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Unique new way to build a SB dynasty.

It is indeed unique the way we are trying to build this team. I don't think it will work either. We will see.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
It is indeed unique the way we are trying to build this team. I don't think it will work either. We will see.

I hope it works. It seems like he's building a similar offense to NE. All quick scrappy guys and having a QB who quickly finds the open guy on short routes then let him get yac.
  • jcs
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Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
It is indeed unique the way we are trying to build this team. I don't think it will work either. We will see.

I hope it works. It seems like he's building a similar offense to NE. All quick scrappy guys and having a QB who quickly finds the open guy on short routes then let him get yac.
NE runs a different offense. It's been one that adapts season to season, game to game. I get the feeling Kyle is too stubborn to mold his system away from what he wants it to be.
Originally posted by jcs:
Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
It is indeed unique the way we are trying to build this team. I don't think it will work either. We will see.

I hope it works. It seems like he's building a similar offense to NE. All quick scrappy guys and having a QB who quickly finds the open guy on short routes then let him get yac.
NE runs a different offense. It's been one that adapts season to season, game to game. I get the feeling Kyle is too stubborn to mold his system away from what he wants it to be.

I know, I believe he's going this way tho. I think he believes JG can handle it. NE runs a lot now.
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Baalke would appreciate this post.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
It is indeed unique the way we are trying to build this team. I don't think it will work either. We will see.

Reminds me a lot of how Mike Shanahan built teams: draft seems to heavily favor coaches' opinions (vs. scouts), prioritize perceived perfect scheme fits for offense, and spend money to get (any) talent and bodies on defense.

Not sure it will work, but the coaches now do have the opportunity to justify their picks.
Originally posted by TheFunkyChicken:
This sounds a lot like how Steve Spurier got points on the board, and all his QBs murdered.

Exactly. You can't tell me that anyone feels good about this OL with 125 QB hits over TWO seasons regardless of who the signal caller is. I know having WRs who can get separation helps, but still the interior OL is more suspect than a gold "electroplated" chain. I can't recall any dynasty - any that was built without having good to great talent in the trenches on both side of the ball. At some point you won't be able to out-scheme an opponent who is just as smart AND has equal or better talent; deficiencies will get exposed. And because this is a copy-cat league, everyone will attack what we're trying to hide. Don't believe me? Watch how defenses play the Rams this year after Hoodie exposed them - and someone please help me; did Hoodie use the same approach Fangio used in Chicago?

Defense are getting faster and faster. DL are getting better and better much faster than OLs are IMHO. Look at what teams are doing who didn't previously protect their FQB (Colts, Green Bay) and compare that to what they are doing today. Relying too much on your FQB without proper protection and talent can cost you your job.

I'm not fan of this draft because we grabbed ONE guard and ONE CB - both areas where the need is so glaring we hope the FO has some more moves between now and TC to help bolster both areas.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Exactly. You can't tell me that anyone feels good about this OL with 125 QB hits over TWO seasons regardless of who the signal caller is. I know having WRs who can get separation helps, but still the interior OL is more suspect than a gold "electroplated" chain. I can't recall any dynasty - any that was built without having good to great talent in the trenches on both side of the ball. At some point you won't be able to out-scheme an opponent who is just as smart AND has equal or better talent; deficiencies will get exposed. And because this is a copy-cat league, everyone will attack what we're trying to hide. Don't believe me? Watch how defenses play the Rams this year after Hoodie exposed them - and someone please help me; did Hoodie use the same approach Fangio used in Chicago?

Defense are getting faster and faster. DL are getting better and better much faster than OLs are IMHO. Look at what teams are doing who didn't previously protect their FQB (Colts, Green Bay) and compare that to what they are doing today. Relying too much on your FQB without proper protection and talent can cost you your job.

I'm not fan of this draft because we grabbed ONE guard and ONE CB - both areas where the need is so glaring we hope the FO has some more moves between now and TC to help bolster both areas.

There weren't many top tier O lineman in this draft and the few there were went in the first round or early second. If we would have picked one of them over Bosa or a receiver everyone would be complaining. I'm not sure any of the top linemen fit the type that Kyle likes. Anyway I've never seen a draft where everyone was happy and liked each pick. To really fill all our needs we would have had to have 2 firsts, 2 seconds and 2 thirds. Even then someone might have beat us to the player we targeted.
^^i was early on against drafting any OG after rd 3...and almost after rd 2. Why? Because then we are just drafting backup OGs, and we already got two of those starting. You want a reason for 125 QB hits? Well having backup OGs is a good place to look. Also the accolades that last yrs surprise RT garnereed were not based on his pass pro. It was awful. JOe has continued to do an admirable job, but sure he got beat sometimes. It is the guys who are dependably crappy blockers that is the problem . Zone blocking has to do with offense. Protecting your QB has to do with keeping your team in the competition.

