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2023 OPOY Christian McCaffrey, RB

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2023 OPOY Christian McCaffrey, RB

  • dj43
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 35,603
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by dj43:
The decline of the running game is not the lack of a top-tier RB, or, as one writer claims, is due to not having the running threat of QB power. (that claim makes me ) Rather it is this:

Last season we had Tomlinson, a top-15 guard at LG with a run-blocking rating in the low 70s. This year we have an inexperienced Aaron Banks with a rating of 57.
We also had a former Pro Bowl center still playing at a mid-range level. This year we have the 6th lowest-rated center in the league in Jeff Brendel.
At RG we had Daniel Brunskill, a mid-tier level player who held his own against power and hit the second level with decent consistency. This year we have Spencer Burford, whose run-blocking rating is "replacement" grade.
OT, with Williams when healthy, and McGlinchey, has been equal to last season but injuries are, once again, hurting consistency.

So, no, we don't need a game-changer RB to run behind the crew I just outlined. We need the OL to carry the water.
Did you account for teams putting extra DL ?

Teams are loading up to stop the run, the only way to counter that is taking advantage the secondary by passing. Teams are daring us to pass

Pass blocking has taken a huge step up, but we still lack in the pass due to having a back up QB playing

They did that last year against the same QB.

No, our PP has NOT taken a step up, particularly the IOL. It has improved slightly in the past two games but it is not to the level it was last season. So, while that may not be a huge difference, it is still below average.
not sure about Beau but it's not bad, but Banks is on his way of having a better year than Laken, Bren staying ok,

They are giving jimmy large amounts of time and huge pockets more than not

Keep on ignoring the data so you can continue your anti-Garoppolo narrative. It helps others to realize your comments have little value due to your high bias level.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by dj43:
The decline of the running game is not the lack of a top-tier RB, or, as one writer claims, is due to not having the running threat of QB power. (that claim makes me ) Rather it is this:

Last season we had Tomlinson, a top-15 guard at LG with a run-blocking rating in the low 70s. This year we have an inexperienced Aaron Banks with a rating of 57.
We also had a former Pro Bowl center still playing at a mid-range level. This year we have the 6th lowest-rated center in the league in Jeff Brendel.
At RG we had Daniel Brunskill, a mid-tier level player who held his own against power and hit the second level with decent consistency. This year we have Spencer Burford, whose run-blocking rating is "replacement" grade.
OT, with Williams when healthy, and McGlinchey, has been equal to last season but injuries are, once again, hurting consistency.

So, no, we don't need a game-changer RB to run behind the crew I just outlined. We need the OL to carry the water.
Did you account for teams putting extra DL ?

Teams are loading up to stop the run, the only way to counter that is taking advantage the secondary by passing. Teams are daring us to pass

Pass blocking has taken a huge step up, but we still lack in the pass due to having a back up QB playing

They did that last year against the same QB.

No, our PP has NOT taken a step up, particularly the IOL. It has improved slightly in the past two games but it is not to the level it was last season. So, while that may not be a huge difference, it is still below average.
not sure about Beau but it's not bad, but Banks is on his way of having a better year than Laken, Bren staying ok,

They are giving jimmy large amounts of time and huge pockets more than not

Keep on ignoring the data so you can continue your anti-Garoppolo narrative. It helps others to realize your comments have little value due to your high bias level.
Ignore what data lol, run blocking. How about you look at film on why?

or the film that jimmy is getting way more time to throw now then the past? Do you ignore rating and qbr?

It's all there in color. film is the true measurement
Pass blocking has not been below average outside of Moore. Biggest issue in pass protection has been mental errors letting guys come free.
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Pass blocking has not been below average outside of Moore. Biggest issue in pass protection has been mental errors letting guys come free.

I agree, there was multiple plays where Jimmy had days to go through his reads twice, at least this past game.
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Overpriced overused and oft-injured RB that we have to trade high picks for? Kyle's in.

No thanks!
incorrect, incorrect and incorrect (compared to the games missed by our RBs) is a 3rd a high pick ?

Where are you getting a 3rd from?
Originally posted by Tman:
Posted this on the Fire Sale thread

Jeff Wilson has one of the lowest "yards after contact per rushing attempt" at 1.3

He also has one of the highest "yards before contact per rushing attempt" at 3.7

Averages 4.9 yards a carry

CMC currently has a "yards after contact per rushing attempt" at 2.1

and a "yards before contact per rushing attempt" at 2.5

Averages 4.6 yards a carry

JWJ is getting more then a full yard of blocking before getting hit then CMC

As others have said, CMC would feast in this offense and an RB of his caliber would indeed bring it to another level imo. Teams are not scared of JWJ, the threat from play action passes would make the pass game even that much better as one of Jimmy's better qualities is his play action game.

