Have we lost our edge?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by aclarke49:

Originally posted by 49erWill:
what edge?

I hear you but we went undefeated in the West last season. I'm not so sure that will happen again.

Nope, we lost to Seattle when we absolutely NEEDED to win - piss poor game planning cost us that one for sure! Seattle was terrible at that time and devastated by injuries.

You're right, too early I guess. But my point is still the same.

Originally posted by NCommand:
I will be completely honest here. I am very impressed with what the Hawks have done this season and there seems to be a strong sense of enthusiasm in Seattle. They still have the most established QB in the NFC West and have made some nice pickups. They still have some gaps obviously but don't be surprised if Seattle is very competitive and even wins the NFC West, as hard as it is to say. Pete has a very strong offensive mind and he WILL get the absolute most out of his offense. He's extremely creative and creating mismatches and many of the players he has now are familiar with his system; a system that did bring much success. On the other hand, we don't have a HC with an offensive mind and offense, clearly, has been our weakness whether we've had weapons or not, creativity has not existed in our system since Martz left, good or bad. Raye flat out scares me and I'm afraid we are going to force feed NFL defenses Gore and our o-line all day again. We keep hearing "balance" but with Singletary and Raye's track record, does anyone fully have confidence this is a staff who can game-plan properly, make in-game and half-time adjustments and essentially, outcoach an opponent by getting the max out of all our offensive weapons? Let's just say that I'm cautiously optimistic even with the help of Johnson's knowledge of the spread and Alex getting more input into game planning. Will he ever be allowed to call an audible and get out of a run up the gut when clearly, the defense is run blitzing with 8 and 9 men in the box? The Niners have the potential to run away with this division no matter how much Seattle has done this offseason but now it's up to the philosophy and coaching staff to put it all together. We shall find out in a few months!

There it is. Having the best quarterback makes up for tons of problems. It's one reason why they dominated the division for a period of time. It was b/c Holmgren/Hasselback were the most stable and best head coach/qb combo in the division. Then Arizona took over b/c they got a capable head coach and Warner was the best qb in the division. That's why it's a qb league. If you look at every division the team with the best or arguably the best qb won that division

Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
What edge have we lost?

Many comentators had us as the front runners in our division and most still do, but I don't think they are quite as convinced as before. Now we are hearing more and more that the West is wide open. (Not that it wasn't said before, but it seems to be more of a common theme.)

With the downfall of AZ, I felt we were in the drivers seat. However, with the moves by the Hawks for example I think they have closed the gap quite a bit.

Did we ever have an edge ?

It all depends on Alex Smith, the play calling by Jimmy Raye (possibly # 32 of 32 offensive coordinators in the league), and injuries.

I think the Niners will win 8-11 games this season.

Originally posted by NCommand:
I will be completely honest here. I am very impressed with what the Hawks have done this season and there seems to be a strong sense of enthusiasm in Seattle. They still have the most established QB in the NFC West and have made some nice pickups. They still have some gaps obviously but don't be surprised if Seattle is very competitive and even wins the NFC West, as hard as it is to say. Pete has a very strong offensive mind and he WILL get the absolute most out of his offense. He's extremely creative and creating mismatches and many of the players he has now are familiar with his system; a system that did bring much success. On the other hand, we don't have a HC with an offensive mind and offense, clearly, has been our weakness whether we've had weapons or not, creativity has not existed in our system since Martz left, good or bad. Raye flat out scares me and I'm afraid we are going to force feed NFL defenses Gore and our o-line all day again. We keep hearing "balance" but with Singletary and Raye's track record, does anyone fully have confidence this is a staff who can game-plan properly, make in-game and half-time adjustments and essentially, outcoach an opponent by getting the max out of all our offensive weapons? Let's just say that I'm cautiously optimistic even with the help of Johnson's knowledge of the spread and Alex getting more input into game planning. Will he ever be allowed to call an audible and get out of a run up the gut when clearly, the defense is run blitzing with 8 and 9 men in the box? The Niners have the potential to run away with this division no matter how much Seattle has done this offseason but now it's up to the philosophy and coaching staff to put it all together. We shall find out in a few months!

