49ers 2024 Salary Cap Thread, Cap Room=$6,197,214 as of 4/13/24

Originally posted by AB81Rules:
I'm all for drafting a CB high, if we do end up with say a top 10 pick in the 2nd, I'd trade up into round 1, if a CB falls, pick him, right now we're set to have 8 picks, Our 2nd, Our 3rd, Our 4th, Our 5th, DEN's 6th, and 3 Comp 7th's(for losing Solomon Thomas, Kerry Hyder Jr., & C.J. Beathard according to OverTheCap.com). We could deal our 2nd & 4th to get into rd 1, still have our 3rd, 5th, DENs 6th, & 3 7th's.

I would love a ballhawk Safety, but due to the restructure or Ward's contract, we're stuck with him in 2022, the savings is only $3,075,588, well $2,370,588 with the top 51 factored in.

Serious question here AB. I don't claim to know crap about the cap.
How are the Rams able to eat the Goff and Gurley contracts, have Donald under contract, and constantly
grab dudes when they are available? People always say they are going to eventually have to pay the piper.
And the cap will catch up to them. But that never seems to happen. Do they just draft 10 x better than us?

We couldn't sign Buckner? Is our cap guy any better than any other cap guy in the league?

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
They need to draft a couple of corners to have a better chance of hitting on one. If they both turn out to be good, so much the better. They can also use a safety that's a true ballhawk.

I'm all for drafting a CB high, if we do end up with say a top 10 pick in the 2nd, I'd trade up into round 1, if a CB falls, pick him, right now we're set to have 8 picks, Our 2nd, Our 3rd, Our 4th, Our 5th, DEN's 6th, and 3 Comp 7th's(for losing Solomon Thomas, Kerry Hyder Jr., & C.J. Beathard according to OverTheCap.com). We could deal our 2nd & 4th to get into rd 1, still have our 3rd, 5th, DENs 6th, & 3 7th's.

I would love a ballhawk Safety, but due to the restructure or Ward's contract, we're stuck with him in 2022, the savings is only $3,075,588, well $2,370,588 with the top 51 factored in.

If we draft a CB high, what do we do with the two CB's we drafted last year? A 3rd round pick is valuable, no?

Originally posted by bjghum:
Serious question here AB. I don't claim to know crap about the cap.
How are the Rams able to eat the Goff and Gurley contracts, have Donald under contract, and constantly
grab dudes when they are available? People always say they are going to eventually have to pay the piper.
And the cap will catch up to them. But that never seems to happen. Do they just draft 10 x better than us?

We couldn't sign Buckner? Is our cap guy any better than any other cap guy in the league?

Technically the Rams were over the 2021 cap when March began, they only re-signed one player, Leonard Floyd, they lose 3, Samson Ebukam, John Johnson, & Troy Hill, 3 of there better defenders.

As for something like Von or OBJ, the Broncos are eating $9M of Von's salary, so the Rams only had to pay $700K to him, but had to give up a 2nd & 3rd, otherwise had Denver not eaten the salary, they likely wouldn't have had to give up 2 day 2 picks. OBJ wise, they're likely paying him the minimum, as he's getting $4.25M from Cleveland as part of the restructure.

The reason we couldn't/didn't sign Buckner was the need for cap room for Kittle, Warner, plus to ability to retain others in the future, this is also the reason why they traded up for Trey, they can't afford to have a QB counting $28M+ a yr against the cap, this way they can re-sign Bosa, Deebo, & Dre. People seem to forget that they were able to give Kittle $15M a yr, Warner $19.05M a yr, & Trent $23.03M a yr, it's not like they didn't make moves, and now Bosa will cost $30M a yr, I have Deebo in the $15M a yr range, and Dre $10M a yr, all well worth it.

Also, a big reason why teams like KC, LAR, TB are able to retain or add guys is either, in KC's case, they had Mahomes, & Kelce already under contract the following year, they just lowered their base salaries to create a signing bonus, for Chris Jones, he was tagged, so the new deal lowered his tag number he would have gotten.

For TB, they were able to bring back all 22 starters because they basically signed them to 5yr contracts, but in reality they're 1yr deals that void after 2021, this isn't something I'd do if I were the 49ers, it's risky.

As for the Rams, like I said, they were over the cap, so they had to restructure guys, then lost 3 guys, only re-signed 1 UFA Leonard Floyd, and like I said for Von & OBJ, DEN ate $9M of Von's deal, and OBJ is likely minimum, as CLE is paying him $4.25M.

Originally posted by glorydayz:
If we draft a CB high, what do we do with the two CB's we drafted last year? A 3rd round pick is valuable, no?

You need depth, people are complaining about our CB depth, and rightfully so, Lenoir could move to the Slot, Ambry & a high rd CB on the outside long term.

As I said, look at what LA did this offseason, they restructured both Aaron Donald, & Jalen Ramsey's deals. Hell look at what NO had to do, they were $100M over the cap, the Drew Brees dead money is a huge reason why I'm against doing voidable years, cause Brees counts $11.15M in dead money.

