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Make no mistake, Draft Defense First - or the 49ers offense will have no chance at the end

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I agree.

That defensive depth got us to the dance.
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
When I look at the 49er offense last year, you're correct in assessing that we didn't have a WR outside of Sanders who could create consistent separation and have deep speed. I struggle with a WR as the first priority because the reason why our passing game was essentially middle of the field and slant heavy is simply because PP doesn't consistently hold. For me it's not accident that Kittle is a star and a YAC king. If we look at Deebo, it's the same. I don't know if it's that we can't consistently attack deep because we don't have enough speed versus we're not holding up in PP. I see a lot of short passing when I go through and look at 49er passing games, granted prior to Sanders there were separation issues, but more likely than not it appears to be both.

I can't see us taking advantage of an elite WR if we don't have the PP to execute great passing plays. I'd recommend items 1 and 2 are linked.

Thoughts bud?

They are linked but in the case of Ruggs just because he's got blazing speed doesn't mean all you're throwing are go routes or other long developing routes. Guys like Ruggs can take a slant all the way to the house.

The threat of the deep speed alone helps the offense and keeps the defense honest.

I'd also say your odds of finding a well rounded speed guy like Ruggs later in the draft are limited but finding a pretty good IOL are better later in the draft.

I definitely think WR is a key need for us with so many unknowns but IOL has to be fixed. I think the team may like Brunskill inside instead of Person and assuming Richburg is back healthy then the pass blocking inside would look a hell of a lot better than i did in the SB.

However I can also certainly see us go with one of the top OTs left on the board at 13 to play RG until Joe is ready to retire and then go WR in a deep class with 31 or after a trade down. I just think we'll be looking at potentially the 4th best OT in the class vs the 1/2 best WR in the class. And to me if Ruggs is there I think he's Kyle's #1 WR.

Interesting thread here...

Regarding the OP, I disagree that you need to take defense first, particularly with the thought that you need to take a DL first. Lynch and Co. seem to be pretty good at finding DL overall, and I think the personnel group works out where you can afford to focus on something else this draft. On defense, edge rusher and CB are the only two positions I can see for #13, but I'm talking only that Okudah fellow at CB or an edge rusher that very well doesn't exist in this draft. If Okudah falls, I think he is really hard to pass up.

Regarding the WR group, it seems like if you assume a poorer OL, Ruggs is the guy, and if you assume a better OL, Jeudy's skill set makes it a tough choice. If you take Jeudy, then maybe you plan on taking Ruiz at #31. If you take Ruggs, then maybe you have more flexibility.

Wouldn't surpise me if #13 was basically designed for Ruggs, but if Okudah somehow falls we take him instead. If neither are available, trade back with Indy for #34 and #44 and have a lot more flexibility including the possibility of DL or Edge with our top pick.
There's an old legend around these parts....

The best defense is an elite offense....
Originally posted by 49ersam-II:
Defo needs a replacement and this draft, we are in a position to actually get a much better prospect than Defo during his rookie year. With all compliments Defo received he never was a pro bowler - watching him over the years, he really lacked the big guy strength that dominates OLs. This draft we can actually get one, ala Reggie White level!

DeFo not a Pro-Bowler? Arguably the best player on the team, only reason he was traded was economics, which I can't object to.
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by TonyStarks:
I agree.

That defensive depth got us to the dance.

however lack of a quality interior offensive line also exposed a major weakness in the super bowl which should be addressed
If we draft a DT with our first pick, I will be irate. That makes the least amount of sense out of any positions I have seen brought up.

I couldnt possibly disagree with the OP more than I do.
[ Edited by SteveWallacesHelmet on Mar 23, 2020 at 11:40 AM ]
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
When I look at the 49er offense last year, you're correct in assessing that we didn't have a WR outside of Sanders who could create consistent separation and have deep speed. I struggle with a WR as the first priority because the reason why our passing game was essentially middle of the field and slant heavy is simply because PP doesn't consistently hold. For me it's not accident that Kittle is a star and a YAC king. If we look at Deebo, it's the same. I don't know if it's that we can't consistently attack deep because we don't have enough speed versus we're not holding up in PP. I see a lot of short passing when I go through and look at 49er passing games, granted prior to Sanders there were separation issues, but more likely than not it appears to be both.

I can't see us taking advantage of an elite WR if we don't have the PP to execute great passing plays. I'd recommend items 1 and 2 are linked.

Thoughts bud?

They are linked but in the case of Ruggs just because he's got blazing speed doesn't mean all you're throwing are go routes or other long developing routes. Guys like Ruggs can take a slant all the way to the house.

The threat of the deep speed alone helps the offense and keeps the defense honest.

I'd also say your odds of finding a well rounded speed guy like Ruggs later in the draft are limited but finding a pretty good IOL are better later in the draft.

