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Javon Kinlaw is a Jet!-Pick #14, 2020 NFL Draft.

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Originally posted by WINiner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Dts are a dime a dozen, but Kinlaw might be worth the full 12 cents

DT are a dime a dozen BUT those guards that have to block them....priceless

You still don't get this concept. Shocker. When I say DL are a dime a dozen, it means their market is massively oversarurated so you can find a massive FA pool, it's cheap, former first round picks are available always, etc. Dudes like Kinlaw and Buckner and so many other DT's don't move the needle in a passing league anymore. We actually got better in run defense without Buckner AND Kinlaw. Case in point. Spend resources elsewhere.

The extreme opposite is the OL pool. There's very few and they rarely hit the market except via trade. Laken Tomlinson was the #1 FA and he got $13M APY. Perfect example.

And I noted this before we picked Kinlaw and it was why I was OK with the trade for Buckner. Their production can be replaced by throwing cheap DT's in rotation at it and a lot of that will be former 1-3rd round picks with KK coaching them up.

It has nothing to do with G's blocking DL. LMAO

I agree NC. My preferences are to not overspend on DT's or RB's and usually MLB and SS but a rare talent is the exception for the latter 2 and imo our own Fred Warner is that, you don't need a star at those positions and their production is usually closely reproduced by guys who earn a LOT less.

DJ Jones
2021 56 T, 16 assists, 2 sacks = 3.25m

Deforrest Buckner
2021 68 T, 21 assists, 7 sacks = 17m

Deforrest Buckner produced 10 more T, 5 more assists, and 5 more sacks and the difference in pay was 13.75m.

For example.

Good write up and example. And that's a 1T vs. 3T too..a 600 snap vs. 900 snap player. Both are important and high quality players but the production can be replaced with numbers and KK coaching them up in a W9.
[ Edited by NCommand on Jul 22, 2022 at 10:34 PM ]
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by NCommand:
You still don't get this concept. Shocker. When I say DL are a dime a dozen, it means their market is massively oversarurated so you can find a massive FA pool, it's cheap, former first round picks are available always, etc. Dudes like Kinlaw and Buckner and so many other DT's don't move the needle in a passing league anymore. We actually got better in run defense without Buckner AND Kinlaw. Case in point. Spend resources elsewhere.

The extreme opposite is the OL pool. There's very few and they rarely hit the market except via trade. Laken Tomlinson was the #1 FA and he got $13M APY. Perfect example.

And I noted this before we picked Kinlaw and it was why I was OK with the trade for Buckner. Their production can be replaced by throwing cheap DT's in rotation at it and a lot of that will be former 1-3rd round picks with KK coaching them up.

It has nothing to do with G's blocking DL. LMAO

Dude, I usually at least understand where you're coming from, but saying that having a top end DT doesn't "move the needle" is laughable. Pressure up the middle is, and always has been detrimental to the passing game.

We're talking team building and where you can cut corners some to add more resources elsewhere. DL is it esp. DT. We didn't have Buckner nor Kinlaw and got better at run defense. Think about that. And pass rush? KK is simply moving DE's like Key and Hyder inside to give you that. As long as you have Bosa, AA and another ER, you don't need to throw massive high end resources inside. More hybrids. More rotation. KK is the key as is the W9.
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
insert a s**tty DT and watch the opposing team road grade us for 150 yards rushing every game. then tell me DTs are a dime a dozen

Nobody runs anymore. Those days are nearly gone. How did we get better without Buckner and Kinlaw? I'm not saying they don't value...just changing with the league.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
insert a s**tty DT and watch the opposing team road grade us for 150 yards rushing every game. then tell me DTs are a dime a dozen

Nobody runs anymore. Those days are nearly gone. How did we get better without Buckner and Kinlaw? I'm not saying they don't value...just changing with the league.
Our whole division tries to run it down ours and others throats. Like we do them.

we need a stout DL for our division and playoffs
Originally posted by NCommand:
Nobody runs anymore. Those days are nearly gone. How did we get better without Buckner and Kinlaw? I'm not saying they don't value...just changing with the league.

Yet the league values Kenny Clark far more than they do any guard or center.
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Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Yet the league values Kenny Clark far more than they do any guard or center.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
insert a s**tty DT and watch the opposing team road grade us for 150 yards rushing every game. then tell me DTs are a dime a dozen

Nobody runs anymore. Those days are nearly gone. How did we get better without Buckner and Kinlaw? I'm not saying they don't value...just changing with the league.

Having a stud DT that allows SF to not have to blitz all day actually helps with everything on defense and helps the pass D. The league has actually shown you how valuable the DT position is and how they're spending high picks and burning cash at the position. guard not so much
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Nobody runs anymore. Those days are nearly gone. How did we get better without Buckner and Kinlaw? I'm not saying they don't value...just changing with the league.