I know people say I'm making excuses, but I'm not, you don't understand the business side, how the cap works, you can manipulate it to a certain extent before it does catch up to you, like I said NO was $100M over, PHI was $50M over, for 2022 NO is already projected to be $66.305M over the cap, GB $46.333M over the cap, Bucs are projected to have a bit under $19.1M, KC is projected to have around $12M, the Rams are also over the cap, but under $100K, they're gonna have a hard time in 2022, they'll have to redo Donald, Ramsey, Kupp, Woods, Higbee, Floyd and others if they want to retain anyone. Look at Floyd's deal, 2021 $5.5M cap number, 2022 $20M.

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

As I said, look at what LA did this offseason, they restructured both Aaron Donald, & Jalen Ramsey's deals. Hell look at what NO had to do, they were $100M over the cap, the Drew Brees dead money is a huge reason why I'm against doing voidable years, cause Brees counts $11.15M in dead money.

I know people say I'm making excuses, but I'm not, you don't understand the business side, how the cap works, you can manipulate it to a certain extent before it does catch up to you, like I said NO was $100M over, PHI was $50M over, for 2022 NO is already projected to be $66.305M over the cap, GB $46.333M over the cap, Bucs are projected to have a bit under $19.1M, KC is projected to have around $12M, the Rams are also over the cap, but under $100K, they're gonna have a hard time in 2022, they'll have to redo Donald, Ramsey, Kupp, Woods, Higbee, Floyd and others if they want to retain anyone. Look at Floyd's deal, 2021 $5.5M cap number, 2022 $20M.

I think the argument is that we went ultra money-ball when we might've had a little more room / a better decision to make without going extreme like these other teams. Financially, we're usually prudent. But the team teeters on the extreme in the other direction it seems sometimes, maybe as a result of the horrible cap issues they had a while back.

.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by AB81Rules:
As I said, look at what LA did this offseason, they restructured both Aaron Donald, & Jalen Ramsey's deals. Hell look at what NO had to do, they were $100M over the cap, the Drew Brees dead money is a huge reason why I'm against doing voidable years, cause Brees counts $11.15M in dead money.

I know people say I'm making excuses, but I'm not, you don't understand the business side, how the cap works, you can manipulate it to a certain extent before it does catch up to you, like I said NO was $100M over, PHI was $50M over, for 2022 NO is already projected to be $66.305M over the cap, GB $46.333M over the cap, Bucs are projected to have a bit under $19.1M, KC is projected to have around $12M, the Rams are also over the cap, but under $100K, they're gonna have a hard time in 2022, they'll have to redo Donald, Ramsey, Kupp, Woods, Higbee, Floyd and others if they want to retain anyone. Look at Floyd's deal, 2021 $5.5M cap number, 2022 $20M.

I think the argument is that we went ultra money-ball when we might've had a little more room / a better decision to make without going extreme like these other teams. Financially, we're usually prudent. But the team teeters on the extreme in the other direction it seems sometimes, maybe as a result of the horrible cap issues they had a while back.

They're up against the cap because of wasted cap money they continue to pump into oft-injured players.

Restructuring a player like Aaron Donald is a smart move because you can 100% count on him.

Acquiring, retaining and extending injury ward players like Verrett, Ward, Ford, Tartt, etc. and the countless others they spent high capital on (high draft picks, traded picks and cap $) and have received next to nothing in quality play or snaps is large.

Nobody is willing to look in to that objectively. Nobody is willing to look in to how much every transaction costs vs. snap counts. ROI.

We're up against the cap annually because they continue to make poor moves (McGlinchey's 5th year option) and then use that as an excuse not to make competitive moves like their competition.

It's the backbone of their player acquisition philosophy.

.

Originally posted by NCommand:
They're up against the cap because of wasted cap money they continue to pump into oft-injured players.

Restructuring a player like Aaron Donald is a smart move because you can 100% count on him.

Acquiring, retaining and extending injury ward players like Verrett, Ward, Ford, Tartt, etc. and the countless others they spent high capital on (high draft picks, traded picks and cap $) and have received next to nothing in quality play or snaps is large.

Nobody is willing to look in to that objectively. Nobody is willing to look in to how much every transaction costs vs. snap counts. ROI.

We're up against the cap annually because they continue to make poor moves (McGlinchey's 5th year option) and then use that as an excuse not to make competitive moves like their competition.

It's the backbone of their player acquisition philosophy.

Let's start with the restructuring part, the Rams were close to $25M over the cap back when the new league year began, they had to let 3 good defenders leave, Samson Ebukam, John Johnson, & Troy Hill, the only way they were able to afford OBJ & Von were because CLE ate $4.25M for OBJ & DEN ate $9M for Von, plus OBJ is likely $1M-$1.5M at most.

You're acting like the Rams are some savvy team, they HAD to redo Ramsey, Donald, & others to just get under the cap, let's look at other teams, NO, PHI, KC, they were all over the 2021 cap.

Restructuring deals will only push money down the road, which is something no franchise should do, as it could very likely backfire, if the Rams don't win it all, this will look like a complete failure.

The reason they got under, was, redoing so many deals, that's how KC got Thuney, that's how LAR kept Floyd, but also because they did what the 49ers did, low year 1 cap numbers, Floyd $5.5M in 2021, $20M in 2022, Thuney $4.5M in 2021, $17.8M in 2022.

Let's look at what 2022 looks like right now cap wise for some teams, according to OTC, they're currently using carryover, so I did some calculations of my own to show where they are without carryover, as that's subject to change, plus OTC, per the owner, doesn't change it week to week.

