Poll for NBA fans (crosses fingers.........)

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Lebron > Kobe in the end. He might even be this year. What Laker fans fail to realize is Lebron is still growing and learning and getting better. And he is still a young guy. Kobe had a great run with the most dominant physical center of the era + 1 on his own. But he is getting older and is already injured a lot lately. Time is running out on Kobe. Faster than you think. It will be Lebron's world soon.

He's still growing and getting better? How cute!

Yes as a player he is still developing his game. Jordan for example didn't hit his peak until his late 20's and early 30's. He has a better game than he did 3 or 4 years ago. Even better than 2 years ago.

He's not growing as far as inches. He's already fully grown.

Kobe has peaked out and he's not getting better. The decline has already started. Bad back, bad finger, and fragile all the time. He can't even stay healthy anymore. His days at the top are numbered.

Originally posted by 9erReign:

Originally posted by crzy:
Lebron is on another level than Kobe Bryant. He has been for years now. There has never been a physical specimen like Lebron James in the history of humanity. Someone that big, and that fast, with that level of coordination and finesse.

This. It isn't a competition. Kobe did as much as he could with his physical tools. LeBron just has a major advantage over him.

Kobe only has 1 title, btw. Saying he has 4 is like saying Robery Horry has 7 so he is better than Jordan. I think you need to be the best player on the team in order to claim the title as yours in these types of arguments.[/quote]

I agree.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Lebron > Kobe in the end. He might even be this year. What Laker fans fail to realize is Lebron is still growing and learning and getting better. And he is still a young guy. Kobe had a great run with the most dominant physical center of the era + 1 on his own. But he is getting older and is already injured a lot lately. Time is running out on Kobe. Faster than you think. It will be Lebron's world soon.

He's still growing and getting better? How cute!

Yes as a player he is still developing his game. Jordan for example didn't hit his peak until his late 20's and early 30's. He has a better game than he did 3 or 4 years ago. Even better than 2 years ago.

He's not growing as far as inches. He's already fully grown.

Kobe has peaked out and he's not getting better. The decline has already started. Bad back, bad finger, and fragile all the time. He can't even stay healthy anymore. His days at the top are numbered.

Of course Kobe's peaked. He's 31.

But please, SanDiego. With your VAST basketball knowledge that you've exhibited over the years, please regale us with the various aspects of LeBron's game that he's in the midst of improving.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Lebron > Kobe in the end. He might even be this year. What Laker fans fail to realize is Lebron is still growing and learning and getting better. And he is still a young guy. Kobe had a great run with the most dominant physical center of the era + 1 on his own. But he is getting older and is already injured a lot lately. Time is running out on Kobe. Faster than you think. It will be Lebron's world soon.

He's still growing and getting better? How cute!

Yes as a player he is still developing his game. Jordan for example didn't hit his peak until his late 20's and early 30's. He has a better game than he did 3 or 4 years ago. Even better than 2 years ago.

He's not growing as far as inches. He's already fully grown.

Kobe has peaked out and he's not getting better. The decline has already started. Bad back, bad finger, and fragile all the time. He can't even stay healthy anymore. His days at the top are numbered.

Of course Kobe's peaked. He's 31.

But please, SanDiego. With your VAST basketball knowledge that you've exhibited over the years, please regale us with the various aspects of LeBron's game that he's in the midst of improving.

His outside shot is a little better than it used to be. Not as good as Kobe. But he doesn't need to be. Lebron's game is to drive in. His passing has always been good but you could make the arguement that Lebron is a better passer now as well at key points in the game. He's not afraid to pass and involve his teamates.

Mainly his outside shot is a little better. It still could get better. But he's not just a purely drive in guy anymore.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by 9erReign:

Originally posted by crzy:
Lebron is on another level than Kobe Bryant. He has been for years now. There has never been a physical specimen like Lebron James in the history of humanity. Someone that big, and that fast, with that level of coordination and finesse.

This. It isn't a competition. Kobe did as much as he could with his physical tools. LeBron just has a major advantage over him.

Kobe only has 1 title, btw. Saying he has 4 is like saying Robery Horry has 7 so he is better than Jordan. I think you need to be the best player on the team in order to claim the title as yours in these types of arguments.[/quote]

I agree.

What a joke. You guys truly embarrass yourselves with comments like this. LA has non of their 3-peat titles without Kobe. Not even close.

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by 9erReign:

Originally posted by crzy:
Lebron is on another level than Kobe Bryant. He has been for years now. There has never been a physical specimen like Lebron James in the history of humanity. Someone that big, and that fast, with that level of coordination and finesse.

This. It isn't a competition. Kobe did as much as he could with his physical tools. LeBron just has a major advantage over him.

