Top Cornerback Short List - 4/11/13

What about Terry Hawthorne? how does he measure up against those guys

Like Ryan, Amerson, and Banks..

Have wanted Mathieu and this helps explain a little why.

Where is DJ Hayden? Interested to see his overall ranking.

Nice stats. It will be interesting to see how they would apply to Linemen and WRs.

Really like Poyer, think he really stood out at the senior bowl as well but is being somewhat overlooked due to average measurables.

I think production and measurables have to be equally weighted. Stats are heavily influenced by situations. Especially with CBs and other defensive players. Some of the best CBs have the lowest stats because QBs simply avoid throwing in their direction. Some average defensive backs have high tackle totals because their front 7 sucks. Some of the best DL have low stats because they are always being double teamed.

Also, you can't teach measurables. Can't teach speed/quickness. Strength and explosiveness can be developed, but takes a lot of time and effort and there are no guarantees.



With offensive players, I agree more with your weighting system. Defense is a bit different.

Blidi Wreh-Wilson has the best name in the draft

Originally posted by blm7754:
I think production and measurables have to be equally weighted. Stats are heavily influenced by situations. Especially with CBs and other defensive players. Some of the best CBs have the lowest stats because QBs simply avoid throwing in their direction. Some average defensive backs have high tackle totals because their front 7 sucks. Some of the best DL have low stats because they are always being double teamed.

Also, you can't teach measurables. Can't teach speed/quickness. Strength and explosiveness can be developed, but takes a lot of time and effort and there are no guarantees.



With offensive players, I agree more with your weighting system. Defense is a bit different.

Speed and quickness can be taught particularly if you are using any timed drills or events to measure speed or quickness.

Teaching speed and quickness, or it maybe better to say teaching draft prospects to improve their measurables is a big business.

Here is a list of the combine prep programs.

http://draftdaddy.com/features/speed.htm#SpeedRank

Originally posted by Jd925:

1 point - Passes defended
2 points - Interceptions
6 points - TDs
2 points - Forced fumbles
1 point - Sacks/Tackles for losses
.1 point - Solo Tackles
.05 point - Assist Tackles
2 points - Blocked kicks

First, you did a lot work. Thank you.

I have not yet digested the whole post, but I want to look at the points given.

You give two points for each interception and forced fumble.

I do not think a forced fumble should have the weight as an interception.

By definition, an interception results in a change of possession; a forced fumble does not.

You give one point for tackles for loss, sacks, and tackles.

Again by definition a sack or a tackle for a loss means that the play stopped the opponent for a loss; a tackle does not.

In fact, often a tackle by a corner back indicates that the opponent caught the ball--in other often it means the corner back got beat.
Clearly, that is not always the case, but it is something to consider.

But, I would definitely give more points for a sack and a tackle for a loss.

I have been trying figure out how to evaluate both Bacarri Rambo and Tyrann Mathieu, but I am finding it difficult.
Both have been suspended or lost games due to their off-the-field actions.
Those "lost" games are as important to a team as a tackle or a defended pass.

I am not sure, but it seems that there should be a penalty for each game lost.

As I said, I am still reading. Thanks for the effort.

Originally posted by NTeply49:
What about Terry Hawthorne? how does he measure up against those guys

Near the top end in measurables and avg production in Big Ten (4th ranked conference based on Teamrankings)
I did a quick check, but I'd have to get back to you on the full analysis since I'm working the safeties now...

Originally posted by Ninefan56:
Nice stats. It will be interesting to see how they would apply to Linemen and WRs.

thx.
Will do those after Safety.

Originally posted by 5280High:
Really like Poyer, think he really stood out at the senior bowl as well but is being somewhat overlooked due to average measurables.

Yeah. Will be very interesting. His vertical of 30.5" is bad and 40 time is low so he'll drop... but 10-15 corners usually go fast and probably in the first two rounds .......he's more of a zone cover corner, but has good ball instincts and anticipation. Corners fit in different schemes... Poyer didn't do much press. Xavier is probably the best press corner, Poyer in zone, Honeybadger as a nickel corner... (we could really used Honeybadger to neutralize Harvin in the slot)

Originally posted by blm7754:
I think production and measurables have to be equally weighted. Stats are heavily influenced by situations. Especially with CBs and other defensive players. Some of the best CBs have the lowest stats because QBs simply avoid throwing in their direction. Some average defensive backs have high tackle totals because their front 7 sucks. Some of the best DL have low stats because they are always being double teamed.

Also, you can't teach measurables. Can't teach speed/quickness. Strength and explosiveness can be developed, but takes a lot of time and effort and there are no guarantees.



With offensive players, I agree more with your weighting system. Defense is a bit different.

I agree with much of your sentiment. Tackles are not a good indicator when you have either a strong or porous front... I'd eventually make stat adjustments on that based on tackle opportunities. The double teams are also a very important factor that should be counted. JJ Watt is a great example.... The adjustment for QB avoidance was made in the passive stats category and is encompassed in the completion % against..... Xavier was avoided so he had the 2nd best ranking there after Poyer. Anyways I think the bias is still too much towards measurables and so I wanted to make sure my emphasis was on production. Maybe I'll have to adjust it to 60/40 or 50/50, but I'm sticking with 75/25 for now... It's just odd that it turned out many of the players with the most production in the 10 ten list turned out to have the worst measurables, but it will be a good test to the theory about productive players and success...

Originally posted by buck:
First, you did a lot work. Thank you.

I have not yet digested the whole post, but I want to look at the points given.

You give two points for each interception and forced fumble.

I do not think a forced fumble should have the weight as an interception.

By definition, an interception results in a change of possession; a forced fumble does not.

You give one point for tackles for loss, sacks, and tackles.

Again by definition a sack or a tackle for a loss means that the play stopped the opponent for a loss; a tackle does not.

In fact, often a tackle by a corner back indicates that the opponent caught the ball--in other often it means the corner back got beat.
Clearly, that is not always the case, but it is something to consider.

But, I would definitely give more points for a sack and a tackle for a loss.

I have been trying figure out how to evaluate both Bacarri Rambo and Tyrann Mathieu, but I am finding it difficult.
Both have been suspended or lost games due to their off-the-field actions.
Those "lost" games are as important to a team as a tackle or a defended pass.

I am not sure, but it seems that there should be a penalty for each game lost.

As I said, I am still reading. Thanks for the effort.

Thanks.. Yeah I might notch down FFs, but check this out:http://www.advancednflstats.com/2007/04/defensive-fumbles-forced.html

Tackles are 1/10th pt and assists are 1/20th for the reason you and someone else mentioned....

My list is purely based on stats & measurables. Character, football intelligence, work ethic & dedication, injury history are all very important .. these factors would typically be in the qualitative category, but as someone who focuses on stats I figure you can even quantify those qualitative measures.

I like Rambo from the numbers I've seen before and he's an SEC guy, but I am working on that now...

Thanks for your input!