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Is it time for a defensive rebuild?

Is it time for a defensive rebuild?

  • Buchy
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,447
No - we're still rebuilding.

Salah has actually been calling decent games but his personnel choices have sucked in terms of how he's used Mitchell and Armstead over Thomas and used Ward at CB instead of free safety.

Going forward he needs to get Thomas inside, drop out Mitchell and use Jones in base personnel and use Mabin or Moore to cover Sherm/Witherspoon for injury.

We obviously need ER talent, I would throw bank at Fowler in the offseason and draft the best possible guy, even if it means moving up to get the best ER.
Originally posted by Buchy:
No - we're still rebuilding.

Salah has actually been calling decent games but his personnel choices have sucked in terms of how he's used Mitchell and Armstead over Thomas and used Ward at CB instead of free safety.

Going forward he needs to get Thomas inside, drop out Mitchell and use Jones in base personnel and use Mabin or Moore to cover Sherm/Witherspoon for injury.

We obviously need ER talent, I would throw bank at Fowler in the offseason and draft the best possible guy, even if it means moving up to get the best ER.

Truth is we are always rebuilding. Same for every other team. As soon as you think you have all the right pieces, someone gets hurt or leaves for another team. It never ends. If you are lucky you get 2 or 3 years of guys together and then you hope the offense is good at the same time. Sounds pessimistic but it is reality in the NFL.
Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Truth is we are always rebuilding. Same for every other team. As soon as you think you have all the right pieces, someone gets hurt or leaves for another team. It never ends. If you are lucky you get 2 or 3 years of guys together and then you hope the offense is good at the same time. Sounds pessimistic but it is reality in the NFL.

Very true...I see stacked teams fall to the wayside every year due to injuries. You always have a chance with a FQB but even then, you can only go so far. Building never ends.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Very true...I see stacked teams fall to the wayside every year due to injuries. You always have a chance with a FQB but even then, you can only go so far. Building never ends.

If it didn't we wouldn't need the draft and free agency. I think it is much harder than back in the Walsh/Montana era. Before free agency and salary caps you could stockpile players. Players were not as big then so I think there were fewer serious injuries. Guys are just so big and strong now that they have kind of outgrown their bodies. Bones and ligaments can't withstand the impacts. Look at the first Niner Superbowl team. The biggest O lineman was about 280 lbs. LB's were 215-220 tops. Better living thru chemistry.
Originally posted by Curlin:
My plan would be switching to a 3-4. First get a plugger. Meaning really big, fat, wide ass nose tackle like this who can clog the middle.

Add 2 run stopping defensive ends or keep Thomas and Buckner for that.They suck but you already paid them. Then draft 4 fast, pass rushing outside linebackers and hopefully 2 of them will stick. Keep ward and foster inside.

Did you just say they as in BUCKNER and Thomas??? You are entitled to your opinion but I don't think there is one person that watches football whether it be coach player fan analyst that would agree with you if that is the case. I hope it's not because well let's just hope you meant just Thomas. Even then Thomas isn't getting a chance at his natural position as much as he should but as of now you're entitled to your opinion that he sucks I think he's solid against the run but not against the pass will see
[ Edited by elguapo on Oct 6, 2018 at 8:38 AM ]
We're looking at another top ten draft pick.. And still have the same needs we've always had. Find a pass rusher. 3 first round d- linemen and zero pass rush so far. We're almost starting with a blank slate.
I think there's a lot of talent there, but we look weak up the middle imo. You put that guy on the ball that can't be stopped, and a lot of good things will happen. I think they will tackle better, they're a pretty young unit, so I expect some bad tackling at first. Can Buckner play end after we draft Ed Oliver?
Originally posted by English:
Wait a minute, Buckner sucks in your opinion? Before I say any more, just confirm that this is your view and that your werent totally pissed when you typed this nonsense.

what has he done?.......CONFIRMED..
[ Edited by Curlin on Oct 6, 2018 at 9:53 AM ]
Originally posted by Heroism:
This man thinks it's 1992.

Laugh all you want. We were 14-2 that year with the #1 defense in the NFC and gave up 5 rushing TDs for the whole year! Last year 15. Check your facts.
[ Edited by Curlin on Oct 6, 2018 at 10:12 AM ]

Originally posted by elguapo:
Did you just say they as in BUCKNER and Thomas??? You are entitled to your opinion but I don't think there is one person that watches football whether it be coach player fan analyst that would agree with you if that is the case. I hope it's not because well let's just hope you meant just Thomas. Even then Thomas isn't getting a chance at his natural position as much as he should but as of now you're entitled to your opinion that he sucks I think he's solid against the run but not against the pass will see

I said keep them both and get a man in the middle so I don't know what the problem is. Its quite clear they are not pass rushers so fatten them up and let them stop the run. Get your pass rush from the outside.

We also do much better drafting linebackers than D lineman if you look at recent history.

Bowman, Willis, Smith, Borland all were were very good. Unfortunately they are all gone.
Originally posted by Curlin:
Originally posted by English:
Wait a minute, Buckner sucks in your opinion? Before I say any more, just confirm that this is your view and that your werent totally pissed when you typed this nonsense.

what has he done?.......CONFIRMED..

You dont watch the game then. No further comment needed.
Originally posted by jays9ers:
The most maddening thing about the defense is how much we've put into drafting defensive players. So far we have little to show for those high round investments. We missed on armstead, and Solomon is looking more and more like a bust. Jimmy Ward is average to below average at best. Not overly impressed with Tartt at safety. Witherspoon is still hot trash.

We basically have two decent line backers, Buckner who is good not great and an old free agent Sherman who still has a little left in the tank. How the hell do we fix this?

I totally understand your frustration. But the wording of your post is wrong. The defense was never actually "built" so there is no real rebuild. We are one floor above the ground floor in terms of building the defense. Rebuild to me means we are starting over completely, which means going backwards before we go forward. The usual suspects like Jimmy Ward, Arik Armstead, etc were never going to be a part of what we are doing going forward. Even though I am bothered by the fact that the team picked up 5th year options on those guys, they didn't offer them a contract extension (like Jaquiski Tartt for example). So even though the regime may not judge them to be as bad as players as you or I do, they didn't give them a full vote of confidence either.

We have exactly who you said we have and everyone else is replaceable until further notice. But that is because we are at the very beginning stages of building this D. Things could get interesting if the coaching staff was shaken up some due to the lack of development of the defensive players.
Originally posted by jays9ers:
We're looking at another top ten draft pick.. And still have the same needs we've always had. Find a pass rusher. 3 first round d- linemen and zero pass rush so far. We're almost starting with a blank slate.

We knew before the draft in 2015 Arik Armstead was not going to be it. Calling him a number one pick at this point is like saying we should have one of our corner positions locked down when we drafted Mike Rumph. At this point, it doesn't count anymore. Cordarrelle Patterson was a first round pick at receiver and he adds nothing to any team's receiving group. Unfortunately, this team hasn't made a serious run at finding a pass rusher. It's evident in how they are using Solomon Thomas and the free agent signings they have made.
We blew up the team before last season. I'm not expecting much from this team until year 3, which will be next season. After next season we should have good idea of who this team under Lynch/Shanny will be. Judging before that just isn't fair to the rebuild. If we are not in the playoffs by year 4 of this something is really wrong. But they do need some time.
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