Kobe only has 1 title, btw. Saying he has 4 is like saying Robery Horry has 7 so he is better than Jordan. I think you need to be the best player on the team in order to claim the title as yours in these types of arguments.[/quote]

I agree.

What a joke. You guys truly embarrass yourselves with comments like this. LA has non of their 3-peat titles without Kobe. Not even close.

Kobe also has none of those 3 without Shaq in his prime.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by 9erReign:

Originally posted by crzy:
Lebron is on another level than Kobe Bryant. He has been for years now. There has never been a physical specimen like Lebron James in the history of humanity. Someone that big, and that fast, with that level of coordination and finesse.

This. It isn't a competition. Kobe did as much as he could with his physical tools. LeBron just has a major advantage over him.

Kobe only has 1 title, btw. Saying he has 4 is like saying Robery Horry has 7 so he is better than Jordan. I think you need to be the best player on the team in order to claim the title as yours in these types of arguments.[/quote]

I agree.

What a joke. You guys truly embarrass yourselves with comments like this. LA has non of their 3-peat titles without Kobe. Not even close.

Kobe also has none of those 3 without Shaq in his prime.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by 9erReign:

Originally posted by crzy:
Lebron is on another level than Kobe Bryant. He has been for years now. There has never been a physical specimen like Lebron James in the history of humanity. Someone that big, and that fast, with that level of coordination and finesse.

This. It isn't a competition. Kobe did as much as he could with his physical tools. LeBron just has a major advantage over him.

Kobe only has 1 title, btw. Saying he has 4 is like saying Robery Horry has 7 so he is better than Jordan. I think you need to be the best player on the team in order to claim the title as yours in these types of arguments.[/quote]

I agree.

What a joke. You guys truly embarrass yourselves with comments like this. LA has non of their 3-peat titles without Kobe. Not even close.

Kobe also has none of those 3 without Shaq in his prime.

And Jordan doesn't have any without Pippen, The Dream doesn't have any without Drexler, and so on and so on. Your feeble attempt at discrediting has failed you.


Get a clue kid, and stick to bashing in NT.

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by 9erReign:

Originally posted by crzy:
Lebron is on another level than Kobe Bryant. He has been for years now. There has never been a physical specimen like Lebron James in the history of humanity. Someone that big, and that fast, with that level of coordination and finesse.

This. It isn't a competition. Kobe did as much as he could with his physical tools. LeBron just has a major advantage over him.

Kobe only has 1 title, btw. Saying he has 4 is like saying Robery Horry has 7 so he is better than Jordan. I think you need to be the best player on the team in order to claim the title as yours in these types of arguments.[/quote]

I agree.

What a joke. You guys truly embarrass yourselves with comments like this. LA has non of their 3-peat titles without Kobe. Not even close.

Kobe also has none of those 3 without Shaq in his prime.

And Jordan doesn't have any without Pippen, The Dream doesn't have any without Drexler, and so on and so on. Your feeble attempt at discrediting has failed you.


Get a clue kid, and stick to bashing in NT.

Actually Drexler was not acquired until Feb 14 during the 2nd championship run, look at the roster for the first run and it's Dream and basically role players, Horry the most recognizable name. Now if you want to say, pretty much nobody wins without Horry, I;'m cool with that.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Lebron > Kobe in the end. He might even be this year. What Laker fans fail to realize is Lebron is still growing and learning and getting better. And he is still a young guy. Kobe had a great run with the most dominant physical center of the era + 1 on his own. But he is getting older and is already injured a lot lately. Time is running out on Kobe. Faster than you think. It will be Lebron's world soon.

He's still growing and getting better? How cute!

Yes as a player he is still developing his game. Jordan for example didn't hit his peak until his late 20's and early 30's. He has a better game than he did 3 or 4 years ago. Even better than 2 years ago.

He's not growing as far as inches. He's already fully grown.

Kobe has peaked out and he's not getting better. The decline has already started. Bad back, bad finger, and fragile all the time. He can't even stay healthy anymore. His days at the top are numbered.

For as fragile as he's gotten, he is yet to miss a single game. If Lebron had a bad back and 2 jacked up fingers he probably wouldn't play because he wouldn't be able to complete his weak-ass powder throwing pre-game routine. Earlier in the year when Gasol was out he was absolutely killing it......run away MVP. It was only until he got hurt the second time that his shooting went off and now everyone is once again on LBJ's nuts. These are facts gentleman.

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by dobophile:

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by 9erReign:

Originally posted by crzy:
Lebron is on another level than Kobe Bryant. He has been for years now. There has never been a physical specimen like Lebron James in the history of humanity. Someone that big, and that fast, with that level of coordination and finesse.

This. It isn't a competition. Kobe did as much as he could with his physical tools. LeBron just has a major advantage over him.

