Any questions now about McClown's "firing"?

Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by valrod33:
Willis
Vernon Davis
Goldson
Staley
Morgan
Crabtree

Anyone on this board would have picked Davis, Willis and Crabtree in those positions.

Morgan is no god yet, and when it's a sixth round pick, that could really just be luck.

I'll give you Staley and Goldson I guess.

Singletary has publicly admitted that he didn't want Willis with the selection, and has since been proven wrong. Many fans also didn't want Willis at the time.

I don't recall Singletary having much of a say when Willis was drafted, nor do I recall many fans not wanting to replace Derek Smith at MLB. Willis was a popular choice amongst fans, along with that clown Cariker (sp?).

Who really gives a s**t

Originally posted by dj43:
A lot of other GMs passed on Jackson as well. Frustrating as it is now in hindsight, McCloughan was in good company on that one.

Not a lot of GMs had WR as a big area of need. We did. We passed anyway.

Originally posted by jta854:

Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:
Passing on DeSean Jackson twice is my biggest gripe against Scott McCloughan. Both times I thought we were going to draft him, and with both picks, I was disappointed. Well, I was sort of hopeful about Rachal at first. But seeing him play, I have lost the majority of my confidence in him. Hopefully he proves me wrong, if he can step it up in pass protection, he can make a major positive difference in our offense.

Overall, I'm not that mad at Scott. He drafted Willis and he is a future Hall of Famer. And when he drafted Willis, it wasn't the most popular pick. The draft is a gamble, you hit big sometimes, other times you whiff. In hindsight, it seems obvious that McCloughan wasn't the greatest evaluator of talent, but he also wasn't that bad. He definitely helped us develop a young and talented team and for that I am thankful.

As for Coffee retiring, I am guessing hearing Singletary talk about how he wanted people on the team who wanted to be here for the past year had an influence on him admitting that he didn't really have his heart in football.

Some of you guys obsession with D. Jackson is amazing.

He has more than 2,000 receiving yards in his first two seasons, which puts him in elite company. I don't think he would have achieved that in SF, but there is no doubt that we would have found ourselves a great player!

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by ghostrider:

Originally posted by mcbaes72:

Originally posted by ghostrider:

Originally posted by valrod33:
Willis
Vernon Davis
Goldson
Staley
Morgan
Crabtree

Plus Free Agents...

Justin Smith (pro bowl)
Walt Harris (pro bowl)
Nate Clements
Larry Allen (pro bowl)
Moran Norris

Weren't some of those guys drafted/signed by Nolan before McDrunk was promoted to GM? I guess McD gets some credit, too.

What do you think the Vice President of player personnel does?

This was before the VPP position.

Those free-agents were no brainers - those are the "wins". You have to include:
Darrell Jackson
Ashley Lelie
Isaac Bruce (was okay for us)
Bryant Johnson
Jonas Jennings

but let's go back to the draft picks since someone has listed all the successes

Bear Pascoe
David Baas
Adam Snyder
Balmer


and that's just off the top of my head ... I'm sure you all have others.


The fact that the offense was not successful while the defensive acquisitions were tells me Nolan had a LOT more to do with the success of the defensive signings than McCloughan did.

You said it better than I did.

Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:

Originally posted by jta854:

Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:
Passing on DeSean Jackson twice is my biggest gripe against Scott McCloughan. Both times I thought we were going to draft him, and with both picks, I was disappointed. Well, I was sort of hopeful about Rachal at first. But seeing him play, I have lost the majority of my confidence in him. Hopefully he proves me wrong, if he can step it up in pass protection, he can make a major positive difference in our offense.

Overall, I'm not that mad at Scott. He drafted Willis and he is a future Hall of Famer. And when he drafted Willis, it wasn't the most popular pick. The draft is a gamble, you hit big sometimes, other times you whiff. In hindsight, it seems obvious that McCloughan wasn't the greatest evaluator of talent, but he also wasn't that bad. He definitely helped us develop a young and talented team and for that I am thankful.

As for Coffee retiring, I am guessing hearing Singletary talk about how he wanted people on the team who wanted to be here for the past year had an influence on him admitting that he didn't really have his heart in football.

Some of you guys obsession with D. Jackson is amazing.

