There are 217 users in the forums

2019 Defensive Progress & Robert Saleh Hot-seat Tracker

Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by SteveYoung:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Kyle is still producing. Saleh is not.

You can scheme offense. But defense needs talent.

One of the things Kyle said when he first arrived here was this ^^^.

That fact is one of the reasons John and Kyle insisted on 6 year contracts; they knew that acquiring the necessary defensive talent was going to take longer than just a couple of years.

That is a very fine point, and to tag along with the post below yours, it is probably true we won't truly know just how much certain players suck or their level until we have some new talent to compare them to.

People have said before, you can only polish a turd so much, but it's still a turd. I'm hopeful that some of these guys can avoid becoming confirmed turds by the end of the year.
Take Sherman's comments with a grain of salt but he laughed at the notion the communication issues were a result of a young Fred Warner wearing the green communication dot...he laughed and said, (paraphrased: No, not at all. Not on the communication breakdowns that have been visible). He actually told Grant Cohn it was a good question, genuinely. LOL
[ Edited by NCommand on Oct 18, 2018 at 1:50 PM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Take Sherman's comments with a grain of salt but he laughed at the notion the communication issues were a result of a young Fred Warner wearing the green communication dot...he laughed and said, (paraphrased: No, not at all. Not on the communication breakdowns that have been visible). He actually told Grant Cohn it was a good question, genuinely. LOL

So what is it? If he's defending Saleh and Warner but out of frustration says "it's a basic frickin coverage" -- and maybe we're reading too much into it -- but if not, it sounds like he's saying nothing less than "these guys around me should know better and are just playing retarded."
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by SteveYoung:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Kyle is still producing. Saleh is not.

You can scheme offense. But defense needs talent.

One of the things Kyle said when he first arrived here was this ^^^.

That fact is one of the reasons John and Kyle insisted on 6 year contracts; they knew that acquiring the necessary defensive talent was going to take longer than just a couple of years.

That's not completely what he meant (face value). This system takes a couple/three years to fully install and once the system is installed, then you can get to a stage of next-man-up and not miss a beat. Back in the 80's and 90's the question was, why were we so successful: was it the talent or the system? It was asked often because guys would go down and the next man up didn't miss a beat. But the talent was specifically brought in to FIT the system. We see that now. It's why a lower-talented WR like Dwight Clark could become a legend.

That comment also was said because KYLE can scheme better than anyone but he still needs the players that fit his scheme. Kyle is almost too confident that way. He explains he doesn't need any bigger-bodied WR's as that's a cop out. The smaller receivers should be able to be schemed open. That's not working too well.

Also, offense dictates games. Walsh's body blow, body blow, upper cut mentality.

Therefore, because the defense is typically in an automatic reactionary position, you need more talented athletes across the board. In a simplified scheme, even more so. It's dangerous because if one key guy goes down, it's hard to then, scheme around that (see Mabin on an island).

No doubt, this is why the first 3 picks of the ShanaLynch era were on defense, Warner was drafted, Reed, and Mitchell, Sherman and Williams signed in FA. And older veteran players were brought in on offense to help lay the foundation of the system.
[ Edited by NCommand on Oct 18, 2018 at 2:07 PM ]
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
So what is it? If he's defending Saleh and Warner but out of frustration says "it's a basic frickin coverage" -- and maybe we're reading too much into it -- but if not, it sounds like he's saying nothing less than "these guys around me should know better and are just playing retarded."

I don't know dude. He's probably just being a pro's pro and backing a rookie DC and player.

My best guess is he's talking about post-snap communication and overall play-recognition. There's some excellent examples in the film thread recently illustrated by thl on this theory.
  • Garce
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 49,788
Why'd he put Mabin over Witherspoon against GB when Ward got hurt? Strange move.
Originally posted by Garce:
Why'd he put Mabin over Witherspoon against GB when Ward got hurt? Strange move.


supposedly witherspoon was hurt too.

Yes. This team is soft. We know.

Either way, do you really think Witherspoon would have done a much better job? LMAO. He's having a Rashard Robinson type of year. Surprised that we havent shipped him to the Jets yet.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Take Sherman's comments with a grain of salt but he laughed at the notion the communication issues were a result of a young Fred Warner wearing the green communication dot...he laughed and said, (paraphrased: No, not at all. Not on the communication breakdowns that have been visible). He actually told Grant Cohn it was a good question, genuinely. LOL


Originally posted by NCommand:
I don't know dude. He's probably just being a pro's pro and backing a rookie DC and player.

My best guess is he's talking about post-snap communication and overall play-recognition. There's some excellent examples in the film thread recently illustrated by thl on this theory.

It's all 11 guys. Zone defense is a team defense. All 11 guys must communicate with one another, pre AND post-snap.

Example: If a WR on the right side runs an over route to the left side of the field, that involves three levels communication between the LCB, MLB, and WLB--RCB if there's no vertical or outs on his side.

Example 2: If 2 WRs run a smash concept on one side, the CB and flat defender(SS or SAM) must communicate to delineate assignments. Otherwise, you could end up having the SS/SAM and CB both carry the corner leaving the hitch wide open, when they can make a call and CB takes the corner, the FLAT defender takes the hitch.

There's so much nuance to communicating.
[ Edited by Heroism on Oct 18, 2018 at 4:30 PM ]
Originally posted by Heroism:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Take Sherman's comments with a grain of salt but he laughed at the notion the communication issues were a result of a young Fred Warner wearing the green communication dot...he laughed and said, (paraphrased: No, not at all. Not on the communication breakdowns that have been visible). He actually told Grant Cohn it was a good question, genuinely. LOL


Originally posted by NCommand:
I don't know dude. He's probably just being a pro's pro and backing a rookie DC and player.

My best guess is he's talking about post-snap communication and overall play-recognition. There's some excellent examples in the film thread recently illustrated by thl on this theory.

It's all 11 guys. Zone defense is a team defense. All 11 guys must communicate with one another, pre AND post-snap.

Example: If a WR on the right side runs an over route to the left side of the field, that involves three levels communication between the LCB, MLB, and WLB--RCB if there's no vertical or outs on his side.

Example 2: If 2 WRs run a smash concept on one side, the CB and flat defender(SS or SAM) must communicate to delineate assignments. Otherwise, you could end up having the SS/SAM and CB both carry the corner leaving the hitch wide open, when they can make a call and CB takes the corner, the FLAT defender takes the hitch.

There's so much nuance to communicating.

Thanks for expanding on that; excellent examples. One of the challenges he's faced is guys in and out of the lineup and like he said, if there's just one breakdown in communication, it looks ugly. Really ugly.

These guys are in for another big test this weekend. We'll see how it goes.
  • LVJay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 22,046
Originally posted by NCommand:

Yes, Saleh, this is why timeouts are ok to use, especially when you have 3 of them left...f**king unbelievable and frustrating all over again that this just came out #ACORNHEAD

Originally posted by NCommand:

Acorn Head trippin again...there are 3 types. He gave us two types, but the 3rd type is a coach who knows wtf he is doing and gets to keep his job because he is truly deserving of it, competent and earned it...not because the HC and GM are feeling for you
NY85...here we go.

  • LVJay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 22,046
#SalehScuses #AcornScuses
Share 49erswebzone