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Greinke wins Cy Young Award

  • SoCold
  • Hall of Dumb
  • Posts: 121,398
So what instead of giving it to the guy with the most wins it goes to the guy with the lowest era?

Verlander tied for the most wins and had the most strikeouts
  • jrg
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 165,890
Originally posted by 9erfan4life:
So what instead of giving it to the guy with the most wins it goes to the guy with the lowest era?

Verlander tied for the most wins and had the most strikeouts

B...bu..but...we have to feel bad for Greinke..he played for the lowly Royals...and he
didn't have the help Verlander had..right?
Originally posted by jrg:
Originally posted by 9erfan4life:
So what instead of giving it to the guy with the most wins it goes to the guy with the lowest era?

Verlander tied for the most wins and had the most strikeouts

B...bu..but...we have to feel bad for Greinke..he played for the lowly Royals...and he
didn't have the help Verlander had..right?

Grienke was the best pitcher in the AL this year, the team he plays for shouldnt be a factor.
Originally posted by jrg:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by jrg:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by jrg:
Originally posted by TheSixthRing:
Originally posted by jrg:
Originally posted by TheSixthRing:
Originally posted by jrg:
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Originally posted by jrg:
Link

Once again you just proved that Lincecum did have the better season.

Just stop it.

Maybe you need to look a little closer.


I looked a little closer, and I saw A BUNCH of guys on that list that have no business being in the Cy Young race, so clearly that Cy Young Predictor formula is broken.

Maybe so. And not once have I ever denied that. But thats the system and a lot of guys are gonna be on there that shouldn't be. Ex: Johnathan Broxton in front of Lincecum But thats just the way the system works. Do I think Broxton had a better year then Tim? No. Not at all. I do think Wainwright AND Carpenter had better seasons. I think Wainwright will get it and that is my opinion.

Through 5 pages of this, they are still not getting that.

Can't everybody just agree to disagree and wait for Thursday?

I've been trying to this entire thread. I've tried going back on topic as well. Any time I post ANYTHING in here I get stats shoved down my throat trying to defend Lincecum.

Yay Greinke! Once again though, I don't think his victory should have been as clear cut as it was.

Greinke and Lincecum clearly had the best years. You may not want to accept the stats but they dont lie. The CY Young is not the same as MVP. It clearly should go to the pitcher that performed the best. Lincecum and Greinke cannot help the fact that they pitch for crappy teams and dont have great players to support them like Carpenter and Wainwright do.

I DO believe that one of your homers will win the award. It is very rare to give a pitcher back to back Cy Youngs. I have never said that Timmy will win the award and in fact have been saying for months that I didnt think he would. That does not mean he shouldnt. He should. He is clearly the best pitcher in the National League, had the best stats, and would be everyone's choice to be their #1 pick in free agency if he was eligible.

I'm a homer because I think the guy on the team I root for is gonna win..but when it comes to you, you back it with Lincecum is the best pitcher in the NL. I've NEVER stated Wainwright is a better pitcher. I think he has had a better year then Lincecum but that means nothing. What if Hunter Pence goes out and hits 75 homeruns and 150 RBIs next year. Is he a better player then Albert Pujols? No way.

I don't care whos the #1 pick in free agency. I don't care about all these stats you're pursuing all over the internet. I don't care if hes the best talent of a pitcher in the NL. I don't care John.

All I've stated is the exact same thing you have. Your opinion. You think Lincecum has had the better season. I think Wainwright has. We both stated our opinions. Now you can go post all the stats and crap ya want, but once again. I don't care.

In my opinion, I think Adam Wanwright will win the 2009 NL Cy Young.

James.. other than wins which you have to agree is something that the pitcher cannot control, what REALLY makes you believe that Wainwright had the better year??? It cant be quality starts because Timmy had more. It cant be era, strikouts, whip. What is it? Oh ya ... I know. Its that he has Cardinals written on his jersey.

Glad you dont care about stats. LOL. I am sure you would use them however for Pujols to back up the MVP award.

What bothers me the most about this whole award (they said the same thing for Greinke) is the fact that other players get sympathy because of the teams they play for. Ooh Greinke/Lincecum play for lower talent teams. Boo-freaking-hoo. They didn't get the job done and thats what matters IMO. While Lincecum is beating Wainwright in certain stats, once again I don't care. Cy Young is NOT the same as posted here before. MVP relies more on stats compared to Cy Young. If Linceum's key stats (that you listed) were leaps and bounds above Wainwrights I'd say you have a case. But, we all know that they aren't and during all the Cardinals cold streaks this season it was Wainwright locking down to keep this team in games and in the race of the NL. We can sit here and argue all day long John..and go back and forth about why this guy should win and why he shouldn't but like I said..going on how the system works and how they determine the "better season"..I think Wainwright will come away w/ the trophy.

