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How much better are the 49ers than the Rams?
May 22, 2019 at 8:50 PM
- titan
- Veteran
- Posts: 7,839
3-4 games better this year.
May 23, 2019 at 12:20 AM
- BoldRedandGold
- Member
- Posts: 2,511
Originally posted by OldJoe:So then bet away ..... Niners over 8 must look like such easy money to someone with this much zeal.
Rams are the team to beat in our Division no one outside of our homies would disagree with that.
Without gourley, Goff will be wrecked badly. The rams also lost depth this offseason. Gourley is so integral I think they fall outside the top 10 teams.
[ Edited by BoldRedandGold on May 23, 2019 at 12:21 AM ]
May 23, 2019 at 5:42 AM
- titan
- Veteran
- Posts: 7,839
Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:Originally posted by OldJoe:So then bet away ..... Niners over 8 must look like such easy money to someone with this much zeal.
Rams are the team to beat in our Division no one outside of our homies would disagree with that.
Without gourley, Goff will be wrecked badly. The rams also lost depth this offseason. Gourley is so integral I think they fall outside the top 10 teams.
Agree. A healthy Odd Gurley makes any QB that much better. But the Rams D-Line is a game changer!
May 23, 2019 at 8:19 AM
- JTsBiggestFan
- Veteran
- Posts: 7,691
Originally posted by philosoraptor:
The Rams are very good on paper, but also very vulnerable. Their defense is very flawed, same with their offense. The OL is another year older, they lost saffold. Also Goff got exposed towards the end of last year, he needs certain level of structure around him, once thats taken away he is mediocre. Also need to factor in a superbowl hangover.
THe niners still have a lot to prove on offense and defense. The secondary is also very flawed. Niners need a lot to break their way to be a playoff team. I dont think the gap is that large at this point.
But if I were a betting man, Id bet the rams have a better record.
Superbowl hangover is real. After the Niners lost their last one, I saw a stat that said the last time a SB loser went back and won the SB the following year was 1971/1972 when the Dolphins went undefeated after losing to the Cowboys the year prior.
It was broken recently by the Patriots by winning the SB this year after losing to the Eagles the last year, but of course they are the anomaly in all of this.
Also a majority of the SB winning teams since 2004 have failed to win a playoff game/qualify for playoffs. Only teams that succeeded were 2013 Seahawks, 2014 Patriots, 2016/2017 Patriots.
I haven't tracked the SB losing teams, but they only do a little bit better in the playoffs but outside of the Patriots, they haven't threatened a Lombardi in close to 50 years.
So that's the best news I can provide regarding historical trends on why the Rams won't win it this year.
May 23, 2019 at 8:47 AM
- JTsBiggestFan
- Veteran
- Posts: 7,691
I think it took exposure to a really good team in the most important game of the year for the Rams luster to finally wear off. It wasn't enough of course that Fangio's Bears shut them down very decisively ("blame it on cold weather and playing in Soldier Field"), or that the Eagles continued to give them problems.
This last Super Bowl to me showed me a few things about the LA Rams, some I was contemplating season long:
a) Goff is a decent but not prime time QB (yet?). It pains me to no end to write this, but at the bottom barrel of points scared in this game, even a RUSSELL WILSON would have done more. Wilson would never have been able to keep up in a 54-51 type of game like Goff did because he's not a high volume elite thrower, but we all know that in 60 minutes Wilson could make at least 2-3 throws that would have gotten more than 3 points probably. Me of all people on this freaking website saying this (with possible exception of elguapo), carries a little weight.....LMFAO.
b) McVay built an offense more around explosion than battle tested playoff warfare. He's got the 11 personnel, 3 WR sets locked down very well, possibly even better than Shanahan since he runs it so much. The big problem was that predictability will always kill you against elite coaches. Anyone remember the 1990 season when the Giants managed to shut down our run game with nickel defense in two games that year?? Most of it was Roger Craig's ineffectiveness due to his knee injury and not so much our OC, but it highlights potential issues. McVay did some good work against the Cowboys with the running game, but that was it pretty much. Belichick found a way to limit that running game, confuse Goff, and make much of the Rams offense impotent.