I definitely think WR is a key need for us with so many unknowns but IOL has to be fixed. I think the team may like Brunskill inside instead of Person and assuming Richburg is back healthy then the pass blocking inside would look a hell of a lot better than i did in the SB.

However I can also certainly see us go with one of the top OTs left on the board at 13 to play RG until Joe is ready to retire and then go WR in a deep class with 31 or after a trade down. I just think we'll be looking at potentially the 4th best OT in the class vs the 1/2 best WR in the class. And to me if Ruggs is there I think he's Kyle's #1 WR.

So I'd say that only a deep speed where a QB throws and the receiver actually catches the ball keeps defenses honest. When I look at this year's tape when Goodwin did play, people started ignoring his routes because we were taking slants and throwing mid-field almost exclusively. Yes is does have some effect, but not the very threat of one if it's not regularly realized. This works for teams (like the Chiefs) because they prove repeatedly that you'll pay for blitzing. When teams play the 49ers regardless of Goodwin's speed, defense don't believe (1) Jimmy will have enough time to throw and (2) when he does since he's not been doing it often enough in a run-first offense, chances are it won't hit. This is the design of every defense we've seen - make Jimmy beat you, IF you can.

Can a guy like Ruggs consistently get open? I have no doubt that he can and will but will the slant be open? Will Jimmy get the ball batted in his face because the OL isn't forcing DL to protect themselves keeping their hands down by punching properly or opening up passing lanes?

They may like Brunskill but I think our opinion of Brunskill may be higher than the coaches and the team. From film, I can only speculate that we're scheming around asking Brunskill to repeatedly being on a blocking island as a tackle (though we gradually asked him to do more and more) and since there isn't a ton of film on him at OG, I'm not so sure this is the answer yet. I think that's confirmed by the tender (1 year) the team has put on him while signing a Shanny vet from the Jets. This has all the makings of a camp competition in addition to someone we'll draft. Brunskill might be the answer, but that has yet to be seen and he'll again have to earn a starting role. Nothing will be given.

I do agree with the point that it's easier to find more talent at the top of the draft. However I think for OL, the deeper you get in the draft, the more development is needed and the longer it takes to add to shaky competition we have at IOL today. Our WRs going into the season save one are essentially healthy. I know we'll probably draft a WR. However our issues at OL are much more acute IMHO. We assume Richburg will be back according to him but haven't heard from Kyle or John give on this. Also Richburg has been hurt every season since being a Niner. For Kyle if there's one player that's second in importance to QB, it's OC. We have Garland in place but IMHO, that puts even more pressure on the guards to play well. And Person being unceremoniously cut tells me they really want more out of the position.

In any event, I agree, we have to come out of this off-season with both. I'm not as concerned about the order as I am about the player - both need to be able to compete with who we have on Day 1. That being said, I think there's a greater chance of a 2nd round WR (I'm assuming we'll be trading down with at least one of those picks) being able to compete with the WRs we have than a 2nd or 3rd round OG/OC being able to displace Garland or Compton or Brunskill.
[ Edited by NinerGM on Mar 23, 2020 at 2:00 PM ]
Originally posted by NinerGM:
So I'd say that only a deep speed where a QB throws and the receiver actually catches the ball keeps defenses honest. When I look at this year's tape when Goodwin did play, people started ignoring his routes because we were taking slants and throwing mid-field almost exclusively. Yes is does have some effect, but not the very threat of one if it's not regularly realized. This works for teams (like the Chiefs) because they prove repeatedly that you'll pay for blitzing. When teams play the 49ers regardless of Goodwin's speed, defense don't believe (1) Jimmy will have enough time to throw and (2) when he does since he's not been doing it often enough in a run-first offense, chances are it won't hit. This is the design of every defense we've seen - make Jimmy beat you, IF you can.

Can a guy like Ruggs consistently get open? I have no doubt that he can and will but will the slant be open? Will Jimmy get the ball batted in his face because the OL isn't forcing DL to protect themselves keeping their hands down by punching properly or opening up passing lanes?

They may like Brunskill but I don't think our opinion of Brunskill may be higher than the coaches and the team. From film, I can only speculate that we're scheming around asking Brunskill to repeatedly being on a blocking island as a tackle (though we gradually asked him to do more and more) and since there isn't a ton of film on him at OG, I'm not so sure this is the answer yet. I think that's confirmed by the tender (1 year) the team has put on him while signing a Shanny vet from the Jets. This has all the makings of a camp competition in addition to someone we'll draft. Brunskill might be the answer, but that has yet to be seen and he'll again have to earn a starting role. Nothing will be given.

