2021 Team Information (Needs)

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
You can't stack like 6 really good LBs, just unfortunate injuries

Plenty of cheaper veteran LB's you can add as insurance and ST's esp. this off season where teams were off loading. Keeping just 5 was risky too esp. given how poorly our DL depth ended up being (Hurst).

Warner+Greenlaw+Azeez

DFF+Harris (both converted S's who can't tackle)

I was saying in the offseason how we needed to draft some better backup LBs, not a big fan of either DFF or Harris, although Harris has played good. The whole Kendricks thing is so weird, signed, injured in his 1st preseason game, brought back, waived the same week, he likely didn't look good, but it sucks to be down Dre & Fred, but I do like Azeez a lot, I think he & Harris, and if Hufanga comes down to play LB, we should be good for 1-2 weeks while Fred is out.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Linebackers. I've said before the season this was a low grade real need. They kept bringing in Mychal Kendricks, putting him on I.R. and releasing him. Now they're down to using nickel to make up for it.

I thought it would be a big need because we knew DeMeco Ryans had extra big plans for Warner (more use in blitzing) so more use for us usually equates to more injuries. And if he goes down, what's the plan?

Now we're down Warner, Greenlaw might be done for the year since it took him all year just to play last week and he reaggravated his groin and Harris is on concussion protocol.

It'll still be thin and dangerous even when Warner comes back IMHO. A veteran team could really exploit this weakness.

I guess you can say the same about OL, CB, and WRs. Tyrell Adams from our practice squad started 12 games for the Texans last season. He is clearly behind Flannigan-Fowles and Marcell Harris though.

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
You can't stack like 6 really good LBs, just unfortunate injuries

Plenty of cheaper veteran LB's you can add as insurance and ST's esp. this off season where teams were off loading. Keeping just 5 was risky too esp. given how poorly our DL depth ended up being (Hurst).

Warner+Greenlaw+Azeez

DFF+Harris (both converted S's who can't tackle)

I was saying in the offseason how we needed to draft some better backup LBs, not a big fan of either DFF or Harris, although Harris has played good. The whole Kendricks thing is so weird, signed, injured in his 1st preseason game, brought back, waived the same week, he likely didn't look good, but it sucks to be down Dre & Fred, but I do like Azeez a lot, I think he & Harris, and if Hufanga comes down to play LB, we should be good for 1-2 weeks while Fred is out.

I don't think Hufanga will play "LB", but we can play a big nickel package with Ward, Tartt, and Hufanga all on the field.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I think I'll still keep my position that CBs>>>LB's.

1. If this is a pass defense *first* vs a run defense first - then DB's are more valuable than LB's. (wide 9 tells me it's a pass first defense)
2. If the offense does what it's supposed to do, then the defense will always play from ahead, meaning our offense should score first (before the other team) and the other team has to catch up to our team and play against our nickel defense more than the base defense.
3. Most teams (in this day and age) are playing 11 personnel anyway most of the time.
4. You *can* stop the run with the Nickel Defense - but you have to take your chances.
5. A good pass defense comprises of a solid DB corps and a solid DLine corps - there's not a real need for a solid LB corps if you are predominantly playing to stop the pass.
6. In run defense - the Kocureck's DE's can sub in as LB's in base defense.

Most definitely. As to high draft picks and capital, yeah, no doubt DB all the way. But as far as team needs, I also targeted depth at LB a low key troubling position so I would have liked a couple more cheaper quality veterans and kept 6, not 5. I liked the M.Kendricks signing but of course he was just a wasted I.R. signing...twice.

I think two ways you can add depth without breaking the cap or spend a whole bunch of draft capital. 1) do a good job scouting the smaller schools (classic example was Charles Haley from a small school like James Madison) 2) guys like Azeez who were injured in college, but fell in the draft.

