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Greatest UFC Fighter of All-Time

Greatest UFC Fighter of All-Time

  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 54,167
Originally posted by fortyninerglory:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by JBrack:
Exactly you are 5'5. Im 6'1. The leg length is key here, particularly the length of the upper leg and Thigh area. The longer the span of the leg the the bigger the hole you have the opponent in.

And you say I never rolled? Bro thats day one s**t Mr. roller. Lol, obviously you don't know what you claim to know.

He is me freind not my master. I just call him John. Lol

Leg length has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with a triangle. The only time leg length has come into play is when I roll with opponents 230-250 pounds and I can't put them in my close guard. Other than that I triangle these guys on the daily. And I'm talking Gi and No-Gi.

Please stop and your friend is no master because if he is he must be a red belt. Other than that it's professor.

Can I ask you this what are the two things you are not suppose to do when applying an Arm bar?

Here's another BJJ basic question.

When you have someone in your guard what are you suppose to do at all times. And this is a white belt question btw. Lol

Let me take a crack and I have never done MMA before...arm bar question -- don't exert all your energy and try and break someone's arm. Focus on technique and be patient.

in guard -- wrist control as much as possible and stay loose in your hips?

Sorry forty, but that's incorrect. Nice try though.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by JBrack:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Leg length has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with a triangle. The only time leg length has come into play is when I roll with opponents 230-250 pounds and I can't put them in my close guard. Other than that I triangle these guys on the daily. And I'm talking Gi and No-Gi.

Please stop and your friend is no master because if he is he must be a red belt. Other than that it's professor.

Can I ask you this what are the two things you are not suppose to do when applying an Arm bar?

Here's another BJJ basic question.

When you have someone in your guard what are you suppose to do at all times. And this is a white belt question btw. Lol

Your questions are dependent on what your opponent is doing. And I honestly don't care what your teacher teaches you because he obviously isn't telling you the truth. Either that or you fail to understand it. But to tell me leg length has nothing to do with a triangle is absurd. You dont even know that the bigger men help you. Closing up a triangle on skinny people is whats hard with long legs.

Where do you train at again or where did you train at again?

Btw you didn't answer my two fundamental questions I asked? lol

As soon as you adress what I have said I will adress what you have said. You talk about Jed but I'll be damned if he isn't right. You pick new arguments because you were wrong on the old ones. But you fail to make a valid point when you do that.

If you want to argue ill just leave the discussion. If you want to discuss and share knowledge and techniques Id be happy to debate with you.

But don't act like you know something I dont because you dont.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by fortyninerglory:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by JBrack:
Exactly you are 5'5. Im 6'1. The leg length is key here, particularly the length of the upper leg and Thigh area. The longer the span of the leg the the bigger the hole you have the opponent in.

And you say I never rolled? Bro thats day one s**t Mr. roller. Lol, obviously you don't know what you claim to know.

He is me freind not my master. I just call him John. Lol

Leg length has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with a triangle. The only time leg length has come into play is when I roll with opponents 230-250 pounds and I can't put them in my close guard. Other than that I triangle these guys on the daily. And I'm talking Gi and No-Gi.

Please stop and your friend is no master because if he is he must be a red belt. Other than that it's professor.

Can I ask you this what are the two things you are not suppose to do when applying an Arm bar?

Here's another BJJ basic question.

When you have someone in your guard what are you suppose to do at all times. And this is a white belt question btw. Lol

Let me take a crack and I have never done MMA before...arm bar question -- don't exert all your energy and try and break someone's arm. Focus on technique and be patient.

in guard -- wrist control as much as possible and stay loose in your hips?

Sorry forty, but that's incorrect. Nice try though.

The first rule is always protect yourself and maintain guard control. Whether on top or bottom. If anyone was taught different then you were taught wrong!