Offensive mind? Pete Carroll was our DC back in the day, remember? Defense is his background. He's had some good OC's at USC but his HC days in the NFL were at best decent, at worst unremarkable. He's dealing with pro players now who make more money than he does. Look how many successful college HC's fail at the pro level. Spurier, Erickson, and yes Carrol. Who sez Carrol version 1.2 is going to be any better? Seattle, shmeattle.

I think SF or AZ has the best shot at a division title this year. They seem to have the most continuity going for them but even then this division is still up for grabs. Maybe St. Louis comes out of nowhere and runs away with it.

This thread is odd. Unless you look at having an 8-8 record as being right down the middle and construing THAT as being on the edge, there is no edge to be lost.

[ Edited by TDilvr on Apr 27, 2010 at 09:18:50 ]

Originally posted by aclarke49:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I will be completely honest here. I am very impressed with what the Hawks have done this season and there seems to be a strong sense of enthusiasm in Seattle. They still have the most established QB in the NFC West and have made some nice pickups. They still have some gaps obviously but don't be surprised if Seattle is very competitive and even wins the NFC West, as hard as it is to say. Pete has a very strong offensive mind and he WILL get the absolute most out of his offense. He's extremely creative and creating mismatches and many of the players he has now are familiar with his system; a system that did bring much success. On the other hand, we don't have a HC with an offensive mind and offense, clearly, has been our weakness whether we've had weapons or not, creativity has not existed in our system since Martz left, good or bad. Raye flat out scares me and I'm afraid we are going to force feed NFL defenses Gore and our o-line all day again. We keep hearing "balance" but with Singletary and Raye's track record, does anyone fully have confidence this is a staff who can game-plan properly, make in-game and half-time adjustments and essentially, outcoach an opponent by getting the max out of all our offensive weapons? Let's just say that I'm cautiously optimistic even with the help of Johnson's knowledge of the spread and Alex getting more input into game planning. Will he ever be allowed to call an audible and get out of a run up the gut when clearly, the defense is run blitzing with 8 and 9 men in the box? The Niners have the potential to run away with this division no matter how much Seattle has done this offseason but now it's up to the philosophy and coaching staff to put it all together. We shall find out in a few months!

I agree. The addition of a better line, Young WR's and RB's in Seattle gives me concerns. However, what makes me more nervouse is that their D should be much improved.

I second that! Great post. I don'ty think Arizona is going to be as bad as people make them out to be. Theyt still have a lot of weapons on offense & havea stout Defense. Rams still suck. Seattle will be fiesty for sure. IF hasselback is healthy they have the best QB in the divison. They have a scrappy D too.

Nope we didn't, a bunch of rookies just came into the division that's all. It's not gonna change anything, atleast not this year. We'll take the division.

Originally posted by NCommand:
I will be completely honest here. I am very impressed with what the Hawks have done this season and there seems to be a strong sense of enthusiasm in Seattle. They still have the most established QB in the NFC West and have made some nice pickups. They still have some gaps obviously but don't be surprised if Seattle is very competitive and even wins the NFC West, as hard as it is to say. Pete has a very strong offensive mind and he WILL get the absolute most out of his offense. He's extremely creative and creating mismatches and many of the players he has now are familiar with his system; a system that did bring much success. On the other hand, we don't have a HC with an offensive mind and offense, clearly, has been our weakness whether we've had weapons or not, creativity has not existed in our system since Martz left, good or bad. Raye flat out scares me and I'm afraid we are going to force feed NFL defenses Gore and our o-line all day again. We keep hearing "balance" but with Singletary and Raye's track record, does anyone fully have confidence this is a staff who can game-plan properly, make in-game and half-time adjustments and essentially, outcoach an opponent by getting the max out of all our offensive weapons? Let's just say that I'm cautiously optimistic even with the help of Johnson's knowledge of the spread and Alex getting more input into game planning. Will he ever be allowed to call an audible and get out of a run up the gut when clearly, the defense is run blitzing with 8 and 9 men in the box? The Niners have the potential to run away with this division no matter how much Seattle has done this offseason but now it's up to the philosophy and coaching staff to put it all together. We shall find out in a few months!