I think Azeez is the classic HaarBalke kind of *depth* player I think can work out. He was looked at as a possible Butkus award winner in college, and then tore his ACL his senior year. He has played very well recently, and he's recovered (so it seems) very well from the ACL injury. What happened in the past was that the current front office would probably have used a 3rd or possibly 2nd round pick for a guy like Azeez (like Cory Lemonier during the HaarBalke regime). What happened this offseason was that ShanaLynch waited until Azeez was undrafted, and then got him. Another similar example was Hufanga that fell past the 4th round. In other words, you can invest in injured players, but you have to be very frugal in getting them. Make them prove themselves by proving their durability over the course of a season or two vs just using a bunch of capital or cap space on a gamble.

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
You can't stack like 6 really good LBs, just unfortunate injuries

Plenty of cheaper veteran LB's you can add as insurance and ST's esp. this off season where teams were off loading. Keeping just 5 was risky too esp. given how poorly our DL depth ended up being (Hurst).

Warner+Greenlaw+Azeez

DFF+Harris (both converted S's who can't tackle)

I was saying in the offseason how we needed to draft some better backup LBs, not a big fan of either DFF or Harris, although Harris has played good. The whole Kendricks thing is so weird, signed, injured in his 1st preseason game, brought back, waived the same week, he likely didn't look good, but it sucks to be down Dre & Fred, but I do like Azeez a lot, I think he & Harris, and if Hufanga comes down to play LB, we should be good for 1-2 weeks while Fred is out.

It wasn't my biggest team need going into the season but like you, it definitely felt thin and risky with just one bigger injury to that group having a domino effect. I liked your thoughts on it too.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
You can't stack like 6 really good LBs, just unfortunate injuries

Plenty of cheaper veteran LB's you can add as insurance and ST's esp. this off season where teams were off loading. Keeping just 5 was risky too esp. given how poorly our DL depth ended up being (Hurst).

Warner+Greenlaw+Azeez

DFF+Harris (both converted S's who can't tackle)

I was saying in the offseason how we needed to draft some better backup LBs, not a big fan of either DFF or Harris, although Harris has played good. The whole Kendricks thing is so weird, signed, injured in his 1st preseason game, brought back, waived the same week, he likely didn't look good, but it sucks to be down Dre & Fred, but I do like Azeez a lot, I think he & Harris, and if Hufanga comes down to play LB, we should be good for 1-2 weeks while Fred is out.

It wasn't my biggest team need going into the season but like you, it definitely felt thin and risky with just one bigger injury to that group having a domino effect. I liked your thoughts on it too.

What team has starter quality LBs at the 4th and 5th depth position? Some teams don't even have two decent starting LBs

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I think I'll still keep my position that CBs>>>LB's.

1. If this is a pass defense *first* vs a run defense first - then DB's are more valuable than LB's. (wide 9 tells me it's a pass first defense)
2. If the offense does what it's supposed to do, then the defense will always play from ahead, meaning our offense should score first (before the other team) and the other team has to catch up to our team and play against our nickel defense more than the base defense.
3. Most teams (in this day and age) are playing 11 personnel anyway most of the time.
4. You *can* stop the run with the Nickel Defense - but you have to take your chances.
5. A good pass defense comprises of a solid DB corps and a solid DLine corps - there's not a real need for a solid LB corps if you are predominantly playing to stop the pass.
6. In run defense - the Kocureck's DE's can sub in as LB's in base defense.

Most definitely. As to high draft picks and capital, yeah, no doubt DB all the way. But as far as team needs, I also targeted depth at LB a low key troubling position so I would have liked a couple more cheaper quality veterans and kept 6, not 5. I liked the M.Kendricks signing but of course he was just a wasted I.R. signing...twice.

I think two ways you can add depth without breaking the cap or spend a whole bunch of draft capital. 1) do a good job scouting the smaller schools (classic example was Charles Haley from a small school like James Madison) 2) guys like Azeez who were injured in college, but fell in the draft.

I think Azeez is the classic HaarBalke kind of *depth* player I think can work out. He was looked at as a possible Butkus award winner in college, and then tore his ACL his senior year. He has played very well recently, and he's recovered (so it seems) very well from the ACL injury. What happened in the past was that the current front office would probably have used a 3rd or possibly 2nd round pick for a guy like Azeez (like Cory Lemonier during the HaarBalke regime). What happened this offseason was that ShanaLynch waited until Azeez was undrafted, and then got him. Another similar example was Hufanga that fell past the 4th round. In other words, you can invest in injured players, but you have to be very frugal in getting them. Make them prove themselves by proving their durability over the course of a season or two vs just using a bunch of capital or cap space on a gamble.

