Dri Archer vs DeAnthony Thomas

Baalke won't draft either guy, IMHO. Better, bigger options available.

Why do you guys insist on drafting these guys. We can barely get LMJ on the field, and you want to add another player of the same elk?

Originally posted by ivanm05:

Why do you guys insist on drafting these guys. We can barely get LMJ on the field, and you want to add another player of the same elk?

They're nothing like James except in height. James had 51 career college catches (17 a season all 3 years). Everyone wants to say James should be used in screens and yada yada, but the pass catching experience is not there. Where both Thomas and Archer have lined up in slot, and actually ran routes and caught balls. You seeing them listed as RB and are being narrow minded in your opinion of them. Where in reality, the comparison should be to Tavon Austin or Percy Harvin. Harvin, in fact, had more college rushes than catches. They all are slot guys, that add a wrinkle to the run game on jet sweeps, reverses, and as a change of pace speed back that could catch out of the backfield. Thomas and Archer are both way more versatile than James.

thomas is shorter-stride quick; archer is both super quick and super fast. like chris johnson, archer eats up big chunks of yards in the open field--that's not something you can teach. gameplan him correctly and he will be a mid-level difference maker. mid-to-late 3rd for me.
i don't see thomas doing anything big in the nfl.

Originally posted by Travisty13:

Originally posted by ivanm05:
Why do you guys insist on drafting these guys. We can barely get LMJ on the field, and you want to add another player of the same elk?

They're nothing like James except in height. James had 51 career college catches (17 a season all 3 years). Everyone wants to say James should be used in screens and yada yada, but the pass catching experience is not there. Where both Thomas and Archer have lined up in slot, and actually ran routes and caught balls. You seeing them listed as RB and are being narrow minded in your opinion of them. Where in reality, the comparison should be to Tavon Austin or Percy Harvin. Harvin, in fact, had more college rushes than catches. They all are slot guys, that add a wrinkle to the run game on jet sweeps, reverses, and as a change of pace speed back that could catch out of the backfield. Thomas and Archer are both way more versatile than James.

But they can't block and get off coverage. If you can't block and can't create your own separation, you're not gonna get any snaps, no matter how fast or versatile you may be. Just ask AJ Jenkins? No matter how much we'd like to see these type of players get the ball in space, it's not gonna happen with this offense. It deviates too much from our basic personnel and formations. When we put James out there, or potentially Archer or Thomas, it tips the defense.

IMO these type of players in this offense need artificial plays to get touches, and that just isn't gonna happen. They're not gonna curtail their entire offense for scatback like these. They havn't done it for LMJ who is a better running back than any of these guys. If anything, Lattimore could be included in the passing game, if that's what you want. He has great hands and he can pass protect, so that's where he becomes versatile. You don't know if Kaep is gonna pull back and rip it, or if he's gonna dump it to Lattimore.

When LMJ or Archer or Thomas on the field, you know they're not gonna be able to pick up the blitz.

Originally posted by ivanm05:

Originally posted by Travisty13:

Originally posted by ivanm05:

Why do you guys insist on drafting these guys. We can barely get LMJ on the field, and you want to add another player of the same elk?

They're nothing like James except in height. James had 51 career college catches (17 a season all 3 years). Everyone wants to say James should be used in screens and yada yada, but the pass catching experience is not there. Where both Thomas and Archer have lined up in slot, and actually ran routes and caught balls. You seeing them listed as RB and are being narrow minded in your opinion of them. Where in reality, the comparison should be to Tavon Austin or Percy Harvin. Harvin, in fact, had more college rushes than catches. They all are slot guys, that add a wrinkle to the run game on jet sweeps, reverses, and as a change of pace speed back that could catch out of the backfield. Thomas and Archer are both way more versatile than James.

But they can't block and get off coverage. If you can't block and can't create your own separation, you're not gonna get any snaps, no matter how fast or versatile you may be. Just ask AJ Jenkins? No matter how much we'd like to see these type of players get the ball in space, it's not gonna happen with this offense. It deviates too much from our basic personnel and formations. When we put James out there, or potentially Archer or Thomas, it tips the defense.

IMO these type of players in this offense need artificial plays to get touches, and that just isn't gonna happen. They're not gonna curtail their entire offense for scatback like these. They havn't done it for LMJ who is a better running back than any of these guys. If anything, Lattimore could be included in the passing game, if that's what you want. He has great hands and he can pass protect, so that's where he becomes versatile. You don't know if Kaep is gonna pull back and rip it, or if he's gonna dump it to Lattimore.

When LMJ or Archer or Thomas on the field, you know they're not gonna be able to pick up the blitz.

See again, you're losing the point my argument. They aren't RBs. They are slot receivers. They are Wes Welker, Victor Cruz, Tavon Austin, Kyle Williams. Get it? Stop comparing them to James or Lattimore. They're slot WRs. Which is exactly what Baalke and the front office are looking for (inquiries to Julius Edelman, Dexter McCluster, Desean Jackson; bring in slot WR Albert Wilson for a pre-draft visit). Plus they all can return kicks, which seems like another trait Baalke is looking at. It's only an added bonus that Archer/Thomas can play some RB if need or a situation arises. But they aren't RBs. They're WRs.

