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Week 10: Lessons Learned This Game & This Season

We learned that we are more than one draft and a few free agents from being a good team. Even if we hit on all 5 picks and sign 2 or 3 free agents they still need to come in and learn the system. Not to mention the guys that are here now need to step up and start playing like they are expected. Coaching staff needs to improve as well since they are still learning just like the players.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
I'd be all for a trade down. Nothing more dangerous than a good team with loads of draft picks for the future.

I definitely believe the top five needs are DE, WR, CB, OLB, and I think TE2. At safety, Ward actually has played fairly well. If the team isn't able to upgrade, he might be serviceable short term there next year if they want to keep him.
I thought that was a good assessment to start off this thread. Can't say I disagree with any of it. The thing that struck me last night was Shanahan's earlier reference to needing "closers" on the team. I think they already have at least one but, unfortunately, he is out of action this year and that's Jimmy G. From the moment he stepped on the field against Seattle he was competing. Against Jacksonville when the Jags were fighting to come back in the 2nd half he kept putting points up on the board, keeping the pressure on. Even this year, against Detroit when he took six sacks, he found a way to win it in the end, even if it did take a huge call by the officials to seal the deal.

The thing that has been clear to me in watching Beathard and Mullens is that, whatever their merits, they are simply place holders for Garoppolo. This season was lost the moment he went down. In some ways I think it has been beneficial for the team. Though it certainly sucks in the short term if he hadn't gotten hurt and was winning enough of these games to make the team look respectable then it might have blinded them a bit to how far they still had to go to improve the overall talent on the roster. That's why I am rooting for them to give every player on the team as long a look as possible this year so that they can really find out who the keepers are. They have some time now to get healthy and regroup and, hopefully, will come out of the bye with enough focus and momentum to carry them through the rest of the year with some kind of respectability. I will never advocate for the concept of tanking a season, I always want to see the team compete, if they can keep doing that but still find themselves coming up a bit short each week I could live with that.

As to your comment above, I also agree with most of that, the only thing I might look at differently is that I kind of like Dwelley and would be curious to see if he could develop. The other thing, although I am sure that the FO doesn't consider things like this at all, is that if this Forum is any indication, it clearly has a perception problem when it comes to guys like Ward and Armstead and strictly from a PR standpoint it might be difficult to justify keeping them next year unless they absolutely light it up for the last six games
Good post, OTC.

Leaving it to the draft will not make this a playoff team soon. Too many holes. The FO should target as many starters from both FA and the draft.
Originally posted by 49ers81:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
I'd be all for a trade down. Nothing more dangerous than a good team with loads of draft picks for the future.

I definitely believe the top five needs are DE, WR, CB, OLB, and I think TE2. At safety, Ward actually has played fairly well. If the team isn't able to upgrade, he might be serviceable short term there next year if they want to keep him.
I thought that was a good assessment to start off this thread. Can't say I disagree with any of it. The thing that struck me last night was Shanahan's earlier reference to needing "closers" on the team. I think they already have at least one but, unfortunately, he is out of action this year and that's Jimmy G. From the moment he stepped on the field against Seattle he was competing. Against Jacksonville when the Jags were fighting to come back in the 2nd half he kept putting points up on the board, keeping the pressure on. Even this year, against Detroit when he took six sacks, he found a way to win it in the end, even if it did take a huge call by the officials to seal the deal.

The thing that has been clear to me in watching Beathard and Mullens is that, whatever their merits, they are simply place holders for Garoppolo. This season was lost the moment he went down. In some ways I think it has been beneficial for the team. Though it certainly sucks in the short term if he hadn't gotten hurt and was winning enough of these games to make the team look respectable then it might have blinded them a bit to how far they still had to go to improve the overall talent on the roster. That's why I am rooting for them to give every player on the team as long a look as possible this year so that they can really find out who the keepers are. They have some time now to get healthy and regroup and, hopefully, will come out of the bye with enough focus and momentum to carry them through the rest of the year with some kind of respectability. I will never advocate for the concept of tanking a season, I always want to see the team compete, if they can keep doing that but still find themselves coming up a bit short each week I could live with that.

As to your comment above, I also agree with most of that, the only thing I might look at differently is that I kind of like Dwelley and would be curious to see if he could develop. The other thing, although I am sure that the FO doesn't consider things like this at all, is that if this Forum is any indication, it clearly has a perception problem when it comes to guys like Ward and Armstead and strictly from a PR standpoint it might be difficult to justify keeping them next year unless they absolutely light it up for the last six games

Good points, with Jimmy, there's a good chance we still don't make the playoffs this year and finish with a top 20 instead of top 5 pick in each round. We should be in much better position to accumulate the talent we need, but to Paul's point above, we definitely need to hit on more than one free agent acquisition this coming offseason.
  • okdkid
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Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Good points, with Jimmy, there's a good chance we still don't make the playoffs this year and finish with a top 20 instead of top 5 pick in each round. We should be in much better position to accumulate the talent we need, but to Paul's point above, we definitely need to hit on more than one free agent acquisition this coming offseason.