I do agree with the point that it's easier to find more talent at the top of the draft. However I think for OL, the deeper you get in the draft, the more development is needed and the longer it takes to add to shaky competition we have at IOL today. Our WRs going into the season save one are essentially healthy. I know we'll probably draft a WR. However our issues at OL are much more acute IMHO. We assume Richburg will be back according to him but haven't heard from Kyle or John give us 49ers docs. Also Richburg has been hurt every season since being a Niner. For Kyle if there's one player that's second in importance to QB, it's OC. We have Garland in place but IMHO, that puts even more pressure on the guards to play well. And Person being unceremoniously cut tells me they really want more out of the position.

In any event, I agree, we have to come out of this off-season with both. I'm not as concerned about the order as I am about the player - both need to be able to compete with who we have on Day 1. That being said, I think there's a greater chance of a 2nd round WR (I'm assuming we'll be trading down with at least one of those picks) being able to compete with the WRs we have than a 2nd or 3rd round OG/OC being able to displace Garland or Compton or Brunskill.

Very good post GM, I am with everything you said and I think pretty much everyone else does as well. It's a glaring weakness and they rely on each other. If Jimmy has less time to throw then we need a receiver they can get open sooner. If we wait on a receiver but get a great player to play guard than our current receivers won't look as bad and have more opportunities.

The way I see it now if we don't trade for Odell Beckham Jr. might as well get one of those premier receivers at 13 and possibly trade down at 31 (unless Ruiz is there) then we can get that big boy from Temple to play center or guard in the second round
[ Edited by elguapo on Mar 23, 2020 at 1:16 PM ]
People are assuming that the 13 pick is a lock for San Francisco, I'm not sure that it is. If the guy they want at 13 is picked it's quite possible they trade down a few slots and pick up and 2nd or 3rd round pick afterwards.

It's clear that the team needs somebody on the interior to supplant the current group, but is that good value at 13? Unless you are a tackle, that ain't happening.

At WR, the team wants to move on from Goodwin and has lost Sanders. Any way you slice it, that group is underwhelming. Just for fun, I think Ceedee Lamb is the best WR in this draft.
[ Edited by bzborow1 on Mar 23, 2020 at 3:54 PM ]
Let's not overthink this...WR is a huge position of need. There are three stud receivers in this draft. We already have a ton of resources and talent invested in the DL. Let's get our WR in the draft and sign a veteran DT (Suh?).

Originally posted by bzborow1:
People are assuming that the 13 pick is a lock for San Francisco, I'm not sure that it is. If the guy they want at 13 is picked it's quite possible they trade down a few slots and pick up and 2nd or 3rd round pick afterwards.

It's clear that the team needs somebody on the interior to supplant the current group, but is that good value at 13? Unless you are a tackle, that ain't happening. At WR, the team wants to move on from Goodwin and has lost Sanders. Any way you slice it, that group is underwhelming.

In my opinion the best scenario would be to give the 31st pick for Odell Beckham Jr. that way we have receiver covered and not to worry the Space of about 60 million next year will be more than enough to afford him going forward. Then we trade back from the 13th pick in order to get a second and third or second and fourth depending how far back we trade. This would be the best case scenario. I hope we do this because as we all seen Seattle got Quinton Dunbar so now our receivers won't be able to do as good against them and the Cardinals got Hopkins so both of those teams improved and we got worse.
Originally posted by tjd808185:
The team still has 4 1st rounders on the d line. It will be just fine providing they can stay healthy.

Stop including thomas in the pr.
[ Edited by brodiebluebanaszak on Mar 23, 2020 at 4:00 PM ]
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
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Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
The team still has 4 1st rounders on the d line. It will be just fine providing they can stay healthy.

Stop including thomas in the pr.8

thank you. thomas has not even been fine
Yea our number1 need is iol.

Our number 2 need is wr preferably vet.

Our number three need is a replacement for the 600 snaps we WONT get from ford next year.

Our number 4 need is idl depth with jones taylor day and givens to pick from.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
They may like Brunskill but I think our opinion of Brunskill may be higher than the coaches and the team. From film, I can only speculate that we're scheming around asking Brunskill to repeatedly being on a blocking island as a tackle (though we gradually asked him to do more and more) and since there isn't a ton of film on him at OG, I'm not so sure this is the answer yet. I think that's confirmed by the tender (1 year) the team has put on him while signing a Shanny vet from the Jets. This has all the makings of a camp competition in addition to someone we'll draft. Brunskill might be the answer, but that has yet to be seen and he'll again have to earn a starting role. Nothing will be given.

I hate to nitpick what was a pretty good post, but can you elaborate on this? Can you also elaborate on why you have this general opinion to begin with? Brunskill was amazing in pass protection last year. Think I saw a tweet that said he allowed pressure on like 3% of his pass snaps, which was top 10 in the NFL.

I think he has more than earned the right to be a starter, nor do I see this as giving it to him. He played his ass off last year.
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