Originally posted by Travisty13:
They're nothing like James except in height. James had 51 career college catches (17 a season all 3 years). Everyone wants to say James should be used in screens and yada yada, but the pass catching experience is not there. Where both Thomas and Archer have lined up in slot, and actually ran routes and caught balls. You seeing them listed as RB and are being narrow minded in your opinion of them. Where in reality, the comparison should be to Tavon Austin or Percy Harvin. Harvin, in fact, had more college rushes than catches. They all are slot guys, that add a wrinkle to the run game on jet sweeps, reverses, and as a change of pace speed back that could catch out of the backfield. Thomas and Archer are both way more versatile than James.

This.

Dri Archer highlight video.



DeAnthony Thomas highlight video.

Originally posted by DeUh:

Dri Archer highlight video.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAy_a2pNdMw"> DeAnthony Thomas highlight video.

That shows exactly why DAT was the most electrifying player in college football. Had Thomas ran a 4.34/4.35 at the Combine, instead of his pro-day people wouldn't be selling him so short. His change of direction and natural moves in the open field are ridiculous.

Originally posted by Travisty13:

That shows exactly why DAT was the most electrifying player in college football. Had Thomas ran a 4.34/4.35 at the Combine, instead of his pro-day people wouldn't be selling him so short. His change of direction and natural moves in the open field are ridiculous.

You can't compare pro day 40 times with combine 40 times. A 4.34 at the combine is much more impressive than a hand-timed 4.34 at a pro day under different conditions. His pro day time is equivalent to a 4.4 or 4.5 combine time depending on the wind and surface.

In Oregon's offense, Archer would have been the most electrifying player in college football. They put players in position to take advantage of their speed and elusiveness. Having said that, I'm not sure Thomas was the most electrifying player this year and Archer was last year.

Originally posted by Travisty13:

Originally posted by ivanm05:

Originally posted by Travisty13:

Originally posted by ivanm05:

Why do you guys insist on drafting these guys. We can barely get LMJ on the field, and you want to add another player of the same elk?

They're nothing like James except in height. James had 51 career college catches (17 a season all 3 years). Everyone wants to say James should be used in screens and yada yada, but the pass catching experience is not there. Where both Thomas and Archer have lined up in slot, and actually ran routes and caught balls. You seeing them listed as RB and are being narrow minded in your opinion of them. Where in reality, the comparison should be to Tavon Austin or Percy Harvin. Harvin, in fact, had more college rushes than catches. They all are slot guys, that add a wrinkle to the run game on jet sweeps, reverses, and as a change of pace speed back that could catch out of the backfield. Thomas and Archer are both way more versatile than James.

But they can't block and get off coverage. If you can't block and can't create your own separation, you're not gonna get any snaps, no matter how fast or versatile you may be. Just ask AJ Jenkins? No matter how much we'd like to see these type of players get the ball in space, it's not gonna happen with this offense. It deviates too much from our basic personnel and formations. When we put James out there, or potentially Archer or Thomas, it tips the defense.

IMO these type of players in this offense need artificial plays to get touches, and that just isn't gonna happen. They're not gonna curtail their entire offense for scatback like these. They havn't done it for LMJ who is a better running back than any of these guys. If anything, Lattimore could be included in the passing game, if that's what you want. He has great hands and he can pass protect, so that's where he becomes versatile. You don't know if Kaep is gonna pull back and rip it, or if he's gonna dump it to Lattimore.

When LMJ or Archer or Thomas on the field, you know they're not gonna be able to pick up the blitz.

See again, you're losing the point my argument. They aren't RBs. They are slot receivers. They are Wes Welker, Victor Cruz, Tavon Austin, Kyle Williams. Get it? Stop comparing them to James or Lattimore. They're slot WRs. Which is exactly what Baalke and the front office are looking for (inquiries to Julius Edelman, Dexter McCluster, Desean Jackson; bring in slot WR Albert Wilson for a pre-draft visit). Plus they all can return kicks, which seems like another trait Baalke is looking at. It's only an added bonus that Archer/Thomas can play some RB if need or a situation arises. But they aren't RBs. They're WRs.

Even as Wide receivers bro.. if anyone is playing slot it's Quinton Patton.. look at tavon Austin.. it was so hard for him to get touches with the rams for the same reasons I told you earlier.. these guys weren't getting jammed at the line of scrimmage in college.. the nfl is completely different..if there's a fat shifty reicever that the niners will draft it's Brandin Cooks. He might take a shot w one of these guys if they're available in the 5th and 7th rounds.. no way he uses one of the top 100 picks on one of these guys. Theyre just not a priority in our offense. They work in shotgun spread offenses where they can get the ball in space..teams like the saints and eagles.. I'm sorry but as good as u think they are.. they don't work w what the niners do on offense.