Yup.
  • dj43
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Originally posted by OnTheClock:
I'd be all for a trade down. Nothing more dangerous than a good team with loads of draft picks for the future.

I definitely believe the top five needs are DE, WR, CB, OLB, and I think TE2. At safety, Ward actually has played fairly well. If the team isn't able to upgrade, he might be serviceable short term there next year if they want to keep him.
There is something to be learned from Kansas City about those two positions.

The Chiefs secondary is not going to scare anybody, however, the fact that Dee Ford is finally living up to his draft promise as a pass rusher has made some very ordinary guys (excluding Kendall Fuller, Eric Berry hasn't played much) look acceptable. No great revelation there. We all know the value of ED. As good as Greedy Williams may be, he is only one guy. The ED is a must if the defense is to close out games like last night.

The other thing we can learn from the Chiefs was the way Brett Veach used some of the cap room they gained from the Smith trade to bring in Sammy Watkins. The threat of a second speedy wideout has made Tyreek Hill even more effective in the passing game. At present, we have Goodwin who can play the Watkins role but we don't have anything even remotely resembling a try #1 WR. In fact, other than speed, Goodwin is nothing like Watkins in that he lacks Watkins' size and strength. Consequently, we need TWO WRs if we are to give the QBs the targets they need to get the ball out without having to wet their pants waiting for someone to get separation.

There are quite a few good WR FAs coming up this next off-season. Donte Moncrief is having a nice year in Jax despite the QB issue. Tyrell Williams, LAC, will also be there. There are others. Given other needs that might be best solved in the draft, a #2 wideout looks best met in FA.

Those are the areas that need to be addressed at the top of the draft and FA. If we can get those resolved early, the other needs can be met down the draft.
Good post and i agree with the OPs and Steveyoungs post. The good news that this team has come a long way, talent wise, since 2016.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
I'd be all for a trade down. Nothing more dangerous than a good team with loads of draft picks for the future.

I definitely believe the top five needs are DE, WR, CB, OLB, and I think TE2. At safety, Ward actually has played fairly well. If the team isn't able to upgrade, he might be serviceable short term there next year if they want to keep him.
There is something to be learned from Kansas City about those two positions.

The Chiefs secondary is not going to scare anybody, however, the fact that Dee Ford is finally living up to his draft promise as a pass rusher has made some very ordinary guys (excluding Kendall Fuller, Eric Berry hasn't played much) look acceptable. No great revelation there. We all know the value of ED. As good as Greedy Williams may be, he is only one guy. The ED is a must if the defense is to close out games like last night.

The other thing we can learn from the Chiefs was the way Brett Veach used some of the cap room they gained from the Smith trade to bring in Sammy Watkins. The threat of a second speedy wideout has made Tyreek Hill even more effective in the passing game. At present, we have Goodwin who can play the Watkins role but we don't have anything even remotely resembling a try #1 WR. In fact, other than speed, Goodwin is nothing like Watkins in that he lacks Watkins' size and strength. Consequently, we need TWO WRs if we are to give the QBs the targets they need to get the ball out without having to wet their pants waiting for someone to get separation.

There are quite a few good WR FAs coming up this next off-season. Donte Moncrief is having a nice year in Jax despite the QB issue. Tyrell Williams, LAC, will also be there. There are others. Given other needs that might be best solved in the draft, a #2 wideout looks best met in FA.

Those are the areas that need to be addressed at the top of the draft and FA. If we can get those resolved early, the other needs can be met down the draft.

I am a huge fan of Moncrief, and was very high on him coming out of the draft. Injuries were an issue early on but I think he could do serious damage to defenses if we added him. Williams would be my top preference, another player I was high on as a prospect, but one or both would do wonders for our offense. Both have height and blistering speed.

I think we need to bring in at least 3 new receivers next year while attempting to trade off Garcon and Taylor.
is this season over yet?
  • nj9er
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Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
Good post, OTC.

Leaving it to the draft will not make this a playoff team soon. Too many holes. The FO should target as many starters from both FA and the draft.

I don't think this team is as far away as you may think. We lost 7 of 8 games in the last 3-4 minutes of each game. A lot of that is coaching on both sides of the ball. At the end of last nights game he became conservative and settled for a field goal to take the lead instead of going for touchdown. On defense with a terrible Giants line we only blitzed one time for our only sack?

I like Shanahan and what he has done on offense with all 3 QBs we have been able to move ball and generate points but I think the Superbowl meltdown has cursed him late in 4th quarter.

As for talent if we get an elite pass rushing linebacker paired with Buckner it will be like Smith & Smith all over again and the rest of the Defense will improve almost instantly.

On offense we need a diversity at the WR position somebody that will win contested passes.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
We learned that we are more than one draft and a few free agents from being a good team. Even if we hit on all 5 picks and sign 2 or 3 free agents they still need to come in and learn the system. Not to mention the guys that are here now need to step up and start playing like they are expected. Coaching staff needs to improve as well since they are still learning just like the players.