And you didn't post what OZ is and how those yards are gotten. This isn't a gap power grind out and break tackles running game.

this is a blocking scheme that allows him to hit the hole (RB needs to make correct read/cut) and go. You're not breaking tackles all game and if you want to talk about yards after contact, Mitchell actually did it better last yr then CMC currently.

what play action? We're constantly playing from the gun with Jimmy and play action is less affective there.

His worth, which I stated is as a receiver, especially on 3rd downs. That will also take away from the other playmakers that people are currently b***hing about not getting enough targets.

people need to understand player A on team A doesn't mean equal results when moved to team B. He's not getting 100+ targets here. We don't have a trash team with no other talent where he has to be forced fed the ball like he was in NC.
[ Edited by NYniner85 on Oct 19, 2022 at 4:21 AM ]
Originally posted by Tman:
Agreed, I like a 3rd rounder and maybe plus some other consideration (later round pick or non core player)

And why would the panthers "like that" trade lol? He would have been moved already if that's all it was gonna be
The s**tty thing is I think Mitchell brings a lot more threat without having to spend capital / cap on CMC but who knows if he is going to be back to full strength and last.
(And he isn't as good to start with)

I was thinking CMC was a terrible idea but I am getting more on board with it.

His cost this year is minimal.
Decent chance to re-structure to make it a little more palatable next 2 years.
Or possibly trade him in the off season to re-coup a little if he can't be fit in to the salary cap.

Now it is down to trade compensation. If they honestly think there is a real chance to win this year then I don't really care what it costs.
Let's say they gave a 2023 2nd, and 2024 1st.
If you think of it as you "draft" CMC in those spots he is better than most players the Niners would get.

CMC would be SO good to help Trey next year too. Imagine Trey in the shotgun with CMC and Deebo on either side. How does the D read that? I would line up with that as the base formation lol.

All that being said with the NIners injury luck he will get hurt in the 1st game and that will be it.
Originally posted by bigmur49:
The s**tty thing is I think Mitchell brings a lot more threat without having to spend capital / cap on CMC but who knows if he is going to be back to full strength and last.
(And he isn't as good to start with)

I was thinking CMC was a terrible idea but I am getting more on board with it.

His cost this year is minimal.
Decent chance to re-structure to make it a little more palatable next 2 years.
Or possibly trade him in the off season to re-coup a little if he can't be fit in to the salary cap.

Now it is down to trade compensation. If they honestly think there is a real chance to win this year then I don't really care what it costs.
Let's say they gave a 2023 2nd, and 2024 1st.
If you think of it as you "draft" CMC in those spots he is better than most players the Niners would get.

CMC would be SO good to help Trey next year too. Imagine Trey in the shotgun with CMC and Deebo on either side. How does the D read that? I would line up with that as the base formation lol.

All that being said with the NIners injury luck he will get hurt in the 1st game and that will be it.

If the compensation it's stupid, as a fan I would love it. Talent is talent even if it's at a position that doesn't need elite talent to be successful.

he will want more GTD cash wherever he goes and there's a ton of good RBs on the market this off season.

personally I would rather put resources into something else.
It would be awesome to see CMC in this offense

  • Tman
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,270
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Tman:
Posted this on the Fire Sale thread

Jeff Wilson has one of the lowest "yards after contact per rushing attempt" at 1.3

He also has one of the highest "yards before contact per rushing attempt" at 3.7

Averages 4.9 yards a carry

CMC currently has a "yards after contact per rushing attempt" at 2.1

and a "yards before contact per rushing attempt" at 2.5

Averages 4.6 yards a carry

JWJ is getting more then a full yard of blocking before getting hit then CMC

As others have said, CMC would feast in this offense and an RB of his caliber would indeed bring it to another level imo. Teams are not scared of JWJ, the threat from play action passes would make the pass game even that much better as one of Jimmy's better qualities is his play action game.