I'm sure there are a lot of fans that are cringing when you suggest drafting players that were injured in college and fell in the draft. I see a lot of posters saying we need to quit drafting injured guys.

I see your point because drafting a good player that falls in the draft because of injury can really reap some talent. On the other hand, some never get fully healthy so you're tasking a chance. I guess it comes down to the type of injury, how serious it was and how bad you need a player at that position.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I think I'll still keep my position that CBs>>>LB's.

1. If this is a pass defense *first* vs a run defense first - then DB's are more valuable than LB's. (wide 9 tells me it's a pass first defense)
2. If the offense does what it's supposed to do, then the defense will always play from ahead, meaning our offense should score first (before the other team) and the other team has to catch up to our team and play against our nickel defense more than the base defense.
3. Most teams (in this day and age) are playing 11 personnel anyway most of the time.
4. You *can* stop the run with the Nickel Defense - but you have to take your chances.
5. A good pass defense comprises of a solid DB corps and a solid DLine corps - there's not a real need for a solid LB corps if you are predominantly playing to stop the pass.
6. In run defense - the Kocureck's DE's can sub in as LB's in base defense.

Most definitely. As to high draft picks and capital, yeah, no doubt DB all the way. But as far as team needs, I also targeted depth at LB a low key troubling position so I would have liked a couple more cheaper quality veterans and kept 6, not 5. I liked the M.Kendricks signing but of course he was just a wasted I.R. signing...twice.

I think two ways you can add depth without breaking the cap or spend a whole bunch of draft capital. 1) do a good job scouting the smaller schools (classic example was Charles Haley from a small school like James Madison) 2) guys like Azeez who were injured in college, but fell in the draft.

I think Azeez is the classic HaarBalke kind of *depth* player I think can work out. He was looked at as a possible Butkus award winner in college, and then tore his ACL his senior year. He has played very well recently, and he's recovered (so it seems) very well from the ACL injury. What happened in the past was that the current front office would probably have used a 3rd or possibly 2nd round pick for a guy like Azeez (like Cory Lemonier during the HaarBalke regime). What happened this offseason was that ShanaLynch waited until Azeez was undrafted, and then got him. Another similar example was Hufanga that fell past the 4th round. In other words, you can invest in injured players, but you have to be very frugal in getting them. Make them prove themselves by proving their durability over the course of a season or two vs just using a bunch of capital or cap space on a gamble.

I'm sure there are a lot of fans that are cringing when you suggest drafting players that were injured in college and fell in the draft. I see a lot of posters saying we need to quit drafting injured guys.

I see your point because drafting a good player that falls in the draft because of injury can really reap some talent. On the other hand, some never get fully healthy so you're tasking a chance. I guess it comes down to the type of injury, how serious it was and how bad you need a player at that position.

Agree. I think they overdid it (to a certain extent) because ownership (York) has extensive medical knowledge and maybe had been too confident in the past regarding their ability to judge medical injuries. While not a bad idea, I think they just overvalued certain things and undervalued others, and they just recently recalibrated that to a, what I think, much better risk assessment template.

I think where they can improve further is assessing the *mental aspect* of an injury. I.e. Bosa vs Hurd. Bosa is even better than when he was injured, vs Hurd who never overcame his injuries. To a certain extent it's pain tolerance. How much a player can push himself in Re-hab, but also how much a player will be disciplined in pushing himself every day in the off-season, when he doesn't *have to.* I think they can get better at that. Kyle loves to watch film of players when he scouts and assesses their talent. What film doesn't reveal is the players intangibles, and I think he's done a good job of improving his assessment of a players intangibles. But he can do better!

Originally posted by Giedi:
Agree. I think they overdid it (to a certain extent) because ownership (York) has extensive medical knowledge and maybe had been too confident in the past regarding their ability to judge medical injuries. While not a bad idea, I think they just overvalued certain things and undervalued others, and they just recently recalibrated that to a, what I think, much better risk assessment template.

