Overrated/underrated

mine:

OVER:

Newton- Project, but has the most upside of any QB IMO.

Gabbert- Too much of a Alex clone, not as polished as some say, and the gimmick offense scares the heck out of me.

LeShoure- Has nice skills, but could be a one year wonder IMO.

Brandon Harris- A bit soft IMO.

Under:

Watt- Yes, he is like Justin Smith, but has a nonstop motor.

J.Smith- Love this kid, could be a top 15 pick

Ponder- Good skills, and has trememdous upside.

Originally posted by AB83Rules:
mine:

OVER:

Newton- Project, but has the most upside of any QB IMO.

Gabbert- Too much of a Alex clone, not as polished as some say, and the gimmick offense scares the heck out of me.

LeShoure- Has nice skills, but could be a one year wonder IMO.

Brandon Harris- A bit soft IMO.

Under:

Watt- Yes, he is like Justin Smith, but has a nonstop motor.

J.Smith- Love this kid, could be a top 15 pick

Ponder- Good skills, and has trememdous upside.

If I were to say one kid that I think is extremely overrated, the bolded would be it.

Brandon Harris completely underwhelms me. All the things wrong: Horrific in the tackling angles he takes, and altogether terrible form. He's going to get hurt trying to tackle the way he does sometimes. Horrific discipline and awareness biting on every single type of play-action or misdirection imaginable. Completely unpolished coverage skills, scary lack of production, and a small, barely over 5-9 corner who I think will end up a career Nickel man.

Harris does not deserve to go in the first round, and any team who picks him there is making an enormous reach.

Over rated- every QB projected in the first 4 rounds, especially Ponder.
Aside from Newton, all have low ceilings and all have negative concerns to deal with.

Under rated- Nick Fairley. People act like attitude is a bad thing in the NFL. Ever since the championship game people try to find negative things about him. He is a dominant game changer on the DL. Period.

Unsurprisingly, I just ran across video where Brandon Harris was getting ripped to shreds by analysts saying he may be nothing more than a 3rd or 4th corner in their eyes.

- They don't see playmaking ability with him

- They don't see an ability to close on the ball quickly

- They don't see nearly enough athleticism or strength to make up for his 5-9 size. The take is.. if he can't cover the slot guy, nor can he match up physically with big receivers, he's never going to be a starter.

I'm hearing "3rd round at best" right now, and the pundits basically are saying if he goes earlier, it's only because of a weak and not very deep CB class this year.

[ Edited by OnTheClock on Mar 29, 2011 at 13:24:41 ]

Originally posted by solidg2000:
Over rated- every QB projected in the first 4 rounds, especially Ponder.
Aside from Newton, all have low ceilings and all have negative concerns to deal with.

Under rated- Nick Fairley. People act like attitude is a bad thing in the NFL. Ever since the championship game people try to find negative things about him. He is a dominant game changer on the DL. Period.

I don't disagree about QB's being overrated, Always has been. But disagree about your comment about Ponder and Newton. I hate when they say high ceilings or higher ceiling than so and so-most times these types don't pan out. The ones that are NFL ready may not always make all pro but make a good and steady pro. The great ones are the ones that are NFL ready and havve huge upside.

The other problem is that these players are one year wonders-another dangerous barometer.

With Locker, everyone knows he has his flaws and regardless of how his Pro Day goes, I think his accuracy is going to scare teams off.

I'd imagine that teams would even be hesitant to spend a 2nd on him. Don't be surprised if he falls worse than Claussen. He might even make it to the 3rd.

After the draft I'd like to hear how Harbaugh rated him. I'm guessing he had him as a 4th-5th round prospect. I think the tram views Cam as a late 1st, early 2nd.

Originally posted by strickac:
With Locker, everyone knows he has his flaws and regardless of how his Pro Day goes, I think his accuracy is going to scare teams off.

