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2019 Defensive Progress & Robert Saleh Hot-seat Tracker

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  • jcs
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 29,835
Originally posted by NCommand:
NY85...here we go.

Ward still thinks he's the single high safety
Originally posted by jcs:
Ward still thinks he's the single high safety

Haha! You might be on to something there.
Originally posted by NCommand:
NY85...here we go.


The Packers executed this early but later on we blew up multiple attempts they tried with this concept. No excuse for the early mistakes, but to his credit, I saw Thomas, Blair, and I believe Malcolm Smith as well, all make sure to cover that gap to prevent Rodgers from having any chance off play action later in the game.
[ Edited by OnTheClock on Oct 19, 2018 at 5:54 AM ]
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by NCommand:
NY85...here we go.


The Packers executed this early but later on we blew up multiple attempts they tried with this concept. No excuse for the early mistakes, but to his credit, I saw Thomas, Blair, and I believe Malcolm Smith as well, all make sure to cover that gap to prevent Rodgers from having any chance off play action later in the game.

The problem is they always have early mistakes on this defense. Always. It should be called the "Saleh Staple" - give up a huge play within the first drive of every game. We'll see it again this week.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
The Packers executed this early but later on we blew up multiple attempts they tried with this concept. No excuse for the early mistakes, but to his credit, I saw Thomas, Blair, and I believe Malcolm Smith as well, all make sure to cover that gap to prevent Rodgers from having any chance off play action later in the game.

But, did the DB's fix their mistakes? If not, who is to blame? HAFLEY!
Originally posted by NinerGM:
The problem is they always have early mistakes on this defense. Always. It should be called the "Saleh Staple" - give up a huge play within the first drive of every game. We'll see it again this week.

Saleh even said that's an area they need to get better in...said you can't give up 17 easy points to the home team right out of the gate. Duh.
Originally posted by NCommand:
NY85...here we go.


So again, proof, it's the WHOLE defense, not just a few bad folks in the secondary - the whole defense.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
The problem is they always have early mistakes on this defense. Always. It should be called the "Saleh Staple" - give up a huge play within the first drive of every game. We'll see it again this week.

Saleh even said that's an area they need to get better in...said you can't give up 17 easy points to the home team right out of the gate. Duh.

Seriously. That's why they call it defense.

Again, this is what happens when you promote your projected LB position coach (who was pretty light on experience) into the role of DC. If we're going to keep him, we just need to realize he'll be learning on the job and will get routinely outcoached.
[ Edited by NinerGM on Oct 19, 2018 at 6:25 AM ]
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Seriously. That's why they call it defense.

Again, this is what happens when you promote your projected LB position coach (who was pretty light on experience) into the role of DC. If we're going to keep him, we just need to realize he'll be learning on the job and will get routinely outcoached.

Yeah I think that's been evident. Sherman, Shanahan and Lynch going to bat for him is automatic right now. All three follow social media. Those are the questions the media will ask. We don't have a Ken Norton Jr. to take over mid season...just have to hope he learns and grows and gives us a chance to compliment the offense.

50/50 if he's with us next season. System will probably stay though. It's sound.

Seattle is top 10 in yards and 7th in points with a bunch of no-names and they've already played the Rams.
[ Edited by NCommand on Oct 19, 2018 at 8:20 AM ]
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 53,898
Originally posted by NCommand:
Saleh even said that's an area they need to get better in...said you can't give up 17 easy points to the home team right out of the gate. Duh.

He says alot.. what is sad is that when he talks like that. his defenders come out and say.. well he is talking about it .. so what. he does nothing to fix it

  • evil
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 38,297
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Saleh even said that's an area they need to get better in...said you can't give up 17 easy points to the home team right out of the gate. Duh.

He says alot.. what is sad is that when he talks like that. his defenders come out and say.. well he is talking about it .. so what. he does nothing to fix it

How do you know he is doing nothing to fix it or other issues ? How do we know he is not a good DC or teacher ? If he keeps his job at the end of the season, it does not mean Kyle is making a mistake. Why ?

We've got a lot of belief in Robert," Lynch said on the "Tolbert & Lund" show. "Is that blind faith? No. It's faith because we know where he's been in his career. We know what his schemes are, what he's teaching.

Because we are not in the class rooms with him, we are not on the practice field with him, or on the sidelines during games. Kyle is though, and he is seeing how Saleh is running his D and what he is teaching and how he coaches his guys. Kyle is watching our film and seeing what the exact mistakes we are making and has a better grasp on where the real problems lie.