I think where they can improve further is assessing the *mental aspect* of an injury. I.e. Bosa vs Hurd. Bosa is even better than when he was injured, vs Hurd who never overcame his injuries. To a certain extent it's pain tolerance. How much a player can push himself in Re-hab, but also how much a player will be disciplined in pushing himself every day in the off-season, when he doesn't *have to.* I think they can get better at that. Kyle loves to watch film of players when he scouts and assesses their talent. What film doesn't reveal is the players intangibles, and I think he's done a good job of improving his assessment of a players intangibles. But he can do better!

That mental aspect is often overlooked and like you said is impossible to assess. If you've ever had a serious injury or illness you know it can take a toll on your mental outlook. You are suddenly forced to face your immortality. Some people take it as a challenge and others as defeat. Most athletes probably take it as a challenge since it's their career and they tend to be wired differently than the average person. If they don't maybe they were never cut out to be professional athletes.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
You can't stack like 6 really good LBs, just unfortunate injuries

Plenty of cheaper veteran LB's you can add as insurance and ST's esp. this off season where teams were off loading. Keeping just 5 was risky too esp. given how poorly our DL depth ended up being (Hurst).

Warner+Greenlaw+Azeez

DFF+Harris (both converted S's who can't tackle)

I was saying in the offseason how we needed to draft some better backup LBs, not a big fan of either DFF or Harris, although Harris has played good. The whole Kendricks thing is so weird, signed, injured in his 1st preseason game, brought back, waived the same week, he likely didn't look good, but it sucks to be down Dre & Fred, but I do like Azeez a lot, I think he & Harris, and if Hufanga comes down to play LB, we should be good for 1-2 weeks while Fred is out.

It wasn't my biggest team need going into the season but like you, it definitely felt thin and risky with just one bigger injury to that group having a domino effect. I liked your thoughts on it too.

What team has starter quality LBs at the 4th and 5th depth position? Some teams don't even have two decent starting LBs

This. The 49ers under Harbaugh (with Fangio in particular as a D-coordinator) were an anomaly. Also, using picks on a linebacker when we have 3 quality guys is wasteful given our other demands. Using picks on a 4th linebacker? We need 2 corners. Can use a 3rd receiver. Need at least one O-lineman. Need another run stuffing DT. Definitely need an edge rusher so we can part ways with Ford at some point, whether after the 2021 season or the 2022 season. We have to get prepared for that moment. Should be thinking about a QB that plays like Trey Lance. And I'd like a TE with Kittle's blocking ability so we can use him more in the passing game. All of the above supersede the need the the 4th linebacker in this defense. Going to hit the UDFA market for that.

The 49er Way:
Talent: Speed, Toughness/Physicality, Position Specific Athletic Traits & Scheme Fit
Spirit: Football Passion; Do they Love it?, Contagious Competitiveness, Dependability; Protect the Team, Mental Toughness, Football IQ & Accountability to other Players and Themselves

Who else thinks this is one of the softest and dumbest collective groups of players you've ever seen? From being so mentally weak against the Cards and Seahawks to flat out constantly shooting themselves in the foot.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
You can't stack like 6 really good LBs, just unfortunate injuries

Plenty of cheaper veteran LB's you can add as insurance and ST's esp. this off season where teams were off loading. Keeping just 5 was risky too esp. given how poorly our DL depth ended up being (Hurst).

Warner+Greenlaw+Azeez

DFF+Harris (both converted S's who can't tackle)

I was saying in the offseason how we needed to draft some better backup LBs, not a big fan of either DFF or Harris, although Harris has played good. The whole Kendricks thing is so weird, signed, injured in his 1st preseason game, brought back, waived the same week, he likely didn't look good, but it sucks to be down Dre & Fred, but I do like Azeez a lot, I think he & Harris, and if Hufanga comes down to play LB, we should be good for 1-2 weeks while Fred is out.

It wasn't my biggest team need going into the season but like you, it definitely felt thin and risky with just one bigger injury to that group having a domino effect. I liked your thoughts on it too.