c) Gurley for whatever reason, injury related or not, couldn't hack it on the big stage. The reliance on a stud to do so much for your team can become a problem very quick when he's not even in peak condition, let alone facing a good DC to remove his effectiveness. CJ Anderson wasn't going to win this Super Bowl by himself.
d) Aaron Donald - it was said in that NFL Films video that the Patriots won this game by neutralizing Donald. Without doing that, they lose.......or something to that effect. I think it's a somewhat fair argument considering how little the Patriots scored while neutralizing the hell out of him. The amount of plays they embarrassed him I lost track of.
So there you have it. You have a few chinks of the armor which if not resolved over the course of the next few years is IMHO, the downfall of a good team at least when considering championship aspirations. The Chiefs who are of similar ilk, I believe will win a SB before the Rams will because while they too have their flaws, they showed more to me overall than the Rams did.
In comparing the Rams to the 49ers, you have to like what we have in Jimmy G and Kyle:
a) I've seen enough film on Jimmy to like more of his natural talent, but more importantly his battle tested resilience I very much feel is the best we've had going back to Steve Young, and hopefully maybe Joe Montana.
b) Kyle has been building an offense that will be very tough to stop schematically. DCs may fear players on other teams more, but not the 49ers scheme to stop every single thing we can possibly throw at them. Just consider that Harbaugh/Roman had a top OL, a dual threat QB, a great RB, two really good TEs, some solid WRs and still that offense was never as natural as what Shanahan has put out with Jimmy, even MULLENS. Sure the 2012 and maybe even the 2013 49er offenses had flashier plays, but without an elite defense, would have not seen those plays as often (the story of the 2014 season).
Kyle gave Belichick a lot of problems last time they faced off, and you can bet he will again next year in Foxborough when Jimmy returns!
c) I easily prefer our entire RB group over a guy that couldn't hack it in the SB. After seeing Breida ball out last year, teams should be scared of our RB group when elite receiving talents like McKinnon and Coleman are on the same team, and Kyle's coaching gets the most out of RBs in the pass AND run game.
d) The 49ers certainly closed the gap and have overtaken on the DL IMO - too much reverence has been given to Aaron Donald. Perhaps physically that may be the case, and against most teams it's probably true...........but the guy is far from infallible. Besides being ineffective in the Bowl, does anyone here remember him being ejected in a 28-0 opener loss to our Chip Kelly Niners??? You know, the same Rams that the week after held the Seahawks to 3 points at home.....
Donald is great and might still be the best singular DL talent in the league, but Buckner is pretty close, and now with Ford/Bosa on the edges and Solomon Thomas strictly inside, it's gonna be problematic.
Pasodoc49er covered the rest of the points very well. The two teams are much closer this year than you would think, with a massive chunk of last year being injuries to our team and Jimmy's absence.
The Rams have better (more proven/healthy) DBs and a better DC. That much I think you will find no resistance from Niner fans.....the question is, will their deficiencies in other areas cost them more?
Remains to be seen. The Niners had the best DC and best LBs in the NFL for a few years.....was that a slam dunk for our team?
