Combine (Feb 24-Mar 2): It's HERE!

double post

[ Edited by jreff22 on Feb 25, 2010 at 14:34:53 ]

Originally posted by Butter:

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by Butter:

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by ninertico:

Originally posted by KezarLivin:
McCloughan Q&A From Rob Rang:

49er's thinking RB early?

In the 2008 draft, everyone, and I mean everyone, slammed the Titans for drafting Chris Johnson when they already had Lendale White AND Chris Henry like we have Gore and Coffee.

...so why not Spiller?

Everybody slammed the Texans for passing on Bush, now Bush is eating up 8M and Williams is a Pro-Bowler.

If we were drafting #2 overall then that analogy would make better sense...but considering were drafting in the teens and have 2 first round picks....we can afford a luxury (who also fills a need)

Using your logic your analogy doesn't make sense either. Johnson was taken #24 and was the 4th back off the board. A more similar situation would be us getting McCluster in the 2nd or trading our 13th and moving back then picking up Best or McCluster.

Jonathan Stewart was drafted #13 overall in that draft to the Panthers. The Panthers were 7-9 and already had DeAngelo Williams and DeShaun Foster. Williams was the Best back in the draft and the Panthers couldn't pass on a game-changer. (Even though they had Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams).

They passed on:
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Mike Jenkins
Joe Flacco,
DeSean Jackson,
Ray Rice, Rashard Mendenhall, Matt Forte, Felix Jones, and of course Chris Johnson.

Notice how many other premier backs or "game-changers" are on the list they passed on. If there's nobody else there worth taking and we can't trade back then we should take him. We are going to draft him to be a change of pace/KR, we can get somebody to fit that role with the same effectiveness later on. We'd still need to pick up a PR too.

I like Spiller a lot I am just weary of taking backs that early, especially when there's so much other talent in this draft, especially with the success of backs like Rice and Johnson.

Just a cool coincidence, guess who the Panthers took with their other 1st round pick (#19) in that draft. Jeff Otah - RT. He stepped in and started from day 1; sured up their line and helped them to a playoff berth.

Ok your losing me...I dont care how many backs are off the board, the initial point was in the teens were not reaching at RB, who is graded VERY high.

Then you say The Panthers were 7-9 and already had DeAngelo Williams and DeShaun Foster. They ended up parting ways with Foster so obviously Foster wasn't in the long term plans and they were looking to get younger. Then you point to a list of guys they passed on....at that point nobody knew how any of those guys would of developed into great NFL players. Its easy to do now but at that time that argument couldn't of been made...all speculation!

My point being drafting a RB with your only pick in the first and that specific pick being #2 overall there is a lot more risk involved. When we have 2 first round picks we can afford to roll the dice on a risk. In this case it would be Spiller who adds "the change of pace" that the front office has been talking about wanting. Also it gives us a better insurance policy for when Gore has his usual injuries that keeps him out for a few weeks. Lastly it gives us an excellent weapon as a true return guy. Granted this is all speculation as well but most agree that Spiller is a BAMF and having him would be a major asset and his contributions could start day 1. This pretty much means we "could" land the most premiere O skill player 2 years in a row....not to bad!!! I love Dex but Spiller is in a much different class.

You can also look to and blame Johnson for Spiller going this (projected) high. Because he has "broken the mold" for smaller RB's in the league there is now a higher demand for that type of guy.

That's my point. It's all speculation so what makes you so positive that Spiller will be a better game-changer than McC or Best? My point is that people thought Jonathan Stewart was a "can't miss back" and that Carolina would be stupid to pass up on the second best play-maker in the draft. By the way the best playmaking back was McFadden, who hasn't exactly lit it up since becoming a Raider. Stewart is maybe the 3rd or 4th best back out of that draft, McFadden is even worse. If there's 3-4 good backs that will be available in the 2nd, why take a back when you can get a Corner/Linebacker/Pass-Rusher (positions where talent is much harder to come by)

How did that analogy lose you? They were 7-9, we are 8-8. They finished second in their division and had been hoping to win the division that year. Sound familiar? They had an explosive receiver in Steve Smith and a good back in DeAngelo Williams. We Have an explosive receiver in Vernon Davis, and a good back in Frank Gore. We also have a playmaker in Crabtree. They had the #13 and #19 picks, we have the #13 and #17 picks. They had a huge hole to fill at RT with questions of consistency at QB. They had a young defense that just needed an offense to score points for it. I think that's very similar to the situation the 49ers are in this year.

The Panthers took a "luxury" at #13 instead of Rodgers-Cromartie or Mike Jenkins (both Pro-Bowl corners). Now they need a #1 corner and have two running backs, in a league that is shifting more and more into a passing league.

I don't want us to fall in love with a guy because he had great runs in college; especially if it means passing up on somebody who could be a Pro-Bowler in 2-3 years.
Don't get me wrong, if Spiller is far and away the BPA at #13 and nobody is really even close to having his potential then I have no problems with Scotty pulling the trigger.

That's why I'm so stoked for the combine, it's really the only chance for the general public to form an opinion on all these players unless they're able to watch every single game somehow.