Dri Archer's combine put Thomas to shame. He's all around a better prospect than Thomas, with the exception of maybe run power, but neither guy is a between the tackle runner so it's irrelevant. I think Archer has more potential upside and comes in at a higher floor than Thomas. Perhaps Thomas has a better draft value (possible 7th rounder) than Archer (predicted for 4th round). Neither one fits on the 49ers imo. Might as well keep James, who has shown some ability to be a RB and is a good returner.

Originally posted by ivanm05:

Originally posted by Travisty13:

Originally posted by ivanm05:

Originally posted by Travisty13:

Originally posted by ivanm05:

Why do you guys insist on drafting these guys. We can barely get LMJ on the field, and you want to add another player of the same elk?

They're nothing like James except in height. James had 51 career college catches (17 a season all 3 years). Everyone wants to say James should be used in screens and yada yada, but the pass catching experience is not there. Where both Thomas and Archer have lined up in slot, and actually ran routes and caught balls. You seeing them listed as RB and are being narrow minded in your opinion of them. Where in reality, the comparison should be to Tavon Austin or Percy Harvin. Harvin, in fact, had more college rushes than catches. They all are slot guys, that add a wrinkle to the run game on jet sweeps, reverses, and as a change of pace speed back that could catch out of the backfield. Thomas and Archer are both way more versatile than James.

But they can't block and get off coverage. If you can't block and can't create your own separation, you're not gonna get any snaps, no matter how fast or versatile you may be. Just ask AJ Jenkins? No matter how much we'd like to see these type of players get the ball in space, it's not gonna happen with this offense. It deviates too much from our basic personnel and formations. When we put James out there, or potentially Archer or Thomas, it tips the defense.

IMO these type of players in this offense need artificial plays to get touches, and that just isn't gonna happen. They're not gonna curtail their entire offense for scatback like these. They havn't done it for LMJ who is a better running back than any of these guys. If anything, Lattimore could be included in the passing game, if that's what you want. He has great hands and he can pass protect, so that's where he becomes versatile. You don't know if Kaep is gonna pull back and rip it, or if he's gonna dump it to Lattimore.

When LMJ or Archer or Thomas on the field, you know they're not gonna be able to pick up the blitz.

See again, you're losing the point my argument. They aren't RBs. They are slot receivers. They are Wes Welker, Victor Cruz, Tavon Austin, Kyle Williams. Get it? Stop comparing them to James or Lattimore. They're slot WRs. Which is exactly what Baalke and the front office are looking for (inquiries to Julius Edelman, Dexter McCluster, Desean Jackson; bring in slot WR Albert Wilson for a pre-draft visit). Plus they all can return kicks, which seems like another trait Baalke is looking at. It's only an added bonus that Archer/Thomas can play some RB if need or a situation arises. But they aren't RBs. They're WRs.

Even as Wide receivers bro.. if anyone is playing slot it's Quinton Patton.. look at tavon Austin.. it was so hard for him to get touches with the rams for the same reasons I told you earlier.. these guys weren't getting jammed at the line of scrimmage in college.. the nfl is completely different..if there's a fat shifty reicever that the niners will draft it's Brandin Cooks. He might take a shot w one of these guys if they're available in the 5th and 7th rounds.. no way he uses one of the top 100 picks on one of these guys. Theyre just not a priority in our offense. They work in shotgun spread offenses where they can get the ball in space..teams like the saints and eagles.. I'm sorry but as good as u think they are.. they don't work w what the niners do on offense.

First off, you must not know the Rams offensive coordinator is Brian Schottenheimer, possibly one of the worst OCs in the NFL. He's unimaginative and hardly used Austin to his strengths.

Second, who said to take one of these guys in the top 100? Archer is projected as a 4th round guy, DAT is considered a late round guy. Neither near the top 100.

Third, I disagree that one of these speed guys isn't a priority to our offense. It most certainly is. And Baalke must think so too. He wanted to trade for Harvin last year, and rumors were we wanted Austin in the draft. This year in Free Agency, we flirted with Julien Edelman, Desean Jackson, Dexter McCullers. So Baalke definitely wants one of these type WRs. And if you can't see that you're being naive.

Fourth, you say they "won't work with what the Niners do on offense". Says who? We've yet to have a WR with game changing speed and shiftiness like these type of WRs. Who have we had like that? No one. So who can say what our offense would be like with a WR like this, besides Harbaugh, Roman, and the staff. If this offseason has taught us anything, it's that it's clear Baalke and Harbaugh are working together to get the type of players Harbaugh desires. So reading between the lines, it sure looks like a speedy slot WR is what Harbaugh desires right now.

The niners predominantly used 2 wr sets. Rarely 3. Seldom four. If they line up three, it's gonna be Crabs, Anquan and Patton. Patton would rotate w the rookie wr they take early. If they line up four, it's the four I just mentioned, or VD minus one of them. So tell me, are you going to use a 4th round pick on a player that's only gonna see 3-5 snaps a game? If that.

I understand the interest in djax and edelman but for 1. They're proven commodities and 2. The interest was lukewarm at best.