This last Super Bowl to me showed me a few things about the LA Rams, some I was contemplating season long:
a) Goff is a decent but not prime time QB (yet?). It pains me to no end to write this, but at the bottom barrel of points scared in this game, even a RUSSELL WILSON would have done more. Wilson would never have been able to keep up in a 54-51 type of game like Goff did because he's not a high volume elite thrower, but we all know that in 60 minutes Wilson could make at least 2-3 throws that would have gotten more than 3 points probably. Me of all people on this freaking website saying this (with possible exception of elguapo), carries a little weight.....LMFAO.
b) McVay built an offense more around explosion than battle tested playoff warfare. He's got the 11 personnel, 3 WR sets locked down very well, possibly even better than Shanahan since he runs it so much. The big problem was that predictability will always kill you against elite coaches. Anyone remember the 1990 season when the Giants managed to shut down our run game with nickel defense in two games that year?? Most of it was Roger Craig's ineffectiveness due to his knee injury and not so much our OC, but it highlights potential issues. McVay did some good work against the Cowboys with the running game, but that was it pretty much. Belichick found a way to limit that running game, confuse Goff, and make much of the Rams offense impotent.
c) Gurley for whatever reason, injury related or not, couldn't hack it on the big stage. The reliance on a stud to do so much for your team can become a problem very quick when he's not even in peak condition, let alone facing a good DC to remove his effectiveness. CJ Anderson wasn't going to win this Super Bowl by himself.
d) Aaron Donald - it was said in that NFL Films video that the Patriots won this game by neutralizing Donald. Without doing that, they lose.......or something to that effect. I think it's a somewhat fair argument considering how little the Patriots scored while neutralizing the hell out of him. The amount of plays they embarrassed him I lost track of.
So there you have it. You have a few chinks of the armor which if not resolved over the course of the next few years is IMHO, the downfall of a good team at least when considering championship aspirations. The Chiefs who are of similar ilk, I believe will win a SB before the Rams will because while they too have their flaws, they showed more to me overall than the Rams did.
In comparing the Rams to the 49ers, you have to like what we have in Jimmy G and Kyle:
a) I've seen enough film on Jimmy to like more of his natural talent, but more importantly his battle tested resilience I very much feel is the best we've had going back to Steve Young, and hopefully maybe Joe Montana.
b) Kyle has been building an offense that will be very tough to stop schematically. DCs may fear players on other teams more, but not the 49ers scheme to stop every single thing we can possibly throw at them. Just consider that Harbaugh/Roman had a top OL, a dual threat QB, a great RB, two really good TEs, some solid WRs and still that offense was never as natural as what Shanahan has put out with Jimmy, even MULLENS. Sure the 2012 and maybe even the 2013 49er offenses had flashier plays, but without an elite defense, would have not seen those plays as often (the story of the 2014 season).
Kyle gave Belichick a lot of problems last time they faced off, and you can bet he will again next year in Foxborough when Jimmy returns!
c) I easily prefer our entire RB group over a guy that couldn't hack it in the SB. After seeing Breida ball out last year, teams should be scared of our RB group when elite receiving talents like McKinnon and Coleman are on the same team, and Kyle's coaching gets the most out of RBs in the pass AND run game.
d) The 49ers certainly closed the gap and have overtaken on the DL IMO - too much reverence has been given to Aaron Donald. Perhaps physically that may be the case, and against most teams it's probably true...........but the guy is far from infallible. Besides being ineffective in the Bowl, does anyone here remember him being ejected in a 28-0 opener loss to our Chip Kelly Niners??? You know, the same Rams that the week after held the Seahawks to 3 points at home.....
Donald is great and might still be the best singular DL talent in the league, but Buckner is pretty close, and now with Ford/Bosa on the edges and Solomon Thomas strictly inside, it's gonna be problematic.
Pasodoc49er covered the rest of the points very well. The two teams are much closer this year than you would think, with a massive chunk of last year being injuries to our team and Jimmy's absence.
The Rams have better (more proven/healthy) DBs and a better DC. That much I think you will find no resistance from Niner fans.....the question is, will their deficiencies in other areas cost them more?
Remains to be seen. The Niners had the best DC and best LBs in the NFL for a few years.....was that a slam dunk for our team?
May 23, 2019 at 9:18 AM
- Izyniner
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,369
The rams currently have two spots on the O line settled Lt and Rt. They are trying to figure out the other three spots by plugging in rookies and young players that have very little experience. There is no way there line is currently better than the niners. If they don't get there line right they are in trouble.
