2013 NBA Finals thread: San Antonio Spurs vs. Miami Heat | Page 104

Jun 19, 2013 at 10:54 PM

marshulk
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Posts: 45,242

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Originally posted by marshniners24:
I'm just curious I'd like to know the average % of the total team points scored each for Jordan and Lebron in elimination games.

I feel like that one dude that kept trying to make the Kurt thomas argument and every time he talked about it there was some new ridiculous thing he was excluding, but I really want to know that^

Oh man...I'm too lazy to do that. Plus, I don't think Lebron is better than Jordan...not yet, at least.

Yea that's probably too much work but would be interesting haha

Jun 19, 2013 at 10:55 PM

#1547

Pillbusta
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Posts: 23,895

Jordan played in a lot of elimination games. He eliminated his finals opponent 6 times before the 7th contest. Lebron has a chance to climb the hierarchy but he is not there yet. Jordan last elimination game he dropped 45 pts on the road at age 35. He led the league in scoring that year and won the chip. He did this 6 times in his career when others said it could not be done. Lebron has a chance. I root for him but he is not at Jordan level yet

Jun 19, 2013 at 10:59 PM

#1548

tjd808185
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Posts: 26,007

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
Why would you eliminate any years? Jordan played in plenty of elimination games and averaged 31+ pts a game. Lebron averaged a little over than Jordan. The fact that Jordan was a scorer first and Lebron is a play-maker first makes that stat even more eye-popping.

Yes, I've no argument that this roster has weaknesses and they put themselves in holes. That has nothing to do with my point. The point is in response to the fact that ppl think Lebron shrinks in big moments. Facts say the complete opposite of that.

You're judged off team success just as much as individual success. Surrounding talent is no longer an excuse. Lebron is the guy who was talking about 6 or 7 championship rings.

I won't say he shrinks in big moments but he's got more to prove still. He'll always have more to prove because Jordan and Kobe set the bar pretty high. Fact is he played like crap in the Dallas series and fell short. That never happened to Jordan once he hit his peak.

Jun 19, 2013 at 11:00 PM

#1549

Pillbusta
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Posts: 23,895

Penny had knee and microfracture issues. It was not his skill level. Hard to play ball in that state. I wish lebron picked up on his game. Dude dominated handling passing shooting from anywhere on the block in the post at the rim and he did this vs ECF defenses including the bulls with pippen and the heat with Zo

Jun 19, 2013 at 11:01 PM

#1550

Sims84
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Posts: 1,552

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by sacniner:

Originally posted by Joecool:
It's the highest because guys like Jordan didn't put themselves in an elimination game situation.

FYI, Jordan played in 13 elimination games and LBJ's numbers are better in every category.

Ya, that was a pretty weak argument.

LMAO...garbage argument smh but that's typical from the people who just don't appreciate the talent Lebron has and how gifted he truly is

Jun 19, 2013 at 11:02 PM

#1551

4ML
Veteran
Posts: 51,600

Originally posted by marshniners24:

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:

Originally posted by marshniners24:
I'm just curious I'd like to know the average % of the total team points scored each for Jordan and Lebron in elimination games.

I feel like that one dude that kept trying to make the Kurt thomas argument and every time he talked about it there was some new ridiculous thing he was excluding, but I really want to know that^

Oh man...I'm too lazy to do that. Plus, I don't think Lebron is better than Jordan...not yet, at least.

Yea that's probably too much work but would be interesting haha

Yea and I'm tired of this Lebron vs. Jordan. Lebron is 28...there will be time to discuss how he stacks up against Jordan or Kobe or whoever. It's too early right now. Someone said, Lebron is 2nd best of all time and I laugh at that. I'm the biggest Lebron homer (at least on this board) and he isn't even in my top 5 all time.

Jun 19, 2013 at 11:02 PM

#1552

Pillbusta
Veteran
Posts: 23,895

Originally posted by tjd808185:
You're judged off team success just as much as individual success. Surrounding talent is no longer an excuse. Lebron is the guy who was talking about 6 or 7 championship rings.

I won't say he shrinks in big moments but he's got more to prove still. He'll always have more to prove because Jordan and Kobe set the bar pretty high. Fact is he played like crap in the Dallas series and fell short. That never happened to Jordan once he hit his peak.

Lebron is still improving his game. He hasn't peaked yet but I would like to see him play a little more nasty though. More with an edge

Jun 19, 2013 at 11:09 PM

#1553

Joecool
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Posts: 70,984

Thread needs to get back on track or i will start a Kobe vs Lebron vs Jordan thread where duncan beats them all

Cant wait for gametime.

[ Edited by Joecool on Jun 19, 2013 at 11:10 PM ]

Jun 19, 2013 at 11:10 PM

#1554

Sims84
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Posts: 1,552

Originally posted by Baldie:

Originally posted by sacniner:

Originally posted by Joecool:
It's the highest because guys like Jordan didn't put themselves in an elimination game situation.

FYI, Jordan played in 13 elimination games and LBJ's numbers are better in every category.

