2019 Defensive Progress & Robert Saleh Hot-seat Tracker

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

To be honest, it's not that we failed with our draft picks, I actually think we added good players for the most part, just not sure we focused enough on needs. The biggest issue is we've failed in free agency, not the draft.

I agree with this...talent overall isn't that bad, we do have positions to upgrade for sure. It's been mental errors, poor tackling, and no rush.

I'm cool with the scheme, but I think they need to find a better coordinator. Not just about Xs and Os they gotta coach and not sure Saleh and guys in the defensive side are doing well at that. Hafley can kick rocks as well.

Saleh may know the scheme well but it seems like our coaches maybe aren't the best teachers.. That's big. Jimmy T is now beloved in Washington. He's a great position coach. I think we need better position coaches. Think we have too many guys that are in the training grounds for coaching (ST coordinator), especially on the defensive side (DL coach, LB coach, "pass rush specialist")

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

To be honest, it's not that we failed with our draft picks, I actually think we added good players for the most part, just not sure we focused enough on needs. The biggest issue is we've failed in free agency, not the draft.

I agree with this...talent overall isn't that bad, we do have positions to upgrade for sure. It's been mental errors, poor tackling, and no rush.

I'm cool with the scheme, but I think they need to find a better coordinator. Not just about Xs and Os they gotta coach and not sure Saleh and guys in the defensive side are doing well at that. Hafley can kick rocks as well.

Saleh may know the scheme well but it seems like our coaches maybe aren't the best teachers.. That's big. Jimmy T is now beloved in Washington. He's a great position coach. I think we need better position coaches. Think we have too many guys that are in the training grounds for coaching (ST coordinator), especially on the defensive side (DL coach, LB coach, "pass rush specialist")

Yup you can see the positions doing well have seasoned guys (OL and RB) too many young faces imo. That stuff matters

Originally posted by SisterFister:

Originally posted by teylo31:

Originally posted by ChazBoner:
This dude will get a pass for this season. Guaranteed. We'll be having this same conversation next year at this time.

Spot on

Unfortunately. You never know. It could get worse and Shanny+Lynch's hands might be forced.

the ego of lynch and kyle will not allow them to make any changes, the ego of those two will be this teams downfall in my opinion

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I agree with this...talent overall isn't that bad, we do have positions to upgrade for sure. It's been mental errors, poor tackling, and no rush.

But isnt "poor tackling" what "bad talent" means...in the end?
I always wonder that people say "the talent is there, its only bad tackling".
As if those factors dont count as "talent".

Niners have the talent. It's bad coaching all the way around. Players aren't disciplined, they're not put in the best position to make a play and I don't think the position coaches are on top of them enough. You can't just expect two have a defense full of first round talent and expect to win on that alone.

Originally posted by 49ersFan_vienna:

But isnt "poor tackling" what "bad talent" means...in the end?
I always wonder that people say "the talent is there, its only bad tackling".
As if those factors dont count as "talent".

You can teach proper tackling. I mean is Foster a "bad talent"? No he was looked at as a top 10 talent on the field during the draft for a reason.

Was Borland a "great talent" no not really. Coaching has to be better end of the day...ya think if Foster or Warner went to NE they'd be playing this poor? I sure as s**t don't think so.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by SisterFister:

Originally posted by teylo31:

Originally posted by ChazBoner:

This dude will get a pass for this season. Guaranteed. We'll be having this same conversation next year at this time.

Spot on

Unfortunately. You never know. It could get worse and Shanny+Lynch's hands might be forced.

I agree. If things carry on going this bad, at some point they will have to make changes or in other words start firing people.

Like I said, we now rank last in "points allowed", there is zero excuse to be this bad. I actually think there is a good chance Saleh will be let go at the end of the season.

The only question then is do we carry on with this so-called extreme violence 4-3 Seattle D BS or do we switch back to 3-4? Personally, I don't think it matters a bit. Just look at us, we look nothing like Seattle's D. Speaking of which, even after the Legion of Boom has been disbanded, did you know currently Seattle's total D is ranked 7th??!! How is that possible?! Not only did they lose the Legion of Boom, they also lost Bennett and Avril and they are still competing.

They actually had talent behind those guys but yeah better defensive coaching too.

In other words, it goes back to talent evaluation again. Lynch and Shanahan suck at it. It seems to me neither Adam Peters nor Martin Mayhew are helping much which makes it even more worrying.

To be honest, it's not that we failed with our draft picks, I actually think we added good players for the most part, just not sure we focused enough on needs. The biggest issue is we've failed in free agency, not the draft.

Agreed.

Seattle is doing an absolutely stellar job up there. Outside of Clark, Reed. Wagner and Wright, who are these guys?

