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49ers trade for Trent Williams

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Originally posted by richterkbelmont:
Originally posted by MrNineSeven:
Originally posted by richterkbelmont:
PFF knows more than clueless fans on the internet

Lol said no one ever. PFF needs to do us all a favor and just stick to the stats. Stop with the making up s stats. They fkn have stats for how well a player blocks when he's trimmed his Pubs! Or if the grass is cut at a certain angle ... the stupid s**t they come up with is indeed entertaining no doubt.
PFF doesn't know assignments and adjustments so how can they accurately grade whether a play was good or bad?
PFF = TMZ

PFF knows more than some internet nobodies. That's a fact.
They can put random and useless stats but their overall grades are legit, for people who actually understands football.

People hate PFF as soon as it doesn't support their argument.
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by richterkbelmont:
Originally posted by MrNineSeven:
Originally posted by richterkbelmont:
PFF knows more than clueless fans on the internet

Lol said no one ever. PFF needs to do us all a favor and just stick to the stats. Stop with the making up s stats. They fkn have stats for how well a player blocks when he's trimmed his Pubs! Or if the grass is cut at a certain angle ... the stupid s**t they come up with is indeed entertaining no doubt.
PFF doesn't know assignments and adjustments so how can they accurately grade whether a play was good or bad?
PFF = TMZ

PFF knows more than some internet nobodies. That's a fact.
They can put random and useless stats but their overall grades are legit, for people who actually understands football.

People hate PFF as soon as it doesn't support their argument.

So you think that contract they are predicting is legit ?
Originally posted by jersey49er:
So you think that contract they are predicting is legit ?

It sounds legit. I just don't know how we're gonna afford it.
Originally posted by ElDannMann:
Originally posted by jersey49er:
So you think that contract they are predicting is legit ?

It sounds legit. I just don't know how we're gonna afford it.

Cuts to Ford and Richburg, restructuring others, trading Jimmy ? Or cut him too..
Originally posted by richterkbelmont:
Originally posted by MrNineSeven:
Originally posted by richterkbelmont:
PFF knows more than clueless fans on the internet

Lol said no one ever. PFF needs to do us all a favor and just stick to the stats. Stop with the making up s stats. They fkn have stats for how well a player blocks when he's trimmed his Pubs! Or if the grass is cut at a certain angle ... the stupid s**t they come up with is indeed entertaining no doubt.
PFF doesn't know assignments and adjustments so how can they accurately grade whether a play was good or bad?
PFF = TMZ

PFF knows more than some internet nobodies. That's a fact.
They can put random and useless stats but their overall grades are legit, for people who actually understands football.

Contrary to the belief a lot of coaches are in record saying how much the majority of PFF stats are irrelevant.
No doubt there's some good stuff but they have been pulling rabbits out of the hat a lot more over the last 3 years.
  • Giedi
  • Veteran
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Originally posted by richterkbelmont:
I agree there but my point is the mistake this FO has done is to pay big money to players who doesn't deserve it (Kwon, Jimmy, Mckinnon, Richburg, Ford). So the money you spend on dudes who are average or injury prone send it to guys like Kittle, Warner and Williams. In a future perhaps there won't be money to keep Greenlaw or Deebo if you want to keep Bosa, but that's the point of what you mention: draft and develop talent, and replace talent with talent.
Moves like the Buckner trade are needed and it's great value to get a first rounder and get a potential but raw replacement on a new cheap deal.
Correct Player evaluation is key to having good cap management. Its tied to drafting, free agency, and structuring the cap contracts. Unfortunately its not a certainty. Player evaluations is chock full of uncertainties. The guys who do well are more right than wrong. ShanaLynch was right on Greenlaw, Deebo etc.. but missed it on Thomas and Ford etc... add in the unforseen injuries, the premature aging of players, players lying about their motivation (Pettis) and I'm beginning to think if you are right 50% of the time as a player evaluator, maybe you are doing better than most of the folks in the business.

So bottom line- more often than not, incorrect player evaluations leads to bad cap problems.
  • Giedi
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 18,387
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by NYniner85:

Perfect!

Can't we back load his contract so when the cap inevitably goes back up his contract won't have us in such a bind?
Question to those in the know about CAP and contracts, does a signing bonus count against the CAP? If not can't teams manipulate CAP with larger signing bonuses?
Originally posted by wolfpack2192:
Question to those in the know about CAP and contracts, does a signing bonus count against the CAP? If not can't teams manipulate CAP with larger signing bonuses?