That was a different time and different league. Jordan won his championships without other superstars on the team. Can't do that now.

No he didn't. Pippen was arguably the 2nd best wing player in the NBA and a top 50 of all time player

Before Pippen came into his own, Jordan never sniffed the finals........ever...

Lebron took a garbage, lottery team without him every season, Cavaliers team to the finals with zero help. Who was the best player next to Lebron that year? Larry freakin Hughes?!?! Are you kidding me??

[ Edited by Sims84 on Jun 19, 2013 at 11:12 PM ]

Jun 19, 2013 at 11:10 PM

#1555

Pillbusta
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Posts: 23,895

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Dude, I've seen the tape, watched him at the time, and no...he wasn't a particularly fundamentally sound player, nor was he smart. He had tremendous physical gifts with his size and athleticism. When that went away due to the knee injury, he was soon out of the league. That's the difference between him and say someone like Grant Hill, who experienced FAR more injuries than Penny did, but Grant was smart enough and skilled enough to stay in the league long after his physical gifts left him. Penny was not. Really good player, but completely out of place in a conversation involving MJ, Kobe, & LeBron.

These whippersnappers shoot 75.3% from the FT line these days, which is almost a full 2 percentage points better than the league shot back in Penny's day. You're remembering things how you want to remember them rather than how they actually happened.

FTs are shot today by centers like Chris bosh and not shaquille O'Neal but I bet you would still take shaq because he knew what to do on the block. All-star voting does not demand true centers nowadays. You have hybrids due to the rule changes the type of athlete entering the league

Jun 19, 2013 at 11:14 PM

#1556

Sims84
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Posts: 1,552

Originally posted by valrod33:
I want the Heat to win but im predicting Spurs in a blowout. Im talking like what the Celtics did to the lakers a few years back.

I've been saying the same thing. Im taking the Heat in a blowout but wouldn't be surprised one bit if it's the Spurs in a blowout victory. Either way, someone is getting beat by double digits in game 7

Jun 19, 2013 at 11:15 PM

#1557

Pillbusta
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Posts: 23,895

Originally posted by Sims84:
No he didn't. Pippen was arguably the 2nd best wing player in the NBA and a top 50 of all time player

Before Pippen, Jordan never sniffed the finals........ever...

Lebron took a garbage, lottery team without him every season, Cavaliers team to the finals with zero help. Who was the best player next to Lebron that year? Larry freakin Hughes?!?! Are you kidding me??

Might not have been an all-star team to some but they had excellent defenders. 1 - 4 Harper Jordan pippen rodman and the 3 headed monster at center. You could not score on them and 1 - 4 they out rebounded their opponent. 3 were HOFer so Jordan had elite help though of the defensive variety

Jun 19, 2013 at 11:19 PM

#1558

Pillbusta
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Posts: 23,895

Heat will win because they have a better defense and better closers. Heat role players will come through and lebron gets his second. Parker won't beat lebron and Duncan won't beast again. Heat at home and they will win

Jun 19, 2013 at 11:20 PM

#1559

Sims84
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Posts: 1,552

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Baldie:

Originally posted by sacniner:

Originally posted by Joecool:
It's the highest because guys like Jordan didn't put themselves in an elimination game situation.

FYI, Jordan played in 13 elimination games and LBJ's numbers are better in every category.

That was a different time and different league. Jordan won his championships without other superstars on the team. Can't do that now.

Yeah Pippen and Rodman were no good. And Phil Jackson coaching was just garbage. And all the 3 point bombers they had were horrible. You are right. He was all on his own.

Anyone who doesn't think Pippen wasn't great is clueless. That guy was like a poor-man's Lebron... great defender, passer, dunker, and passer... revisionist history buffs

I agree with you , but I also don't think Pippen would have developed as well as he did had it not been for older brother (MJ) beating on him in practice.

Many players from the MJ teams played on other teams, but many never panned out to be as good with MJ not along side.

Same can be said about anyone who played with Lebron in Cleveland and the role players that play with him in Miami. Wade a career year. Bosh had a down year but that was expected from the beginning. Chalmers just has to sit in the corner and shoot, Battier, Miller the same thing. Lebron makes everyone around him better

Jun 19, 2013 at 11:23 PM

#1560

Sims84
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Posts: 1,552

Originally posted by SportsFan:

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:

Originally posted by monsterzero789:
lol at the Lebron haters. Dude backpacked his team in the 4th quarter
just sayin...

This. Without that shot, they lose. Plus, Lebron's first three was a brick. Didn't even hit the rim. They got lucky to get the rebound and kick it back out to him and he made it.

Allen doesn't have a chance to talk about this shot without Lebron DOMINATING the Spurs in that 4th QTR and keeping them from being blown out of the gym

Yeah he messed up a couple of possessions down the stretch but Wade wasn't willing to shoot, either was Bosh so Lebron had to force it but all of that is irrelevant as again, the Heat would of been blown out if it wasn't from Lebron's heroics