Do you want a list of does and donts? Its pretty elementary though.
[ Edited by JBrack on Feb 16, 2017 at 8:09 PM ]
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jedediahyork:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jedediahyork:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jedediahyork:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jedediahyork:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jedediahyork:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jedediahyork:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
What are you even arguing jedediah? I think you're farther than the point of my post' than ever. lol

My main point to my arguments have been:

1. Would prime Royce Gracie win in today's UFC?

2. Would present Royce Gracie win in today's UFC?

It seems like your post took a left turn somewhere and got lost. lol

What turn? I'm saying the exact same thing I've been saying the entire time.

You don't seem to understand that prepping for and winning a tournament is much harder than prepping for and winning a single fight. You prep for a single fight, you get to study hours of film, plan your fight to counter your opponents strengths, etc... You can't do that in a tournament because you don't know who you're fighting...

And doing it with no weight class restrictions, while being the smallest guy in the tournament is even harder. And doing it with no rules against striking certain body parts, or using the gi for leverage, etc is harder than fighting in today's UFC with all the rules and restrictions. And he won the tournament three times.

You can claim it was because nobody knew how to defend his style -- the first time -- but not the second and third time. Ask Ken Shamrock, who trained in BJJ after he got beat the first time, and then got beat again but got called a draw because of -- guess what -- time limit.

Would today's fighters win back then, when they fought multiple times in a day, against opponents they couldn't prepare for? Today's fighters lose 40% of their matches to replacement fighters who haven't even been training for the fight... and that's with more than a month's notice. s**t, who was that dude a few years ago who won the championship as a replacement fighter?

http://www.betmma.tips/ufc_late_replacement_fight_stats.php

Would a 50 year old win in today's UFC? Really?

One of his two losses came when he was 40 years old. The other came when he was 35. Royce in his prime would submit every fighter in today's UFC, no question.

Like I said you're side tracking from what my argument was geared toward. No one is questioning Royce Gracie as a fighter, nowhere in any of my post did I do that.

It's a simple question or questions, would Royce Gracie win in today's UFC. And you keep going on about how Royce had to do this or that, I don't care about any of that, WOULD HE WIN IN TODAY'S UFC!!!!

FYI you were jumping into the conversation between JBrack and I then totally miss the point to our conversation. lol

And you totally just proved you're arguing without even reading the post, since I answered you.

Still unable to answer the question directly without beating around the bush.

My reason for not replying to all that you've mentioned, again that's not what I'm arguing against. It' like you post other things to avoid my question, hoping I'm gonna somehow take things outta context and argue a different angle.

Here let me repeat this for you one last time before I choose to move on with my life.

Would Royce Gracie win in today's UFC?

or

Would a Royce Gracie in his prime win in today's UFC?

I've answered and refuted that question. What say you?

I literally answered you, in a very straightforward way. Perhaps read the whole post.

Perhaps keep avoiding the question.

Not sure what's so hard in answering it instead of continuing to post things like this.

Again, read the post. Hell, you don't even have to read the entire post, just the last part of it. I answered both your questions, very directly. Not so sure whats so hard about reading the post. You quoted it, the least you can do is read it.

And I'm telling you that your post has nothing to do with my question/s.

Do me a favor and can you put it in bold black letters on the point you're trying to make, that's all I ask?

You can go ahead and tease me about reading comprehension all you want, but just do that for me and let's see if you did in fact answer it. Thanks in advance.

Stubborn mule, you are. All you had to do was read it.

It's funny, because even though I don't think a 50 year old man would be very successful in today's UFC, he fought Ken Shamrock in 2016, and won by TKO.

Lol at fighting Ken Shamrock. The question was would a Royce in his prime win in today's UFC?

Not would he win in a Senior citizens bout. Lol

You asked two questions. One was whether Royce would win today, i.e. a 50 year old man.

Would Royce Gracie win in today's UFC?

or

Would a Royce Gracie in his prime win in today's UFC?

Yes I did, notice where it says the letters 'U' 'F' 'C'.

Well that fight with Shamrock was neither, a fighter in the UFC nor was that fight in the UFC.