I think learning the system is a bigger challenge on offense than defense. A strong set of pass rushers should have an easier time adjusting than a receiver. I'd say a rookie corner on the other side would be the closest comparison, but still this cover 3 scheme is supposed to be simple. Young players in Seattle are executing with ease. I don't know if our guys are overthinking or what but realistically I think guys with legit talent will shine.

You could argue we are just one player away (quarterback) from tripling our current win total. We add even just 2 difference makers, we should be hovering around 10 wins in 2019. But I'm hoping we add more than 2 for next year.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Lack of Receiving Weapons: Part I
Jimmy G, CJB, and Mullens -- You've seen it. I've seen it. We've all seen it. And that "it" is their hesitation in the pocket and holding onto the ball while frantically scanning the field for a place to throw the ball. This is not a coincidence. As much as we wanted to blame Jimmy for eating it early on, and then CJB for getting lit up for holding it too long, we've now seen all three Niner quarterbacks with time to throw hesitate and wait and wait and wait desperately hoping someone will come open. Jimmy took sacks. Beathard got pummeled and fumbled. Mullens eventually forced balls into tight coverage hoping a guy would make a play.

Lack of Receiving Weapons: Part II

Kittle is the only guy who can get open so it's no surprise he's the leading receiver. As much as I want to like Pettis, it is abundantly clear he is terrified of getting hit. Taylor and Garcon are so slow and rarely separate unless a coverage is blown. James is promising, but needs a lot more snaps. Bourne is wildly inconsistent and his poor body language and lack of effort late in the game yesterday really pissed me off. Goodwin can separate but teams are often bracketing him knowing no one else can win one on one. There are only so many plays Kyle can design to go Kittle's way. Additionally, WTF is with our players flipping balls into the air? Are they coached to position their hands at a ramped upward angle or something? We must absolutely load up on talent at this position in the off-season if we want any QB to thrive going forward.

The announcers said Lynch told them they need an outside receiving threat to make this offense better. So, they are well aware of this deficiency. Everyone is.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
I think learning the system is a bigger challenge on offense than defense. A strong set of pass rushers should have an easier time adjusting than a receiver. I'd say a rookie corner on the other side would be the closest comparison, but still this cover 3 scheme is supposed to be simple. Young players in Seattle are executing with ease. I don't know if our guys are overthinking or what but realistically I think guys with legit talent will shine.

You could argue we are just one player away (quarterback) from tripling our current win total. We add even just 2 difference makers, we should be hovering around 10 wins in 2019. But I'm hoping we add more than 2 for next year.

You may be right but the pass defense right now is non existent. If it is so simple why are these guys not getting it. Some may just not be good enough but it seems like we constantly have guys out of position. There was one play last night that had Cassius Marsh covering a wide receiver. He didn't do a bad job but is that what was supposed to happen or was he covering for someone else. If that was called then our scheme is just bad because most of the time that coverage is not going to work.
Originally posted by captveg:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Lack of Receiving Weapons: Part I
Jimmy G, CJB, and Mullens -- You've seen it. I've seen it. We've all seen it. And that "it" is their hesitation in the pocket and holding onto the ball while frantically scanning the field for a place to throw the ball. This is not a coincidence. As much as we wanted to blame Jimmy for eating it early on, and then CJB for getting lit up for holding it too long, we've now seen all three Niner quarterbacks with time to throw hesitate and wait and wait and wait desperately hoping someone will come open. Jimmy took sacks. Beathard got pummeled and fumbled. Mullens eventually forced balls into tight coverage hoping a guy would make a play.

Lack of Receiving Weapons: Part II

Kittle is the only guy who can get open so it's no surprise he's the leading receiver. As much as I want to like Pettis, it is abundantly clear he is terrified of getting hit. Taylor and Garcon are so slow and rarely separate unless a coverage is blown. James is promising, but needs a lot more snaps. Bourne is wildly inconsistent and his poor body language and lack of effort late in the game yesterday really pissed me off. Goodwin can separate but teams are often bracketing him knowing no one else can win one on one. There are only so many plays Kyle can design to go Kittle's way. Additionally, WTF is with our players flipping balls into the air? Are they coached to position their hands at a ramped upward angle or something? We must absolutely load up on talent at this position in the off-season if we want any QB to thrive going forward.

The announcers said Lynch told them they need an outside receiving threat to make this offense better. So, they are well aware of this deficiency. Everyone is.

I would love to know who they've got on their list currently as top targets to pursue.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
I would love to know who they've got on their list currently as top targets to pursue.

TK mentioned that had JG not gone down, they were going to be in the mix for a big trade (Brown, Jones etc) but abandoned that after he got injured. I think an FA addition like Williams coupled with JG and McKinnon coming back (and hopefully the emergence of Pettis) will help out this WR corps dramatically
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