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Jimmy Garoppolo Thread

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Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Meanwhile, Kyle is 5-23 in games Jimmy G doesn't start.

Better replace Jimmy.

So you're saying we should fire Kyle?

Not if he can get back to winning which I think he can as he had shown he can with Jimmy.

Why get rid of either?

So your saying we should keep Jimmy and Kyle and we will be a better team next year because of it?
in a perfect CAP world we might be.. but it's not so we need to make moves

Y'all need to stop worrying about the cap. I know that sounds head-in-the-sand, but there's no way the NFL is going to let the cap situation be as dismal as it's looking next year. These are ultra-rich owners. I'm pretty sure they're going to be willing to up the cap under an exception this off-season. Otherwise, any team in contention this year is screwed next year, not just us. They haven't released anything about it because this is the first year in a long time that teams actually have a LOT of leverage with pending FA's. Mark my words, there will be a cap adjustment right before FA this year and every will know what it is by February 15th.

Consider these teams and their cap situation:
Seattle - 2021, 19.23 mil cap space, 34 players signed(19 free agents) and no 1st round pick.
LA Rams - 2021, -20 mil in cap space(yes, that is correct, negative 20 million in cap space) 7 Free agents and no 1st round pick
Arizona - 26 mil cap space, 33 players signed for next year, 18 free agents(they currently only have 51 players signed)
TB - 30 mil cap space, 33 players signed, 18 free agents(including big ones like Lavonte David, Shaquille Barrett, Antonio Brown, Steve McLendon, Leonard Fournette, Chris Godwin)
PHI, -63 mil cap space(yes...negative 63 million) 45 players signed
Balt - 29 mil cap space, 40 players signed but Jackson will be due for an extension next season
TENN - 8.8 mil cap space, 36 players signed
HOU, -10 mil(yes, negative 10 mil) 41 players signed
KC, -13.9 mil(yep, negative 13.9) 36 players signed
Las Vegas Raiders, -6.2 mil(yes, negative 6.2), 39 players signed
LA Chargers - 31 mil cap space, 36 players signed, notable FA's - Melvin Ingram, Hunter Henry, Mike Pouncey
CHI - 655k, 35 players signed
PITT, -19 mil(yes, negative 19 mil) 34 players signed
MINN, -8 mil(yes, negative 8 mil) 46 players signed
GB, -17.2 mil(again, yes, negative 17.2 mil) 40 players signed
NO, -93 mil(Yes, as hard as it is to believe, negative 93 million) 44 players signed.

We are currently 15th in cap space next year and only 7 teams have more than 31 million in cap space for next year if nothing is done.

There are 3 teams with less than 10 mil in cap space and TEN teams with negative cap space. There's no way the NFL or NFLPA is going to let that happen with hundreds of free agents next year.

KC has 8 starters as FA's, IIRC. You think KC is going to ask Mahomes for a pay-cut? Also, those 8 starters don't have backups signed for next year either. They're in the same FA situation we are next year with 42 million less in cap space.

Anyone still not think the NFL isn't going to make cap adjustments?
Jon.. the NFLPA already negotiated with the NFL and agreed there will be a floor. The only way the floor is not met, is through higher revenue than expected. but TV ratings are low and that was the bell cow of revenue this year

The NFL and NFLPA reached an agreement late last week where the 2021 salary cap will have a floor of $175 million. The revenue loss will be spread out the next three years. If revenues are better than expected, the 2021 salary cap could be higher. This year's salary cap will remain at $198.2 million.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-consequences-of-a-lower-2021-salary-cap-including-the-three-teams-wholl-be-hurt-most/
Negotiating a floor is just a good faith maneuver. You can't tell me that they're gonna let 20+ teams have almost no cap space with hundreds of free agents and teams having to create at least a hundred more with cuts.

Everyone is gonna have to give something for this to work. Theres no way you're gonna have the Saints end up being over 100 mil in the hole or the Chiefs having to gut their team. It's not happening.

I see the players union agreeing to a 5% player salary reduction, top 44 players counting against the cap as opposed to 51 and a 7 or 8 mil add-on by the league. Are you telling me the owners and players can't afford that to alleviate the revenue dip?

Doing the above to the existing cap would create 12-13 mil in space for most teams.
Originally posted by JaggedJ:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Sickaa:
Originally posted by Niners99:
He's never lost back to back games in his career. It's insane how dumb fans are getting about this. He's clearly been hurt this year. Throwing him back for some rookie or some washed vet is an awful idea.

Probably because he's only played one full season throughout his career lol

32 career starts is a pretty big sample size for not losing back to back games.

SB And week 1 this season were consecutive losses.

In 2018 he needed a flag to bail him out of a pick six otherwise he would have started 0-3.

Stats are nice, but without context they're just numbers that have no real meaning.

The Super Bowl and week 1 were different seasons. Thus, not consecutive games. Thats not the point anyway.
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Meanwhile, Kyle is 5-23 in games Jimmy G doesn't start.