So we can both assume the answer to both of the questions asked is NO!!!

Now was that so hard.lol

You still didn't answer my question... would a fighter in today's UFC win three UFC tournaments? Two? One?

Statistics says no. A 40% chance of losing a single fight against a replacement fighter who didn't train to fight them means they would lose 1 out of 4 matches in a tournament... which would mean they'd lose the tournament.

Yet the smallest guy in those tournaments dominated for, what, 5 years?

"They didn't know how to fight against a submission specialist" even though all the other fighting leagues allowed submissions... even the standup leagues.
[ Edited by jedediahyork on Feb 16, 2017 at 8:24 PM ]
Originally posted by jedediahyork:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jedediahyork:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jedediahyork:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jedediahyork:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jedediahyork:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jedediahyork:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jedediahyork:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
What are you even arguing jedediah? I think you're farther than the point of my post' than ever. lol

My main point to my arguments have been:

1. Would prime Royce Gracie win in today's UFC?

2. Would present Royce Gracie win in today's UFC?

It seems like your post took a left turn somewhere and got lost. lol

What turn? I'm saying the exact same thing I've been saying the entire time.

You don't seem to understand that prepping for and winning a tournament is much harder than prepping for and winning a single fight. You prep for a single fight, you get to study hours of film, plan your fight to counter your opponents strengths, etc... You can't do that in a tournament because you don't know who you're fighting...

And doing it with no weight class restrictions, while being the smallest guy in the tournament is even harder. And doing it with no rules against striking certain body parts, or using the gi for leverage, etc is harder than fighting in today's UFC with all the rules and restrictions. And he won the tournament three times.

You can claim it was because nobody knew how to defend his style -- the first time -- but not the second and third time. Ask Ken Shamrock, who trained in BJJ after he got beat the first time, and then got beat again but got called a draw because of -- guess what -- time limit.

Would today's fighters win back then, when they fought multiple times in a day, against opponents they couldn't prepare for? Today's fighters lose 40% of their matches to replacement fighters who haven't even been training for the fight... and that's with more than a month's notice. s**t, who was that dude a few years ago who won the championship as a replacement fighter?

http://www.betmma.tips/ufc_late_replacement_fight_stats.php

Would a 50 year old win in today's UFC? Really?

One of his two losses came when he was 40 years old. The other came when he was 35. Royce in his prime would submit every fighter in today's UFC, no question.

Like I said you're side tracking from what my argument was geared toward. No one is questioning Royce Gracie as a fighter, nowhere in any of my post did I do that.

It's a simple question or questions, would Royce Gracie win in today's UFC. And you keep going on about how Royce had to do this or that, I don't care about any of that, WOULD HE WIN IN TODAY'S UFC!!!!

FYI you were jumping into the conversation between JBrack and I then totally miss the point to our conversation. lol

And you totally just proved you're arguing without even reading the post, since I answered you.

Still unable to answer the question directly without beating around the bush.

My reason for not replying to all that you've mentioned, again that's not what I'm arguing against. It' like you post other things to avoid my question, hoping I'm gonna somehow take things outta context and argue a different angle.

Here let me repeat this for you one last time before I choose to move on with my life.

Would Royce Gracie win in today's UFC?

or

Would a Royce Gracie in his prime win in today's UFC?

I've answered and refuted that question. What say you?

I literally answered you, in a very straightforward way. Perhaps read the whole post.

Perhaps keep avoiding the question.

Not sure what's so hard in answering it instead of continuing to post things like this.

Again, read the post. Hell, you don't even have to read the entire post, just the last part of it. I answered both your questions, very directly. Not so sure whats so hard about reading the post. You quoted it, the least you can do is read it.

And I'm telling you that your post has nothing to do with my question/s.

Do me a favor and can you put it in bold black letters on the point you're trying to make, that's all I ask?

You can go ahead and tease me about reading comprehension all you want, but just do that for me and let's see if you did in fact answer it. Thanks in advance.

Stubborn mule, you are. All you had to do was read it.

