Houston Astros stole signs throughout their 2017 championship season.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

No. He said he heard the penalty would be incredibly harsh. Its his opinion that stripping the title is something MLB would consider. I just dont see that ever happening.

Cmon John. Re-read my posts. The bolded was and is my argument. I never once said it WOULD happen.

Ok. And I dont think it's something they would ever seriously consider.

And that's fine. But your/99's opinion is no more valid than mine. Its clear that MLB is taking this very seriously.

Vacating a title makes the sport look horrible. MLB can make an example out of Houston with hefty fines and penalties without marring its own history books. I just dont think theres even a 1% chance they take Houston's title. It would be cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Fully agree.

Wailers since you agree, maybe you can explain your stance instead of just repeating yourself.

Explain to me why the optics of having a vacant title makes MLB look worse than having a champion who blatantly cheated to get there. Or explain to me why you think its worse.

Thx.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Wailers since you agree, maybe you can explain your stance instead of just repeating yourself.

Explain to me why the optics of having a vacant title makes MLB look worse than having a champion who blatantly cheated to get there. Or explain to me why you think its worse.

Thx.

Ya i dont get that either. They do that in the Olympics, they've done in different soccer leagues, Ncaa with Lousiville and USC, and it has quite the opposite effect of making the sport look bad. Looking bad is not stripping them of their championship. Makes the league look like a joke. But when you have a league that influences baseballs to make offense more "exciting" without telling anyone and lying it about, its obvious they dont care if they look like a joke.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Wailers since you agree, maybe you can explain your stance instead of just repeating yourself.

Explain to me why the optics of having a vacant title makes MLB look worse than having a champion who blatantly cheated to get there. Or explain to me why you think its worse.

Thx.

Because in 20 years people will barely remember the Astros trash can thing. It would guarantee a black eye lives on forever if they remove the 2017 title from the books.

If the league severely punishes Houston with fines, suspensions, draft and international penalties, and maybe even permanent bans for whoever organized the system, they can conclude that whatever evidence they find has been reprimanded, but also say that changing the history books isnt realistic, because the entire thing is far too convoluted to sort out into black and white.

Most will be fine with that, and everyone moves on. The Astros have already lost their title in the court of public opinion. Years from now the story will fade away, just like when the Giants were stealing signs from the Dodgers from
the bleachers when they hit the Shot Heard Round the World.

You vacate the title, it becomes a permanent black eye on the sport, which is why itll never happen.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Wailers since you agree, maybe you can explain your stance instead of just repeating yourself.

Explain to me why the optics of having a vacant title makes MLB look worse than having a champion who blatantly cheated to get there. Or explain to me why you think its worse.

Thx.

This is definitely uncharted territory for MLB. I think it's going to take some serious looking into and the exact extent of the cheating. How long did it go on for? Etc. to decide the punishment. I mean the Astros using and setting up modern day tech is a bad look.

(Not sure if anyone caught the Kuiper piece a week or two back where the Giants caught the Reds doing it in the playoffs)

I wouldn't be fully opposed to a vacated title but I don't think that looks good for the sport. I think the fines, the punishments could be pretty intense that it will stand alone. Then what about all of those World Series teams with steroid users, they never had to give up their titles for something everyone was doing. Sadly to say cheating has been going on for a long time in this sport.

I wouldn't put it past the new commish though if he goes with a vacated title. That's the only way to set the precedent.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Wailers since you agree, maybe you can explain your stance instead of just repeating yourself.

Explain to me why the optics of having a vacant title makes MLB look worse than having a champion who blatantly cheated to get there. Or explain to me why you think its worse.

Thx.

Ya i dont get that either. They do that in the Olympics, they've done in different soccer leagues, Ncaa with Lousiville and USC, and it has quite the opposite effect of making the sport look bad. Looking bad is not stripping them of their championship. Makes the league look like a joke. But when you have a league that influences baseballs to make offense more "exciting" without telling anyone and lying it about, its obvious they dont care if they look like a joke.

I hear ya but so what they take away USC's title that punishment was late and meh... how many years later did they do it? Had really no effect on the university. The Olympics is a crooked as they come too. Removing championships really doesn't take the sting out unfortunately.

You called it out in the end and We are talking about baseball who purposely turned a blind eye to the steroid era and financially gained from it yet are now punishing the players? Juiced balls too have always been a call out. Adderall and PED usage, etc.

Fwiw Bob Nightengale is reporting that the MLB is ready to give the Astros one of the harshest punishments ever given by the end of the month.

Originally posted by VaBeachNiner:

Fwiw Bob Nightengale is reporting that the MLB is ready to give the Astros one of the harshest punishments ever given by the end of the month.

Can't wait...

Originally posted by VaBeachNiner:

Fwiw Bob Nightengale is reporting that the MLB is ready to give the Astros one of the harshest punishments ever given by the end of the month.

If they don't strip them I expect at least a 1 year post season ban and multiple draft picks taken away. And hopefully a long suspension for any coach and FO guy that knew about this and let it happen or created it.

Somewhere among the bearded in heaven or the bald in hell Leo Ernest Durocher is watching on.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by VaBeachNiner:

Fwiw Bob Nightengale is reporting that the MLB is ready to give the Astros one of the harshest punishments ever given by the end of the month.

If they don't strip them I expect at least a 1 year post season ban and multiple draft picks taken away. And hopefully a long suspension for any coach and FO guy that knew about this and let it happen or created it.

LOL post season ban? This isn't college football.

Originally posted by Niners99:

LOL post season ban? This isn't college football.

Sounds like you have the ban all figured out, so no need to wait on MLB to tell us what it is, why don't you just tell us?;

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by Niners99:

LOL post season ban? This isn't college football.

Sounds like you have the ban all figured out, so no need to wait on MLB to tell us what it is, why don't you just tell us?;

Thats not even a real punishment. Why would the Astros even try if they were banned from the postseason? They'd tank the season.

I don't know anything about the punishment, but I do know what extreme things suggested that they won't do. Stripping a title damages your sports' history, and banning from a postseason just ruins the integrity of the 2020 season for the entire AL.

There will likely be harsh suspensions/bans of players, coaches, and staff. Harsh stripping of draft picks and international bonus slot money in future seasons. Plus the public shaming aspect. That will be enough of a punishment without doing damage to the entire sport.

Originally posted by Niners99:
Thats not even a real punishment. Why would the Astros even try if they were banned from the postseason? They'd tank the season.

I don't know anything about the punishment, but I do know what extreme things suggested that they won't do. Stripping a title damages your sports' history, and banning from a postseason just ruins the integrity of the 2020 season for the entire AL.

There will likely be harsh suspensions/bans of players, coaches, and staff. Harsh stripping of draft picks and international bonus slot money in future seasons. Plus the public shaming aspect. That will be enough of a punishment without doing damage to the entire sport.

I am not sure of severe player punishment. I think they come down HARD on ownership to make the rest of the MLB say i dont want that. a huge fine, and i think to have it easily trsnsfer to large market teams, it should a percentage of their payroll (5-10 percent). Also have it count towards ceiling payroll but not to floor requirements.

Front office should lose international money, and draft picks( but not 1st or 2nd it may encourage teams to go after FAs and not lose anything) and maybe you have the last pick of the round.

Slso any manager or coach in the know gets a fine and 1/2 to 3/4 year suspension.

Players should at most get a fine.

No amount of fines, loss of draft picks or suspension of front office members/coaches is a harsh enough penalty.

Ask a fan of a random team if they would sacrifice draft picks, organizational suspensions and fines for a title. I would find it hard to believe anyone would say no.

Still hope they strip Houston of their title.