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SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS at BALTIMORE RAVENS - 2019 Game 12

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Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by PuckFarag10:
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by 808niner4lyphe:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
They should have just hit Lamar at the mesh pt regardless if he hands it off. He just reads the DE and kept it every time. I'd much rather have a RB try to smash it up the middle with a pile of DL and LBers waiting vs giving Lamar the edge to run free for like 5 yds.

Imo it was a bad game plan overall. Hopefully if we play them again it changes a little.

This.. I'd rather take away LJ because he has more of a chance to break a big run on the edges than Ingram with that crowded middle of the field.

Yep, you cannot allow LJ to get to the outside untouched as he was for the first half. Take your chances with Ingram up the middle but don't allow Jackson a free 3-5 yards just be getting outside.

Greg Cosell made an interesting comment about Jackson. GC doesn't think Bal is really running a RPO. He thinks Jackson is running on called plays. The mesh point stuff is just window dressing to help him get to the edge. ???

Lamar is essentially Kap with a quicker release, and fresh bones for quaint acceleration (none of that baseball pitcher wind up stuff). I really think the Ravens are gonna hope and pray they can steal a Superbowl this year (or next) before Lamar either becomes crippled, or gets figured out. Dude is essentially just RGIII behind an elite o-line, anchored by a top 5 rushing defense which relies on blowouts to pad stats.

I see nothing wrong with this observation. This is exactly what the Ravens are after with LJ moonlighting as a FQB. As you said he either gets figured out, hurt, and I'll add one more in that he'll fizzle out. Meaning that he won't evolve his game enough to stay in the league. He'd have to become the next Russell Wilson, but I don't know if he can. He flashes ability as a passer but likes to take off and run too often.

Agree. Lamar is the kind of QB that potentially Kaep could have turned into. Colin just needed a better supporting cast. Having said that, the offense is a bit boring and it's a dangerous offense (injury wise ) for a nfl level franchise QB to run.

Ideally, the ultimate final evolution of these athletic QB's (Colin or Lamar) is the Steve Young model. He was an awesome pocket QB that could burn you with his legs and 4.4 speed. I kind of see right handed Midget Wilson as a poor man's version of a left handed Steve Young.


What?!?!?!? Kaepernick had as good of a supporting cast as any quarterback could ask for...good head coach,elite defense,strong OLine, stud running back, pro bowl TE, 2 solid receivers. Most nfl QBs, even some of the best would die for that kind of supporting cast. Kaepernick didn't work out because he wasn't good. League adjusted to him and he never responded period
[ Edited by Aj_hwd954 on Jan 3, 2020 at 1:13 PM ]
Originally posted by Aj_hwd954:
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by PuckFarag10:
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by 808niner4lyphe:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
They should have just hit Lamar at the mesh pt regardless if he hands it off. He just reads the DE and kept it every time. I'd much rather have a RB try to smash it up the middle with a pile of DL and LBers waiting vs giving Lamar the edge to run free for like 5 yds.

Imo it was a bad game plan overall. Hopefully if we play them again it changes a little.

This.. I'd rather take away LJ because he has more of a chance to break a big run on the edges than Ingram with that crowded middle of the field.

Yep, you cannot allow LJ to get to the outside untouched as he was for the first half. Take your chances with Ingram up the middle but don't allow Jackson a free 3-5 yards just be getting outside.

Greg Cosell made an interesting comment about Jackson. GC doesn't think Bal is really running a RPO. He thinks Jackson is running on called plays. The mesh point stuff is just window dressing to help him get to the edge. ???

Lamar is essentially Kap with a quicker release, and fresh bones for quaint acceleration (none of that baseball pitcher wind up stuff). I really think the Ravens are gonna hope and pray they can steal a Superbowl this year (or next) before Lamar either becomes crippled, or gets figured out. Dude is essentially just RGIII behind an elite o-line, anchored by a top 5 rushing defense which relies on blowouts to pad stats.

I see nothing wrong with this observation. This is exactly what the Ravens are after with LJ moonlighting as a FQB. As you said he either gets figured out, hurt, and I'll add one more in that he'll fizzle out. Meaning that he won't evolve his game enough to stay in the league. He'd have to become the next Russell Wilson, but I don't know if he can. He flashes ability as a passer but likes to take off and run too often.

Agree. Lamar is the kind of QB that potentially Kaep could have turned into. Colin just needed a better supporting cast. Having said that, the offense is a bit boring and it's a dangerous offense (injury wise ) for a nfl level franchise QB to run.

Ideally, the ultimate final evolution of these athletic QB's (Colin or Lamar) is the Steve Young model. He was an awesome pocket QB that could burn you with his legs and 4.4 speed. I kind of see right handed Midget Wilson as a poor man's version of a left handed Steve Young.


