd rounds and there's going to be some top-notch premium talent still hanging around, particularly in the mid to late 2nd round.

Originally posted by Eastbay9er:

Originally posted by T-9ers:

I'm only down to move up for a corner who can start immediately.

THIS!!!!

I meant I with you

I'm for trading up a reasonable amount into the area we did last year IF we can get an impact WR or CB.

I'm more in favor of trading back 4-6 picks into the 2nd round and getting a VERY good WR and CB.

IMO, we have to come out of this draft w. a starting caliber CB and WR.

we have been planning and stock piling picks for the future enough...we need to make the necessary push to go for it all this year. We need players who can contribute in big ways NOW!!! im tired of falling short

I could see Baalke trading up for Dennard or Fuller...but definitely not Beckham. Get one of the top CB's, then grab Matthews, Adams or Latimer early 2nd (another trade up, but less expensive). Critically important to get Crabtree's replacement early...smaller slot receiver/KR can come later (i.e. Ellington, Herron, etc.).