A signing bonus must generally be amortized equally over the number of years of the contract. You can do a large one and pay a small salary early on to get him money early and eat cap space later, but we're going to need to pay people later too.
[ Edited by BOI49er on Jan 13, 2021 at 9:22 PM ]

  • Giedi
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 18,387
Originally posted by 49inchesdeep:
Can't we back load his contract so when the cap inevitably goes back up his contract won't have us in such a bind?

I'm not a fan of back loaded contracts. The average player's NFL career is a little over 3 years. This next year, and the year after (assuming we sign Trent this year) is already 2 years - which is 66% of a players career, and backloading his contract is a gamble in year 3 because again, the average players career is 3-ish years. You have a heavily backloaded contract at pretty much the *end* of Trent's career - now you have to eat a lot dead cap money because of the backloaded-ness of that contract if Trent can't fulfil his entire contract terms.

Contrast it to a front loaded contract, where the bulk of Jimmy's money came in - and paid to him - in year one and two of his contract. Now the team has the freedom to play around with the cap in year three, and restructure to free up more cap space to sign free agents or injury replacements. Keep in mind, unless you get a team to trade a player to you prior to their second contract, you are getting a free agent that is essentially on his second contract and is already beyond the average players career in terms of years. You are already statistically behind the curve in terms of his player career. Example Pierre Garcon, he was signed to his contract and never fulfilled his contract after year one because of a neck injury, and there was a lot of cap sp3ce wasted on him.

As for the cap going up. Yes the cap does generally go up, but again, however nobody predicted the Covid 19 disaster that actually reduced the cap. You don't know what will happen in year three of a backloaded contract. In 2023, who knows, US and China get into a hot war and the economy tanks, and whalla, the cap goes down in 2023 instead of going up, and now you have to deal with a backloaded contract *and* a reduced salary cap. That truly is cap hell.
  • Giedi
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 18,387
Originally posted by BOI49er:
Originally posted by wolfpack2192:
Question to those in the know about CAP and contracts, does a signing bonus count against the CAP? If not can't teams manipulate CAP with larger signing bonuses?

A signing bonus must generally be amortized equally over the number of years of the contract. You can do a large one and pay a small salary early on to get him money early and eat cap space later, but we're going to need to pay people later too.

Also, I think, if he's traded or let go, then the signing bonus is accelerated and paid out in one year and that is one way for a player to prevent being traded, and it seriously hampers the teams flexibility in terms of getting rid of bad players with overpriced contracts. That's one reason I hate guaranteed money in the contract. I'd rather have his guaranteed money given to him on a front loaded contract and have a very small bonus so that the cap flexibility is maintained. Team is happy because of cap flexibility, and Player is happy because he got his money.
Originally posted by Giedi:
Correct Player evaluation is key to having good cap management. Its tied to drafting, free agency, and structuring the cap contracts. Unfortunately its not a certainty. Player evaluations is chock full of uncertainties. The guys who do well are more right than wrong. ShanaLynch was right on Greenlaw, Deebo etc.. but missed it on Thomas and Ford etc... add in the unforseen injuries, the premature aging of players, players lying about their motivation (Pettis) and I'm beginning to think if you are right 50% of the time as a player evaluator, maybe you are doing better than most of the folks in the business.

[/b]So bottom line- more often than not, incorrect player evaluations leads to bad cap problems.[b]

Exactly. We overpaid average talent in Jimmy G, AA and Ward. And then paid money for injury prone Ford and Richburg. Then came the god awful contract restructures. Leaving us where we have to struggle to sign elite talent we spent a draft pick on
[ Edited by lamontb on Jan 13, 2021 at 10:51 PM ]
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by jersey49er:
Originally posted by ElDannMann:
Originally posted by jersey49er:
So you think that contract they are predicting is legit ?

It sounds legit. I just don't know how we're gonna afford it.

Cuts to Ford and Richburg, restructuring others, trading Jimmy ? Or cut him too..

keeping that worthless center is stupid in my opinion. ford can kick rocks to.. if we can find a way to do it and not hurt the infamous financial house. that would be like us. keep the worthless center . dump williams and then hope some guy can take his spot. this team needs such a upgrade with the center spot its not funny
Originally posted by mayo49:
Originally posted by richterkbelmont:
Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I just read the article at the top and it says they expect a 4 year deal for about $80 million which would make him the 3rd highest paid tackle in the league. PFF had him rated at 91-3 this year which was the highest among tackles. That doesn't sound like a guy that had a bad season.

Indeed it's something around 20M but they'd have to structure it in a way that 2021 impact is not as bad because of the covid drop.

As long as they don't exceed $30M per , I think $20M+ is doable.

That's a lot of cheddar but unfortunately that's the world we live in today. QBs, DEs and left tackles get the big bucks.
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