What?!?!?!? Kaepernick had as good of a supporting cast as any quarterback could ask for...good head coach,elite defense,strong OLine, stud running back, pro bowl TE, 2 solid receivers. Most nfl QBs, even some of the best would die for that kind of supporting cast. Kaepernick didn't work out because he wasn't good. League adjusted to him and he never responded period

That defense looked real elite in the 2012 playoffs. I've seen QBs do less with far more (Phillip Rivers and Matt Ryan come to mind). Kap is the reason the team even made it to the Super Bowl. He had them in position to make another if it wasnt for a bad decision by him to go at Sherman. Those teams in 2015 and 16 were unwatchable. Where are the starting receivers from those squads?

When he had a good supporting cast, they won. Even the 2014 team was 7-4 at one point and looking like they had another playoff run in them. But the rumors and nonsense with the front office doomed that team.

I've said before dude wasn't an elite QB but no one can say then or now there are 32 better QBs than him.
[ Edited by LifelongNiner on Jan 4, 2020 at 11:08 AM ]
Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
That defense looked real elite in the 2012 playoffs. I've seen QBs do less with far more (Phillip Rivers and Matt Ryan come to mind). Kap is the reason the team even made it to the Super Bowl. He had them in position to make another if it wasnt for a bad decision by him to go at Sherman. Those teams in 2015 and 16 were unwatchable. Where are the starting receivers from those squads?

When he had a good supporting cast, they won. Even the 2014 team was 7-4 at one point and looking like they had another playoff run in them. But the rumors and nonsense with the front office doomed that team.

I've said before dude wasn't an elite QB but no one can say then or now there are 32 better QBs than him.

Sorry, have to call BS on that comment, but I'll just leave it at that for the sake of everyone's sanity.
  • Giedi
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Originally posted by 49ers81:
Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
That defense looked real elite in the 2012 playoffs. I've seen QBs do less with far more (Phillip Rivers and Matt Ryan come to mind). Kap is the reason the team even made it to the Super Bowl. He had them in position to make another if it wasnt for a bad decision by him to go at Sherman. Those teams in 2015 and 16 were unwatchable. Where are the starting receivers from those squads?

When he had a good supporting cast, they won. Even the 2014 team was 7-4 at one point and looking like they had another playoff run in them. But the rumors and nonsense with the front office doomed that team.

I've said before dude wasn't an elite QB but no one can say then or now there are 32 better QBs than him.

Sorry, have to call BS on that comment, but I'll just leave it at that for the sake of everyone's sanity.

In the right kind of offense, Colin would be today's Lamar Jackson. However, that isnt the west coast offense that 49er fans want or are clamoring for.
  • Kyzen
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Ravens wont make the super bowl
Originally posted by Giedi:
In the right kind of offense, Colin would be today's Lamar Jackson. However, that isnt the west coast offense that 49er fans want or are clamoring for.


Sorry, don't agree with that either. I think a better analogy is that Lamar Jackson is a more polished version of what everyone thought Kaepernick was. He is far more elusive as a runner and has a much more compact throwing motion. Kaepernick's long stride and long throwing motion really restricted his abilities and his apparent indifference to improving his mechanics doomed him as a starter in this league. I think if he and Jim Harbaugh could have demonstrated that their particular style of play was a system that could produce wins consistently the fans wouldn't have cared that much one way or the other.

John Harbaugh will have the same challenge moving forward as defensive coaches will have the entire off season to watch film and try to figure out what they can do to slow Jackson and the Raven's offense down. At the moment that team is in the same boat as the Seahawks, they both have QB's who are largely responsible for the success of their offenses. Take Wilson and Jackson out of the picture and those teams are not nearly as formidable as they might seem.

On the other hand Kyle Shanahan's offense is built almost entirely around the scheme as long as he has a QB who understands it and can execute it the team will continue to be competitive, as it showed with Nick Mullens in 2018. Does having a superior player at the position make a difference? Absolutely, but I would be willing to bet that the Niners would be more successful with their current backup starting for an extended period than either the Seahawks or Ravens would be with their backups.
[ Edited by 49ers81 on Jan 4, 2020 at 4:52 PM ]
Chiefs are gonna scrape them.
Has Lamar himself actually had a bad game yet? Even during the Browns game he played well throwing for 3 touchdowns. And wasn't the last MVP to win the Super Bowl Kurt Warner in 99? Dude's been absolutely dominant this year in every aspect 14-2 speaks for itself but I wouldn't be shocked if he has a letdown in the postseason everything evens out
  • mayo49
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Originally posted by 49ersGiantspride:
Has Lamar himself actually had a bad game yet? Even during the Browns game he played well throwing for 3 touchdowns. And wasn't the last MVP to win the Super Bowl Kurt Warner in 99? Dude's been absolutely dominant this year in every aspect 14-2 speaks for itself but I wouldn't be shocked if he has a letdown in the postseason everything evens out

The guy all of a sudden is a pro bowl passer - he was all run in college.
  • Giedi
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Originally posted by Aj_hwd954:
What?!?!?!? Kaepernick had as good of a supporting cast as any quarterback could ask for...good head coach,elite defense,strong OLine, stud running back, pro bowl TE, 2 solid receivers. Most nfl QBs, even some of the best would die for that kind of supporting cast. Kaepernick didn't work out because he wasn't good. League adjusted to him and he never responded period

Disagree. How was Baalke's WR picks? AJ Jenkins anybody?

Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by Aj_hwd954:
What?!?!?!? Kaepernick had as good of a supporting cast as any quarterback could ask for...good head coach,elite defense,strong OLine, stud running back, pro bowl TE, 2 solid receivers. Most nfl QBs, even some of the best would die for that kind of supporting cast. Kaepernick didn't work out because he wasn't good. League adjusted to him and he never responded period

Disagree. How was Baalke's WR picks? AJ Jenkins anybody?

You're reaching, AJ Jenkins barely saw the felid. Those Anquan Boldin & Michael Crabtree guys were pretty good, add in Vernon Davis and any other starting QB would easily have a pro bowl season with those weapons
[ Edited by Aj_hwd954 on Jan 5, 2020 at 5:05 AM ]
  • Giedi
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  • Posts: 15,816
Originally posted by 49ers81:
Originally posted by Giedi:
In the right kind of offense, Colin would be today's Lamar Jackson. However, that isnt the west coast offense that 49er fans want or are clamoring for.


Sorry, don't agree with that either. I think a better analogy is that Lamar Jackson is a more polished version of what everyone thought Kaepernick was. He is far more elusive as a runner and has a much more compact throwing motion. Kaepernick's long stride and long throwing motion really restricted his abilities and his apparent indifference to improving his mechanics doomed him as a starter in this league. I think if he and Jim Harbaugh could have demonstrated that their particular style of play was a system that could produce wins consistently the fans wouldn't have cared that much one way or the other.

John Harbaugh will have the same challenge moving forward as defensive coaches will have the entire off season to watch film and try to figure out what they can do to slow Jackson and the Raven's offense down. At the moment that team is in the same boat as the Seahawks, they both have QB's who are largely responsible for the success of their offenses. Take Wilson and Jackson out of the picture and those teams are not nearly as formidable as they might seem.

On the other hand Kyle Shanahan's offense is built almost entirely around the scheme as long as he has a QB who understands it and can execute it the team will continue to be competitive, as it showed with Nick Mullens in 2018. Does having a superior player at the position make a difference? Absolutely, but I would be willing to bet that the Niners would be more successful with their current backup starting for an extended period than either the Seahawks or Ravens would be with their backups.
That was my point actually. If given the chance and some decent WR's and he was given a chance to develop, I think he would have developed into a version of Lamar Jackson. I know a lot of folks here say he was more a workout warrior than a cerebral QB, with no touch, and cant read basic coverages, and I can see that. But steve young had the same problems when he was beginning his career too. Not saying he would become a hall of Famer, no, but what I am saying is he had a shot at becoming a poor man's version of Lamar jackson. But with the firing of Harbaugh, Colin never really had a shot, and the Baalke drafts were atrocious.

Having said that, I'm totally excited about Jimmy and Kyle, and I think with those two plus Bosa, were hands down in a way better situation than even when we lost to the Ravens, from an overall player and coaching talent perspective.
  • Giedi
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  • Posts: 15,816
Originally posted by Aj_hwd954:
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by Aj_hwd954:
What?!?!?!? Kaepernick had as good of a supporting cast as any quarterback could ask for...good head coach,elite defense,strong OLine, stud running back, pro bowl TE, 2 solid receivers. Most nfl QBs, even some of the best would die for that kind of supporting cast. Kaepernick didn't work out because he wasn't good. League adjusted to him and he never responded period

Disagree. How was Baalke's WR picks? AJ Jenkins anybody?

You're reaching, AJ Jenkins barely saw the felid. Those Anquan Boldin & Michael Crabtree guys were pretty good, add in Vernon Davis and any other starting QB would easily have a pro bowl season with those weapons

Bullcrap, those WR's were slow as molasses or had brick hands and couldn't catch a cold in a ICU room full of flue virus victims.
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by Aj_hwd954:
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by Aj_hwd954:
What?!?!?!? Kaepernick had as good of a supporting cast as any quarterback could ask for...good head coach,elite defense,strong OLine, stud running back, pro bowl TE, 2 solid receivers. Most nfl QBs, even some of the best would die for that kind of supporting cast. Kaepernick didn't work out because he wasn't good. League adjusted to him and he never responded period

Disagree. How was Baalke's WR picks? AJ Jenkins anybody?

You're reaching, AJ Jenkins barely saw the felid. Those Anquan Boldin & Michael Crabtree guys were pretty good, add in Vernon Davis and any other starting QB would easily have a pro bowl season with those weapons

Bullcrap, those WR's were slow as molasses or had brick hands and couldn't catch a cold in a ICU room full of flue virus victims.

Slow? Maybe. But if you really think they had brick hands, you must have bumped your head.
Originally posted by Giedi:
Bullcrap, those WR's were slow as molasses or had brick hands and couldn't catch a cold in a ICU room full of flue virus victims.

We needed speed at WR because teams were playing eight in the box and only feared the speed of VD. All they had to do was not let VD get behind them because otherwise we had no deep threat to make them pay for stacking the box vs the run. Had we had speed on the outside we could have made teams make more difficult decisions. The offense sputtered every time VD missed time
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