When all is said and done the NBA GOAT is..........

Originally posted by sacniner:

That's a really interesting point. Talk about elevating guys? Jordan helped to elevate Kobe Bryant into being the second best of all time. Such a cool relationship

GOAT recognize GOAT. Kobe knew it from the moment he saw MJ. MJ knew it when he saw himself in the young KB.

The same 4 butthurt people

What has Lebron done that Kobe hasn't?

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Jordan led the Bulls to 62 wins in a season where Pippen sat half of it out. He might have been 4 years older when he started, but he was raw, undersized, and took an absolute beating in an era where thats how scorers were dealt with. LeBron has always had 2 inches and 60 lbs on MJ, and played in an era where you couldn't even hand check, and anytime someone fouled him LeBron cried about it.

The entire Pippen argument is such a dumb, desperation point for the pro-LeBron camp. One of the few pieces of driftwood to cling to in the ocean of the trying to declare LeBron as better than Jordan.

Pippen was a great teammate that was a key cog in their dynasty, but stop pretending Jordan would've been just a guy without him. Without Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, and AD LeBron has no rings. Its a lazy argument.

Not a desperation argument. It's a counter argument. Just bc it doesn't fit your narrative doesn't mean it dumb. Lebron won 66 and 61 games with no-name teammates in 2000s.

Fact is - Jordan never won a playoff series (not talking about championships - talking about A SERIES) without Pippen. There was a year where Bulls were up 2-1 on the Pistons and Pippen sat out game 6 and Bulls lost - even for one game Jordan couldn't elevate his team without Pippen.

Jordan was the greatest scorer we had ever seen. But, he
couldn't really run an offense consistently. So when Pippen wasn't there - he wasn't able to elevate his team

lol like I said, that argument doesn't help LeBron. When did he ever elevate a team by himself? He kept failing in Cleveland, panicked that his legacy was falling behind, and organized a super team in Miami to get some titles under his belt. Jordan didn't need to go join up with other elite guys to win titles and cherry pick his destinations based on best opportunity.

Originally posted by Jiks:

What has Lebron done that Kobe hasn't?

What has lebron done to you to make you so obsessed lol

Originally posted by Jiks:
What has Lebron done that Kobe hasn't?

Changed teams?
Started his own sports agency?
Call in favors to the commissioner?

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Jordan led the Bulls to 62 wins in a season where Pippen sat half of it out. He might have been 4 years older when he started, but he was raw, undersized, and took an absolute beating in an era where thats how scorers were dealt with. LeBron has always had 2 inches and 60 lbs on MJ, and played in an era where you couldn't even hand check, and anytime someone fouled him LeBron cried about it.

The entire Pippen argument is such a dumb, desperation point for the pro-LeBron camp. One of the few pieces of driftwood to cling to in the ocean of the trying to declare LeBron as better than Jordan.

Pippen was a great teammate that was a key cog in their dynasty, but stop pretending Jordan would've been just a guy without him. Without Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, and AD LeBron has no rings. Its a lazy argument.

Not a desperation argument. It's a counter argument. Just bc it doesn't fit your narrative doesn't mean it dumb. Lebron won 66 and 61 games with no-name teammates in 2000s.

Fact is - Jordan never won a playoff series (not talking about championships - talking about A SERIES) without Pippen. There was a year where Bulls were up 2-1 on the Pistons and Pippen sat out game 6 and Bulls lost - even for one game Jordan couldn't elevate his team without Pippen.

Jordan was the greatest scorer we had ever seen. But, he
couldn't really run an offense consistently. So when Pippen wasn't there - he wasn't able to elevate his team

lol like I said, that argument doesn't help LeBron. When did he ever elevate a team by himself? He kept failing in Cleveland, panicked that his legacy was falling behind, and organized a super team in Miami to get some titles under his belt. Jordan didn't need to go join up with other elite guys to win titles and cherry pick his destinations based on best opportunity.

Bron took a bad Cavs team to a finals. To say he doesnt elevate his players is ridiculous. The difference with the teams hes won on, he had help. Just like every single modern NBA player that won a title.

MJ isnt winning without Pippen, and guys like Rodman, Grant, Kerr, etc.. Its not Brons fault that the Cavs horrible front office couldnt get him help like Jordan, Kobe, Duncan, and other greats got.

Bron was still the best player in Miami and Clevland, and even now at 35 hes still the best player. I expect these arguments from jiks, sac, monster, and tjd.

You're better than this.

Originally posted by monsterzero789:

Originally posted by Jiks:

What has Lebron done that Kobe hasn't?

Changed teams?
Started his own sports agency?
Call in favors to the commissioner?

Touche

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Bron took a bad Cavs team to a finals. To say he doesnt elevate his players is ridiculous. The difference with the teams hes won on, he had help. Just like every single modern NBA player that won a title.