You can trust what you see, but what you see is the broadcast version not the all 22 film and we are not watching the game more than once. What you see or I see or anyone else sees may not be completely reflective of the coaching, sometimes it is on the talent and or lack there of. They will continue to build the roster up and find the guys who will fit the scheme and make us a better football team. If moving on from Saleh is the answer, then I am sure that is the direction we will go, but at this point there is a real chance he stays.

We fans can be right at times, but we fans can also come off as close minded at times. And we as fans should not be close minded to the fact that we could also be wrong despite how strongly we may feel. I do hope Saleh finds ways to improves this defense and helps players grow and develop because continuity is a good thing for us and Saleh's future at this point is in Saleh's hands.
  • Garce
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 50,180
Originally posted by NCommand:

Lol
The BLAME GAME: in Defense of Saleh....Kyle,...Lynch

The list of D transgressions...okay, outright FAILURES...is long and growing.. So a) should we be defending anyone, or b) should we be pinning the tail on th donkey.?

1.First question is obvious,...should we even be defending Saleh? Let's see...in recent times we had such stalwarts as , well, Jon O'Neil...and before him we had the doofus who thot he was the next coming of Bellichek and felt he not only should have been DC but also, HC. Unfortunately for Mangenius...and us..., he wasn't even a good position coach. As DC, both these turkeys failed. Don't have to go much further back, because in last 5 yrs we have had the absolute bottom of the barrel , talentwise, at DC.

As an aside , our last top notch DC was under Harbaw, or better it WAS Harbaw, mainly...but was that due to Harbaw ...or was it due to P-52, Cowboy, et al. Hard to say whether it was much on the DC or not, because of the awesome talent we had. Oh how we miss those days. Sadly, Harb's knew no O so we fizzled away two SBs, maybe 3 with NFL's top D talent. But the DC ended up being excellent. Talent? Or DC coaching? Good question.

So no question we vastly improved our D with Saleh on board, but was that because of 3 top 5 picks for the DL in last couple yrs? And vastly improving our run D, which could stop no team's running game...well, that doesn't exactly make a top notch D. Saleh was asked to stop the runs up the gut...and he did. After that i can't add much to what Saleh improved. We do have two stud LBs, Fred and Reuben, but THEY don't make a great D either.

2. Because of Baalke's fantastically superb drafting, we literally WASTED 3, maybe even 4 DRAFTS. That is, post draft, we had added no talent...except one...and that obviously was Buckner. Otherwise John and kYle completely flushed the duds down the drain and started anew. Exchanging 44 new players to a high school caliber roster...well, that doesn't just happen overnite...or in two yrs , either.

Once again we are down to, ARE WE SHORT TALENT...OR COACHING (DCing, that is)? Pretty obviously, it is both. Ask yourself this question. If we had Peterrs AND Aquib Talib as our CBs, and had two top flite safeties, plus a 3rd LB like a Kuechly, plus a decent ER and a top flite LEO...with Saleh, could he make that type of awesome talent into a top D unit?

I ask because of the obvious mistakes he continues to make.

—-Giving up 17 pts to open each game,
—-watching as Mabin literally gives away a game we had won (IN GB, no less)...and in spite of it being obvious Mabin could cover nobody, Saleh doesn't pull him, or take him aside and do some on the spot coaching up. Unfortunately, neither did HC Kyle...and he saw the obvious like the rest of us. I mean, is this solely Saleh's fault , or does the HC share some blame for not pulling Mabin's plug. Put anyone else back there...Arik, McG, Tomlinson, Brieda, Goodwin...literally, i mean anybody...and no one could possibly have done worse. Nope...Saleh went with Mabin and literally handed the game back to GB .

Kyle's O did great and came up big. But kyle is HC, not just OC. HE should have stepped in and put Mabin on the bench...but he didn't. If kyle is going to stick with Saleh the remainder of the season, then he has to step in when a "Mabin" happens and get him off the field. Here the pinnacle of bad DCing and crappy player met head on. And it was for two entire GB offensive series...yet nothing was done to change the situation.

Sorry, that is on not just Saleh, but also Kyle...and of course, the hapless Mabin.

—-regarding the continual broken coverages, or screw ups as in "whose man was that ?" Who does one place the blame on here? Sure we may have crummy talent, but the DCing, esp DB coaching? One time, unnh, okay. Twice...no bueno. But continuously? Crappy talent mixed with green or NO DC coaching. Here JL gets credit/ blame because we saw what 12? 14? DBs in camp...maybe more. And this is the best JL could do? Former HOF DB who can't find a couple guys to play DB? That's hard to believe.

