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Unique new way to build a SB dynasty.

  • Giedi
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Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Interesting that someone (infinite eight) caught the line "Maybe kyle didn't foresee having a QB like JG this soon" . ..i think this still is a realistic possibility and based on the beating CJ took (and it was a royal beating), Kyle seemed to be delighted he could take a licking and keep on ticking. If he would have progressed it seemed he had the main attributes that kyle liked. Stood tall, took the hits and sometimes was still upright long enough to get a pass off. As it turned out he didn't seem to progress in his reads...which to be honest, were painfully slow. Still kyle kept him on ,and maybe it was because he was tough and could take a pounding.

Once Mullie came on tho, CJ was relegated to 3rd string. Mullie got the ball out easily and early, but he got the bejezus beat out of him too. So yes, I think it possible kyle may have really NOT planned on having a FR QB that early....or maybe he felt he could develop any qB who could take the hits, and do quick reads, and perhaps he didn't plan on a FR QB ever? Maybe kyle's Plan was to just keep using QBs who could do the above, and he somehow figured he could get away with no FR QB? I mean that is a bit "out there" but it sure seemed that way at times.

I still believe the FR QB kind of took kyle by surprise and maybe he never intended to protect whoever the QB was who was capable of taking a major beating every game...and truly was not a FR QB. Maybe he got caught in a situation where he couldn't pass on a FR QB who literally got dropped in his lap. Recall the contract was NOT chump change. Maybe kyle was thinking along those lines. If he could get a tough , crusty QB who could stand in, still get the ball out, maybe he could finesse having to ever get a FR QB...and save a bunch of money in the bargain.

Recall also, he had Cousins in WASH and Ryan in ATL....and neither has done anywhere near as well as when kyle was their OC. Is Ryan considered an all pro QB now? I don't think so. And cousins never really was a star once kyle left. So maybe those were the kind of QBs kyle was intending on using...not FR QB, but tough QBs with the quick flick. Whatever, the facts are we got a FR QB, and kyle really is obligated to protect the $137 mil investment. But so far, that hasn't happened. True, kyle got McG last yr, but that was just a replacement for Trent Brown. Richburg was another move to protect the Qb. But not spending draft capital on OGs or $$ on starter OGs...that is going to have to change.

We can hope one of the kids we picked up in UDFA will be a starter OG, and will help protect Jim[left]myG. But we certainly didn't spend any real draft capital on OG altho we did get some quick receivers. Sadly they can't protect the passer however.

I don't know if i buy the fact that Kyle was caught by surprise - in landing Jimmy and Mullens. what I do know is that this team had a big talent deficit and so many holes that it took three draft cycles to get back to even.

I think they were banking on cousins in the 2nd year and then drafting OLine and WR's in the 3rd and fourth years. Once Jimmy came into the picture, they had to scramble to get the pass catchers in place because - remember they signed a lot of free agent pass catchers that aged really quickly (Garcon for example).

They did their best in free agency with Richburg and then drafted McGlinchy, but they didn't have much depth so that once anyone on that OLine got dinged, then the whole thing crumbled.

It takes time to build the passing offense. It takes at least a year or two, minimum for QB and WR to synch and be unconcious in their routes and passing - so I think they had to go with WR's this year because Jimmy is still early in his contract and also the strength of the draft was in WR's.

I don't think the offense is seriously hampered with undrafted OLinemen and veteran castoffs manning the backup positions. Kyle's offense lends itself to having a *different* kind of OLineman that is more intellegent and athletice versus an OLineman that can bench press a Mack Truck, but isn't intelligent enough to mind meld with his other OLine buddies to work as one entity.
I seem to remember his father having one of the best offensive lines I've ever seen. Look, you just don't rewrite the way the game is played overnight. Putting all this pressure in Jimmy G to always be on is A game when he hasn't even proven he can do it for a whole season isn't something they are doing on purpose. They just honestly think what they have is good enough just like their analysis of our suspect defensive backfield. If the o-line stinks this year, we will definitely be putting more resources into it, hopefully we just don't get the qb killed in the meantime.
  • Giedi
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Originally posted by T-9ers:
I seem to remember his father having one of the best offensive lines I've ever seen. Look, you just don't rewrite the way the game is played overnight. Putting all this pressure in Jimmy G to always be on is A game when he hasn't even proven he can do it for a whole season isn't something they are doing on purpose. They just honestly think what they have is good enough just like their analysis of our suspect defensive backfield. If the o-line stinks this year, we will definitely be putting more resources into it, hopefully we just don't get the qb killed in the meantime.