May 23, 2019 at 9:44 AM
- elguapo
- Veteran
- Posts: 25,083
Originally posted by Mankster:Oh yeah...he earned it. Pfft!
I know right. The rams were exposed in the playoffs like last year to the falcons at home when goff and Mcvay choked. This year the saints we all know beat them but either way setting a sb record for futility is a hard accomplishment. Especially against an above average defense. Great job rams
Niners have a better
Qb
Pass rush
Lbs
Run d
Te
OL now that the rams lost their starting C and guard
The rams have a better
Rb if healthy but not depth
Wrs
Secondary
[ Edited by elguapo on May 23, 2019 at 9:48 AM ]
May 23, 2019 at 3:03 PM
- GarnerValleyFan
- Veteran
- Posts: 511
Originally posted by elguapo:
Originally posted by Mankster:
Oh yeah...he earned it. Pfft!
I know right. The rams were exposed in the playoffs like last year to the falcons at home when goff and Mcvay choked. This year the saints we all know beat them but either way setting a sb record for futility is a hard accomplishment. Especially against an above average defense. Great job rams
Niners have a better
Qb
Pass rush
Lbs
Run d
Te
OL now that the rams lost their starting C and guard
The rams have a better
Rb if healthy but not depth
Wrs
Secondary
All of that and we have way better coaching, I feel like both Mullens and GQ and better than Goff. Our secondary with a healthy Sherm is better than the Lambs.
We are top to bottom better than the Lambs, we will sweep them this year.
May 25, 2019 at 5:39 PM
- LVJay
- Veteran
- Posts: 27,847
Originally posted by GarnerValleyFan:
All of that and we have way better coaching, I feel like both Mullens and GQ and better than Goff. Our secondary with a healthy Sherm is better than the Lambs.
We are top to bottom better than the Lambs, we will sweep them this year.
This one knows math!
May 25, 2019 at 8:29 PM
- FL9er
- Veteran
- Posts: 10,793
The Rams are better. They have more blue chippers than SF. What is going to hurt us, is the secondary. That's what we need to address in order to close the gap.
May 25, 2019 at 9:03 PM
- GoreGoreGore
- 10HourChicken
- Posts: 54,076
They got a bit worse, but still very good. And Goff has another year now of improvement. They are easily a 10 win team.
May 25, 2019 at 10:27 PM
- jcs
- Veteran
- Posts: 38,582
Rams made it to the Super Bowl....the 49ers won 4 games.
We aren't that close.
We aren't that close.
May 26, 2019 at 8:47 AM
- 91til
- Veteran
- Posts: 1,819
Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:I think it took exposure to a really good team in the most important game of the year for the Rams luster to finally wear off. It wasn't enough of course that Fangio's Bears shut them down very decisively ("blame it on cold weather and playing in Soldier Field"), or that the Eagles continued to give them problems.
This last Super Bowl to me showed me a few things about the LA Rams, some I was contemplating season long:
a) Goff is a decent but not prime time QB (yet?). It pains me to no end to write this, but at the bottom barrel of points scared in this game, even a RUSSELL WILSON would have done more. Wilson would never have been able to keep up in a 54-51 type of game like Goff did because he's not a high volume elite thrower, but we all know that in 60 minutes Wilson could make at least 2-3 throws that would have gotten more than 3 points probably. Me of all people on this freaking website saying this (with possible exception of elguapo), carries a little weight.....LMFAO.
b) McVay built an offense more around explosion than battle tested playoff warfare. He's got the 11 personnel, 3 WR sets locked down very well, possibly even better than Shanahan since he runs it so much. The big problem was that predictability will always kill you against elite coaches. Anyone remember the 1990 season when the Giants managed to shut down our run game with nickel defense in two games that year?? Most of it was Roger Craig's ineffectiveness due to his knee injury and not so much our OC, but it highlights potential issues. McVay did some good work against the Cowboys with the running game, but that was it pretty much. Belichick found a way to limit that running game, confuse Goff, and make much of the Rams offense impotent.
