Front office restructure

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by JamesGatz83:
Two of the most successful franchises of the past 5 years both have coaches who have control over personnel: Bill Belichick and Pete Carroll. I'm beginning to think this is the best model.

Like Parcells said, "If they want you to cook the dinner, at least they ought to let you shop for the groceries."

Obviously, the hard part is finding a guy who can handle both.

And for every HC that works for, you have several others that wind up as a disaster. Being a good coach doesn't necessarily make you a good personnel guy and those that can handle both responsibilities are quite few and far between.


Successful franchises such as Baltimore, Green Bay, the Giants and Pittsburgh have done just fine splitting up the HC and GM responsibilities.

Nolan had total control...that worked out well...

Originally posted by Sourball:
Seems to me like every time the team starts to sink,rumors leak out saving Balke. Last year it was Harbaugh's fault.This year it's Kaps fault. Never mind the team (despite an abundance of draft picks) being void of NFL talent. As far as I know neither Harbaugh or Kap had much input into the draft. Looks like the rumors swirling about the team not liking Kap and quitting on him,will buy Balke another year .

Not sure this is accurate regarding Kaepernick. His difficulties are fairly easy to watch during games. Coaches have not complained about lack of input for the draft and the war room was attended by coaches, so I would doubt that's an issue. If anything, Baalke sems to have been pretty quite about blame for the picks...particularly after revealing his envelope with Jenkins' name in it...lol!

Whether Baalke was the guy talking to media sources about Harbaugh or whether it was Jed, or Paraag...or John York... Some sources said Baalke was the last guy in the building defending Harbaugh, so you can read what you want into the situation.

There have been some silly oops out of some top level guys--Jed's apology tweet, Baalke's daughter's comment regarding Roman...just not helpful...but by then the writing was on the wall so no harm done...except to the image of the team, which will limit top candidates wanting to work here.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by JamesGatz83:

Two of the most successful franchises of the past 5 years both have coaches who have control over personnel: Bill Belichick and Pete Carroll. I'm beginning to think this is the best model.

Like Parcells said, "If they want you to cook the dinner, at least they ought to let you shop for the groceries."

Obviously, the hard part is finding a guy who can handle both.

And for every HC that works for, you have several others that wind up as a disaster. Being a good coach doesn't necessarily make you a good personnel guy and those that can handle both responsibilities are quite few and far between.


Successful franchises such as Baltimore, Green Bay, the Giants and Pittsburgh have done just fine splitting up the HC and GM responsibilities.

Nolan had total control...that worked out well...

Originally posted by Sourball:

Seems to me like every time the team starts to sink,rumors leak out saving Balke. Last year it was Harbaugh's fault.This year it's Kaps fault. Never mind the team (despite an abundance of draft picks) being void of NFL talent. As far as I know neither Harbaugh or Kap had much input into the draft. Looks like the rumors swirling about the team not liking Kap and quitting on him,will buy Balke another year .

Not sure this is accurate regarding Kaepernick. His difficulties are fairly easy to watch during games. Coaches have not complained about lack of input for the draft and the war room was attended by coaches, so I would doubt that's an issue. If anything, Baalke sems to have been pretty quite about blame for the picks...particularly after revealing his envelope with Jenkins' name in it...lol!

Whether Baalke was the guy talking to media sources about Harbaugh or whether it was Jed, or Paraag...or John York... Some sources said Baalke was the last guy in the building defending Harbaugh, so you can read what you want into the situation.

There have been some silly oops out of some top level guys--Jed's apology tweet, Baalke's daughter's comment regarding Roman...just not helpful...but by then the writing was on the wall so no harm done...except to the image of the team, which will limit top candidates wanting to work here.

You're right, it is fairly easy to see Kap's struggles during games. Do you know what else is fairly easy to see? Ballke's strugles over the seasons: wasted draft picks, entire wasted draft year, can't get along with a succesful coach, can't hire a reputable replacement,2-5, 32nd in Offense, 31st in Defense, last place in the NFC West.

Originally posted by MasterBlaster:
You're right, it is fairly easy to see Kap's struggles during games. Do you know what else is fairly easy to see? Ballke's strugles over the seasons: wasted draft picks, entire wasted draft year, can't get along with a succesful coach, can't hire a reputable replacement,2-5, 32nd in Offense, 31st in Defense, last place in the NFC West.

You are wrong about his abiltiy to provide talent for the team. It's funny that people talk about all the great talent Harbaugh had as if Baalke had nothing to do with it. If you have good replacements for Baalke can you list them and their strengths/weaknesses? It's so easy to criticize...much more difficult to give constructive suggestions.

Originally posted by LVJay:

Originally posted by mayo49:
^
That chick don't look right.