I'd imagine that teams would even be hesitant to spend a 2nd on him. Don't be surprised if he falls worse than Claussen. He might even make it to the 3rd.

After the draft I'd like to hear how Harbaugh rated him. I'm guessing he had him as a 4th-5th round prospect. I think the tram views Cam as a late 1st, early 2nd.

Locker will go at least by the second easily. Clausen had numerous character/attitude issues and possessed nowhere near the athleticism. While Jake does have issues and I am certainly not a fan of his, it can't be denied he often carried his team on his back, was a leader, and gives a team a lot to work with as far as physical tools.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by strickac:
With Locker, everyone knows he has his flaws and regardless of how his Pro Day goes, I think his accuracy is going to scare teams off.

I'd imagine that teams would even be hesitant to spend a 2nd on him. Don't be surprised if he falls worse than Claussen. He might even make it to the 3rd.

After the draft I'd like to hear how Harbaugh rated him. I'm guessing he had him as a 4th-5th round prospect. I think the tram views Cam as a late 1st, early 2nd.

Locker will go at least by the second easily. Clausen had numerous character/attitude issues and possessed nowhere near the athleticism. While Jake does have issues and I am certainly not a fan of his, it can't be denied he often carried his team on his back, was a leader, and gives a team a lot to work with as far as physical tools.

I understand all of that, BUT he inaccurate and not anywhere close to starting, IMO atleast.

I think he'll fall hard, while Mallett gets drafted early. When it comes down to it, either a guy can put the ball where it needs to go or he can. Accuracy is king (atleast it should be) and Jake isn't that guy.

Originally posted by jacklegniner:
i don't understand why niner fans are so against Locker. i think he is also under-rated. last year they said if he came out he would be a top prospect if not #1 overall. so in a year he became a horrible QB??? Washington wasn't very good, and the receivers were horrible. he had to make plays. even if his mechanics are messed up, doesn't he have the right stuff in him from the year before with proper coaching. i feel like the same thing could happen to Andrew Luck this next year. if stanford doesn't have a good year and he looks different without harbaugh than are we going to say he's no good? Feel like Locker can be a good pro.

Over-rated here on the webzone is Kaepernick. everyone raves about him and talks like he should be a 1st rounder. he does have skills and has stats to look at but i think his delivery looks weird and there's a reason he's projected around the 4th. not saying he's horrible but too over-hyped.

I totally agree with Kaepernick, well overrated. I think Brooks Reed is kinda underrated

Originally posted by strickac:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by strickac:
With Locker, everyone knows he has his flaws and regardless of how his Pro Day goes, I think his accuracy is going to scare teams off.

I'd imagine that teams would even be hesitant to spend a 2nd on him. Don't be surprised if he falls worse than Claussen. He might even make it to the 3rd.

After the draft I'd like to hear how Harbaugh rated him. I'm guessing he had him as a 4th-5th round prospect. I think the tram views Cam as a late 1st, early 2nd.

Locker will go at least by the second easily. Clausen had numerous character/attitude issues and possessed nowhere near the athleticism. While Jake does have issues and I am certainly not a fan of his, it can't be denied he often carried his team on his back, was a leader, and gives a team a lot to work with as far as physical tools.

I understand all of that, BUT he inaccurate and not anywhere close to starting, IMO atleast.

I think he'll fall hard, while Mallett gets drafted early. When it comes down to it, either a guy can put the ball where it needs to go or he can. Accuracy is king (atleast it should be) and Jake isn't that guy.

Strick, it's not like coaches just look at a guy and say, "Well golly his stats say he's inaccurate. Welp, let's pack it up, that's it." They want to know why and try to determine if they can fix it.

If Locker had serious personal issues, or things that a coach couldn't correct mechanically, he'd fall. Locker has unpolished mechanics, which are extremely coachable. Everything Locker has in terms of "flaws" are things that an NFL coaching staff would love to have the ability to correct and in turn, make Locker an amazing football player.