Dolphins - $69,194,211
Jaguars - $63,368,561
Broncos - $60,276,180
Chargers - $51,273,175
Bengals - $43,322,223
Colts - $42,935,084
Jets - $42,749,533
Washington - $41,782,297
Raiders - $34,698,243
Seahawks - $32,072,965
Bears - $28,804,382
Steelers - $28,663,829
Lions - $24,578,543
Patriots - $19,312,711
Buccaneers - $17,451,535
Ravens - $17,038,535
Texans - $16,632,503
Panthers - $15,911,157
Browns - $15,426,972
Chiefs - $11,336,544
Cardinals - $10,404,452
Titans - $8,372,364
Bills - $2,270,292
Eagles - $1,695,955
Falcons - ($2,301,397)
Rams - ($2,894,362)
49ers - ($4,223,322)
Giants - ($5,033,643)
Vikings - ($13,668,598)
Cowboys - ($22,373,722)
Packers - ($56,492,656)
Saints - ($65,444,887)

Each team has a good amount of FAs to re-sign or let go of.

Rams:

EDGE Von Miller
WR Odell Beckham Jr.
LT Joseph Noteboom
C Brian Allen
RG Austin Corbett
CB Darious Williams

Chiefs:

S Tyrann Mathieu
DT Jarran Reed
EDGE Melvin Ingram
CB Charvarius Ward
RT Mike Remmers
CB Mike Hughes
S Daniel Sorensen
WR Byron Pringle
RB Darrel Williams
WR Demarcus Robinson
EDGE Alex Okaford
DT Derrick Nnadi
LT Orlando Brown

Bucs:

WR Chris Godwin
EDGE Jason Pierre-Paul
C Ryan Jensen
DT Ndamukong Suh
TE Rob Gronkowski
DT William Gholston
RB Leomnard Fournette
WR Antonio Brown
TE O.J. Howard
RB Ronald Jones II
CB Richard Sherman
RG Alex Cappa

Packers:

WR Davante Adams
CB Kevin King
TE Robert Tonyan
CB Chandon Sullivan
LB De'Vondre Campbell
LG Lucas Patrick
CB Rasul Douglas

Cardinals:

EDGE Chandler Jones
TE Zach Ertz
WR A.J. Green
TE Maxx Williams
RB James Conner
WR Christian Kirk
LG Max Garcia

Now current cap room as of today from OTC.

Jaguars - $27,520,435
Eagles - $21,215,783
Broncos - $14,735,169
Seahawks - $13,254,171
Washington - $10,949,862
Chargers - $10,308,789
Steelers - $10,163,841
Bengals - $8,863,846
Browns - $7,608,072
Texans - $5,268,056
Panthers - $5,048,635
Packers - $4,615,534
Patriots - $4,585,059
Jets - $4,328,237
Cowboys - $4,304,497
Vikings - $4,033,770
Giants - $3,804,880
Titans - $3,588,693
Bears - $3,464,216
Buccaneers - $3,309,895
Chiefs - $3,283,041
49ers - $3,253,428
Bills - $3,199,448
Raiders - $2,966,766
Colts - $2,442,978
Lions - $2,173,545
Falcons - $1,775,975
Rams - $1,602,788
Saints - $983,285
Ravens - $711,047
Dolphins - $615,584
Cardinals - ($79,820)

As you can see, the reason why, as I've been saying, that almost every team is up against the cap is due to the GOD DAMN PANDEMIC, cap went down $15.7M, factor in the fact that if it had went to $215M, that would have been an $16.8M jump, so in a sense, all 32 teams lost $32.5M in cap room.

Let's talk the whole salary cap issues with the 49ers, it's NOT because of signing oft-injured players, it's because, and I wish people would see this, it's thanks to god damn pandemic, the cap in 2020 was $198.2M, it went down $15.7M to $182.5M, it should have been $215M this year, then $225M-$230M in 2022, now it's likely to be $208.2M, this all due to the pandemic, not because of wasting money on injured players.

You applauded the 49ers in the offseason when they were able to retain Trent Williams, Juice, Verrett(You liked him), Jones, K'Waun, get Mack, you may not have liked Ebukam, I can't remember, and extended Warner, then you were happy when we drafted an IOL in rd 2, and 2 CBs, you also liked the Trey Lance pick.

Most of, if not all of the fanbase were pumped for this season, were all behind John & Kyle, except those who have hated them since day 1 for no reason.

Also we never extended any of those players you listed except Ward, who has played very well, and had a bad break with the quad injury.

With Ford, we HAD to redo him in 2020 & 2021 just to be able to sign our players back, remember when everyone was on eggshells not sure if Trent would re-sign, but he did, then Mack signed, and everyone is pumped, that doesn't happen if Ford, & Richburg don't redo their deals, as for Richburg, he had 1 bad year due to injuries in NY, he played all of 2018, 2019 was a bad break, you can't tell me that he could have prevented his knee getting bent the way it did by 300lb defenders, and be ok.

As for Tartt, he signed for the league minimum for christ sake.

Verrett, you were happy with, got a low 1yr deal worth $3.5M, the team is gonna get credited back over $700K from his per game roster bonus.

Now, I'm not acting like Kyle & John are perfect, or that they're Bill Walsh, cause no one is Bill Walsh, but even Walsh had the occasional bad signings, and picks.