Agree, and also keep in mind, what ended Steve Young's career wasn't a missed block by the OLineman. Jimmy got hurt *outside* of the pocket, not inside it. I don't recall clearly, but I think I remember Jimmy could have just headed out of bounds and instead cut it inside to get more yardage. That wasn't on the OLine, that was Jimmy taking a risk and losing the bet.
  • krizay
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Seeing posts like this crack me up. I've been one of what seeems like a few that defended him in the SB f li r not running the ball. Because he did call plays that had players open but the players didn't execute. Which left Shanny taking the blame. But a lot of posters in here as well.

Been seeing a whole lot of Shanny scheming posts lately. Players still need to execute REGARDLESS of what he draws up.

It sure feels like some are setting very very high expectations for a team that had the #2 pick
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by T-9ers:
I seem to remember his father having one of the best offensive lines I've ever seen. Look, you just don't rewrite the way the game is played overnight. Putting all this pressure in Jimmy G to always be on is A game when he hasn't even proven he can do it for a whole season isn't something they are doing on purpose. They just honestly think what they have is good enough just like their analysis of our suspect defensive backfield. If the o-line stinks this year, we will definitely be putting more resources into it, hopefully we just don't get the qb killed in the meantime.

Agree, and also keep in mind, what ended Steve Young's career wasn't a missed block by the OLineman. Jimmy got hurt *outside* of the pocket, not inside it. I don't recall clearly, but I think I remember Jimmy could have just headed out of bounds and instead cut it inside to get more yardage. That wasn't on the OLine, that was Jimmy taking a risk and losing the bet.
I'm sure you know this. Maybe not everybody does.

Walsh made his career F-up by bringing in the dirtbag Lawrence Phillips (serial woman beater, later convicted of selling hard drugs and killed himself in prison) for a look-see. Phillips whiffed on a blindside blitz pickup and that was the end of Young's career.
Originally posted by KamLeon:
How do you catch a unique rabbit?

??????
  • Giedi
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Originally posted by krizay:
Seeing posts like this crack me up. I've been one of what seeems like a few that defended him in the SB f li r not running the ball. Because he did call plays that had players open but the players didn't execute. Which left Shanny taking the blame. But a lot of posters in here as well.

Been seeing a whole lot of Shanny scheming posts lately. Players still need to execute REGARDLESS of what he draws up.

It sure feels like some are setting very very high expectations for a team that had the #2 pick

That's Kirazy!

I dont think the word expectation is the right word. I think it's more of a hope. 10 wins in the last two years should tamper down any expectations to another disappointing year. Having said that, picking Bosa gives a lot of the WBzoners lots of hope for this season.
We have one of the better qbs to execute this concept also. He reads defenses well and has a quick release. This also makes me question the Beathard pick even more.
Originally posted by jcs:
Originally posted by Giedi:
Doc, regarding the OLine, I think quickness and speed over strength. Again how much *power* do you need as an OLineman to block for a screen pass or draw play? You need quick quickness and agility. Same thing with the zone run. You need timing and coordination more than power and strength.

So you are looking for OLinemen that are different from all the power and gap blocking teams out there. You still need good athletes, dont get me wrong, but it's the timing, coordination and all five olinemen thinking the same thing every single snap. I.e. the intangibles more than the tangibles that matter with shanahan.