Clausen is so polar opposite from Locker, comparing them just wouldn't make any sense. People are trying to compare Mallet to him, and that's a bunch of bologna really. He's a fiery guy who ticks people off sometimes, but he's not a locker room cancer. Now, the off-the-field stuff is a big question that seems to be hurting him, but regardless, there's no question he's exceptionally accurate with the ball.

But back to the other topic at hand -- Locker. The athleticism, leadership, very strong arm, and overall tremendous upside are going to get him picked in the top 64. Not trying to say at all that I want him, or even think he'll be good in the NFL, but just as far as projections go, you can rest assured he'll be a top 64 pick. Too many QB needy teams right now for him not be.

[ Edited by OnTheClock on Mar 29, 2011 at 19:52:45 ]

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by strickac:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by strickac:
With Locker, everyone knows he has his flaws and regardless of how his Pro Day goes, I think his accuracy is going to scare teams off.

I'd imagine that teams would even be hesitant to spend a 2nd on him. Don't be surprised if he falls worse than Claussen. He might even make it to the 3rd.

After the draft I'd like to hear how Harbaugh rated him. I'm guessing he had him as a 4th-5th round prospect. I think the tram views Cam as a late 1st, early 2nd.

Locker will go at least by the second easily. Clausen had numerous character/attitude issues and possessed nowhere near the athleticism. While Jake does have issues and I am certainly not a fan of his, it can't be denied he often carried his team on his back, was a leader, and gives a team a lot to work with as far as physical tools.

I understand all of that, BUT he inaccurate and not anywhere close to starting, IMO atleast.

I think he'll fall hard, while Mallett gets drafted early. When it comes down to it, either a guy can put the ball where it needs to go or he can. Accuracy is king (atleast it should be) and Jake isn't that guy.

Strick, it's not like coaches just look at a guy and say, "Well golly his stats say he's inaccurate. Welp, let's pack it up, that's it." They want to know why and try to determine if they can fix it.

If Locker had serious personal issues, or things that a coach couldn't correct mechanically, he'd fall. Locker has unpolished mechanics, which are extremely coachable. Everything Locker has in terms of "flaws" are things that an NFL coaching staff would love to have the ability to correct and in turn, make Locker an amazing football player.

Clausen is so polar opposite from Locker, comparing them just wouldn't make any sense. People are trying to compare Mallet to him, and that's a bunch of bologna really. He's a fiery guy who ticks people off sometimes, but he's not a locker room cancer. Now, the off-the-field stuff is a big question that seems to be hurting him, but regardless, there's no question he's exceptionally accurate with the ball.

But back to the other topic at hand -- Locker. The athleticism, leadership, very strong arm, and overall tremendous upside are going to get him picked in the top 64. Not trying to say at all that I want him, or even think he'll be good in the NFL, but just as far as projections go, you can rest assured he'll be a top 64 pick. Too many QB needy teams right now for him not be.

I agree that coaches will want to snag him and coach him up, but at what price? He's going to be seen as a project by many/most teams.

My problem with Jake is that I can't see him having any success early in his career because of his accuracy and tendency to tuck the ball and run. My feeling is that you only draft a QB early if you plan on playing him early on or if you have a really strong team and you want to hang on to a guy and groom him behind a quality starter (few teams have that luxury).

I think the best thing for him would be to get drafted by a team with an older, veteran QB, maybe at the end of the 2nd. Call it the Kolb scenario. The Colts and Pats come to mind as teams that could do that. He needs to learn behind an experienced pro, IMO.

I completely understand what you're saying and I think that's the concensus on Locker. I just think about the poor value he presents if he needs a few years to be ready. That's if coaches can even correct his accuracy.

Originally posted by strickac:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by strickac:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by strickac:
With Locker, everyone knows he has his flaws and regardless of how his Pro Day goes, I think his accuracy is going to scare teams off.