Don't you remember how incredibly awful Carroll was in NE? He ran a SB team into the ground in less than two years and after he left it only took two years for them to get back to the SB. The guy is a great recruiter who is being asked to be a coach. I am very happy with Seattles offseason, Carroll alone should push them to the bottom of the NFC west.

Originally posted by TDilvr:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I will be completely honest here. I am very impressed with what the Hawks have done this season and there seems to be a strong sense of enthusiasm in Seattle. They still have the most established QB in the NFC West and have made some nice pickups. They still have some gaps obviously but don't be surprised if Seattle is very competitive and even wins the NFC West, as hard as it is to say. Pete has a very strong offensive mind and he WILL get the absolute most out of his offense. He's extremely creative and creating mismatches and many of the players he has now are familiar with his system; a system that did bring much success. On the other hand, we don't have a HC with an offensive mind and offense, clearly, has been our weakness whether we've had weapons or not, creativity has not existed in our system since Martz left, good or bad. Raye flat out scares me and I'm afraid we are going to force feed NFL defenses Gore and our o-line all day again. We keep hearing "balance" but with Singletary and Raye's track record, does anyone fully have confidence this is a staff who can game-plan properly, make in-game and half-time adjustments and essentially, outcoach an opponent by getting the max out of all our offensive weapons? Let's just say that I'm cautiously optimistic even with the help of Johnson's knowledge of the spread and Alex getting more input into game planning. Will he ever be allowed to call an audible and get out of a run up the gut when clearly, the defense is run blitzing with 8 and 9 men in the box? The Niners have the potential to run away with this division no matter how much Seattle has done this offseason but now it's up to the philosophy and coaching staff to put it all together. We shall find out in a few months!

Offensive mind? Pete Carroll was our DC back in the day, remember? Defense is his background. He's had some good OC's at USC but his HC days in the NFL were at best decent, at worst unremarkable. He's dealing with pro players now who make more money than he does. Look how many successful college HC's fail at the pro level. Spurier, Erickson, and yes Carrol. Who sez Carrol version 1.2 is going to be any better? Seattle, shmeattle.

I think SF or AZ has the best shot at a division title this year. They seem to have the most continuity going for them but even then this division is still up for grabs. Maybe St. Louis comes out of nowhere and runs away with it.

This thread is odd. Unless you look at having an 8-8 record as being right down the middle and construing THAT as being on the edge, there is no edge to be lost.

Except he's bringing with him Jeremy Bates who was his OC at USC and would you disagree that they are creative offensively? I agree that his first stint wasn't successful, like a lot of college coaches but given that this is a passing league again and with a (assumed) healthy Matt and some new weapons, they could surprise some peopl esp. if they shore up the dline. I'm not saying we shoudn't win the NFC West...in fact, there is no excuse...just saying don't be surprised if we get outcoached from an offensive standpoint (again).

I remember when everyone said the Chiefs had one helluva draft in 07-08.....look how that turned out.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by TDilvr:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I will be completely honest here. I am very impressed with what the Hawks have done this season and there seems to be a strong sense of enthusiasm in Seattle. They still have the most established QB in the NFC West and have made some nice pickups. They still have some gaps obviously but don't be surprised if Seattle is very competitive and even wins the NFC West, as hard as it is to say. Pete has a very strong offensive mind and he WILL get the absolute most out of his offense. He's extremely creative and creating mismatches and many of the players he has now are familiar with his system; a system that did bring much success. On the other hand, we don't have a HC with an offensive mind and offense, clearly, has been our weakness whether we've had weapons or not, creativity has not existed in our system since Martz left, good or bad. Raye flat out scares me and I'm afraid we are going to force feed NFL defenses Gore and our o-line all day again. We keep hearing "balance" but with Singletary and Raye's track record, does anyone fully have confidence this is a staff who can game-plan properly, make in-game and half-time adjustments and essentially, outcoach an opponent by getting the max out of all our offensive weapons? Let's just say that I'm cautiously optimistic even with the help of Johnson's knowledge of the spread and Alex getting more input into game planning. Will he ever be allowed to call an audible and get out of a run up the gut when clearly, the defense is run blitzing with 8 and 9 men in the box? The Niners have the potential to run away with this division no matter how much Seattle has done this offseason but now it's up to the philosophy and coaching staff to put it all together. We shall find out in a few months!