It's not sympathy, it's objective comparison. You can't fault a pitcher for things out of his control.

For instance, Timmy has three losses when he's given up two runs or less, and has six no decisions when he's given up two runs or less, four of those were games where he left with a lead.

You can't fault a pitcher for their team's offense or their bullpen. Saying they "didn't get it done" is a ridiculous assumption.
Originally posted by jrg:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by jrg:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by jrg:
Originally posted by TheSixthRing:
Originally posted by jrg:
Originally posted by TheSixthRing:
Originally posted by jrg:
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Originally posted by jrg:
Link

Once again you just proved that Lincecum did have the better season.

Just stop it.

Maybe you need to look a little closer.


I looked a little closer, and I saw A BUNCH of guys on that list that have no business being in the Cy Young race, so clearly that Cy Young Predictor formula is broken.

Maybe so. And not once have I ever denied that. But thats the system and a lot of guys are gonna be on there that shouldn't be. Ex: Johnathan Broxton in front of Lincecum But thats just the way the system works. Do I think Broxton had a better year then Tim? No. Not at all. I do think Wainwright AND Carpenter had better seasons. I think Wainwright will get it and that is my opinion.

Through 5 pages of this, they are still not getting that.

Can't everybody just agree to disagree and wait for Thursday?

I've been trying to this entire thread. I've tried going back on topic as well. Any time I post ANYTHING in here I get stats shoved down my throat trying to defend Lincecum.

Yay Greinke! Once again though, I don't think his victory should have been as clear cut as it was.

Greinke and Lincecum clearly had the best years. You may not want to accept the stats but they dont lie. The CY Young is not the same as MVP. It clearly should go to the pitcher that performed the best. Lincecum and Greinke cannot help the fact that they pitch for crappy teams and dont have great players to support them like Carpenter and Wainwright do.

I DO believe that one of your homers will win the award. It is very rare to give a pitcher back to back Cy Youngs. I have never said that Timmy will win the award and in fact have been saying for months that I didnt think he would. That does not mean he shouldnt. He should. He is clearly the best pitcher in the National League, had the best stats, and would be everyone's choice to be their #1 pick in free agency if he was eligible.

I'm a homer because I think the guy on the team I root for is gonna win..but when it comes to you, you back it with Lincecum is the best pitcher in the NL. I've NEVER stated Wainwright is a better pitcher. I think he has had a better year then Lincecum but that means nothing. What if Hunter Pence goes out and hits 75 homeruns and 150 RBIs next year. Is he a better player then Albert Pujols? No way.

I don't care whos the #1 pick in free agency. I don't care about all these stats you're pursuing all over the internet. I don't care if hes the best talent of a pitcher in the NL. I don't care John.

All I've stated is the exact same thing you have. Your opinion. You think Lincecum has had the better season. I think Wainwright has. We both stated our opinions. Now you can go post all the stats and crap ya want, but once again. I don't care.

In my opinion, I think Adam Wanwright will win the 2009 NL Cy Young.

James.. other than wins which you have to agree is something that the pitcher cannot control, what REALLY makes you believe that Wainwright had the better year??? It cant be quality starts because Timmy had more. It cant be era, strikouts, whip. What is it? Oh ya ... I know. Its that he has Cardinals written on his jersey.

Glad you dont care about stats. LOL. I am sure you would use them however for Pujols to back up the MVP award.

What bothers me the most about this whole award (they said the same thing for Greinke) is the fact that other players get sympathy because of the teams they play for. Ooh Greinke/Lincecum play for lower talent teams. Boo-freaking-hoo. They didn't get the job done and thats what matters IMO. While Lincecum is beating Wainwright in certain stats, once again I don't care. Cy Young is NOT the same as posted here before. MVP relies more on stats compared to Cy Young. If Linceum's key stats (that you listed) were leaps and bounds above Wainwrights I'd say you have a case. But, we all know that they aren't and during all the Cardinals cold streaks this season it was Wainwright locking down to keep this team in games and in the race of the NL. We can sit here and argue all day long John..and go back and forth about why this guy should win and why he shouldn't but like I said..going on how the system works and how they determine the "better season"..I think Wainwright will come away w/ the trophy.