Yet the league values Kenny Clark far more than they do any guard or center.

One of his dream teams, the colts, gave up the 13th overall pick AND a f**k ton of cash to get Buck. Has anyone ever done that for a guard? Nope.

You can get a guy like Wyatt Teller in the 5th who can be junk on one team, trade nothing for him, then watch him become one of the best guards in football.
Originally posted by NCommand:
You still don't get this concept. Shocker. When I say DL are a dime a dozen, it means their market is massively oversarurated so you can find a massive FA pool, it's cheap, former first round picks are available always, etc. Dudes like Kinlaw and Buckner and so many other DT's don't move the needle in a passing league anymore. We actually got better in run defense without Buckner AND Kinlaw. Case in point. Spend resources elsewhere.

The extreme opposite is the OL pool. There's very few and they rarely hit the market except via trade. Laken Tomlinson was the #1 FA and he got $13M APY. Perfect example.

And I noted this before we picked Kinlaw and it was why I was OK with the trade for Buckner. Their production can be replaced by throwing cheap DT's in rotation at it and a lot of that will be former 1-3rd round picks with KK coaching them up.

It has nothing to do with G's blocking DL. LMAO

No it does have to do with the guard blocking the guy in front of him which happens to be the position that you think doesn't matter.
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Dude, I usually at least understand where you're coming from, but saying that having a top end DT doesn't "move the needle" is laughable. Pressure up the middle is, and always has been detrimental to the passing game.

He said he'd rather have Frank Ragnow than Aaron Donald.


Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
insert a s**tty DT and watch the opposing team road grade us for 150 yards rushing every game. then tell me DTs are a dime a dozen

Nobody runs anymore. Those days are nearly gone. How did we get better without Buckner and Kinlaw? I'm not saying they don't value...just changing with the league.
Our whole division tries to run it down ours and others throats. Like we do them.

we need a stout DL for our division and playoffs

A 600+ passing team runs it down our throats? LOL

And the point wasn't that you need a bunch of UDFA's inside. Crap talent. Just not AS many high end resources because you already know, KK is going to coach them up and develop them very well. From D.J. Jones to Kevin Givens. And many more coming.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
insert a s**tty DT and watch the opposing team road grade us for 150 yards rushing every game. then tell me DTs are a dime a dozen

Nobody runs anymore. Those days are nearly gone. How did we get better without Buckner and Kinlaw? I'm not saying they don't value...just changing with the league.

Having a stud DT that allows SF to not have to blitz all day actually helps with everything on defense and helps the pass D. The league has actually shown you how valuable the DT position is and how they're spending high picks and burning cash at the position. guard not so much

Lol. We already have AA. Very poor stance with the Buckner + Kinlaw example right in front of your face.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
You still don't get this concept. Shocker. When I say DL are a dime a dozen, it means their market is massively oversarurated so you can find a massive FA pool, it's cheap, former first round picks are available always, etc. Dudes like Kinlaw and Buckner and so many other DT's don't move the needle in a passing league anymore. We actually got better in run defense without Buckner AND Kinlaw. Case in point. Spend resources elsewhere.

The extreme opposite is the OL pool. There's very few and they rarely hit the market except via trade. Laken Tomlinson was the #1 FA and he got $13M APY. Perfect example.

And I noted this before we picked Kinlaw and it was why I was OK with the trade for Buckner. Their production can be replaced by throwing cheap DT's in rotation at it and a lot of that will be former 1-3rd round picks with KK coaching them up.

It has nothing to do with G's blocking DL. LMAO

No it does have to do with the guard blocking the guy in front of him which happens to be the position that you think doesn't matter.

Nope, still not comprehending. ^

And again here:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
He said he'd rather have Frank Ragnow than Aaron Donald.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
One of his dream teams, the colts, gave up the 13th overall pick AND a f**k ton of cash to get Buck. Has anyone ever done that for a guard? Nope.

You can get a guy like Wyatt Teller in the 5th who can be junk on one team, trade nothing for him, then watch him become one of the best guards in football.

Colts? LOL. The GM who bought a 3T and drafted a HOF G to start his rebuild? Odd...almost like he values the trenches.

Great. Let me know when we draft and develop one of those guys. Year 7? 8?
Originally posted by NCommand:
Colts? LOL. The GM who bought a 3T and drafted a HOF G to start his rebuild? Odd...almost like he values the trenches.

Great. Let me know when we draft and develop one of those guys. Year 7? 8?

Yet the Colts OL was terrible in 2021 as a group by your standards.
[ Edited by 9ers4eva on Jul 23, 2022 at 2:34 PM ]
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