He has more than 2,000 receiving yards in his first two seasons, which puts him in elite company. I don't think he would have achieved that in SF, but there is no doubt that we would have found ourselves a great player!

Not to mention a top return man.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:
Passing on DeSean Jackson twice is my biggest gripe against Scott McCloughan. Both times I thought we were going to draft him, and with both picks, I was disappointed. Well, I was sort of hopeful about Rachal at first. But seeing him play, I have lost the majority of my confidence in him. Hopefully he proves me wrong, if he can step it up in pass protection, he can make a major positive difference in our offense.

Overall, I'm not that mad at Scott. He drafted Willis and he is a future Hall of Famer. And when he drafted Willis, it wasn't the most popular pick. The draft is a gamble, you hit big sometimes, other times you whiff. In hindsight, it seems obvious that McCloughan wasn't the greatest evaluator of talent, but he also wasn't that bad. He definitely helped us develop a young and talented team and for that I am thankful.

As for Coffee retiring, I am guessing hearing Singletary talk about how he wanted people on the team who wanted to be here for the past year had an influence on him admitting that he didn't really have his heart in football.

A lot of other GMs passed on Jackson as well. Frustrating as it is now in hindsight, McCloughan was in good company on that one.

As to Rachal, it is normal for a young OL to take a year or two to become a quality player in the league. Last year's blocking schemes were junk. I hope they are better this year. Some consistency in scheme will help the player. Now he has a rook on one side of him and a brand new center on the other - not an easy gig.

Can we agree that being in the majority, and being wrong, is not being in good company? The majority voted for Obama, but the majority also didn't do their homework or they wouldn't have voted for him (Viewing his senate record would have been evidence enough that his rhetoric was nothing more than hyperbole). His presidency has been exactly what everyone who had a clue expected it to be, conflict averse, and maintaing the status quo --- far from "change we can believe in".

I digress.

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:

Originally posted by jta854:

Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:
Passing on DeSean Jackson twice is my biggest gripe against Scott McCloughan. Both times I thought we were going to draft him, and with both picks, I was disappointed. Well, I was sort of hopeful about Rachal at first. But seeing him play, I have lost the majority of my confidence in him. Hopefully he proves me wrong, if he can step it up in pass protection, he can make a major positive difference in our offense.

Overall, I'm not that mad at Scott. He drafted Willis and he is a future Hall of Famer. And when he drafted Willis, it wasn't the most popular pick. The draft is a gamble, you hit big sometimes, other times you whiff. In hindsight, it seems obvious that McCloughan wasn't the greatest evaluator of talent, but he also wasn't that bad. He definitely helped us develop a young and talented team and for that I am thankful.

As for Coffee retiring, I am guessing hearing Singletary talk about how he wanted people on the team who wanted to be here for the past year had an influence on him admitting that he didn't really have his heart in football.

Some of you guys obsession with D. Jackson is amazing.

He has more than 2,000 receiving yards in his first two seasons, which puts him in elite company. I don't think he would have achieved that in SF, but there is no doubt that we would have found ourselves a great player!

Not to mention a top return man.

Niners werent the only team to pass him up

Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:
Passing on DeSean Jackson twice is my biggest gripe against Scott McCloughan. Both times I thought we were going to draft him, and with both picks, I was disappointed. Well, I was sort of hopeful about Rachal at first. But seeing him play, I have lost the majority of my confidence in him. Hopefully he proves me wrong, if he can step it up in pass protection, he can make a major positive difference in our offense.

Overall, I'm not that mad at Scott. He drafted Willis and he is a future Hall of Famer. And when he drafted Willis, it wasn't the most popular pick. The draft is a gamble, you hit big sometimes, other times you whiff. In hindsight, it seems obvious that McCloughan wasn't the greatest evaluator of talent, but he also wasn't that bad. He definitely helped us develop a young and talented team and for that I am thankful.

As for Coffee retiring, I am guessing hearing Singletary talk about how he wanted people on the team who wanted to be here for the past year had an influence on him admitting that he didn't really have his heart in football.

A lot of other GMs passed on Jackson as well. Frustrating as it is now in hindsight, McCloughan was in good company on that one.