I think you can find good athletic quick but maybe under-powered OLinemen in the later rounds, or maybe undrafted. The key is finding linemen with the ability to subdue thier individuality and meld their mind with the rest of the oLine guys and act as one mind vs a power man on man blocker where its mano a mano. Keep in mind even the backups have to mind meld too!
The Key is having a great Oline coach that can mold talent...we haven't had one of those since McKittrick

This is perhaps the most underrated aspect of the Patriots' success the last few years. Damn Dante Scarnecchia is like the Bill Walsh of OL coaches.......I've rarely seen an OL coach held in such high regard. Brady getting killed in Denver in the 2015 Championship Game prompted Belichick coaxing him out of retirement.
The focus of the Patriots winning the Super Bowl against the Rams was isolating Aaron Donald and making him a non factor. Without that it's likely the Rams win the game.

For all of his all world talent, he has weaknesses in his game that could be exploited. I hope the film from the SB can be used by our offensive and defensive coaches to take down the Rams.

Another thing I'd like to see is maybe some 22 personnel.....2 RBs, 2 TEs........it's what sprung the Patriots for their only TD drive in that game, and was put together on the sideline right before the drive. It's exciting that the 49ers can run the most diverse personnel groupings in the NFL, hands down, not even close. It's annoying that the Patriots get all the credit for running 21 personnel like they're the only team using it....but this year people will see they're not alone and there's a better team at it.

  • krizay
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Originally posted by Giedi:
That's Kirazy!

I dont think the word expectation is the right word. I think it's more of a hope. 10 wins in the last two years should tamper down any expectations to another disappointing year. Having said that, picking Bosa gives a lot of the WBzoners lots of hope for this season.

And then there's that
  • Giedi
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Originally posted by RTFirefly:
I'm sure you know this. Maybe not everybody does.

Walsh made his career F-up by bringing in the dirtbag Lawrence Phillips (serial woman beater, later convicted of selling hard drugs and killed himself in prison) for a look-see. Phillips whiffed on a blindside blitz pickup and that was the end of Young's career.

That was one of the worst weeks in my life. The other was witnessing Eddie giving up control of the 49ers to his sister.
  • Giedi
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  • Posts: 12,915
Originally posted by gold49digger:
We have one of the better qbs to execute this concept also. He reads defenses well and has a quick release. This also makes me question the Beathard pick even more.

BeatHard may still develop, but my gut says he's another colin Kaepernick that has a problem speed reading defenses.

Wilton Speight is an intriguing undrafted signee. He could be a bigger and stronger armed Mullens. I'm pulling for him to make the practice squad this year.
  • Giedi
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  • Posts: 12,915
Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:
Originally posted by jcs:
Originally posted by Giedi:
Doc, regarding the OLine, I think quickness and speed over strength. Again how much *power* do you need as an OLineman to block for a screen pass or draw play? You need quick quickness and agility. Same thing with the zone run. You need timing and coordination more than power and strength.

So you are looking for OLinemen that are different from all the power and gap blocking teams out there. You still need good athletes, dont get me wrong, but it's the timing, coordination and all five olinemen thinking the same thing every single snap. I.e. the intangibles more than the tangibles that matter with shanahan.

I think you can find good athletic quick but maybe under-powered OLinemen in the later rounds, or maybe undrafted. The key is finding linemen with the ability to subdue thier individuality and meld their mind with the rest of the oLine guys and act as one mind vs a power man on man blocker where its mano a mano. Keep in mind even the backups have to mind meld too!
The Key is having a great Oline coach that can mold talent...we haven't had one of those since McKittrick

This is perhaps the most underrated aspect of the Patriots' success the last few years. Damn Dante Scarnecchia is like the Bill Walsh of OL coaches.......I've rarely seen an OL coach held in such high regard. Brady getting killed in Denver in the 2015 Championship Game prompted Belichick coaxing him out of retirement.

Agree with both points. Maybe Kyle can get Alex Gibbs to unretire and come work for Kyle.

But in all seriousness I am hoping Kyle is a good enough OC to coach up that OLine along with John Benton.
step 1: draft a punter in the 4th round when you have much bigger needs.
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