Dee Ford, DE

Answer is IDK. Without seeing the X-rays, and especially the actual color pics from the "scope, which tells you everything you want to know:

Degree of pathology, ie , amount of scarring, where scarring is, amount of osteoarthritic bone spurs, and where they are...were all able to be found? (some can be very small), and on and and on, ad infinitum. Lots of different parameters but as they say about bidding in bridge card game, "a peek is worth a thousand finesses" ...in medicine we say, "a peek is worth a thousand words.". And with the magic of 'scopes now (and as far back as almost 30+ yrs now) , you can do a procedure like this and the guy can be playing in the next 6-9 months...if not sooner, all depending upon what was found and what was done. As for whatever damage there is/was, potentially there can be damage to undersurface of patella, as well as soft tissue which tendon moves thru. Not really understanding the meaning of tendinosis, sorry can't answer the question re: collagen changes. But where you have scarring, bone spurs, osteophytes, sure there can be damage to collagen(which is just connective tissue). But what transpired here, a peek at the photos during 'scope would answer everything.

But to see that Dee would have to give permission and ask that those pics be shown...and that is gross invasion of personal privacy, so don't expect it. I suspect JL has had a look or more likely has read the complete op report, probably chatted with the doc who did the procedure...or will. But I bet that conversation has already taken place. He and Kyle would certainly have needed to know prior to FA, Draft, trades, UDFAs, and so on. The fact that an ER wasn't a big pick makes me think F.O liked what they saw.

^ thanks

Originally posted by NYniner85:

if true this is amazing

Likely knee scope with open patella tendon debridement. This should put the knee tendonitis issues behind him. https://t.co/0eJA1gNFin

— David J. Chao - ProFootballDoc (@ProFootballDoc) May 29, 2020

Great! I just read a Grant Cohn article on SI that says (his opinion) the Niners will probably get rid of Ford after 2020, even with the surgery which according to the above fixes the problem long-term. Where the hell does he come up with such stupid s**t. Absolute moron.

A more healthy dee ford means more strip sacks and sacks for the best dline in the league.

Originally posted by Team49ers:

A more healthy dee ford means more strip sacks and sacks for the best dline in the league.

Yep. I could see Bosa winning Defensive player of the year too If Dee plays most of the season.

Um, wow. Where did this come from??? Why so secretive? I mean, I can see waiting til after the draft, but its been 5 weeks. Wow. What to make of this. Hope he just feels better and can take some snaps most games. We STILL don't run him into the ground, and we wait to get him into the flow starting like October. Hope this is all true and things work out for 600 snaps, and available for the playoffs. This is a stunner.

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
if true this is amazing

Likely knee scope with open patella tendon debridement. This should put the knee tendonitis issues behind him. https://t.co/0eJA1gNFin

— David J. Chao - ProFootballDoc (@ProFootballDoc) May 29, 2020

Dr. Chao is legit. I feel very comfortable now

Yup big news

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
^^^it is. The scope cleanout as described above ,gets all the crap....scar, osteoarthritic bone spurs, more scar off of the involved areas. And it will include not just the tendon, but the area where the tendon moves in also. Sadly the condition is a chronic one, but clean outs like this are extremely helpful and gives one a much better and more comfortable movement of the tendon. But the condition is chronic and will recur over time, but can be cleaned out again. I've had a couple of these and they were very successful. Length of time depends on what the area is subjected to...in this case everything that goes along with NFL football.

IOW, this area is going to be subjected to trauma all over again, with more of the same recurring. So it's a W. It would be nice if this gets Dee thru the season. Having him in on passing downs? We win the last SB.

Any idea how it could go from tendonosis where the collagen is deteriorating, to back to tendonitis, albeit extreme?

I'll leave the medical part to Doc, but I had experience with this general issue in the achilles leading up to my last race a number of years ago (a USATF national indoor championship 400m)

I have "chronic tendinitis" and some would probably call it a severe case. During training, the inflamation from tendon scar tissue moving in the tendon sheath became a huge problem as my body would protect the achilles and not want to engage it in a full range of motion. This caused subtle imbalances which lead to other issues. I stopped training and resigned myself to needing surgery and missing the competition. By pure chance (and stupidity) it was discovered that the irritation was triggered in a part of the running motion associated with slow, lazy jogging. As long as I avoided that, the achilles wasn't really a problem. I did surprisingly well in the competition considering the ruined training program, but had to scrap the rest of the year because of the issues caused by the imbalance during training.

Not sure if any of my experience translates to Ford's, but I can say that while my issue is chronic, there is functionally a night and day difference between when my achilles is happy, and when I get lazy and it gets inflamed and angry.

Edit: The initial irritation was caused by slow, lazy jogging, but once triggered, the inflamation started and everything went downhill.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Um, wow. Where did this come from??? Why so secretive? I mean, I can see waiting til after the draft, but its been 5 weeks. Wow. What to make of this. Hope he just feels better and can take some snaps most games. We STILL don't run him into the ground, and we wait to get him into the flow starting like October. Hope this is all true and things work out for 600 snaps, and available for the playoffs. This is a stunner.

You're really surprised? This didn't come out of nowhere. Definitely not a stunner. I'm actually not sure if you're being sarcastic?

Originally posted by Midbay:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

^^^it is. The scope cleanout as described above ,gets all the crap....scar, osteoarthritic bone spurs, more scar off of the involved areas. And it will include not just the tendon, but the area where the tendon moves in also. Sadly the condition is a chronic one, but clean outs like this are extremely helpful and gives one a much better and more comfortable movement of the tendon. But the condition is chronic and will recur over time, but can be cleaned out again. I've had a couple of these and they were very successful. Length of time depends on what the area is subjected to...in this case everything that goes along with NFL football.