As for your "all in" thing with the 49ers, when they did that, either the cap wasn't a thing, or they were doing under the table deals that eventually got them in trouble, and why Eddie had to sell the team, thus we were in cap hell, WHY? Because we had to keep redoing deals, now Paraag has gotten us out of cap hell.

The whole going all in, and mortgaging the future on a Von Miller, who's 30+, injury prone, or a Stephon Gilmore, 30+ injury prone who wants $15M a yr, or OBJ, or like with Julio in the offseason would have required redoing a ton of deals, losing cap room in 2022, which would have been a monumental mistake.

The teams who like to spend spend spend in the offseason, end up winning nothing but the offseason, ask the Jags, Giants, Jets, Eagles, and countless other teams how that ended up, making splashy moves to help improve the team, only for it not too.

McGlinchey wise, at the time, I was ok with it, I thought he'd have a bounce back year, I was wrong, in retrospect, they never should have done it.

Believe whatever you want, but this regime, isn't anywhere near as bad as previous, or other teams regimes are, as for the draft, the team has gotten quality players to build with, Kittle, Warner, Bosa 3yrs in a row, All-Pro's, add in Deebo, DJ Jones, Dre Greenlaw, Mitch Wishnowsky(One of the best Punter's in the NFL), Brandon Aiyuk, Charlie Woerner, Jauan Jennings.

Yes they had their blunders, Solomon Thomas was a bad pick, but he was projected to go as high as #2 in 2017, Foster was the right pick at the time, he ended up being a dumbass off the field, we shouldn't have taken him, except we were lied to by Nick Saban. Witherspoon, Beathard, Williams were all bad picks, I don't call Trent Taylor bad, as he played well his first 2 yrs here, Pita & Colbert were 7th rd picks, the round you take a chance on a guy you may not be able to sign as a UDFA.

2018, I'm standing by McGlinchey as the right pick at the time, Trent Brown didn't fit the scheme, he kept coming in overweight, he wasn't agile enough, or mobile enough to be here long term, and he's played only like 17 games since then, also injury prone. Pettis, I loved, but bad pick, Moore looked good till this yrs achilles injury, I still think he can come back next year, and be the future at FS. The jury is out on Street, he's been ok this year, in retrospect, we got a 1st rd talent in rd 4, but, he's finally seeing the field. As for guys like DJ Reed, big mistake waiving him last year, but we tried to get him to NFI, then there's Marcell Harris, who's not a bad player at all, especially for the 6th rd. James was ok, when he got chances.

2019, Hurd, complete bad pick, no doubt about it, he had a great game vs Dallas in the 2019 preseason, 2 TDs, but got hurt, you have to give credit to the 49ers for sticking behind him, he didn't hurt the cap, they tried to get him healthy, but it never happened. Kaden Smith was a great pick, until we were forced to cut him to sign Jeff Wilson off the PS after Coleman went down, if in 2019, we had the 2020 IR rules, we may have never lost Smith. the 6th rd picks like Skule, & Harris, sure Harris was a bad pick, Skule could come back and win the Swing T spot for 2022 if Jaylon Moore ends up at LG, RG, or RT.

2020 wise, it's too early really, but I still think Kinlaw can come back, now I hated, and I mean HATED the Buckner trade, but the fact is, the cap was going down in 2021, they chose Ward, AA, 13th pick(Kinlaw), plus got Aiyuk, who can be a superstar, I believe he & Deebo are the future at WR for us. I like McKivitz, he should have made it over Compton, let's hope he can show he's worth a spot in 2022, as for Woerner & Jennings, both look promising.

2021 wise, again too early, but from what I've seen, Trey looks really good, Sermon as well, Kyle needs to play him more, Lenoir, Hufanga, Moore, & Mitchell all look promising, let's wait to see how Banks & Ambry do once given opportunities, before we act like they're busts.

We've also found some good UDFAs, Mullens, Breida, Wilson, Bourne, Dwelley, Flannigan-Fowles, Moseley, and the kid I like a lot Darrion Daniels.

Lastly, the hit rate to be a successful GM is between 30%-35%, and the FACT is, the draft is a crapshoot, and, most of the draft picks don't make it to year 3 of their rookie deals, let alone a 2nd contract.

But ok, go ahead, and act like every pick has to be an all pro, cause that's what you and others sound like, we need 53 GREAT players, man, I really am debating leaving this place for good, it's toxic, too many trolls, not like it was in 2005 when I joined, and we were BAD.

I don't that that much time lol

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

Originally posted by NCommand:
They're up against the cap because of wasted cap money they continue to pump into oft-injured players.

Restructuring a player like Aaron Donald is a smart move because you can 100% count on him.

Acquiring, retaining and extending injury ward players like Verrett, Ward, Ford, Tartt, etc. and the countless others they spent high capital on (high draft picks, traded picks and cap $) and have received next to nothing in quality play or snaps is large.

Nobody is willing to look in to that objectively. Nobody is willing to look in to how much every transaction costs vs. snap counts. ROI.

We're up against the cap annually because they continue to make poor moves (McGlinchey's 5th year option) and then use that as an excuse not to make competitive moves like their competition.

It's the backbone of their player acquisition philosophy.