I'd imagine that teams would even be hesitant to spend a 2nd on him. Don't be surprised if he falls worse than Claussen. He might even make it to the 3rd.

After the draft I'd like to hear how Harbaugh rated him. I'm guessing he had him as a 4th-5th round prospect. I think the tram views Cam as a late 1st, early 2nd.

Locker will go at least by the second easily. Clausen had numerous character/attitude issues and possessed nowhere near the athleticism. While Jake does have issues and I am certainly not a fan of his, it can't be denied he often carried his team on his back, was a leader, and gives a team a lot to work with as far as physical tools.

I understand all of that, BUT he inaccurate and not anywhere close to starting, IMO atleast.

I think he'll fall hard, while Mallett gets drafted early. When it comes down to it, either a guy can put the ball where it needs to go or he can. Accuracy is king (atleast it should be) and Jake isn't that guy.

Strick, it's not like coaches just look at a guy and say, "Well golly his stats say he's inaccurate. Welp, let's pack it up, that's it." They want to know why and try to determine if they can fix it.

If Locker had serious personal issues, or things that a coach couldn't correct mechanically, he'd fall. Locker has unpolished mechanics, which are extremely coachable. Everything Locker has in terms of "flaws" are things that an NFL coaching staff would love to have the ability to correct and in turn, make Locker an amazing football player.

Clausen is so polar opposite from Locker, comparing them just wouldn't make any sense. People are trying to compare Mallet to him, and that's a bunch of bologna really. He's a fiery guy who ticks people off sometimes, but he's not a locker room cancer. Now, the off-the-field stuff is a big question that seems to be hurting him, but regardless, there's no question he's exceptionally accurate with the ball.

But back to the other topic at hand -- Locker. The athleticism, leadership, very strong arm, and overall tremendous upside are going to get him picked in the top 64. Not trying to say at all that I want him, or even think he'll be good in the NFL, but just as far as projections go, you can rest assured he'll be a top 64 pick. Too many QB needy teams right now for him not be.

I agree that coaches will want to snag him and coach him up, but at what price? He's going to be seen as a project by many/most teams.

My problem with Jake is that I can't see him having any success early in his career because of his accuracy and tendency to tuck the ball and run. My feeling is that you only draft a QB early if you plan on playing him early on or if you have a really strong team and you want to hang on to a guy and groom him behind a quality starter (few teams have that luxury).

I think the best thing for him would be to get drafted by a team with an older, veteran QB, maybe at the end of the 2nd. Call it the Kolb scenario. The Colts and Pats come to mind as teams that could do that. He needs to learn behind an experienced pro, IMO.

I completely understand what you're saying and I think that's the concensus on Locker. I just think about the poor value he presents if he needs a few years to be ready. That's if coaches can even correct his accuracy.

Right, right. Now I mean, if it was me personally trying to put a grade on him as a GM -- Well, all the things mentioned along with the upside would make me give him a late 2nd or 3rd round grade. Locker, although he has issues and would need plenty of time to get ready for the Pro Game, Jake has the measurables and many of the intangibles that kick him up a notch far above all the other average guys out there.

You are spot on with the assessment that a team set at QB looking for a great "future" guy to groom, Locker would be a fine pick for a team like that -- almost like Aaron Rodgers waiting for 3 years under Favre.

Heck, never underestimate what good coaches can do. Tebow is a gleaming example of the type of QB that was told he just had too many issues, yet overcame them under great tutelage. I am actually shocked at how fast he had his game and mechanics refined and is already well on his way to becoming an NFL QB. I love Tebow and felt he could definitely overcome his issues, but I expected a much wider learning curve. I thought he'd need a year and a half, but he looked ready to start by the end of the season.

As much as I'm not a fan of Locker, I wouldn't be too surprised if something similar happened. But with this lockout I doubt it. And for what it's worth, even without it, I think Jake would take a little more time to polish his game than Tebow.