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Postmortem of a loss

This isn't going to be very intuitive, but why did we lose? One answer only. We can't tackle. A striking example came maybe midpoint in game, score tied or close with Chargers putting on a move. We punt and the punt returner runs thru no less than six pizz ant tacklers en route to 40+ yd return (or thereabouts). Next play...the very next play, the RB goes for another 15 yds, and again, runs thru 6 tackles.

After that, I just lost interest in game, watching one futile tackling event after another. Basically we currently are using three methods of tackling:

1). GRABBING...pretty self explanatory. RB goes thru the 9er line and a host of guys start grabbing at him. Not hitting him, but grabbing. Result? Called a missed "tackle". Honestly, it was missed GRABs.

2) PULL DOWNS...again, res ipsa( the thing speaks for itself). RB goes thru 9er line and our guys hang on and try to literally pull the RB down. Results? Pretty inefficient. Called a missed "tackle" , but tackle was not what they were attempting.

3)BUMPING...self explanatory and #32 made a career of it on Sunday. WR gets the ball ...or RB comes thru the line and #32, lines up his angle and then runs full tilt into the runner, resulting in a collision , or BUMP. #32 bounces off, and RB keeps going. Ruled a missed "tackle" but there was no attempt at tackling made. It was an all out collision, meant to knock the RB over, but all it did was change his direction, maybe 1 degree or so.

I quit counting after two consecutive plays of 6 missed tackles each. Granted they were grabs, pull downs, or bumps, but whatever you call them, it was NOT tackling. Curious as to how PFF rates those "tackles".

Were I HC, I would lay the playbook aside for the week and run five days of full contact tackling. Everybody. And do it until they got it right. Absent that, I don't see us winning another game if the "tackling" continues as it currently is. I think kyle is a good coach...a great OC. But until he gets this team to learn how to tackle, I see no more Ws.

Sure, injuries, injuries, injuries. But as noted elsewhere, everybody has injuries. We have a hard time fielding a team some games, and we are only 1/4 thru the season. But if we could tackle, even somewhat adequately, we would have won another if not two other games. Until that is changed, this team is just going thru the motions. Have Reuben and Fred lead the exercise. They know how to tackle.
Whilst I agree with your sentiment, they are limited by the CBA in terms of how many padded practices you're allowed.

Saleh says the right things in terms of tackling technique, however they aren't getting it, I'm not sure where the disconnect is, the players seem to like playing for Saleh, but they either don't respect him or his and other coaching styles are flawed.
Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Whilst I agree with your sentiment, they are limited by the CBA in terms of how many padded practices you're allowed.

Saleh says the right things in terms of tackling technique, however they aren't getting it, I'm not sure where the disconnect is, the players seem to like playing for Saleh, but they either don't respect him or his and other coaching styles are flawed.

But isn't this a HC issue when it is so rampant thruout the D? Yes it is Saleh's job but it is Kyle's team. And whereas i believe i understand where some of this came from, It is kyle's Problem in the final analysis. The reason it came about? Could it be from the vastly different method of tackling due to the new CBA rules? Others have surely noted the same on other teams...and have commented on it in national media. So that may be a big part of this, and if so, then i return to my original thot: spend all week on tackling, none on playbook .Because with tackling continuing like this (it appears to be worsening), the HC has got to do something. We lost one entire game due to lousy to non existent tackling. Why would that suddenly get better if no substantial time was spent on it.?
Can't they tackle bags all they want?
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 17,195
Originally posted by ilikecheerleaders:
Can't they tackle bags all they want?
Bags don't break tackles.
Just watch any game in the NFL, and you notice that GRABs, PULL DOWNs, and Bumpings are the tackle du jour. Every team seems to have it to lesser or greater extent. The RAIDS won courtesy of some monumentally bead grab tackling. And that was with MYles Garrett on the Browns...and no, he didn' T grab. It just seems to be everywhere.

The one team that figures this out first is going to have a huge leg up on the SB. Right now it is a matter of noting we have an endemic problem in the NFL...and that is caused by new safety rules.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Just watch any game in the NFL, and you notice that GRABs, PULL DOWNs, and Bumpings are the tackle du jour. Every team seems to have it to lesser or greater extent. The RAIDS won courtesy of some monumentally bead grab tackling. And that was with MYles Garrett on the Browns...and no, he didn' T grab. It just seems to be everywhere.

The one team that figures this out first is going to have a huge leg up on the SB. Right now it is a matter of noting we have an endemic problem in the NFL...and that is caused by new safety rules.