Kobe only has 1 title, btw. Saying he has 4 is like saying Robery Horry has 7 so he is better than Jordan. I think you need to be the best player on the team in order to claim the title as yours in these types of arguments.[/quote]

I agree.

What a joke. You guys truly embarrass yourselves with comments like this. LA has non of their 3-peat titles without Kobe. Not even close.

Kobe also has none of those 3 without Shaq in his prime.

And Jordan doesn't have any without Pippen, The Dream doesn't have any without Drexler, and so on and so on. Your feeble attempt at discrediting has failed you.


Get a clue kid, and stick to bashing in NT.

Pure ownage!

Not really. Dream won without Drexler.

This all comes down to opinion. Personally, I think basketball is a big man's game. Great championship teams are almost always led by the likes of Shaq or Duncan or Dream or . . . etc. Their are occasional exceptions---MJ's 6 titles without a good big man immediately springs to mind---but that's my general opinion.

The Lakers were Shaq's team the whole time he was there. The 2009 title was an MJ-esque victory for Kobe---but it has to be noted that Pau Gasol is no Bill Cartwright/Will Perdue slouch.

Regarding the Kobe-Lebron comparisons: if you could create a player with (1) Kobe's skills and polish and (2) Lebron's size and athleticism, you would have the best basketball player of all time. They're both incredible, for different reasons.

Horace Grant, Dennis Rodman?

MJ had plenty of help around him. As did The Dream with Maxwell, Horry, and Thorpe.

The point is, every great player has needed another great player or great team to win a championship. It's pure ignorance to discard any of Kobe's championships because Shaq was around. Go on down the line, all the greats had greats around them when they won. Kobe is the only player who gets discredited for his championships while all others get positive recognition for being champions. It's just silly the ways people try to illogically tear down Kobe. And for the record, Kobe was much more than a mere sidekick. He was as big a part of those championships as Shaq was.

Not to go off topic here, but Dream hardly had what anyone would consider greats compared with those listed for the other teams. Good role players, but not greats. Houston won those 2 years because Dream was unstoppable in every way and they had a different guy hit 3s every night. Horry was a rookie and basically just a dunker then. I would bet the average fan couldn't name anyone on that first team beside Dream. None of the other guys can say that.

Originally posted by TX9R:

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by dobophile:

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by 9erReign:

Originally posted by crzy:
Lebron is on another level than Kobe Bryant. He has been for years now. There has never been a physical specimen like Lebron James in the history of humanity. Someone that big, and that fast, with that level of coordination and finesse.

This. It isn't a competition. Kobe did as much as he could with his physical tools. LeBron just has a major advantage over him.

Kobe only has 1 title, btw. Saying he has 4 is like saying Robery Horry has 7 so he is better than Jordan. I think you need to be the best player on the team in order to claim the title as yours in these types of arguments.[/quote]

I agree.

What a joke. You guys truly embarrass yourselves with comments like this. LA has non of their 3-peat titles without Kobe. Not even close.

Kobe also has none of those 3 without Shaq in his prime.

And Jordan doesn't have any without Pippen, The Dream doesn't have any without Drexler, and so on and so on. Your feeble attempt at discrediting has failed you.


Get a clue kid, and stick to bashing in NT.

Pure ownage!

Not really. Dream won without Drexler.

This all comes down to opinion. Personally, I think basketball is a big man's game. Great championship teams are almost always led by the likes of Shaq or Duncan or Dream or . . . etc. Their are occasional exceptions---MJ's 6 titles without a good big man immediately springs to mind---but that's my general opinion.

The Lakers were Shaq's team the whole time he was there. The 2009 title was an MJ-esque victory for Kobe---but it has to be noted that Pau Gasol is no Bill Cartwright/Will Perdue slouch.

Regarding the Kobe-Lebron comparisons: if you could create a player with (1) Kobe's skills and polish and (2) Lebron's size and athleticism, you would have the best basketball player of all time. They're both incredible, for different reasons.

Horace Grant, Dennis Rodman?

MJ had plenty of help around him. As did The Dream with Maxwell, Horry, and Thorpe.

The point is, every great player has needed another great player or great team to win a championship. It's pure ignorance to discard any of Kobe's championships because Shaq was around. Go on down the line, all the greats had greats around them when they won. Kobe is the only player who gets discredited for his championships while all others get positive recognition for being champions. It's just silly the ways people try to illogically tear down Kobe. And for the record, Kobe was much more than a mere sidekick. He was as big a part of those championships as Shaq was.

Not to go off topic here, but Dream hardly had what anyone would consider greats compared with those listed for the other teams. Good role players, but not greats. Houston won those 2 years because Dream was unstoppable in every way and they had a different guy hit 3s every night. Horry was a rookie and basically just a dunker then. I would bet the average fan couldn't name anyone on that first team beside Dream. None of the other guys can say that.