Offensive mind? Pete Carroll was our DC back in the day, remember? Defense is his background. He's had some good OC's at USC but his HC days in the NFL were at best decent, at worst unremarkable. He's dealing with pro players now who make more money than he does. Look how many successful college HC's fail at the pro level. Spurier, Erickson, and yes Carrol. Who sez Carrol version 1.2 is going to be any better? Seattle, shmeattle.

I think SF or AZ has the best shot at a division title this year. They seem to have the most continuity going for them but even then this division is still up for grabs. Maybe St. Louis comes out of nowhere and runs away with it.

This thread is odd. Unless you look at having an 8-8 record as being right down the middle and construing THAT as being on the edge, there is no edge to be lost.

Except he's bringing with him Jeremy Bates who was his OC at USC and would you disagree that they are creative offensively? I agree that his first stint wasn't successful, like a lot of college coaches but given that this is a passing league again and with a (assumed) healthy Matt and some new weapons, they could surprise some peopl esp. if they shore up the dline. I'm not saying we shoudn't win the NFC West...in fact, there is no excuse...just saying don't be surprised if we get outcoached from an offensive standpoint (again).

Sorry my friend, but this is rediculous. J. Raye has more success on the professional level than anyone on their entire staff; combined! I think that you must be thinking about Nolan. Every thing that you questioned, they already have done. Alex has even chaged the play in the huddle. The lack of execution is what caused the lost of the game last season.

Originally posted by NCommand:
I will be completely honest here. I am very impressed with what the Hawks have done this season and there seems to be a strong sense of enthusiasm in Seattle. They still have the most established QB in the NFC West and have made some nice pickups. They still have some gaps obviously but don't be surprised if Seattle is very competitive and even wins the NFC West, as hard as it is to say. Pete has a very strong offensive mind and he WILL get the absolute most out of his offense. He's extremely creative and creating mismatches and many of the players he has now are familiar with his system; a system that did bring much success. On the other hand, we don't have a HC with an offensive mind and offense, clearly, has been our weakness whether we've had weapons or not, creativity has not existed in our system since Martz left, good or bad. Raye flat out scares me and I'm afraid we are going to force feed NFL defenses Gore and our o-line all day again. We keep hearing "balance" but with Singletary and Raye's track record, does anyone fully have confidence this is a staff who can game-plan properly, make in-game and half-time adjustments and essentially, outcoach an opponent by getting the max out of all our offensive weapons? Let's just say that I'm cautiously optimistic even with the help of Johnson's knowledge of the spread and Alex getting more input into game planning. Will he ever be allowed to call an audible and get out of a run up the gut when clearly, the defense is run blitzing with 8 and 9 men in the box? The Niners have the potential to run away with this division no matter how much Seattle has done this offseason but now it's up to the philosophy and coaching staff to put it all together. We shall find out in a few months!

Good post. However, I need to make a few points:

1) Having a "great draft" according to all the pundits and fans doesn't really mean anything. All it means is that on paper the draft looks good. In reality, Seattle could have walked away with the worst draft in the league. Maybe their percentages of succeeding are higher because they have better players on papar, but that is not necessarily something tangible, YET.

2) When I compare our two teams I don't see one position that I would swap with the Seahawks. LBs...NO, RBs...NO, Oline and Dline...NO, WR...NO, and so on. I think our teams is better all around with more continuity.

3) Finally, isn't Carroll a defensive coach? I know he was a defensive backs coach before and I always thought defense was his specialty (not offense).

f**k the seahawks. only time we'll have an issue is in seattle opening day. its tough playing in seattle but no way in hell this team is better than us. if we lose to them it would be a HUGE let down.

Not worried about the Seahawks. I'm not scared of Lendale White or Leon Washington. I hope they enjoy trying to run against Willis.