Let's start with the restructuring part, the Rams were close to $25M over the cap back when the new league year began, they had to let 3 good defenders leave, Samson Ebukam, John Johnson, & Troy Hill, the only way they were able to afford OBJ & Von were because CLE ate $4.25M for OBJ & DEN ate $9M for Von, plus OBJ is likely $1M-$1.5M at most.

You're acting like the Rams are some savvy team, they HAD to redo Ramsey, Donald, & others to just get under the cap, let's look at other teams, NO, PHI, KC, they were all over the 2021 cap.

Restructuring deals will only push money down the road, which is something no franchise should do, as it could very likely backfire, if the Rams don't win it all, this will look like a complete failure.

The reason they got under, was, redoing so many deals, that's how KC got Thuney, that's how LAR kept Floyd, but also because they did what the 49ers did, low year 1 cap numbers, Floyd $5.5M in 2021, $20M in 2022, Thuney $4.5M in 2021, $17.8M in 2022.

Let's look at what 2022 looks like right now cap wise for some teams, according to OTC, they're currently using carryover, so I did some calculations of my own to show where they are without carryover, as that's subject to change, plus OTC, per the owner, doesn't change it week to week.

Dolphins - $69,194,211
Jaguars - $63,368,561
Broncos - $60,276,180
Chargers - $51,273,175
Bengals - $43,322,223
Colts - $42,935,084
Jets - $42,749,533
Washington - $41,782,297
Raiders - $34,698,243
Seahawks - $32,072,965
Bears - $28,804,382
Steelers - $28,663,829
Lions - $24,578,543
Patriots - $19,312,711
Buccaneers - $17,451,535
Ravens - $17,038,535
Texans - $16,632,503
Panthers - $15,911,157
Browns - $15,426,972
Chiefs - $11,336,544
Cardinals - $10,404,452
Titans - $8,372,364
Bills - $2,270,292
Eagles - $1,695,955
Falcons - ($2,301,397)
Rams - ($2,894,362)
49ers - ($4,223,322)
Giants - ($5,033,643)
Vikings - ($13,668,598)
Cowboys - ($22,373,722)
Packers - ($56,492,656)
Saints - ($65,444,887)

Each team has a good amount of FAs to re-sign or let go of.

Rams:

EDGE Von Miller
WR Odell Beckham Jr.
LT Joseph Noteboom
C Brian Allen
RG Austin Corbett
CB Darious Williams

Chiefs:

S Tyrann Mathieu
DT Jarran Reed
EDGE Melvin Ingram
CB Charvarius Ward
RT Mike Remmers
CB Mike Hughes
S Daniel Sorensen
WR Byron Pringle
RB Darrel Williams
WR Demarcus Robinson
EDGE Alex Okaford
DT Derrick Nnadi
LT Orlando Brown

Bucs:

WR Chris Godwin
EDGE Jason Pierre-Paul
C Ryan Jensen
DT Ndamukong Suh
TE Rob Gronkowski
DT William Gholston
RB Leomnard Fournette
WR Antonio Brown
TE O.J. Howard
RB Ronald Jones II
CB Richard Sherman
RG Alex Cappa

Packers:

WR Davante Adams
CB Kevin King
TE Robert Tonyan
CB Chandon Sullivan
LB De'Vondre Campbell
LG Lucas Patrick
CB Rasul Douglas

Cardinals:

EDGE Chandler Jones
TE Zach Ertz
WR A.J. Green
TE Maxx Williams
RB James Conner
WR Christian Kirk
LG Max Garcia

Now current cap room as of today from OTC.

Jaguars - $27,520,435
Eagles - $21,215,783
Broncos - $14,735,169
Seahawks - $13,254,171
Washington - $10,949,862
Chargers - $10,308,789
Steelers - $10,163,841
Bengals - $8,863,846
Browns - $7,608,072
Texans - $5,268,056
Panthers - $5,048,635
Packers - $4,615,534
Patriots - $4,585,059
Jets - $4,328,237
Cowboys - $4,304,497
Vikings - $4,033,770
Giants - $3,804,880
Titans - $3,588,693
Bears - $3,464,216
Buccaneers - $3,309,895
Chiefs - $3,283,041
49ers - $3,253,428
Bills - $3,199,448
Raiders - $2,966,766
Colts - $2,442,978
Lions - $2,173,545
Falcons - $1,775,975
Rams - $1,602,788
Saints - $983,285
Ravens - $711,047
Dolphins - $615,584
Cardinals - ($79,820)

As you can see, the reason why, as I've been saying, that almost every team is up against the cap is due to the GOD DAMN PANDEMIC, cap went down $15.7M, factor in the fact that if it had went to $215M, that would have been an $16.8M jump, so in a sense, all 32 teams lost $32.5M in cap room.

Let's talk the whole salary cap issues with the 49ers, it's NOT because of signing oft-injured players, it's because, and I wish people would see this, it's thanks to god damn pandemic, the cap in 2020 was $198.2M, it went down $15.7M to $182.5M, it should have been $215M this year, then $225M-$230M in 2022, now it's likely to be $208.2M, this all due to the pandemic, not because of wasting money on injured players.

You applauded the 49ers in the offseason when they were able to retain Trent Williams, Juice, Verrett (You liked him), Jones, K'Waun, get Mack, you may not have liked Ebukam, I can't remember, and extended Warner, then you were happy when we drafted an IOL in rd 2, and 2 CBs, you also liked the Trey Lance pick.