—-and while on Lynch, NO ERs in draft? NONE? Sure we got a WR/RB and a starting OT. But no ER nor Leo...that one remains pretty hard to swallow. And the one he does bring in, Atachoo, is cut . So DC is less than desirable, but GM? Gotta wonder about what he was thinking about.

When one looks at the problems we have on D, and then add a rook DC to try and shepherd this mess, it sure looks like we need not a rook, but a seasoned DC to be working with these guys...those players of limited or no talent. As it is, we have the meek or blind leading ...well , the meek and blind.

This is not Saleh's doing,..this is the braintrust of kyle and john doing the hiring of coaches, DC and DB coach, plus the drafting and FAing of players. So don't put it all on Saleh.

22 games in i still don't know if Saleh is a good DC, or could be a good DC or not. Either he learns slowly or his players learn really slowly... or perhaps he was given players who can't even play a lick of D. But having the same guys or coterie of guys continually making the same mistakes...man, the players sure are poor, but the DC? Shouldn't he be making some progress? To watch the same blown coverages over and over. To watch DeFo playing outside instead of where he was meant to play. To see NO ER on the field...not even a bad one....

If we are assigning blame here, let's not put it all on one guy. Because deep in the heart of this mess, kyle and john L had a major role to play. Things are so screwed up on D, it is hard to know even where to start. That can't possibly all be on one guy...Saleh.

The only thing i can see is that we need top flite coaching on D, to make up for the inadequate D players we have. And how does a pair like AC and spoon go BACKWARDS from last yr where they had progressed so nicely? Unless both are injured, that reeks of bad coaching, Honestly i like Saleh, but think he is just in over his head with the talent that has been given him.

Problem is, if he had the good talent, could he make that into a great D? Answer: I don't have a clue. And that is NOT an endorsement of Saleh.
Originally posted by Garce:
Originally posted by NCommand:

Lol

Yeah, Lynch himself confirmed that just can't happen from the player, from scheme (nobody underneath Mabin) and communicating the situation to the player.
Originally posted by evil:
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Saleh even said that's an area they need to get better in...said you can't give up 17 easy points to the home team right out of the gate. Duh.

He says alot.. what is sad is that when he talks like that. his defenders come out and say.. well he is talking about it .. so what. he does nothing to fix it

How do you know he is doing nothing to fix it or other issues ? How do we know he is not a good DC or teacher ? If he keeps his job at the end of the season, it does not mean Kyle is making a mistake. Why ?

We've got a lot of belief in Robert," Lynch said on the "Tolbert & Lund" show. "Is that blind faith? No. It's faith because we know where he's been in his career. We know what his schemes are, what he's teaching.

Because we are not in the class rooms with him, we are not on the practice field with him, or on the sidelines during games. Kyle is though, and he is seeing how Saleh is running his D and what he is teaching and how he coaches his guys. Kyle is watching our film and seeing what the exact mistakes we are making and has a better grasp on where the real problems lie.

You can trust what you see, but what you see is the broadcast version not the all 22 film and we are not watching the game more than once. What you see or I see or anyone else sees may not be completely reflective of the coaching, sometimes it is on the talent and or lack there of. They will continue to build the roster up and find the guys who will fit the scheme and make us a better football team. If moving on from Saleh is the answer, then I am sure that is the direction we will go, but at this point there is a real chance he stays.

We fans can be right at times, but we fans can also come off as close minded at times. And we as fans should not be close minded to the fact that we could also be wrong despite how strongly we may feel. I do hope Saleh finds ways to improves this defense and helps players grow and develop because continuity is a good thing for us and Saleh's future at this point is in Saleh's hands.

I agree, good post. The ultimate point is it's not all on Saleh. It's not like he's sitting there taking zero responsibility for the issues personally either, but I think some fans are too set on penciling in one guy to blame for everything. A more reasonable observer would concede that more often than not, it's just not that simple.

No one is trying to absolve the DC of all blame, but I think we're being a little impatient and overemotional. I get it, it comes with being a fan. I think we need to see how the team finishes the season before we jump to call for the firing of a guy who oversees a unit that, despite some miscues, is statistically ranked quite a bit higher than they were a year ago and especially than than the year before that.
[ Edited by OnTheClock on Oct 19, 2018 at 8:08 AM ]
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