Here is a thot, not anything i could prove , but something i wondered about maybe half way thru last yr. JImmyG gone long before, and the QB hits just kept mounting. Did it not bother HC kyle that his QBs were getting beaten up? In 2017 last 5 games with JG, he got creamed , right and left. So what is going on about that . Kyle is a perceptive guy, especially so. So how could he miss all the qB beat down, or beat ups that were happening?

Again this is just something I wondered about , due to the ongoing mauling going on behind the LOS. Is it possible that kyle never intended to have a FR QB , and was going to use QBs as we use Kleenex. Use it and then throw it away? Was he intending to use mediocre QBs all the time and just get rid of one when he got too beaten up to play? You know, replaceable parts?

And then half way thru Kyle's first season, JG fell out of the sky, courtesy BB. Now kyle had his FRQB, but is it possible his plan NEVER included having one? That was the only thing that seemed likely based on his disregard for his QBs health. Once beaten up just throw away and next man up.?

I never thot that was the reasoning, but shoot, can somebody else give me a better reason for disregarding his QBs health? I get that ZBS sets up the run which then sets up the pass. Nowhere in there is there any concern given to ZBS OLs that can't protect the passer., Kyle's emphasis is making the ZBS work and then his O is off and running...and passing. But nowhere, ever has there been any concern for his QBs health .

I find that alarming but there is no doubt, the ZBS is all important to kyle and his O schemes. Can someone come up with another explanation of why he is so cavalier about his QBs getting beaten to a pulp? Using disposable QBs seems so unlikely from the worlds best play caller and schemer. It also seems crass. Hence i don't believe it. But somebody come up with another idea...please.
I'm sure they'll grab OL depth when teams start cutting veterans. We have a millions guys who can flex out to different positions and a coach crazy enough to scheme and use stuff like that. Our offense is gonna be really fun to watch for the first time in years. I'm not crazy about some of the later picks but that corner may be good. Hes got great size and speed

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
There weren't many top tier O lineman in this draft and the few there were went in the first round or early second. If we would have picked one of them over Bosa or a receiver everyone would be complaining. I'm not sure any of the top linemen fit the type that Kyle likes. Anyway I've never seen a draft where everyone was happy and liked each pick. To really fill all our needs we would have had to have 2 firsts, 2 seconds and 2 thirds. Even then someone might have beat us to the player we targeted.

Again this is why I was flabbergasted that we didn't try to trade for or make any moves during FA. I know there weren't a ton of OL in the draft and those on the open market but it always strikes me that some teams are aggressive enough to make their own market/opportunities. If NY was willing to trade OBJ, Houston was rumored to trade Clooney, Seattle traded Clark, all elite players who either moved or on the move because someone decided to pay enough.

The question becomes, how valuable is the OL to this coaching staff and if they believe we have enough, that's fine BUT it has to be proven. We have yet to see this proven on the field.

I trust Kyle. I think he is an offensive genius. I know he's forgotten more football than I'll ever know, yet the results are what they are; 125 QB hits. 2 consecutive seasons. Don't get me wrong, I am f**king stocked to see what he does with the weapons at his disposal. I just just don't want him to risk Jimmys health. Yes QBs get hit, it's football. However there is a pretty direct correlation between fewer QB hits and QB performance/efficiency and offensive performance/efficiency.

Pasodoc, regardless of the signal caller your dynasty needs 5 good reliable guys who can be consistent enough so the QB and his rbs and receivers can establish a rapport. I hoping we are getting close to that.

We need Richburg to be the guy we saw play in NY when he was considered one of the top centers in the league. We need Tomlinson to play like a first round prospect. We need Person to play out of his mind. We need Coleman to be much better than he was in a Cleveland. We need Mike to keep growing and Joe to stay healthy. Going to say a prayer to the football gods for my guys.
I am hoping for some cap cut OL starters...ok, even one would be appreciated. It is a bit hard to swallow tho, that we go thru the entire draft process with days and months to prepare, and when we had two chances at a starting OG, Kyle, (and i don't believe this was JL), goes for not one but two WRs. Hey, all well and good for our O. It should be unstoppable, esp with kyle scheming plays.

The obvious missing piece here, tho, is nobody is protecting our QB....and not just a starting QB, but a true FR QB. And we get a later rd OL who is just as good , hopefully , as our two OGs, both starting, but not starters. 125 QB hits the last two yrs proves that. And McG has turned into an excellent Zone blocker but has sure been responsible for a fair # of those QB hits. Richburg the same., and both OGs .,..who knows how many hits each one gave up?

