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2019 Defensive Progress & Robert Saleh Hot-seat Tracker

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Saleh was brought in because he fit the suit. He was familiar to Kyle and with the scheme Shanahan wanted run.
Sherman talks about the scheme being sound but that doesn't mean the players are prepared.
As pointed out in other threads, either defensive coaches are bad teachers or the players are dummies
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
You cited non-contributing players as "resources" for the defense.
The offense has received much more resources. They got a above average starter on the OL and a FQB in the past year while the defense got Sherman, a ST player and a Trent Baalke ACL special.

What?

Jimmy G is more resources than Moore, Sherman and Reed combined. The OL also got a high quality starting tackle in the draft. Tell me you are not measuring resources in "bodies".

He was had for a 2nd.

We spent our first 3 draft picks of the Shanahan era on defense. LOL

Outside of McGlinchey and moving up for Pettis this year, we haven't spent any resources on offense. And Sherman has been the best shut down CB in the league. Then, this year, they still added Fred Warner and Tarvarius Moore (for 2019), Kentavius Street, D.J. Reed, Marcell Harris & Jullian Taylor.

Shanahan took a late third round: C.J. Beathard, fifth round: George Kittle and fifth round: Trent Taylor and made them serviceable and in Kittle's case, a star. Richie James in the seventh. He's next.

For an offensive HC, he certainly has used most of his resources on defense.
[ Edited by NCommand on Oct 17, 2018 at 6:12 PM ]
Originally posted by evil:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by evil:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Truth.

Bumps and bruises... have to deal with the growing pains unless we put Malcolm at MIKE. Then do you try Fred at SAM or have him ride the pine learning and contributing on ST's.

I mean, Brock Coyle hardly knew this defense and the communication was fine.

Saleh must be adding a large number of wrinkles other than just Cover 3.

Played more man and have thrown in different blitz packages this year since we are pass rush deficient.

Thl and Jonnydel would better be able to answer the concern with more wrinkles being added in given the amount of tape they have combed through.

Agreed. It was just a theory given how confused they look now. Adding complexity is all I've got.
Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Yeah, I mean, like I said, I think they felt he would get it down eventually but the team is likely suffering growing pains it didn't have last year in terms of communication because we had a veteran experienced in the system (Coyle) relaying the calls. Now it makes sense why they liked him so much. We didn't blow coverage like we are now, but the plays we gave up came more due to simple lack of physical ability compared to the opponent.

I get that without Malcolm in the first two games, winning one of them, they probably felt we didn't need to take the radio from Warner but now it's clear that was a mistake. Yes, the coach takes blame for that one. My take is that Malcolm should be the one with the radio now. No reason to keep it with Warner until he knows the defense inside and out like a veteran.


Malcolm isn't on the field enough to wear the green dot, it has to be Warner or Foster, we already know Foster hates doing it so may as well let Warner grow into in the role.

Point taken, we may have to suffer more breakdowns until Warner is up to speed well enough to get communication right.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
You cited non-contributing players as "resources" for the defense.
The offense has received much more resources. They got a above average starter on the OL and a FQB in the past year while the defense got Sherman, a ST player and a Trent Baalke ACL special.

What?

Jimmy G is more resources than Moore, Sherman and Reed combined. The OL also got a high quality starting tackle in the draft. Tell me you are not measuring resources in "bodies".

He was had for a 2nd.

We spent our first 3 draft picks of the Shanahan era on defense. LOL

Outside of McGlinchey and moving up for Pettis this year, we haven't spent any resources on offense. And Sherman has been the best shut down CB in the league. Then, this year, they still added Fred Warner and Tarvarius Moore (for 2019), Kentavius Street, D.J. Reed, Marcell Harris & Jullian Taylor.

Shanahan took a late third round: C.J. Beathard, fifth round: George Kittle and fifth round: Trent Taylor and made them serviceable and in Kittle's case, a star. Richie James in the seventh. He's next.

For an offensive HC, he certainly has used most of his resources on defense.

Who cares if they suck? I consider "resources" for a defense to be something that provides value. Sherman provides value, Warner is learning. the others are meh at best.
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Who cares if they suck? I consider "resources" for a defense to be something that provides value. Sherman provides value, Warner is learning. the others are meh at best.

Oh, so now, spending resources only counts if they are all pros. Haha...got it.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Who cares if they suck? I consider "resources" for a defense to be something that provides value. Sherman provides value, Warner is learning. the others are meh at best.