IOW, this area is going to be subjected to trauma all over again, with more of the same recurring. So it's a W. It would be nice if this gets Dee thru the season. Having him in on passing downs? We win the last SB.

Any idea how it could go from tendonosis where the collagen is deteriorating, to back to tendonitis, albeit extreme?

I'll leave the medical part to Doc, but I had experience with this general issue in the achilles leading up to my last race a number of years ago (a USATF national indoor championship 400m)

I have "chronic tendinitis" and some would probably call it a severe case. During training, the inflamation from tendon scar tissue moving in the tendon sheath became a huge problem as my body would protect the achilles and not want to engage it in a full range of motion. This caused subtle imbalances which lead to other issues. I stopped training and resigned myself to needing surgery and missing the competition. By pure chance (and stupidity) it was discovered that the irritation was triggered in a part of the running motion associated with slow, lazy jogging. As long as I avoided that, the achilles wasn't really a problem. I did surprisingly well in the competition considering the ruined training program, but had to scrap the rest of the year because of the issues caused by the imbalance during training.

Not sure if any of my experience translates to Ford's, but I can say that while my issue is chronic, there is functionally a night and day difference between when my achilles is happy, and when I get lazy and it gets inflamed and angry.

Edit: The initial irritation was caused by slow, lazy jogging, but once triggered, the inflamation started and everything went downhill.

Thanks

Originally posted by ninerjok:
Great! I just read a Grant Cohn article on SI that says (his opinion) the Niners will probably get rid of Ford after 2020, even with the surgery which according to the above fixes the problem long-term. Where the hell does he come up with such stupid s**t. Absolute moron.

Fred Dean had a severe knee injury in 1982, and played another three years after that. Dee Ford is 28 - conceivably if he follows Fred Dean's trajectory - he can play another - - five years? Sports science is much more advanced now vs 1982, and NFL sport science is usually at the cutting edge of the cutting edge. I.e. - It's at the level of Special Forces type of medical cutting edge knowledge.

Originally posted by Midbay:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
^^^it is. The scope cleanout as described above ,gets all the crap....scar, osteoarthritic bone spurs, more scar off of the involved areas. And it will include not just the tendon, but the area where the tendon moves in also. Sadly the condition is a chronic one, but clean outs like this are extremely helpful and gives one a much better and more comfortable movement of the tendon. But the condition is chronic and will recur over time, but can be cleaned out again. I've had a couple of these and they were very successful. Length of time depends on what the area is subjected to...in this case everything that goes along with NFL football.

IOW, this area is going to be subjected to trauma all over again, with more of the same recurring. So it's a W. It would be nice if this gets Dee thru the season. Having him in on passing downs? We win the last SB.

Any idea how it could go from tendonosis where the collagen is deteriorating, to back to tendonitis, albeit extreme?

I'll leave the medical part to Doc, but I had experience with this general issue in the achilles leading up to my last race a number of years ago (a USATF national indoor championship 400m)

I have "chronic tendinitis" and some would probably call it a severe case. During training, the inflamation from tendon scar tissue moving in the tendon sheath became a huge problem as my body would protect the achilles and not want to engage it in a full range of motion. This caused subtle imbalances which lead to other issues. I stopped training and resigned myself to needing surgery and missing the competition. By pure chance (and stupidity) it was discovered that the irritation was triggered in a part of the running motion associated with slow, lazy jogging. As long as I avoided that, the achilles wasn't really a problem. I did surprisingly well in the competition considering the ruined training program, but had to scrap the rest of the year because of the issues caused by the imbalance during training.

Not sure if any of my experience translates to Ford's, but I can say that while my issue is chronic, there is functionally a night and day difference between when my achilles is happy, and when I get lazy and it gets inflamed and angry.

Edit: The initial irritation was caused by slow, lazy jogging, but once triggered, the inflamation started and everything went downhill.

Great stuff Doc, and Midbay. As a fan, I'm a bit more hopefull of Dee Fords condition now. This morning I was ready to trade him for a cheezeburger. Man o man, do our members have some serious knowledge - as compared to most of the beat writers out there (example Mr. Cone).

Originally posted by Giedi:

Great stuff Doc, and Midbay. As a fan, I'm a bit more hopefull of Dee Fords condition now. This morning I was ready to trade him for a cheezeburger. Man o man, do our members have some serious knowledge - as compared to most of the beat writers out there (example Mr. Cone).

Dr. chao saying it's should put his knee tendonitis in the past is what I needed to hear this is amazing news if it ends up true.

Giving Ford a solid 600+ snaps next yr could take this defenses to a different level.

I had arthroscopic debridement surgery on my right knee the week before the superbowl. I could put weight on it within a few days and was off crutches within a week. Dee should definitely be ready for next season, but I also agree with those saying it's really more of a temporary fix.

Originally posted by Overkill:
I had arthroscopic debridement surgery on my right knee the week before the superbowl. I could put weight on it within a few days and was off crutches within a week. Dee should definitely be ready for next season, but I also agree with those saying it's really more of a temporary fix.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Dr. chao saying it's should put his knee tendonitis in the past is what I needed to hear this is amazing news if it ends up true.

Giving Ford a solid 600+ snaps next yr could take this defenses to a different level.

One idea I have is if any of his understudies show some production and talent. (Kongbo,Hyder, Barrett) that would help spot Dee Ford from being used too much during the regular season, and save his reps for the playoffs. I think the odds are - even without Dee Ford - this team still has a decent shot at getting into the playoffs. It's getting to the super bowl - and winning - is where we need Dee Ford at his best.