As to Rachal, it is normal for a young OL to take a year or two to become a quality player in the league. Last year's blocking schemes were junk. I hope they are better this year. Some consistency in scheme will help the player. Now he has a rook on one side of him and a brand new center on the other - not an easy gig.

Can we agree that being in the majority, and being wrong, is not being in good company? The majority voted for Obama, but the majority also didn't do their homework or they wouldn't have voted for him (Viewing his senate record would have been evidence enough that his rhetoric was nothing more than hyperbole). His presidency has been exactly what everyone who had a clue expected it to be, conflict averse, and maintaing the status quo --- far from "change we can believe in".

I digress.

Kilgore_Trout is a classic handle, btw. Nothing like a Vonnegut reference in Niner Talk.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by ghostrider:

Originally posted by mcbaes72:

Originally posted by ghostrider:

Originally posted by valrod33:
Willis
Vernon Davis
Goldson
Staley
Morgan
Crabtree

Plus Free Agents...

Justin Smith (pro bowl)
Walt Harris (pro bowl)
Nate Clements
Larry Allen (pro bowl)
Moran Norris

Weren't some of those guys drafted/signed by Nolan before McDrunk was promoted to GM? I guess McD gets some credit, too.

What do you think the Vice President of player personnel does?

This was before the VPP position.

Those free-agents were no brainers - those are the "wins". You have to include:
Darrell Jackson
Ashley Lelie
Isaac Bruce (was okay for us)
Bryant Johnson
Jonas Jennings

but let's go back to the draft picks since someone has listed all the successes

Bear Pascoe
David Baas
Adam Snyder
Balmer


and that's just off the top of my head ... I'm sure you all have others.


The fact that the offense was not successful while the defensive acquisitions were tells me Nolan had a LOT more to do with the success of the defensive signings than McCloughan did.

Meh. Obviously the man isn't perfect. I certainly am not advocating that. No GM/VPPP is going to hit a home run on every pick and decision. I'm merely stating that the guy wasn't 'awful'. It's indisputable that he improved the talent level of this team.

Now, Terry Donahue, he was awful and degraded the talent level of our team.

Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:
Passing on DeSean Jackson twice is my biggest gripe against Scott McCloughan. Both times I thought we were going to draft him, and with both picks, I was disappointed. Well, I was sort of hopeful about Rachal at first. But seeing him play, I have lost the majority of my confidence in him. Hopefully he proves me wrong, if he can step it up in pass protection, he can make a major positive difference in our offense.

Overall, I'm not that mad at Scott. He drafted Willis and he is a future Hall of Famer. And when he drafted Willis, it wasn't the most popular pick. The draft is a gamble, you hit big sometimes, other times you whiff. In hindsight, it seems obvious that McCloughan wasn't the greatest evaluator of talent, but he also wasn't that bad. He definitely helped us develop a young and talented team and for that I am thankful.

As for Coffee retiring, I am guessing hearing Singletary talk about how he wanted people on the team who wanted to be here for the past year had an influence on him admitting that he didn't really have his heart in football.

A lot of other GMs passed on Jackson as well. Frustrating as it is now in hindsight, McCloughan was in good company on that one.

As to Rachal, it is normal for a young OL to take a year or two to become a quality player in the league. Last year's blocking schemes were junk. I hope they are better this year. Some consistency in scheme will help the player. Now he has a rook on one side of him and a brand new center on the other - not an easy gig.

Can we agree that being in the majority, and being wrong, is not being in good company? The majority voted for Obama, but the majority also didn't do their homework or they wouldn't have voted for him (Viewing his senate record would have been evidence enough that his rhetoric was nothing more than hyperbole). His presidency has been exactly what everyone who had a clue expected it to be, conflict averse, and maintaing the status quo --- far from "change we can believe in".

I digress.

NO POLITICS IN MY FOOTBALL DISCUSSIONS. So unnecessary.

DeSean is amazing. Scotty Mac f'd up BAD missing on him... twice.

Originally posted by oregondave:

Originally posted by CornellU49er:

Originally posted by valrod33:
Willis
Vernon Davis
Goldson
Staley
Morgan
Crabtree

Willis and Crabtree were obvious selections at those spots IMHO.

Vernon Davis was a reach at the time and it only worked out because of Singletary.

Morgan was obviously great value but I'm not convinced he's a legit #2 just yet.