What team has starter quality LBs at the 4th and 5th depth position? Some teams don't even have two decent starting LBs

Huh? Nobody is suggesting needing to use a first round pick for depth. We're talking about having cheap competent veterans who can fill in for a couple games and help on ST. DFF and Harris aren't it. They're not even LB's.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I think I'll still keep my position that CBs>>>LB's.

1. If this is a pass defense *first* vs a run defense first - then DB's are more valuable than LB's. (wide 9 tells me it's a pass first defense)
2. If the offense does what it's supposed to do, then the defense will always play from ahead, meaning our offense should score first (before the other team) and the other team has to catch up to our team and play against our nickel defense more than the base defense.
3. Most teams (in this day and age) are playing 11 personnel anyway most of the time.
4. You *can* stop the run with the Nickel Defense - but you have to take your chances.
5. A good pass defense comprises of a solid DB corps and a solid DLine corps - there's not a real need for a solid LB corps if you are predominantly playing to stop the pass.
6. In run defense - the Kocureck's DE's can sub in as LB's in base defense.

Most definitely. As to high draft picks and capital, yeah, no doubt DB all the way. But as far as team needs, I also targeted depth at LB a low key troubling position so I would have liked a couple more cheaper quality veterans and kept 6, not 5. I liked the M.Kendricks signing but of course he was just a wasted I.R. signing...twice.

I think two ways you can add depth without breaking the cap or spend a whole bunch of draft capital. 1) do a good job scouting the smaller schools (classic example was Charles Haley from a small school like James Madison) 2) guys like Azeez who were injured in college, but fell in the draft.

I think Azeez is the classic HaarBalke kind of *depth* player I think can work out. He was looked at as a possible Butkus award winner in college, and then tore his ACL his senior year. He has played very well recently, and he's recovered (so it seems) very well from the ACL injury. What happened in the past was that the current front office would probably have used a 3rd or possibly 2nd round pick for a guy like Azeez (like Cory Lemonier during the HaarBalke regime). What happened this offseason was that ShanaLynch waited until Azeez was undrafted, and then got him. Another similar example was Hufanga that fell past the 4th round. In other words, you can invest in injured players, but you have to be very frugal in getting them. Make them prove themselves by proving their durability over the course of a season or two vs just using a bunch of capital or cap space on a gamble.

I'm sure there are a lot of fans that are cringing when you suggest drafting players that were injured in college and fell in the draft. I see a lot of posters saying we need to quit drafting injured guys.

I see your point because drafting a good player that falls in the draft because of injury can really reap some talent. On the other hand, some never get fully healthy so you're tasking a chance. I guess it comes down to the type of injury, how serious it was and how bad you need a player at that position.

I actually have no issue drafting someone who got hurt in college if they fall to day 3, like rd 5-7, cause I mean look at Gore, tore both ACLs in college, no one thought he'd end up being a top rushing RB.

Originally posted by NCommand:
The 49er Way:
Talent: Speed, Toughness/Physicality, Position Specific Athletic Traits & Scheme Fit
Spirit: Football Passion; Do they Love it?, Contagious Competitiveness, Dependability; Protect the Team, Mental Toughness, Football IQ & Accountability to other Players and Themselves

Who else thinks this is one of the softest and dumbest collective groups of players you've ever seen? From being so mentally weak against the Cards and Seahawks to flat out constantly shooting themselves in the foot.

I wouldn't call the entire roster soft or dumb, there have been too many mental mistakes, I agree, but even guys like Deebo, Aiyuk, Kittle, etc... have made them, but I don't think any of them are soft or dumb. Clearly, we deserved to lose Sunday, I love Kyle, but the 1st and 2nd down plays on the final drive ton run it, made no sense to me, we have Aiyuk & Kittle killing them, we should have done play action, if any run play, if Deebo was playing, that's the kind of run you do, his jet sweep runs, but up the middle, where the Seahawks have improved, bad idea. I just hope like the Cards game, this lights a fire under their asses, cause they can win the last 5 IMO.

CB
C
LB depth