Probably would have helped a lot if the McFadden had a solid oline in front of him...oh wait

49ers had the worst O-line in the league last year, his O-line was better then whatever Gore was working with.

Exactly, that's why the 9ers need to draft oline instead of a RB.

We can do both

I'm staying away from T. Williams for this simple reason. He has Parker as his agent and he comes up today and says he's a LT when he will be drafted to play RT if the 49ers draft him. So guess who is going to hold out for "LT type money" even though he's would be playing RT. Danger Will Robinson, DANGER!!

Originally posted by domesik:
I'm staying away from T. Williams for this simple reason. He has Parker as his agent and he comes up today and says he's a LT when he will be drafted to play RT if the 49ers draft him. So guess who is going to hold out for "LT type money" even though he's would be playing RT. Danger Will Robinson, DANGER!!

What did you want him to say that he can't play left tackle? That would be a huge mistake. It's all posturing.

He also said that he'd be the one deciding whether or not he'd be in camp on time, not his agent.

Eugene Parker also got the s**t end of the stick in the Crabtree deal, so I doubt he'd try and pull the same thing, especially with an OT who has been rated from 3-6th best at his position. Parker's argument with Crabtree was based on he was the consensus Top WR and wanted to be paid like it. That is not the case here.

Bottom line is you don't value a player less or pass up on a player based on their agent. That would be the worst draft strategy ever.

Originally posted by domesik:
I'm staying away from T. Williams for this simple reason. He has Parker as his agent and he comes up today and says he's a LT when he will be drafted to play RT if the 49ers draft him. So guess who is going to hold out for "LT type money" even though he's would be playing RT. Danger Will Robinson, DANGER!!

Players drafted outside the top 10 rarely have contract problems unless its a QB who slides far. I wouldnt worry one bit about his agent

When does the coin flip happen?

My moles about town tell of a terrific sight: Tom Cable and Mike Shanahan sitting at opposites sides of the bar ... at Hooters.

-maiocco

lol

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by ninertico:

Originally posted by KezarLivin:
McCloughan Q&A From Rob Rang:

49er's thinking RB early?

In the 2008 draft, everyone, and I mean everyone, slammed the Titans for drafting Chris Johnson when they already had Lendale White AND Chris Henry like we have Gore and Coffee.

...so why not Spiller?

Everybody slammed the Texans for passing on Bush, now Bush is eating up 8M and Williams is a Pro-Bowler.

If we were drafting #2 overall then that analogy would make better sense...but considering were drafting in the teens and have 2 first round picks....we can afford a luxury (who also fills a need)

Using your logic your analogy doesn't make sense either. Johnson was taken #24 and was the 4th back off the board. A more similar situation would be us getting McCluster in the 2nd or trading our 13th and moving back then picking up Best or McCluster.

Jonathan Stewart was drafted #13 overall in that draft to the Panthers. The Panthers were 7-9 and already had DeAngelo Williams and DeShaun Foster. Williams was the Best back in the draft and the Panthers couldn't pass on a game-changer. (Even though they had Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams).

They passed on:
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Mike Jenkins
Joe Flacco,
DeSean Jackson,
Ray Rice, Rashard Mendenhall, Matt Forte, Felix Jones, and of course Chris Johnson.

Notice how many other premier backs or "game-changers" are on the list they passed on. If there's nobody else there worth taking and we can't trade back then we should take him. We are going to draft him to be a change of pace/KR, we can get somebody to fit that role with the same effectiveness later on. We'd still need to pick up a PR too.

I like Spiller a lot I am just weary of taking backs that early, especially when there's so much other talent in this draft, especially with the success of backs like Rice and Johnson.

Just a cool coincidence, guess who the Panthers took with their other 1st round pick (#19) in that draft. Jeff Otah - RT. He stepped in and started from day 1; sured up their line and helped them to a playoff berth.

Ok your losing me...I dont care how many backs are off the board, the initial point was in the teens were not reaching at RB, who is graded VERY high.

Then you say The Panthers were 7-9 and already had DeAngelo Williams and DeShaun Foster. They ended up parting ways with Foster so obviously Foster wasn't in the long term plans and they were looking to get younger. Then you point to a list of guys they passed on....at that point nobody knew how any of those guys would of developed into great NFL players. Its easy to do now but at that time that argument couldn't of been made...all speculation!

My point being drafting a RB with your only pick in the first and that specific pick being #2 overall there is a lot more risk involved. When we have 2 first round picks we can afford to roll the dice on a risk. In this case it would be Spiller who adds "the change of pace" that the front office has been talking about wanting. Also it gives us a better insurance policy for when Gore has his usual injuries that keeps him out for a few weeks. Lastly it gives us an excellent weapon as a true return guy. Granted this is all speculation as well but most agree that Spiller is a BAMF and having him would be a major asset and his contributions could start day 1. This pretty much means we "could" land the most premiere O skill player 2 years in a row....not to bad!!! I love Dex but Spiller is in a much different class.