It's funny, because even though I don't think a 50 year old man would be very successful in today's UFC, he fought Ken Shamrock in 2016, and won by TKO.

Lol at fighting Ken Shamrock. The question was would a Royce in his prime win in today's UFC?

Not would he win in a Senior citizens bout. Lol

You asked two questions. One was whether Royce would win today, i.e. a 50 year old man.

Would Royce Gracie win in today's UFC?

or

Would a Royce Gracie in his prime win in today's UFC?

Yes I did, notice where it says the letters 'U' 'F' 'C'.

Well that fight with Shamrock was neither, a fighter in the UFC nor was that fight in the UFC.

So we can both assume the answer to both of the questions asked is NO!!!

Now was that so hard.lol

You still didn't answer my question... would a fighter in today's UFC win three UFC tournaments? Two? One?

Statistics says no. A 40% chance of losing a single fight against a replacement fighter who didn't train to fight them means they would lose 1 out of 4 matches in a tournament... which would mean they'd lose the tournament.

This guy supposedly rolls but he doesn't think its good enough to win based on his own comments. So why does he choose to indulge in such an outdated style?

Things that make you go hmmmm.
Originally posted by JBrack:
This guy supposedly rolls but he doesn't think its good enough to win based on his own comments. So why does he choose to indulge in such an outdated style?

Things that make you go hmmmm.

I don't know if he does or doesn't, my only experience with that kind of stuff was 4 years of wrestling in high school, and a brown belt in Karate. I used to wrestle two classes above my weight because I was better than our guy in that weight class. I was not better than my opponents in that weight class... f**king hard to grapple with someone whose got 20-30 pounds on you. But when I wrestled in my weight class during the tournaments, I placed, and was a state alternate my senior year.
[ Edited by jedediahyork on Feb 16, 2017 at 8:29 PM ]
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 54,167
Originally posted by JBrack:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by fortyninerglory:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by JBrack:
Exactly you are 5'5. Im 6'1. The leg length is key here, particularly the length of the upper leg and Thigh area. The longer the span of the leg the the bigger the hole you have the opponent in.

And you say I never rolled? Bro thats day one s**t Mr. roller. Lol, obviously you don't know what you claim to know.

He is me freind not my master. I just call him John. Lol

Leg length has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with a triangle. The only time leg length has come into play is when I roll with opponents 230-250 pounds and I can't put them in my close guard. Other than that I triangle these guys on the daily. And I'm talking Gi and No-Gi.

Please stop and your friend is no master because if he is he must be a red belt. Other than that it's professor.

Can I ask you this what are the two things you are not suppose to do when applying an Arm bar?

Here's another BJJ basic question.

When you have someone in your guard what are you suppose to do at all times. And this is a white belt question btw. Lol

Let me take a crack and I have never done MMA before...arm bar question -- don't exert all your energy and try and break someone's arm. Focus on technique and be patient.

in guard -- wrist control as much as possible and stay loose in your hips?

Sorry forty, but that's incorrect. Nice try though.

The first rule is always protect yourself and maintain guard control. Whether on top or bottom. If anyone was taught different then you were taught wrong!

Do you want a list of does and donts? Its pretty elementary though.

Lol I forgot there is google for you.

But you're half right, how do you do that though?

I'll wait while google loads. lol

How about the arm bar?
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 54,167
Originally posted by JBrack:
Originally posted by jedediahyork:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jedediahyork:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jedediahyork:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jedediahyork:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jedediahyork:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jedediahyork:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by jedediahyork:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
What are you even arguing jedediah? I think you're farther than the point of my post' than ever. lol

My main point to my arguments have been:

1. Would prime Royce Gracie win in today's UFC?

2. Would present Royce Gracie win in today's UFC?

It seems like your post took a left turn somewhere and got lost. lol

What turn? I'm saying the exact same thing I've been saying the entire time.