Most of, if not all of the fanbase were pumped for this season, were all behind John & Kyle, except those who have hated them since day 1 for no reason.

Also we never extended any of those players you listed except Ward, who has played very well, and had a bad break with the quad injury.

With Ford, we HAD to redo him in 2020 & 2021 just to be able to sign our players back, remember when everyone was on eggshells not sure if Trent would re-sign, but he did, then Mack signed, and everyone is pumped, that doesn't happen if Ford, & Richburg don't redo their deals, as for Richburg, he had 1 bad year due to injuries in NY, he played all of 2018, 2019 was a bad break, you can't tell me that he could have prevented his knee getting bent the way it did by 300lb defenders, and be ok.

As for Tartt, he signed for the league minimum for christ sake.

Verrett, you were happy with, got a low 1yr deal worth $3.5M, the team is gonna get credited back over $700K from his per game roster bonus.

Now, I'm not acting like Kyle & John are perfect, or that they're Bill Walsh, cause no one is Bill Walsh, but even Walsh had the occasional bad signings, and picks.

As for your "all in" thing with the 49ers, when they did that, either the cap wasn't a thing, or they were doing under the table deals that eventually got them in trouble, and why Eddie had to sell the team, thus we were in cap hell, WHY? Because we had to keep redoing deals, now Paraag has gotten us out of cap hell.

The whole going all in, and mortgaging the future on a Von Miller, who's 30+, injury prone, or a Stephon Gilmore, 30+ injury prone who wants $15M a yr, or OBJ, or like with Julio in the offseason would have required redoing a ton of deals, losing cap room in 2022, which would have been a monumental mistake.

The teams who like to spend spend spend in the offseason, end up winning nothing but the offseason, ask the Jags, Giants, Jets, Eagles, and countless other teams how that ended up, making splashy moves to help improve the team, only for it not too.

McGlinchey wise, at the time, I was ok with it, I thought he'd have a bounce back year, I was wrong, in retrospect, they never should have done it.

Believe whatever you want, but this regime, isn't anywhere near as bad as previous, or other teams regimes are, as for the draft, the team has gotten quality players to build with, Kittle, Warner, Bosa 3yrs in a row, All-Pro's, add in Deebo, DJ Jones, Dre Greenlaw, Mitch Wishnowsky(One of the best Punter's in the NFL), Brandon Aiyuk, Charlie Woerner, Jauan Jennings.

Yes they had their blunders, Solomon Thomas was a bad pick, but he was projected to go as high as #2 in 2017, Foster was the right pick at the time, he ended up being a dumbass off the field, we shouldn't have taken him, except we were lied to by Nick Saban. Witherspoon, Beathard, Williams were all bad picks, I don't call Trent Taylor bad, as he played well his first 2 yrs here, Pita & Colbert were 7th rd picks, the round you take a chance on a guy you may not be able to sign as a UDFA.

2018, I'm standing by McGlinchey as the right pick at the time, Trent Brown didn't fit the scheme, he kept coming in overweight, he wasn't agile enough, or mobile enough to be here long term, and he's played only like 17 games since then, also injury prone. Pettis, I loved, but bad pick, Moore looked good till this yrs achilles injury, I still think he can come back next year, and be the future at FS. The jury is out on Street, he's been ok this year, in retrospect, we got a 1st rd talent in rd 4, but, he's finally seeing the field. As for guys like DJ Reed, big mistake waiving him last year, but we tried to get him to NFI, then there's Marcell Harris, who's not a bad player at all, especially for the 6th rd. James was ok, when he got chances.

2019, Hurd, complete bad pick, no doubt about it, he had a great game vs Dallas in the 2019 preseason, 2 TDs, but got hurt, you have to give credit to the 49ers for sticking behind him, he didn't hurt the cap, they tried to get him healthy, but it never happened. Kaden Smith was a great pick, until we were forced to cut him to sign Jeff Wilson off the PS after Coleman went down, if in 2019, we had the 2020 IR rules, we may have never lost Smith. the 6th rd picks like Skule, & Harris, sure Harris was a bad pick, Skule could come back and win the Swing T spot for 2022 if Jaylon Moore ends up at LG, RG, or RT.

2020 wise, it's too early really, but I still think Kinlaw can come back, now I hated, and I mean HATED the Buckner trade, but the fact is, the cap was going down in 2021, they chose Ward, AA, 13th pick(Kinlaw), plus got Aiyuk, who can be a superstar, I believe he & Deebo are the future at WR for us. I like McKivitz, he should have made it over Compton, let's hope he can show he's worth a spot in 2022, as for Woerner & Jennings, both look promising.

2021 wise, again too early, but from what I've seen, Trey looks really good, Sermon as well, Kyle needs to play him more, Lenoir, Hufanga, Moore, & Mitchell all look promising, let's wait to see how Banks & Ambry do once given opportunities, before we act like they're busts.

We've also found some good UDFAs, Mullens, Breida, Wilson, Bourne, Dwelley, Flannigan-Fowles, Moseley, and the kid I like a lot Darrion Daniels.

Lastly, the hit rate to be a successful GM is between 30%-35%, and the FACT is, the draft is a crapshoot, and, most of the draft picks don't make it to year 3 of their rookie deals, let alone a 2nd contract.