Not to discredit him, but I could make the argument that it was a really watered down league those 2 years Jordan was suspended (Yes, suspended for gambling). Making that argument is the same as discrediting Kobe because OMG he had another great player playing with him. I get what you're saying in the last 30 years he's the only one without another star next to him....that and the 04-05 Pistons who had a lot of really just "good" guys. Hakeem killed it those 2 years and dominated everybody. The point is you can make arguments about anybody for any reason some of the unfounded and others not. I guess we should take away the Spurs first championship too because it came during a 50 game season.

If LeBron can win two titles in the next 10 years, then that's big ups on my book, and would put him on equal footing with Kobe if his play stays the same or improves.

If LeBron wins two titles and takes his team deep in the playoffs year in and year out, then I might even give the edge to King James. Kobe's teams have had some off years.

I give props to Kobe in his accomplishments but you can't dismiss that Shaq had a little something to do with Kobe having 4 rings.

Actually he had A LOT to do with it, he's only the most physically dominating player the NBA has ever seen!!!

Originally posted by JDeezy:

Originally posted by TX9R:

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by dobophile:

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by 9erReign:

Originally posted by crzy:
Lebron is on another level than Kobe Bryant. He has been for years now. There has never been a physical specimen like Lebron James in the history of humanity. Someone that big, and that fast, with that level of coordination and finesse.

This. It isn't a competition. Kobe did as much as he could with his physical tools. LeBron just has a major advantage over him.

Kobe only has 1 title, btw. Saying he has 4 is like saying Robery Horry has 7 so he is better than Jordan. I think you need to be the best player on the team in order to claim the title as yours in these types of arguments.[/quote]

I agree.

What a joke. You guys truly embarrass yourselves with comments like this. LA has non of their 3-peat titles without Kobe. Not even close.

Kobe also has none of those 3 without Shaq in his prime.

And Jordan doesn't have any without Pippen, The Dream doesn't have any without Drexler, and so on and so on. Your feeble attempt at discrediting has failed you.


Get a clue kid, and stick to bashing in NT.

Pure ownage!

Not really. Dream won without Drexler.

This all comes down to opinion. Personally, I think basketball is a big man's game. Great championship teams are almost always led by the likes of Shaq or Duncan or Dream or . . . etc. Their are occasional exceptions---MJ's 6 titles without a good big man immediately springs to mind---but that's my general opinion.

The Lakers were Shaq's team the whole time he was there. The 2009 title was an MJ-esque victory for Kobe---but it has to be noted that Pau Gasol is no Bill Cartwright/Will Perdue slouch.

Regarding the Kobe-Lebron comparisons: if you could create a player with (1) Kobe's skills and polish and (2) Lebron's size and athleticism, you would have the best basketball player of all time. They're both incredible, for different reasons.

Horace Grant, Dennis Rodman?

MJ had plenty of help around him. As did The Dream with Maxwell, Horry, and Thorpe.

The point is, every great player has needed another great player or great team to win a championship. It's pure ignorance to discard any of Kobe's championships because Shaq was around. Go on down the line, all the greats had greats around them when they won. Kobe is the only player who gets discredited for his championships while all others get positive recognition for being champions. It's just silly the ways people try to illogically tear down Kobe. And for the record, Kobe was much more than a mere sidekick. He was as big a part of those championships as Shaq was.

Not to go off topic here, but Dream hardly had what anyone would consider greats compared with those listed for the other teams. Good role players, but not greats. Houston won those 2 years because Dream was unstoppable in every way and they had a different guy hit 3s every night. Horry was a rookie and basically just a dunker then. I would bet the average fan couldn't name anyone on that first team beside Dream. None of the other guys can say that.

Not to discredit him, but I could make the argument that it was a really watered down league those 2 years Jordan was suspended (Yes, suspended for gambling). Making that argument is the same as discrediting Kobe because OMG he had another great player playing with him. I get what you're saying in the last 30 years he's the only one without another star next to him....that and the 04-05 Pistons who had a lot of really just "good" guys. Hakeem killed it those 2 years and dominated everybody. The point is you can make arguments about anybody for any reason some of the unfounded and others not. I guess we should take away the Spurs first championship too because it came during a 50 game season.

I wouldn't make that comparison, players retire all the time and we don't discount rings after the fact. People fail to realize that A) Jordan actually played half a season and playoffs that second year (put 55 on the Knicks, so he wasn't too rusty)and B) other than Pippen it was a completely different team from the one who won rings before and after. That Bulls team was competely retooled on the fly, then went on to win 3 more. I'm convinced even if Jordan had played the whole season, he didn't have the frontcourt needed to go deep in the playoffs.
As far as the Spurs, you maybe could make that argument... if they didn't go on to win multiple championships after the fact with various guys + Duncan.

lol Jordan suspended for gambling