LDE
Quinton Jefferson

LDT
Jarran Reed

RDT
Shamar Stephen

RDE
Frank Clark

OLB
Barkevious Mingo

MLB
Bobby Wagner

OLB
K.J. Wright

LCB
Shaquill Griffin

RCB
Tre Flowers

SS
Bradley McDougald

FS
Tedric Thompson

My guess is that with the defensive culture Pete employed and with the LOB and Bennett and company, they were able to ID scheme-fit players and these veterans were able to coach them up within the scheme and set the standards. When the LOB and ER ended, these backups were ready to go and challenged and coached up by Pete and Norton Jr.

Exceptional job.

I actually think we've got better or equal talent minus Clark.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Yup you can see the positions doing well have seasoned guys (OL and RB) too many young faces imo. That stuff matters

Great point!

Originally posted by NYniner85:
You can teach proper tackling. I mean is Foster a "bad talent"? No he was looked at as a top 10 talent on the field during the draft for a reason.

Was Borland a "great talent" no not really. Coaching has to be better end of the day...ya think if Foster or Warner went to NE they'd be playing this poor? I sure as s**t don't think so.

So what is "talent" then?
Another word for "athleticicm" ?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49ersFan_vienna:

But isnt "poor tackling" what "bad talent" means...in the end?
I always wonder that people say "the talent is there, its only bad tackling".
As if those factors dont count as "talent".

You can teach proper tackling. I mean is Foster a "bad talent"? No he was looked at as a top 10 talent on the field during the draft for a reason.

Was Borland a "great talent" no not really. Coaching has to be better end of the day...ya think if Foster or Warner went to NE they'd be playing this poor? I sure as s**t don't think so.

You can teach protecting the ball to prevent fumbles and interceptions too but nobody is blaming Kyle for the turnovers.

Originally posted by 49ersFan_vienna:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

You can teach proper tackling. I mean is Foster a "bad talent"? No he was looked at as a top 10 talent on the field during the draft for a reason.

Was Borland a "great talent" no not really. Coaching has to be better end of the day...ya think if Foster or Warner went to NE they'd be playing this poor? I sure as s**t don't think so.

So what is "talent" then?
Another word for "athleticicm" ?

Athleticism is part of it for sure. I mean was Foster a poor tackler in college? Hell no. Kid alway has a instinct about him when it came to finding where the ball was and attacking. I think he's been injuried more than we're being told BUT why does he all of a sudden not know where to go? Why is he tackling horribly?

Communication is a problem and has been since week 1, that's on the coaching staff. They're playing zone D and not even playing the guy when he comes into the zone. Guys aren't turning to see the ball. They aren't tackling though the guy. That's all coachable stuff. There's talent on the D but imo a lot of them are being setup for failure.

You can't tell me that they've just drafted horrible player after horrible player...again if it was one or two guys messing up then yeah I'd question that player. It's the whole D though.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

You can teach protecting the ball to prevent fumbles and interceptions too but nobody is blaming Kyle for the turnovers.

You don't think they've talked about the turnovers? ATL was plus 11 in turnover differential his last yr there...he was in complete control of that offense (only 11 total giveaways tied for 1st with NE)

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

You can teach protecting the ball to prevent fumbles and interceptions too but nobody is blaming Kyle for the turnovers.

You don't think they've talked about the turnovers? ATL was plus 11 in turnover differential his last yr there...he was in complete control of that offense (only 11 total giveaways tied for 1st with NE)

What good are those talks doing?
I am sure Saleh talks about tackling too.

I do hold Shanahan accountable for the turnovers. In general, if you have guys who cannot execute, then, you need to adjust how you play the game. That means a less potent offense. Look at our offense with Harbaugh's first year, when we went 13-3. Alex Smith threw as little as possible in every game, because we knew he was a liability. Having a great defense and running game helps.

But let's pause for a moment:

This defense is bad.

And not because the personnel is woeful, or because the core concept is bad. It's bad because guys are constantly out of position and confused with what to do. Compare this to Fangio's defense. Everyone was in the right spot. Having a badass front seven, with what would have been a hall of fame linebacker, and great d-line like Justin Smith, certainly helped. But at the core of it, guys knew where to line up and stayed on assignment. Much of our problems on defense are the result of busted coverages. We give up a touchdown every week on a busted coverage. That is the product of bad coaching. There's a difference between "Garbage Corner X" getting beaten, or "Terrible Safety Y" taking a bad angle and missing a tackle, and "guy running uncovered down the field, wide open" which happens with regularity.

Miscommunication and huge coverage gaps created by mental errors are a direct result of coaching.
The personnel might not be great. But these kinds of errors shouldn't happen, even with mediocre personnel.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

What good are those talks doing?
I am sure Saleh talks about tackling too.

I mean at some pt players gotta apply everything...you think JG would have 7 INTs and 5 fumbles over the past 4 games? I don't...he's shown he can have a top offense as far as not having giveaways. Talent matters.

As far as tackling goes, imo it's a league wide issue as well. I do think that's something more coachable then saying hey Breida, don't let aaron Donald rip the ball away from you like you're a child.