But ok, go ahead, and act like every pick has to be an all pro, cause that's what you and others sound like, we need 53 GREAT players, man, I really am debating leaving this place for good, it's toxic, too many trolls, not like it was in 2005 when I joined, and we were BAD.

Mad respect for putting so much thought into this. TY!

But i also wanted to highlight my original point using yours by simply bolding key players after the bold statement (my original claim that we're up against the cap because we invest in injured players and make poor moves).

See a pattern?

Originally posted by NCommand:
Mad respect for putting so much thought into this. TY!

But i also wanted to highlight my original point using yours by simply bolding key players after the bold statement (my original claim that we're up against the cap because we invest in injured players and make poor moves).

See a pattern?

I get where you're coming from with signing oft-injured players, BUT, that's not the reason we're tight against the cap, like I said, we basically lost $32.5M due to COVID-19.

Also, remember in the offseason people clamoring for Julio Jones, well he just went on IR, and Robert Woods, tore his ACL in practice.

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Mad respect for putting so much thought into this. TY!

But i also wanted to highlight my original point using yours by simply bolding key players after the bold statement (my original claim that we're up against the cap because we invest in injured players and make poor moves).

See a pattern?

I get where you're coming from with signing oft-injured players, BUT, that's not the reason we're tight against the cap, like I said, we basically lost $32.5M due to COVID-19.

Also, remember in the offseason people clamoring for Julio Jones, well he just went on IR, and Robert Woods, tore his ACL in practice.

I know you get that.

But it extends beyond just the acquisitions of injured players but continuing to resign them, count on them and the poor moves like all the Compton-like moves, McGlinchey 5th year option, not going with BPA, overdrafting players, giving up extra draft capital to overdraft, etc. that have stacked up against us to where we are today.

Collectively, this all has a cap cost and it adds up quickly for little to no ROI in the end.

Verrett is a good example. Counting on him to be your #1 CB. How much did that cost just to get him in position to be a starter? How much this year? Now, add on the extra draft capital that Kyle just confirmed was to be depth because of him and for quality snaps 'next year' in Ambry Thomas (3rd round pick and cost). Verrett goes down, it blows up DeMeco Ryans entire off season playbook and now you're stuck signing street FA's who've had no off season in your system like Josh Norman and Dre Kirkpatrick because they drafted a CB who was never going to be ready. How much did all this cost in the end? And I'm not just talking about just cap money.

Add up all these costs and you can get one reliable higher end healthy CB and that's not even counting on all the other stuff you lost out on (i.e. scheme, player development time, locker room positives, fan, etc.).

This is from another thread but even the good signings we make aren't panning out:

TE George Kittle (5th) - 3,253 snaps in 4.5 years (722 annual average) @ a pro bowl level. This is phenomenal original value. Now, he's the highest paid TE but his snap counts have been 748 through the last 24 games or 31 snaps a game on average after his contract. This is poor value. For perspective, Travis Kelce has had 1,610 (67) snaps during that same span and remains at a pro bowl level commensurate his high contract.

IMHO, this is how we should be assessing players and their value.

Originally posted by NCommand:
I know you get that.

But it extends beyond just the acquisitions of injured players but continuing to resign them, count on them and the poor moves like all the Compton-like moves, McGlinchey 5th year option, not going with BPA, overdrafting players, giving up extra draft capital to overdraft, etc. that have stacked up against us to where we are today.

Collectively, this all has a cap cost and it adds up quickly for little to no ROI in the end.

Verrett is a good example. Counting on him to be your #1 CB. How much did that cost just to get him in position to be a starter? How much this year? Now, add on the extra draft capital that Kyle just confirmed was to be depth because of him and for quality snaps 'next year' in Ambry Thomas (3rd round pick and cost). Verrett goes down, it blows up DeMeco Ryans entire off season playbook and now you're stuck signing street FA's who've had no off season in your system like Josh Norman and Dre Kirkpatrick because they drafted a CB who was never going to be ready. How much did all this cost in the end? And I'm not just talking about just cap money.

Add up all these costs and you can get one reliable higher end healthy CB and that's not even counting on all the other stuff you lost out on (i.e. scheme, player development time, locker room positives, fan, etc.).

This is from another thread but even the good signings we make aren't panning out:

TE George Kittle (5th) - 3,253 snaps in 4.5 years (722 annual average) @ a pro bowl level. This is phenomenal original value. Now, he's the highest paid TE but his snap counts have been 748 through the last 24 games or 31 snaps a game on average after his contract. This is poor value. For perspective, Travis Kelce has had 1,610 (67) snaps during that same span and remains at a pro bowl level commensurate his high contract.

IMHO, this is how we should be assessing players and their value.

Verrett was very good in 2020, he stayed healthy, a lot of fans thought he could be a true #1 CB, hell some thought he could get $10M a yr in free agency, I think you had him pegged in that range, I said no way he gets that much.

Should they have signed a CB in free agency? Sure, but, like I've said, they were tight against the cap, not because of signing oft-injured players, but because of the pandemic, I don't get why you & others can't see that.

As for Kittle, yeah he's been injured the last 2 seasons, but he's still playing at an elite level, no one is a Kelce when it comes to playing every down, catching TDs left & right at TE, we all know Kelce is the better pass catching TE.