You think the problem in this picture is the woman? LOL!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

You are wrong about his abiltiy to provide talent for the team. It's funny that people talk about all the great talent Harbaugh had as if Baalke had nothing to do with it. If you have good replacements for Baalke can you list them and their strengths/weaknesses? It's so easy to criticize...much more difficult to give constructive suggestions.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by MasterBlaster:

You're right, it is fairly easy to see Kap's struggles during games. Do you know what else is fairly easy to see? Ballke's strugles over the seasons: wasted draft picks, entire wasted draft year, can't get along with a succesful coach, can't hire a reputable replacement,2-5, 32nd in Offense, 31st in Defense, last place in the NFC West.

You are wrong about his abiltiy to provide talent for the team. It's funny that people talk about all the great talent Harbaugh had as if Baalke had nothing to do with it. If you have good replacements for Baalke can you list them and their strengths/weaknesses? It's so easy to criticize...much more difficult to give constructive suggestions.

The difference is that Harbaugh can provide proof of success long before Baalke, with Baalke, and after Baalke. Can Baalke say the same? Until you can explain why everyone else is held responsible for the success or failure of this team except for the one most responsible for this debacle, you're not going to be taken seriously. That's all I ask.

Originally posted by MasterBlaster:
The difference is that Harbaugh can provide proof of success long before Baalke, with Baalke, and after Baalke. Can Baalke say the same? Until you can explain why everyone else is held responsible for the success or failure of this team except for the one most responsible for this debacle, you're not going to be taken seriously. That's all I ask.

Or you could go back to JH's playing career and see an also run kind of guy who was hard headed and didn't get along with coaches. Or you could listen to his brother who said they knew it was time to move when Jim ran out of friends again. Or you could...well, you get the point. These situations are usually not cookie cutter simple. There are seldom people so obviously bad that the entire blame can be dumped at their feet. Guys like Dan Snyder perhaps.

You still have not responded to my simple request for an objective, constructive solution to the problems of the team...other than firing everyone.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by MasterBlaster:

The difference is that Harbaugh can provide proof of success long before Baalke, with Baalke, and after Baalke. Can Baalke say the same? Until you can explain why everyone else is held responsible for the success or failure of this team except for the one most responsible for this debacle, you're not going to be taken seriously. That's all I ask.

Or you could go back to JH's playing career and see an also run kind of guy who was hard headed and didn't get along with coaches. Or you could listen to his brother who said they knew it was time to move when Jim ran out of friends again. Or you could...well, you get the point. These situations are usually not cookie cutter simple. There are seldom people so obviously bad that the entire blame can be dumped at their feet. Guys like Dan Snyder perhaps.

You still have not responded to my simple request for an objective, constructive solution to the problems of the team...other than firing everyone.

Go back and read my posts where I detail all those, just to have 4-5 of the same guys over amd over again do nothing but appologize for Baalke. No point in discussing it further with those same 4-5 people that refuse to accept that the buck stops with the GM. It stopped with the Head Coach last year and this year, just not with the guy that hired them.

Originally posted by thl408:

What does Brent Jones and Randy Cross know about front office-ing? What does Vince McMahon know about being a DC? Who are the other two on the bottom?

They don't. People just cling to the idea of bringing back old players/coaches in the org like it will magically fix all our problems, not understanding that the head front office positions are very difficult and very few people in this country can successfully perform them. Football operations is completely different then most real world business operations. We need someone who has a ton of experience working in a productive, well structured front office. And we need a president who can put Jed in his place when it comes to football decisions. We don't need great players running the show, we need someone who can build the damn roster and get the right coach in place.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by JamesGatz83:
Two of the most successful franchises of the past 5 years both have coaches who have control over personnel: Bill Belichick and Pete Carroll. I'm beginning to think this is the best model.

Like Parcells said, "If they want you to cook the dinner, at least they ought to let you shop for the groceries."

Obviously, the hard part is finding a guy who can handle both.

And for every HC that works for, you have several others that wind up as a disaster. Being a good coach doesn't necessarily make you a good personnel guy and those that can handle both responsibilities are quite few and far between.


Successful franchises such as Baltimore, Green Bay, the Giants and Pittsburgh have done just fine splitting up the HC and GM responsibilities.

Nolan had total control...that worked out well...

Originally posted by Sourball:
Seems to me like every time the team starts to sink,rumors leak out saving Balke. Last year it was Harbaugh's fault.This year it's Kaps fault. Never mind the team (despite an abundance of draft picks) being void of NFL talent. As far as I know neither Harbaugh or Kap had much input into the draft. Looks like the rumors swirling about the team not liking Kap and quitting on him,will buy Balke another year .

Not sure this is accurate regarding Kaepernick. His difficulties are fairly easy to watch during games. Coaches have not complained about lack of input for the draft and the war room was attended by coaches, so I would doubt that's an issue. If anything, Baalke sems to have been pretty quite about blame for the picks...particularly after revealing his envelope with Jenkins' name in it...lol!

Whether Baalke was the guy talking to media sources about Harbaugh or whether it was Jed, or Paraag...or John York... Some sources said Baalke was the last guy in the building defending Harbaugh, so you can read what you want into the situation.