c) Gurley for whatever reason, injury related or not, couldn't hack it on the big stage. The reliance on a stud to do so much for your team can become a problem very quick when he's not even in peak condition, let alone facing a good DC to remove his effectiveness. CJ Anderson wasn't going to win this Super Bowl by himself.
d) Aaron Donald - it was said in that NFL Films video that the Patriots won this game by neutralizing Donald. Without doing that, they lose.......or something to that effect. I think it's a somewhat fair argument considering how little the Patriots scored while neutralizing the hell out of him. The amount of plays they embarrassed him I lost track of.
So there you have it. You have a few chinks of the armor which if not resolved over the course of the next few years is IMHO, the downfall of a good team at least when considering championship aspirations. The Chiefs who are of similar ilk, I believe will win a SB before the Rams will because while they too have their flaws, they showed more to me overall than the Rams did.
In comparing the Rams to the 49ers, you have to like what we have in Jimmy G and Kyle:
a) I've seen enough film on Jimmy to like more of his natural talent, but more importantly his battle tested resilience I very much feel is the best we've had going back to Steve Young, and hopefully maybe Joe Montana.
b) Kyle has been building an offense that will be very tough to stop schematically. DCs may fear players on other teams more, but not the 49ers scheme to stop every single thing we can possibly throw at them. Just consider that Harbaugh/Roman had a top OL, a dual threat QB, a great RB, two really good TEs, some solid WRs and still that offense was never as natural as what Shanahan has put out with Jimmy, even MULLENS. Sure the 2012 and maybe even the 2013 49er offenses had flashier plays, but without an elite defense, would have not seen those plays as often (the story of the 2014 season).
Kyle gave Belichick a lot of problems last time they faced off, and you can bet he will again next year in Foxborough when Jimmy returns!
c) I easily prefer our entire RB group over a guy that couldn't hack it in the SB. After seeing Breida ball out last year, teams should be scared of our RB group when elite receiving talents like McKinnon and Coleman are on the same team, and Kyle's coaching gets the most out of RBs in the pass AND run game.
d) The 49ers certainly closed the gap and have overtaken on the DL IMO - too much reverence has been given to Aaron Donald. Perhaps physically that may be the case, and against most teams it's probably true...........but the guy is far from infallible. Besides being ineffective in the Bowl, does anyone here remember him being ejected in a 28-0 opener loss to our Chip Kelly Niners??? You know, the same Rams that the week after held the Seahawks to 3 points at home.....
Donald is great and might still be the best singular DL talent in the league, but Buckner is pretty close, and now with Ford/Bosa on the edges and Solomon Thomas strictly inside, it's gonna be problematic.
Pasodoc49er covered the rest of the points very well. The two teams are much closer this year than you would think, with a massive chunk of last year being injuries to our team and Jimmy's absence.
The Rams have better (more proven/healthy) DBs and a better DC. That much I think you will find no resistance from Niner fans.....the question is, will their deficiencies in other areas cost them more?
Remains to be seen. The Niners had the best DC and best LBs in the NFL for a few years.....was that a slam dunk for our team?
Great post
May 26, 2019 at 8:47 AM
- GarnerValleyFan
- Veteran
- Posts: 511
Goof is a sub standard QB, both Mullens and GQ are superior to Goof. Needless to say, Shanny the teacher is far superior to McVay the student.
Make no mistake, 9ers are head and shoulder above Lambs.
Make no mistake, 9ers are head and shoulder above Lambs.
May 26, 2019 at 9:02 AM
- bud49
- Veteran
- Posts: 1,768
If this Niners team plays up to their full capability then the Rams are maybe 1 to 2 games better but if not then 5 to 6. Its time for this D line to play up to their draft positions and quit dragggin ass.