MJ isnt winning without Pippen, and guys like Rodman, Grant, Kerr, etc.. Its not Brons fault that the Cavs horrible front office couldnt get him help like Jordan, Kobe, Duncan, and other greats got.

Bron was still the best player in Miami and Clevland, and even now at 35 hes still the best player. I expect these arguments from jiks, sac, monster, and tjd.

You're better than this.

Where did I say he didn't elevate his teammates? I literally never said that.

You just took 4ML's argument against Jordan and then just applied it to my argument against LeBron.

The entire thing started with 4ML saying Jordan was nothing without Pippen, which makes no sense when he's trying to argue for LeBron, who literally couldn't have won any titles with a sidekick or two that were just as good as Pippen.

But I get it, you go out of your way to argue with me about everything, so you had to find some angle to jump in on this.

I saw Jordan's career, and I saw LeBron's career. Totally different players. Totally different era's. Jordan was the smaller, shorter player in the tougher, slower paced half court era. LeBron was the bigger, taller player in the less physical, faster paced era. Its far more impressive to me that Jordan dominated an era that was not tailored for a player of his stature.

Besides all that, Jordan had a different mindset. He was a cold blooded killer. He slept 3 hours a night and was so competitive that he gambled constantly when he wasn't playing basketball. He imagined up slights to light a fire. He never took a night off from giving it all he had. He viewed opponents as enemies. Once he built himself up physically to beat the Pistons, he was essentially unbeatable after that.

Kobe was similar to Jordan in those ways, but LeBron has never been that guy. To me, being the greatest ever is a lot more than just being ultra consistent and piling up numbers. LeBron's career is incredibly impressive, and he's going to retire with an amazing stat sheet, but the argument of LeBron or Jordan was decided years ago. 4-6 in the Finals just removes him from that conversation.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Bron took a bad Cavs team to a finals. To say he doesnt elevate his players is ridiculous. The difference with the teams hes won on, he had help. Just like every single modern NBA player that won a title.

MJ isnt winning without Pippen, and guys like Rodman, Grant, Kerr, etc.. Its not Brons fault that the Cavs horrible front office couldnt get him help like Jordan, Kobe, Duncan, and other greats got.

Bron was still the best player in Miami and Clevland, and even now at 35 hes still the best player. I expect these arguments from jiks, sac, monster, and tjd.

You're better than this.

Where did I say he didn't elevate his teammates? I literally never said that.

You just took 4ML's argument against Jordan and then just applied it to my argument against LeBron.

The entire thing started with 4ML saying Jordan was nothing without Pippen, which makes no sense when he's trying to argue for LeBron, who literally couldn't have won any titles with a sidekick or two that were just as good as Pippen.

But I get it, you go out of your way to argue with me about everything, so you had to find some angle to jump in on this.

You literally said, "when did Bron ever elevate a team by himself". Wtf lol

Originally posted by Niners99:

Where did I say he didn't elevate his teammates? I literally never said that.

You just took 4ML's argument against Jordan and then just applied it to my argument against LeBron.

The entire thing started with 4ML saying Jordan was nothing without Pippen, which makes no sense when he's trying to argue for LeBron, who literally couldn't have won any titles with a sidekick or two that were just as good as Pippen.

But I get it, you go out of your way to argue with me about everything, so you had to find some angle to jump in on this.

I didn't saying he was nothing without Pippen. I'm just saying he never won a regular season or a playoff series without Pippen. He was still an all time great player.

I mean, didn't Jordan's infomercial pretty much started with:

"He helped me so much in the way I approached the game, in the way I played the game. Whenever they speak Michael Jordan, they should speak Scottie Pippen," Jordan stated. "I didn't win without Pippen. And that's why I consider him my best teammate of all time."

- Jordan

Wade recently explained why it doesn't matter who is the GOAT because we will never see another LeBron James or another Michael Jordan and we should really appreciate the things we witnessed with MJ and what we're witnessing with Bron now.

"When we talk about the GOAT conversations, it doesn't matter who is the GOAT. He (James) is one-of-one, we will never see another him, we will never see another Lebron, we will never see another Jordan, we will never see another Kareem."

"I just want to enjoy watching and I told LeBron this; this is the first time I've ever watched you as a real fan. This is the first time I've watched him as a total fan and I texted him, I said 'bro, you're f—ing good," like he's an animal; he's one of the best basketball players that's ever played the game because of the way he plays the game. You know not many players have ever played the game the way he does it and it's just special to watch."

Couldn't agree more.

^ you are the one cramming the Lebron = GOAT down our throats though while, getting in little shots at Jordan's legacy at the same time

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

^ you are the one cramming the Lebron = GOAT down our throats though while, getting in little shots at Jordan's legacy at the same time

lol not at all. I'm only responding to ppl who think Lebron is not even in the conversation. You got that ass backwards.

Never took a shot at Jordan. One of the greatest scorers of all time and one of the 3 greatest players of all time.