You don't seem to understand that prepping for and winning a tournament is much harder than prepping for and winning a single fight. You prep for a single fight, you get to study hours of film, plan your fight to counter your opponents strengths, etc... You can't do that in a tournament because you don't know who you're fighting...

And doing it with no weight class restrictions, while being the smallest guy in the tournament is even harder. And doing it with no rules against striking certain body parts, or using the gi for leverage, etc is harder than fighting in today's UFC with all the rules and restrictions. And he won the tournament three times.

You can claim it was because nobody knew how to defend his style -- the first time -- but not the second and third time. Ask Ken Shamrock, who trained in BJJ after he got beat the first time, and then got beat again but got called a draw because of -- guess what -- time limit.

Would today's fighters win back then, when they fought multiple times in a day, against opponents they couldn't prepare for? Today's fighters lose 40% of their matches to replacement fighters who haven't even been training for the fight... and that's with more than a month's notice. s**t, who was that dude a few years ago who won the championship as a replacement fighter?

http://www.betmma.tips/ufc_late_replacement_fight_stats.php

Would a 50 year old win in today's UFC? Really?

One of his two losses came when he was 40 years old. The other came when he was 35. Royce in his prime would submit every fighter in today's UFC, no question.

Like I said you're side tracking from what my argument was geared toward. No one is questioning Royce Gracie as a fighter, nowhere in any of my post did I do that.

It's a simple question or questions, would Royce Gracie win in today's UFC. And you keep going on about how Royce had to do this or that, I don't care about any of that, WOULD HE WIN IN TODAY'S UFC!!!!

FYI you were jumping into the conversation between JBrack and I then totally miss the point to our conversation. lol

And you totally just proved you're arguing without even reading the post, since I answered you.

Still unable to answer the question directly without beating around the bush.

My reason for not replying to all that you've mentioned, again that's not what I'm arguing against. It' like you post other things to avoid my question, hoping I'm gonna somehow take things outta context and argue a different angle.

Here let me repeat this for you one last time before I choose to move on with my life.

Would Royce Gracie win in today's UFC?

or

Would a Royce Gracie in his prime win in today's UFC?

I've answered and refuted that question. What say you?

I literally answered you, in a very straightforward way. Perhaps read the whole post.

Perhaps keep avoiding the question.

Not sure what's so hard in answering it instead of continuing to post things like this.

Again, read the post. Hell, you don't even have to read the entire post, just the last part of it. I answered both your questions, very directly. Not so sure whats so hard about reading the post. You quoted it, the least you can do is read it.

And I'm telling you that your post has nothing to do with my question/s.

Do me a favor and can you put it in bold black letters on the point you're trying to make, that's all I ask?

You can go ahead and tease me about reading comprehension all you want, but just do that for me and let's see if you did in fact answer it. Thanks in advance.

Stubborn mule, you are. All you had to do was read it.

It's funny, because even though I don't think a 50 year old man would be very successful in today's UFC, he fought Ken Shamrock in 2016, and won by TKO.

Lol at fighting Ken Shamrock. The question was would a Royce in his prime win in today's UFC?

Not would he win in a Senior citizens bout. Lol

You asked two questions. One was whether Royce would win today, i.e. a 50 year old man.

Would Royce Gracie win in today's UFC?

or

Would a Royce Gracie in his prime win in today's UFC?

Yes I did, notice where it says the letters 'U' 'F' 'C'.

Well that fight with Shamrock was neither, a fighter in the UFC nor was that fight in the UFC.

So we can both assume the answer to both of the questions asked is NO!!!

Now was that so hard.lol

You still didn't answer my question... would a fighter in today's UFC win three UFC tournaments? Two? One?

Statistics says no. A 40% chance of losing a single fight against a replacement fighter who didn't train to fight them means they would lose 1 out of 4 matches in a tournament... which would mean they'd lose the tournament.

This guy supposedly rolls but he doesn't think its good enough to win based on his own comments. So why does he choose to indulge in such an outdated style?

Things that make you go hmmmm.