And you didn't post what OZ is and how those yards are gotten. This isn't a gap power grind out and break tackles running game.

this is a blocking scheme that allows him to hit the hole (RB needs to make correct read/cut) and go. You're not breaking tackles all game and if you want to talk about yards after contact, Mitchell actually did it better last yr then CMC currently.

what play action? We're constantly playing from the gun with Jimmy and play action is less affective there.

His worth, which I stated is as a receiver, especially on 3rd downs. That will also take away from the other playmakers that people are currently b***hing about not getting enough targets.

people need to understand player A on team A doesn't mean equal results when moved to team B. He's not getting 100+ targets here. We don't have a trash team with no other talent where he has to be forced fed the ball like he was in NC.

Lol

Its the qb, wait no it's the blocking, wait no it's the running scheme. Every point you have tried to make has been invalidated, except the "it's not fantasy football"

Numbers are number dude, JWJ is getting better blocking then most of the league and doing less with it. More then a full yard then CMC.

You are basically proving my point anyways, if this running scheme is that good that it allows mediocre rbs to average nearly 5 yards a carry, an elite back would do that much better and take it to another level.

And I haven't even touched on his value as a receiver
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 32,142
Originally posted by bigmur49:
The s**tty thing is I think Mitchell brings a lot more threat without having to spend capital / cap on CMC but who knows if he is going to be back to full strength and last.
(And he isn't as good to start with)

I was thinking CMC was a terrible idea but I am getting more on board with it.

His cost this year is minimal.
Decent chance to re-structure to make it a little more palatable next 2 years.
Or possibly trade him in the off season to re-coup a little if he can't be fit in to the salary cap.

Now it is down to trade compensation. If they honestly think there is a real chance to win this year then I don't really care what it costs.
Let's say they gave a 2023 2nd, and 2024 1st.
If you think of it as you "draft" CMC in those spots he is better than most players the Niners would get.

CMC would be SO good to help Trey next year too. Imagine Trey in the shotgun with CMC and Deebo on either side. How does the D read that? I would line up with that as the base formation lol.

All that being said with the NIners injury luck he will get hurt in the 1st game and that will be it.

I would read that as a passing formation because I don't think either Deebo or CMC should be lead blocking.
  • Tman
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,270
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Tman:
Agreed, I like a 3rd rounder and maybe plus some other consideration (later round pick or non core player)

And why would the panthers "like that" trade lol? He would have been moved already if that's all it was gonna be

Didn't say they would lol
Jed York and the front office don't have the balls to buy McCaffrey and buy a ring like the lambs did last year

If Lance is a bust and we don't find a QB for the future aka

mahomes Allen Herbert etc we need to go out and pay Lamar Jackson because Lance don't even look good and obviously gonna have injury issues since shanny thinks he's Fred Beasley
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Tman:
Posted this on the Fire Sale thread

Jeff Wilson has one of the lowest "yards after contact per rushing attempt" at 1.3

He also has one of the highest "yards before contact per rushing attempt" at 3.7

Averages 4.9 yards a carry

CMC currently has a "yards after contact per rushing attempt" at 2.1

and a "yards before contact per rushing attempt" at 2.5

Averages 4.6 yards a carry

JWJ is getting more then a full yard of blocking before getting hit then CMC

As others have said, CMC would feast in this offense and an RB of his caliber would indeed bring it to another level imo. Teams are not scared of JWJ, the threat from play action passes would make the pass game even that much better as one of Jimmy's better qualities is his play action game.

And you didn't post what OZ is and how those yards are gotten. This isn't a gap power grind out and break tackles running game.

this is a blocking scheme that allows him to hit the hole (RB needs to make correct read/cut) and go. You're not breaking tackles all game and if you want to talk about yards after contact, Mitchell actually did it better last yr then CMC currently.

what play action? We're constantly playing from the gun with Jimmy and play action is less affective there.

His worth, which I stated is as a receiver, especially on 3rd downs. That will also take away from the other playmakers that people are currently b***hing about not getting enough targets.

people need to understand player A on team A doesn't mean equal results when moved to team B. He's not getting 100+ targets here. We don't have a trash team with no other talent where he has to be forced fed the ball like he was in NC.

I just want to clarify what you're saying in the bolded above.

You think CMC being in a different offensive scheme is the reason he more yards after contact… basically because contact comes sooner? You think Mitchell and Wilson are better at making the correct read/cut than CMC? You think CMCs only worth is as a third down receiver?

Im just wondering, because that's what you posted. It would be a pretty bold opinion to think that CMC wouldn't be an upgrade over our RBs in every category.
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