How kyle could ignore that fact and then draft an OG long after the starting OGs were gone, is just puzzling. Now we got at least another backup OL...but we have to protect our QBs or all the high powered WRs, TEs and RBs won't have anyone to throw to them. it isn't just JG. Mullie got beat up a bunch last yr. There's a disconnect here, and i believe we all would like to know why. Why NOT protect your FR Qb? Simple question, but no answer.

Hoping , or praying for our OGs and C and RT to sudddenly step up and protect the QB, as GM notes above, is not what most of us think a really great HC would do. Hoping 4/5 of our OL suddenly will become better pass protectors...that just doesn't square with protecting one's QB.

So again, i ask the question...why is it that kyle seemingly is so uninterested in protecting his QBs? He has to know that QBs that get beaten up like ours have since he has been here, is not conducive to keeping your QBs healthy and on the field. So again, why is kyle seemingly so undisturbed by our /his QBs getting beaten to a pulp. And why didn't he at least get one starting OG with our 2nd or 3rd rd pick.? Kyle knows that anything after rd 2 was just more backup OLs. Why? Why?
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by tohara3:
Great post guys! I think Shanahan put to many eggs into his McKinnon basket on offense last year then when he went down he had to scramble everything he had worked on all offseason. Now he will have so many different weapons to use he only needs his franchise quarterback to stay on the field this year. Great job by Shanahan, Lynch & Peters in building this squad Brick-by-Brick.

You could literally say that about every team in the NFL

Agreed
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Again this is why I was flabbergasted that we didn't try to trade for or make any moves during FA. I know there weren't a ton of OL in the draft and those on the open market but it always strikes me that some teams are aggressive enough to make their own market/opportunities. If NY was willing to trade OBJ, Houston was rumored to trade Clooney, Seattle traded Clark, all elite players who either moved or on the move because someone decided to pay enough.

The question becomes, how valuable is the OL to this coaching staff and if they believe we have enough, that's fine BUT it has to be proven. We have yet to see this proven on the field.

I trust Kyle. I think he is an offensive genius. I know he's forgotten more football than I'll ever know, yet the results are what they are; 125 QB hits. 2 consecutive seasons. Don't get me wrong, I am f**king stocked to see what he does with the weapons at his disposal. I just just don't want him to risk Jimmys health. Yes QBs get hit, it's football. However there is a pretty direct correlation between fewer QB hits and QB performance/efficiency and offensive performance/efficiency.

Pasodoc, regardless of the signal caller your dynasty needs 5 good reliable guys who can be consistent enough so the QB and his rbs and receivers can establish a rapport. I hoping we are getting close to that.

We need Richburg to be the guy we saw play in NY when he was considered one of the top centers in the league. We need Tomlinson to play like a first round prospect. We need Person to play out of his mind. We need Coleman to be much better than he was in a Cleveland. We need Mike to keep growing and Joe to stay healthy. Going to say a prayer to the football gods for my guys.

It's basic supply and demand. Colleges aren't developing many NFL ready OL anymore. If Marcus Martin and Chilo Rachael can get jobs in the NFL after we cut them, you know there is definitely a talent deficit. Besides the outlier draft of Stanley, Tunsil, and Conklin, when was the last time "can't miss" or at least projected stud OLinemen where available in the draft. In today's NFL you almost have to draft and develop. The problem is they may take 3 years to develop and then you get a one year starter from their rookie deal and then they get a huge deal in free agency like Norwell and Pugh.

The 49ers drafted the 1st OL taken in the draft last year, and signed the best C available, how can you question whether or not they value that group. The real question, do you give up on the Garnetts and the Tomlinsons of the world early and watch them start on other teams (like Brown, Iupati, person, Looney, and Kilgore) while you draft more guys that could develop later on? Or do you give them a chance to develop into what they were projected to be on draft day?
[ Edited by flynhayn15 on Apr 28, 2019 at 10:06 AM ]
Well, we arent' to cap cuts yet, but we now have 7 OLs on our 100 man roster. (Or is it 6?) Whatever, i feel better about the OL, as it is apparent that both JL and KS understand our concerns. My "Unique and novel way to build a SB dynasty" was somewhat tongue in cheek. Certainly gets plaudits for novel, however. If Hurd or Deebo can get open in less than 2 seconds., we're golden. Because JG can get the ball out quick . Our WR has to be quicker tho. With the added beef on the roster, maybe we get lucky and find an OG starter . At a position where you have a direct path to Qb, it would be nice iif we at least slowed them down this yr.

All the guys suddenly appearing means to me GM and HC both know OL is a weakness and are looking for some help there. The more the merrier as far as i am concerned.Wiil it be enough/ just put it out there ? Stay tuned.
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