You can also look to and blame Johnson for Spiller going this (projected) high. Because he has "broken the mold" for smaller RB's in the league there is now a higher demand for that type of guy.

That's my point. It's all speculation so what makes you so positive that Spiller will be a better game-changer than McC or Best? My point is that people thought Jonathan Stewart was a "can't miss back" and that Carolina would be stupid to pass up on the second best play-maker in the draft. By the way the best playmaking back was McFadden, who hasn't exactly lit it up since becoming a Raider. Stewart is maybe the 3rd or 4th best back out of that draft, McFadden is even worse. If there's 3-4 good backs that will be available in the 2nd, why take a back when you can get a Corner/Linebacker/Pass-Rusher (positions where talent is much harder to come by)

How did that analogy lose you? They were 7-9, we are 8-8. They finished second in their division and had been hoping to win the division that year. Sound familiar? They had an explosive receiver in Steve Smith and a good back in DeAngelo Williams. We Have an explosive receiver in Vernon Davis, and a good back in Frank Gore. We also have a playmaker in Crabtree. They had the #13 and #19 picks, we have the #13 and #17 picks. They had a huge hole to fill at RT with questions of consistency at QB. They had a young defense that just needed an offense to score points for it. I think that's very similar to the situation the 49ers are in this year.

The Panthers took a "luxury" at #13 instead of Rodgers-Cromartie or Mike Jenkins (both Pro-Bowl corners). Now they need a #1 corner and have two running backs, in a league that is shifting more and more into a passing league.

I don't want us to fall in love with a guy because he had great runs in college; especially if it means passing up on somebody who could be a Pro-Bowler in 2-3 years.
Don't get me wrong, if Spiller is far and away the BPA at #13 and nobody is really even close to having his potential then I have no problems with Scotty pulling the trigger.

That's why I'm so stoked for the combine, it's really the only chance for the general public to form an opinion on all these players unless they're able to watch every single game somehow.

Overall I feel Spiller has more upside then Best or Dex. I don't see Dex as a real RB (who could handle the load if Gore went down) and Best although very good doesn't have the return abilities of Spiller. Regarding Corner/Linebacker/Pass-Rusher....I'm assuming Haden, McClain, and Graham. I think all will be gone by 13. I see McClain in Denver, Graham in Miami, and Haden somewhere in the top 10. Going back to Best I don't see him making in out of the top 10 in round 2 (Browns). Dex will be there in the 2nd but his value isn't that high and he could seriously be gone by the time we pick in the 3rd. If Spiller is there at 13 we have landed the best RB and are obviously assured we could draft him.

How did that analogy lose you? They were 7-9, we are 8-8.
The situations are still different. You listed guys who were available and were "needs" The Panthers took a "luxury" at #13 instead of Rodgers-Cromartie or Mike Jenkins (both Pro-Bowl corners). Now they need a #1 corner and have two running backs, in a league that is shifting more and more into a passing league. Those types of guys aren't available in this years draft. The first round CB and FS class is weak once it gets to be our turn. I doubt we go after a DT or DE and I expect the best OLB to be gone. Spiller at that spot should be BPA who is also a need. If you look at best players at their positions that we could go after...

DT) Suh and McCoy-will be gone
ILB) McClain-will be gone
CB) Haden- will be gone
FS) Berry-will be gone
WR) Bryant-will be gone
SS)nothing in the first
OLB) Graham-I think will be gone, not sold on Kindle
DE) Dunlap-could be gone, Oderick I love but doubt we go after

Aside from those guy's who would we be passing on that would be in the same argument? Yes I know OT but I think we wait till 17 for that.

Re-read my post. I am assuming somebody will drop but if Spiller is BPA I have no problems. [/i]

I came in to check a Combine thread and find....another CJ Spiller thread.

Let's see if we can have an all Spiller first page.

btw can I just add how annoyed I am to keep hearing McGloughan keep talking about how size is so f*cking important.

Time and time again smaller guys play much better than the bigger guys and it pains me when we ignore these guys simply because they don't match the prototypical size/weight.

In case you don't have the NFL Network on TV or don't have access to it, they will be broadcasting all Combine stuff starting today on NFL.com:

http://www.nfl.com/combine/live/landing

[ Edited by RedWaltz24 on Feb 27, 2010 at 08:10:39 ]

RB's height and weight

CJ Spiller 5105 196 lbs
Joe McKnight 5113 198 lbs
Matthews 5115 218 lbs.
Dwyer 5112 229 lbs
Toby Gerhart 6000 231 lbs
Blount 6004 241 lbs
Jahvid Best 5101 199 lbs.

Link

Too small? CJ Spiller weighed 196 lbs this morning. The Titans' Chris Johnson weighed 197 when drafted 2 years ago. I still believe, CJ!

from barrows

I think Blount is our guy. He can probably be had for a 4th round pick. He big, athletic and has pretty good speed.

Originally posted by teeohh:
Too small? CJ Spiller weighed 196 lbs this morning. The Titans' Chris Johnson weighed 197 when drafted 2 years ago. I still believe, CJ!

from barrows

Once he grows and matures a lil bit more he should be around 200-205lbs