There have been some silly oops out of some top level guys--Jed's apology tweet, Baalke's daughter's comment regarding Roman...just not helpful...but by then the writing was on the wall so no harm done...except to the image of the team, which will limit top candidates wanting to work here.

Like I said, "obviously the hard part is finding a guy who can handle both."

And obviously there's more than one way to skin a cat, but I think it's a better model for continued success.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by MasterBlaster:

You're right, it is fairly easy to see Kap's struggles during games. Do you know what else is fairly easy to see? Ballke's strugles over the seasons: wasted draft picks, entire wasted draft year, can't get along with a succesful coach, can't hire a reputable replacement,2-5, 32nd in Offense, 31st in Defense, last place in the NFC West.

You are wrong about his abiltiy to provide talent for the team. It's funny that people talk about all the great talent Harbaugh had as if Baalke had nothing to do with it. If you have good replacements for Baalke can you list them and their strengths/weaknesses? It's so easy to criticize...much more difficult to give constructive suggestions.

It is pretty easy to judge the result of Baalke's efforts right now.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by vermonator:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by vermonator:
Doesn't matter who you bring in when the owner is the problem.

Denise is the problem?

Denise, John, and Jed are the root of the problem. Let Eddie take over the team and I bet the whole league will want to be part of the 49ers success. GMs, Players and coaches will want to work for Eddie. Who wants to work for Denise, John, or Jed?

Eddie has to get approved to come back to the league as an owner. And the only reason why people wanted to "work for Eddie" was because he treated the team to the "extras" something you can't do in the Salary Cap era anymore. Eddie treated his players like family and the NFL just isn't that kind of place anymore. I don't see Eddie having more success than Kraft or anyone else who hired a really good coach, who then got lucky with a really good QB. The 49ers of the 80's and pre-1994 would not exist past one season under today's salary cap. If it's a question of staff, Harbaugh had one of the largest staffs in the entire NFL. This wasn't a money issue. Again I fail to see how the ownership (Denise) is the problem. It's not that people don't want to come to work for the 49ers, IMHO, the problem with this team is that it drafted a limited QB and have made a back-up a starter. I'm not saying we should not have let Alex go, but QBs in a passing league need to be able to throw on time and read defenses.

I do see the owners as a problem. Look at the teams' record under this ownership. All the coaches they have gone through in the last 10 years. Who else is to blame? They are hiring these people, and firing them a few years later. You can't sustain success that way. Drafting Colin Kaepernick isn't the real problem here. Also, players wanted to play for the 49ers because they were always winning, not just 'extras.'

What have yo done for me latley Baalke?

* Poor handling of off-field Niner player incidents
Too many to name, but the fact Aldon is starting for the Raiders is the last straw

* Free agent departures vs. aquisitions...ugly

* Recent drafts, a couple gems here and there, mostly projects that didnt work out

* The whole Harbaugh, Fangio and all the other good coaches thing

* Tomsula hired as HC, He's clearly over his head, I like the guy, but you dont make the flight attendant the Pilot

* Probably lots of crap were not privy to, pulling a Billy Beane, telling Tomsula who to play

Were screwed as Niner fans for now, until Jed steps down or at least backs off, Baalke is fired
and a proper head coach takes over

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
It is pretty easy to judge the result of Baalke's efforts right now.

So when you judged Baalke when Singletary was the coach he was really bad, then he became good when Harbaugh took over, and now he's really bad again? OK...that makes sense...no variables in there.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

It is pretty easy to judge the result of Baalke's efforts right now.

So when you judged Baalke when Singletary was the coach he was really bad, then he became good when Harbaugh took over, and now he's really bad again? OK...that makes sense...no variables in there.

Harbaugh was good, no doubt, but now look at where the team is.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
It is pretty easy to judge the result of Baalke's efforts right now.

So when you judged Baalke when Singletary was the coach he was really bad, then he became good when Harbaugh took over, and now he's really bad again? OK...that makes sense...no variables in there.

Harbaugh was good, no doubt, but now look at where the team is.

My point is that teams ebb and flow depending on more than one aspect. Last year the team turned south hard due to injuries. This year the injuries turned into retirements and a coaching change with new schemes and fewer star players. It's natural to be disappointed but to say Baalke can't do his job after two injury/retirment plagued years is just not sound logic.

I am looking forward to the rest of the year and hope they have limited injuries so we can see just where the team is talent wise and coaching wise.

When I looked toward this year the schedule made me ill. Six teams in the first nine games with SB aspirations. If Roethlisberger hadn't been injured Pittsburgh might be 5-1. GB: 6-0, Cards: 5-2, NYG: 4-3 and two wins against the Vikings: 4-2, and Baltimore: 1-6.

The only disappointing game was NYG...almost a win. The blowouts demonstated the weaknesses our team has...in spades! Good teams beating a transitioning team like a drum. Just surprised GB couldn't mount a better game...only won by 14!