Let me ask you this, had we dealt for Julio Jones, and he got hurt here, what would you be saying now? Cause if I remember you wanted Julio, also you said you didn't care if we didn't get OBJ, yet, you're now making a big issue over OBJ & Von to LAR.

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I know you get that.

But it extends beyond just the acquisitions of injured players but continuing to resign them, count on them and the poor moves like all the Compton-like moves, McGlinchey 5th year option, not going with BPA, overdrafting players, giving up extra draft capital to overdraft, etc. that have stacked up against us to where we are today.

Collectively, this all has a cap cost and it adds up quickly for little to no ROI in the end.

Verrett is a good example. Counting on him to be your #1 CB. How much did that cost just to get him in position to be a starter? How much this year? Now, add on the extra draft capital that Kyle just confirmed was to be depth because of him and for quality snaps 'next year' in Ambry Thomas (3rd round pick and cost). Verrett goes down, it blows up DeMeco Ryans entire off season playbook and now you're stuck signing street FA's who've had no off season in your system like Josh Norman and Dre Kirkpatrick because they drafted a CB who was never going to be ready. How much did all this cost in the end? And I'm not just talking about just cap money.

Add up all these costs and you can get one reliable higher end healthy CB and that's not even counting on all the other stuff you lost out on (i.e. scheme, player development time, locker room positives, fan, etc.).

This is from another thread but even the good signings we make aren't panning out:

TE George Kittle (5th) - 3,253 snaps in 4.5 years (722 annual average) @ a pro bowl level. This is phenomenal original value. Now, he's the highest paid TE but his snap counts have been 748 through the last 24 games or 31 snaps a game on average after his contract. This is poor value. For perspective, Travis Kelce has had 1,610 (67) snaps during that same span and remains at a pro bowl level commensurate his high contract.

IMHO, this is how we should be assessing players and their value.

Verrett was very good in 2020, he stayed healthy, a lot of fans thought he could be a true #1 CB, hell some thought he could get $10M a yr in free agency, I think you had him pegged in that range, I said no way he gets that much.

Should they have signed a CB in free agency? Sure, but, like I've said, they were tight against the cap, not because of signing oft-injured players, but because of the pandemic, I don't get why you & others can't see that.

As for Kittle, yeah he's been injured the last 2 seasons, but he's still playing at an elite level, no one is a Kelce when it comes to playing every down, catching TDs left & right at TE, we all know Kelce is the better pass catching TE.

Let me ask you this, had we dealt for Julio Jones, and he got hurt here, what would you be saying now? Cause if I remember you wanted Julio, also you said you didn't care if we didn't get OBJ, yet, you're now making a big issue over OBJ & Von to LAR.

You didn't do the exercise:

Verrett is just an example of the value lost on ROI. It's more about their mindset on player acquisition.

And if you added it a together, his contract was:
2019 - $3,000,000 (4 snaps)
2020 - $1,047,500 (802 snaps)
2021 - $5,500,000 (60 snaps)

That's $9.5M paid out to a guy that ended up giving you only 866 snaps. And now he's probably done in the NFL and you can't count on his future which was the very point of letting him eat money while on I.R.

You're only looking at the surface: he had a good 2020.

Now what's the cost of having to draft a raw 3rd rounder in Ambry Thomas because they were counting on Verrett this year to stay healthy instead of a more ready-talented CB? His contract is $4.7M and he hasn't touched the field.

Now that Verrett is done, you've got to pay losers like Norman $1.4M and Kirkpatrick $802K with no off season in your system. So add it all up...just the cap space.

See, you're the Paraag of the WZ. You're only looking at the best value deal and the total cap health. Can-we-can-we-not? And since we're always up against the cap because of moves or non-moves like this, the answer is always, "No, we can't afford it."

Clearly teams are showing you annually that the cap limit is merely a formality to work around when it comes to player acquisitions IF a team really wants a player. Even the pandemic proved to be a mere formality of teams temporarily reshaping to get under. No biggie. Nobody is in cap hell. Nobody's been in cap hell since the 49ers were when the salary cap was first implemented BECAUSE of the 49ers.

While this mindset is an important element as well, I think you need to look much deeper and look also at ROI and how that cost is effecting on-field performance. And use that to make better decisions going forward.

That's why I was showing you another example with Kittle. That's how every acquisition should be viewed. Every one. It's all the moves that have zero to poor ROI "on the field" that cost us in cap space and production on the field. Until you do this exercise, you'll never see the roster for what it really is.

It's their moneyball mindset, to settle, to be complacent, to run-it-back, to not compete with their top competitors, to think they have a top roster, to think that scheme csn overcome all barriers, etc.

Ultimately, to not see the roster for what it really is and has been for 8 straight years: a perpetual oft-injured team where only a handful of players can be counted on in health and production, and as a result, a poor product on the field overall with 5 losing seasons in 6. And the FO continues to RELY on these players.

PS: Your very point about your expectations for Travis Kelce vs. George Kittle IS my point. Your expectations are totally different for the two despite them having near identical cap hits. That IS the problem with your 49ers player evaluations IMHO.

If you want to take on an objective project together, I'll happily take half the roster and apply the formula and then when done, take a look at where we ended up with the best value and where we lost and see how we ended up overall.