Your statement above is 100% inaccurate. Actually, the CY award is more about stats and the kind of year a pitcher had statistically. It is meant to award the best pitcher regardless of his teams record.

The MVP is NOT just about stats. While they are of course important, the MVP often goes to the player who was perceived to be most valuable to his teams success. The MVP can go to guys like Kirk Gibson who wasnt even close to being near the top of any stat in 1988. Its also why the MVP has gone 1 time EVER to a last place team.
Greinke was the best pitcher in the AL, IMO. Wins are just one category. He won 16, which is still a good number regardless of team. He pitched 6 CG's with 3 shutouts (only topped in both by Halladay).

#1 in ERA, #1 in WHIP, #1 in HR Allowed, #2 in K

My ballot would have been...

1. Greinke
2. Felix
3. Verlander
Originally posted by jrg:
Originally posted by 9erfan4life:
So what instead of giving it to the guy with the most wins it goes to the guy with the lowest era?

Verlander tied for the most wins and had the most strikeouts

B...bu..but...we have to feel bad for Greinke..he played for the lowly Royals...and he
didn't have the help Verlander had..right?

Anyone who knows anything about baseball and pitching knows that Greinke had a far superior year to Verlander. It has nothing to do with pitching for the "lowly Royals"
jrg, as an outside observer, I have to say that people are not attacking your opinion of why Wainwright will win the Cy Young over Lincecum, they're attacking the basis on which you're justifying your opinion. i.e that Wainwright has more wins.

-9fA
  • jrg
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 165,890
9erfanAUS, please show me where I based my opinion on why I think wainwrights wins are why he should win.

And the Verlander thing was a joke. Greinke deserved the cy young
  • crzy
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 40,285
Originally posted by jrg:
9erfanAUS, please show me where I based my opinion on why I think wainwrights wins are why he should win.

And the Verlander thing was a joke. Greinke deserved the cy young

It's your pick in the mock draft.

  • jrg
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 165,890
Originally posted by crzy:
Originally posted by jrg:
9erfanAUS, please show me where I based my opinion on why I think wainwrights wins are why he should win.

And the Verlander thing was a joke.

Greinke deserved the cy young

I'm at work til 8cst. Pick when I get home

It's your pick in the mock draft.
Originally posted by jrg:
9erfanAUS, please show me where I based my opinion on why I think wainwrights wins are why he should win.

And the Verlander thing was a joke. Greinke deserved the cy young

Thats interesting that you think that Greinke deserves the award and that you were joking about Verlander. It pretty much seems like the same situation in the NL - but here you change your tune completely. Please compare the 2 situations between Zack/Verlander and Timmy/Wainwright.

NL AL
Wins Wainwright Verlander
ERA Lincecum Greinke
WHIP Lincecum Greinke
Quality St Lincecum Greinke
Shutouts Lincecum Greinke
K's Lincecum Verlander

Verlander helped his team to a 1 game playoff and Wainwright helped his team to a 3 game playoff. Greinke and Timmy pitched for teams that didnt do much although the Giants contended.

SO........ given all this I ask again. Why is Verlander a joke but Wainwright is deserving??????? I cant wait for the logic on this other than.... just wait Wainwright will win it.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by jrg:
9erfanAUS, please show me where I based my opinion on why I think wainwrights wins are why he should win.

And the Verlander thing was a joke. Greinke deserved the cy young

Thats interesting that you think that Greinke deserves the award and that you were joking about Verlander. It pretty much seems like the same situation in the NL - but here you change your tune completely. Please compare the 2 situations between Zack/Verlander and Timmy/Wainwright.

NL AL
Wins Wainwright Verlander
ERA Lincecum Greinke
WHIP Lincecum Greinke
Quality St Lincecum Greinke
Shutouts Lincecum Greinke
K's Lincecum Verlander

Verlander helped his team to a 1 game playoff and Wainwright helped his team to a 3 game playoff. Greinke and Timmy pitched for teams that didnt do much although the Giants contended.

SO........ given all this I ask again. Why is Verlander a joke but Wainwright is deserving??????? I cant wait for the logic on this other than.... just wait Wainwright will win it.

Holy s**t
  • crzy
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 40,285
Ninerjohn is really good at baseball arguments.

Carpenter is more deserving than Wainwright
[ Edited by crzy on Nov 18, 2009 at 3:31 PM ]
Originally posted by crzy:
Ninerjohn is really good at baseball arguments.

Carpenter is more deserving than Wainwright

oh yeah well lets see him tackle this one

Mark Lemke or Billy Ripken

who you got
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