The only 2 I'll give you as being truly noteworthy GM work are moving up for Staley and drafting Goldson.

Vernon Davis was no reach. He was a no-brainer, in the same category as Willis and Crabtree.

I agree that Morgan is overrated.

I maintain that at the time, Vernon was a reach. He was a workout wonder with no hands and an attitude problem. As the highest drafted TE in history and the highest paid TE in the league his rookie season (not 100% sure these are true, but if not they're close and the point still stands) I would expect a player without such significant holes in his game. Before last year many on this board thought he would be a major bust. Singletary saved his career and turned all of that potential into a Pro Bowl product, but how many other times have we seen potential not pan out?

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by valrod33:
Willis
Vernon Davis
Goldson
Staley
Morgan
Crabtree

Willis was obvious and everyone expected it. Same with Vernon Davis. Same for Crabtree. Goldson has yet to prove much. Morgan is good for where he was drafted, but isn't as good as everyone thinks he is. Staley is good.

The only real gem he drafted was Frank Gore. Not to mention, he wasn't calling the shots when Gore, Willis, VD and Staley were drafted - Nolan had just as much to do with those players coming here as McCloughan, if not more.

What sort of qualifications make a player obvious and expected?

Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:
Passing on DeSean Jackson twice is my biggest gripe against Scott McCloughan. Both times I thought we were going to draft him, and with both picks, I was disappointed. Well, I was sort of hopeful about Rachal at first. But seeing him play, I have lost the majority of my confidence in him. Hopefully he proves me wrong, if he can step it up in pass protection, he can make a major positive difference in our offense.

Overall, I'm not that mad at Scott. He drafted Willis and he is a future Hall of Famer. And when he drafted Willis, it wasn't the most popular pick. The draft is a gamble, you hit big sometimes, other times you whiff. In hindsight, it seems obvious that McCloughan wasn't the greatest evaluator of talent, but he also wasn't that bad. He definitely helped us develop a young and talented team and for that I am thankful.

As for Coffee retiring, I am guessing hearing Singletary talk about how he wanted people on the team who wanted to be here for the past year had an influence on him admitting that he didn't really have his heart in football.

A lot of other GMs passed on Jackson as well. Frustrating as it is now in hindsight, McCloughan was in good company on that one.

As to Rachal, it is normal for a young OL to take a year or two to become a quality player in the league. Last year's blocking schemes were junk. I hope they are better this year. Some consistency in scheme will help the player. Now he has a rook on one side of him and a brand new center on the other - not an easy gig.

Can we agree that being in the majority, and being wrong, is not being in good company? The majority voted for Obama, but the majority also didn't do their homework or they wouldn't have voted for him (Viewing his senate record would have been evidence enough that his rhetoric was nothing more than hyperbole). His presidency has been exactly what everyone who had a clue expected it to be, conflict averse, and maintaing the status quo --- far from "change we can believe in".

I digress.

blow it out your ass with the political BS. This is not the place for conservative crap.

Or liberal crap for that matter.

Originally posted by CornellU49er:

Originally posted by oregondave:

Originally posted by CornellU49er:

Originally posted by valrod33:
Willis
Vernon Davis
Goldson
Staley
Morgan
Crabtree

Willis and Crabtree were obvious selections at those spots IMHO.

Vernon Davis was a reach at the time and it only worked out because of Singletary.

Morgan was obviously great value but I'm not convinced he's a legit #2 just yet.

The only 2 I'll give you as being truly noteworthy GM work are moving up for Staley and drafting Goldson.

Vernon Davis was no reach. He was a no-brainer, in the same category as Willis and Crabtree.

I agree that Morgan is overrated.

I maintain that at the time, Vernon was a reach. He was a workout wonder with no hands and an attitude problem. As the highest drafted TE in history and the highest paid TE in the league his rookie season (not 100% sure these are true, but if not they're close and the point still stands) I would expect a player without such significant holes in his game. Before last year many on this board thought he would be a major bust. Singletary saved his career and turned all of that potential into a Pro Bowl product, but how many other times have we seen potential not pan out?

it's nice that you think he was a reach, what are your credentials again?

All the experts had him as a top ten pick. They took him at 7. Therefore, not a reach.