Umm nice try avoiding my post, page 28 post #416

First off it's a fact, you cannot win in today's UFC with just BJJ, see Damien Maia who has been working on his stand up. Second, BJJ has evolved so much since the first UFC 1, that at the same weight of Royce, today's fighter would easily dominate back then. Why, leg and ankle locks are much more easier to pull off now and Gracie wasn't even doing those back then, Shamrock was the only one to set these up and finish. See Frank Mir vs. Brock Lesnar 1. Back then no one knew how to defend BJJ, Shamrock is the closest to ever do it but did he?

Fighters today are far more advanced in striking and on the ground, put someone like Jacare Souza in the UFC back in the 90's and he would own every single fighter including Royce Gracie in his prime.

It's like you guys choose to read and reply to what you want and to further avoid and think objectively. lol

I'll reply to one more, then I think I'll move on with my life.
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 54,167
Originally posted by jedediahyork:
Originally posted by JBrack:
This guy supposedly rolls but he doesn't think its good enough to win based on his own comments. So why does he choose to indulge in such an outdated style?

Things that make you go hmmmm.

I don't know if he does or doesn't, my only experience with that kind of stuff was 4 years of wrestling in high school, and a brown belt in Karate. I used to wrestle two classes above my weight because I was better than our guy in that weight class. I was not better than my opponents in that weight class... f**king hard to grapple with someone whose got 20-30 pounds on you. But when I wrestled in my weight class during the tournaments, I placed, and was a state alternate my senior year.

Wrestling is a bit of a different animal. I rolled with a few wrestlers over the years, they love that single leg lock down and always try to muscle me. Which I could see, since I'm only 135 pounds. One thing with wrestlers though, is that I don't have to break their posture they kind of do it for me by using their head for control. Always suspect to triangles and barataplata's. Hard to Americana or Kimura wrestlers, muther f**kers are so strong.lol But in Gi, I love the butterfly sweep and spider guard, much easier to control the bigger and stronger opponent, you just need to be patient with your timing.

Anyway nice talking with you two, I'm over this thread, I'll go back to speaking my mind about Kaepernick in the QB thread. peace out.

#ShowYourRoll
Interesting, heard on a podcast a ufc fighter compared Ronda to Royce. Saying she is the female version, and a pioneer. And I agree, but Royce was much tougher

If Bisping beats GSP, you gotta add him to the list because he'd be the only guy in UFC to beat both GSP and Spider and also has the most wins in UFC history.
Originally posted by 4everFaithful:
Interesting, heard on a podcast a ufc fighter compared Ronda to Royce. Saying she is the female version, and a pioneer. And I agree, but Royce was much tougher

He made people tap out before even the refs knew what that meant.
  • Cjez
  • Hall of Gaym
  • Posts: 151,232
Originally posted by TheSixthRing:
If Bisping beats GSP, you gotta add him to the list because he'd be the only guy in UFC to beat both GSP and Spider and also has the most wins in UFC history.

definitely. he's a tough SOB too. Dude fought with a detached retina
Originally posted by ChazBoner:
Originally posted by TheSixthRing:
If Bisping beats GSP, you gotta add him to the list because he'd be the only guy in UFC to beat both GSP and Spider and also has the most wins in UFC history.

definitely. he's a tough SOB too. Dude fought with a detached retina

I'll add him to the list if he beats GSP. But did he really beat Silva. The REAL Silva?
Originally posted by 4everFaithful:
Originally posted by ChazBoner:
Originally posted by TheSixthRing:
If Bisping beats GSP, you gotta add him to the list because he'd be the only guy in UFC to beat both GSP and Spider and also has the most wins in UFC history.

definitely. he's a tough SOB too. Dude fought with a detached retina

I'll add him to the list if he beats GSP. But did he really beat Silva. The REAL Silva?

Saved by the bell!



And did he really beat Hendo? Hahahahahahahaha

[ Edited by fortyninerglory on Mar 11, 2017 at 10:42 AM ]
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