I think you're right that the new emphasis on roughing the passer, and the lowering the helmet rule has had a big effect on tackling.

I'm surprised more teams didn't hire top rugby coaches as consultants as they are now being asked to tackle the rugby way.

As a rugby player myself I recognise that Saleh preaches this method, (hips low, eyes up, feet close, wrap and drive) but it's not coming through yet.

If you watch the difference of Ruebens tackling from the Chiefs game to the Chargers he has clearly taken it on board.

The issue is that players have been ducking and lunging with their head down all their lives, you can teach new technique, but people revert to type when put under pressure, it just needs to be hammered home, on the practice field and in meetings until it becomes habit.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by ilikecheerleaders:
Can't they tackle bags all they want?
Bags don't break tackles.

This, though there are some really good drills they could do without full pads, a simple but effective one is making defenders hold things like tennis balls or wear boxing gloves (which means they can't grab) and do 1 v 1's in a confined space. You can control the speed the attackers can go or how many cuts they can make, it really helps teach fundamentals.
  • jcs
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 29,188
Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by ilikecheerleaders:
Can't they tackle bags all they want?
Bags don't break tackles.

This, though there are some really good drills they could do without full pads, a simple but effective one is making defenders hold things like tennis balls or wear boxing gloves (which means they can't grab) and do 1 v 1's in a confined space. You can control the speed the attackers can go or how many cuts they can make, it really helps teach fundamentals.


How are you supposed to tackle without getting a penalty?

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
This isn't going to be very intuitive, but why did we lose? One answer only. We can't tackle. A striking example came maybe midpoint in game, score tied or close with Chargers putting on a move. We punt and the punt returner runs thru no less than six pizz ant tacklers en route to 40+ yd return (or thereabouts). Next play...the very next play, the RB goes for another 15 yds, and again, runs thru 6 tackles.

After that, I just lost interest in game, watching one futile tackling event after another. Basically we currently are using three methods of tackling:

1). GRABBING...pretty self explanatory. RB goes thru the 9er line and a host of guys start grabbing at him. Not hitting him, but grabbing. Result? Called a missed "tackle". Honestly, it was missed GRABs.

2) PULL DOWNS...again, res ipsa( the thing speaks for itself). RB goes thru 9er line and our guys hang on and try to literally pull the RB down. Results? Pretty inefficient. Called a missed "tackle" , but tackle was not what they were attempting.

3)BUMPING...self explanatory and #32 made a career of it on Sunday. WR gets the ball ...or RB comes thru the line and #32, lines up his angle and then runs full tilt into the runner, resulting in a collision , or BUMP. #32 bounces off, and RB keeps going. Ruled a missed "tackle" but there was no attempt at tackling made. It was an all out collision, meant to knock the RB over, but all it did was change his direction, maybe 1 degree or so.

I quit counting after two consecutive plays of 6 missed tackles each. Granted they were grabs, pull downs, or bumps, but whatever you call them, it was NOT tackling. Curious as to how PFF rates those "tackles".

Were I HC, I would lay the playbook aside for the week and run five days of full contact tackling. Everybody. And do it until they got it right. Absent that, I don't see us winning another game if the "tackling" continues as it currently is. I think kyle is a good coach...a great OC. But until he gets this team to learn how to tackle, I see no more Ws.

Sure, injuries, injuries, injuries. But as noted elsewhere, everybody has injuries. We have a hard time fielding a team some games, and we are only 1/4 thru the season. But if we could tackle, even somewhat adequately, we would have won another if not two other games. Until that is changed, this team is just going thru the motions. Have Reuben and Fred lead the exercise. They know how to tackle.

Completely feel the same. No point to watching if we cant tackle. Its very surprising.

32 is reed? Yea hes terrible. Exum also is the master of tackling with your back. How can you wrap up anyone when you hit them with your back. Ugh.

Children among men.

The whole league is doing it? I dont think so. We lead the league. Us. This is what happens when you staff your roster with udfas and late rounders.

These guys practice their end zone celebrations more than their tackling. I guess children are entertained. No one else.
[ Edited by brodiebluebanaszak on Oct 2, 2018 at 2:20 AM ]
Agree with doc's sentiment that the problem is league wide. There's examples in every game of backs and receivers busting two or three piss poor "tackles" on the way to moving the chains. Usually involves grabbing or attempted shoulder charges that the runner brushes through or bumps off with ease. I'd say fans of most teams would be pissed about tackling.
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