Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
Your right, I don't give a s**t if they played in a bandbox, as long as it was legal. Voters have long held it against those guys anyways when it comes to all star votes, MVP, etc.
Your right, Bonds doesnt give a s**t so why should I?
And I can appreciate how special Bonds was....I didnt need him to be extra-special. And don't believe for a minute he only rubbed the cream on his bi-Ceps. Lol
I admired Bonds as a player and still appreciate his greatness. But the fact is this... Bonds would not be the All Time or Single Season Homerun leader without PEDS. He never came close to 50 during his pre-roid years. Steroids helped put him at the top and this taints his records.
As for Bonds being the All time HR leader if he played his entire career in Colorado... pure speculation obviously and you could say the same for many players. Willie Mays could have 800 if he didnt play in the toughest park ever for a RH hitter to hit homeruns and miss seasons for the military. Imagine him if he played his career there. Bonds wouldnt have come close to Mays in my opinion. But, unless MLB makes every single park the same dimensions and at the same alttitude ( which is of course impossible) there will always be some advantage.
I have said many times that Bonds lost my respect for his use of roids just like Mac, Sosa, Aroid, Braun, Palmeiro, and the other users have. It doesnt mean I dont think he was an amazing player - perhaps the best of his generation ( although Griffey Jr might still get my vote) because I do. I just will never put him on some pedestal like many still do.
Thats my point though John. Baseball isnt fair in any aspect, so when someone uses PED's, why is that advantage viewed differently to a guy who played at Coors? Both gave extreme advantages. If you look purely at numbers and results, not morality, theyre both providing a major boost.
It all comes down to morals here. Bonds lied to the fans. He gave off the impression that he was doing it naturally, and he wasnt. He never did anything illegal by the terms of the MLB law, and the advantages he gained from steroids was just one of MANY different things a baseball player could, and has benefited from.
You're right, Bonds would not have broken Hank Aaron's record of 755 without PED's. But, excluding the morals of the situation, you could just as easily say that Hank Aaron wouldnt have broken Babe Ruth's record of 714 if he wasnt playing his home games in one of the biggest bandboxes of all time. They both received a boost from something other than their own pure abilities. One was lying to the fans about his advantage, and one was playing with that advantage clear as day. At the end of the day, both were advantages.
I dont think of my opinions as putting Bonds on a pedestal, rather trying to balance all the hate against him towards a level he deserves. He doesnt deserve to have his statistics and impact on the game get erased from the history books. If the consensus opinion on him was fair, with people saying "he was one of the best ever, but also a liar, and came across like such a jerk.", I wouldnt feel any need to defend him. I think people take the hate too far because of the way he came across as a person.
[ Edited by Niners99 on Aug 11, 2013 at 8:03 PM ]