Oh, so now, spending resources only counts if they are all pros. Haha...got it.

Spending resources is meaningless if they do not add value.
  • LVJay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 23,136
We could've been ahead of schedule... 2020 may actually be the year we become serious SB contenders (not just playoff contenders). I don't expect to see a lot of the guys we acquired (FA / draft) on defense by then. We've already got rid of a few (Toomer, Attaochu, etc.).

We'll be tinkering around for some time and several will stick. We're building up the depth with solid draftees who have potential to become starters. I think next year is when we actually spend a lot of cash. Hopefully we won't have to over spend.

He has to prove himself with a healthy, talented roster (we don't have that now).

The length of his leash depends on whether he costs the team games in playoffs (how many)...
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Who cares if they suck? I consider "resources" for a defense to be something that provides value. Sherman provides value, Warner is learning. the others are meh at best.

Oh, so now, spending resources only counts if they are all pros. Haha...got it.

Spending resources is meaningless if they do not add value.

Or MAKE them valuable by developing them like Kyle and his offensive staff have done with McGlinchey, Pettis, Taylor, Kittle, Breida, James, Person, Tomlinson, Goodwin, Bourne, etc.
[ Edited by NCommand on Oct 17, 2018 at 7:49 PM ]
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 53,786
Originally posted by susweel:
why do we need 3 saleh threads ?

if it was three threads to complain about him, they would be locked. but since it is supposed to defend him. its allowed. lol

Nice examples of players confused pre and post snap.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
A lot of fans pretend to hold players accountable while simultaneously calling for Saleh to be fired. Let's be honest and clear who we really believe is mostly at fault.

My opinion right now is it seems to be isolated to individual players the most so that's why I'm backing off Saleh recently. While the group has improved at tackling and avoiding penalties, there are a few guys who we see blow it weekly.

Other players on the team seem to know how to do their job, but it's the same individual players screwing up their assignments every week: Colbert and the collection of bums at LCB.. Ward, Witherspoon, and Mabin.

Witherspoon: burnt toast and penalty machine
Ward: injury prone, mistake prone
Mabin: Just plain sucks at coverage.

At this point they might as well try Reed or Moore and see if they have any better luck but as raw as they are it would likely be just another series of growing pains. So I look at that and see that it has to feel like an impossible situation for the coaches on defense having to choose between the dumb, the penalty machine, or the least talented.

This is an extremely reasonable assessment.

At a micro level, yes there are a few players that consistently blow it.

At a macro level, the buck still stops with the DC because he owns the defense and if guys aren't repeatedly performing at a fundamental level, you have to really consider sending a message (like they did last year). Whether it's benching players or finding a street FA who can simply be in the right spot.

I can deal with a discrepancy in talent and accept that a reason why a defense can't complete, but that has to be IMHO evaluated when said player(s) are doing the fundamentals first.

Thoughts?

This is why I won't be shocked if the team ships off Witherspoon even though it's only his second year.

Also, let's look at the fact that it's specifically those players in the secondary, so maybe more people should be giving more flack to that position coach than Saleh himself. I have to believe Saleh has emphasized that Haftley has to figure out a way to get things through these boneheads' minds so they stop busting assignments.

They've tried shuffling players already, the next step is to send those guys packing.

But it's not fact. It's the entire coverage unit minus Sherman. Check out the film thread...Ward, Mabin, LB's, Colbert, Tartt, Witherspoon, etc. The entire coverage unit is blowing it and taking turns throughout the games and from one game to the next. Colbert blows it and then he does the right thing the next game and then Ward blows it. I agree...if Hafley is an issue, then that too falls on the DC eventually if the same issues persist. And that's just coverage assignments.

Agreed. It's not just Colbert or Spoon. Ward and Tartt have also been guilty.

We cannot oversimplify this by saying it's just 1 or 2 players. That's a factually false implication.
We don't have one starting caliber player in our secondary minus Sherman. Hopefully we can salvage Witherspoon
Originally posted by lamontb:
We don't have one starting caliber player in our secondary minus Sherman. Hopefully we can salvage Witherspoon

Difficult to know if the players you have are worth keeping when they're not being developed properly.
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
Originally posted by lamontb:
We don't have one starting caliber player in our secondary minus Sherman. Hopefully we can salvage Witherspoon

Difficult to know if the players you have are worth keeping when they're not being developed properly.

I don't know how understanding assignment responsibility = talent. The two have zero to do with each other.
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