Better replace Jimmy.

So you're saying we should fire Kyle?

Not if he can get back to winning which I think he can as he had shown he can with Jimmy.

Why get rid of either?

So your saying we should keep Jimmy and Kyle and we will be a better team next year because of it?
in a perfect CAP world we might be.. but it's not so we need to make moves

Y'all need to stop worrying about the cap. I know that sounds head-in-the-sand, but there's no way the NFL is going to let the cap situation be as dismal as it's looking next year. These are ultra-rich owners. I'm pretty sure they're going to be willing to up the cap under an exception this off-season. Otherwise, any team in contention this year is screwed next year, not just us. They haven't released anything about it because this is the first year in a long time that teams actually have a LOT of leverage with pending FA's. Mark my words, there will be a cap adjustment right before FA this year and every will know what it is by February 15th.

Consider these teams and their cap situation:
Seattle - 2021, 19.23 mil cap space, 34 players signed(19 free agents) and no 1st round pick.
LA Rams - 2021, -20 mil in cap space(yes, that is correct, negative 20 million in cap space) 7 Free agents and no 1st round pick
Arizona - 26 mil cap space, 33 players signed for next year, 18 free agents(they currently only have 51 players signed)
TB - 30 mil cap space, 33 players signed, 18 free agents(including big ones like Lavonte David, Shaquille Barrett, Antonio Brown, Steve McLendon, Leonard Fournette, Chris Godwin)
PHI, -63 mil cap space(yes...negative 63 million) 45 players signed
Balt - 29 mil cap space, 40 players signed but Jackson will be due for an extension next season
TENN - 8.8 mil cap space, 36 players signed
HOU, -10 mil(yes, negative 10 mil) 41 players signed
KC, -13.9 mil(yep, negative 13.9) 36 players signed
Las Vegas Raiders, -6.2 mil(yes, negative 6.2), 39 players signed
LA Chargers - 31 mil cap space, 36 players signed, notable FA's - Melvin Ingram, Hunter Henry, Mike Pouncey
CHI - 655k, 35 players signed
PITT, -19 mil(yes, negative 19 mil) 34 players signed
MINN, -8 mil(yes, negative 8 mil) 46 players signed
GB, -17.2 mil(again, yes, negative 17.2 mil) 40 players signed
NO, -93 mil(Yes, as hard as it is to believe, negative 93 million) 44 players signed.

We are currently 15th in cap space next year and only 7 teams have more than 31 million in cap space for next year if nothing is done.

There are 3 teams with less than 10 mil in cap space and TEN teams with negative cap space. There's no way the NFL or NFLPA is going to let that happen with hundreds of free agents next year.

KC has 8 starters as FA's, IIRC. You think KC is going to ask Mahomes for a pay-cut? Also, those 8 starters don't have backups signed for next year either. They're in the same FA situation we are next year with 42 million less in cap space.

Anyone still not think the NFL isn't going to make cap adjustments?
Jon.. the NFLPA already negotiated with the NFL and agreed there will be a floor. The only way the floor is not met, is through higher revenue than expected. but TV ratings are low and that was the bell cow of revenue this year

The NFL and NFLPA reached an agreement late last week where the 2021 salary cap will have a floor of $175 million. The revenue loss will be spread out the next three years. If revenues are better than expected, the 2021 salary cap could be higher. This year's salary cap will remain at $198.2 million.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-consequences-of-a-lower-2021-salary-cap-including-the-three-teams-wholl-be-hurt-most/
Negotiating a floor is just a good faith maneuver. You can't tell me that they're gonna let 20+ teams have almost no cap space with hundreds of free agents and teams having to create at least a hundred more with cuts.

Everyone is gonna have to give something for this to work. Theres no way you're gonna have the Saints end up being over 100 mil in the hole or the Chiefs having to gut their team. It's not happening.

I see the players union agreeing to a 5% player salary reduction, top 44 players counting against the cap as opposed to 51 and a 7 or 8 mil add-on by the league. Are you telling me the owners and players can't afford that to alleviate the revenue dip?

Doing the above to the existing cap would create 12-13 mil in space for most teams.

Even with that the Saints are screwed. They've been pushing money down the road for years now and everyone's been waiting for them to get caught out.

Some of the teams with "less" cap than us have a lot of wiggle room. The Chiefs for example can free up 19-20mil by converting Mahomes roster bonus into a signing bonus if they have to. Steelers are similar with Big Ben.

Some teams are screwed regardless. Others are a little misleading, but we're pretty much how it looks. Not flushed with cash and not in cap hell either.

Our issue is that we don't have a lot of room to free up space with existing contracts. It makes Jimmy's contract stand out even more as he hasn't shown he's the type of QB who you restructure without thinking because he's irreplaceable.

It's a perfect storm of cap, health, play, and contract that has Jimmy under such an intense spotlight.

It's going to be a tricky off season to navigate no matter what the cap is set at.
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by JaggedJ:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Sickaa:
Originally posted by Niners99:
He's never lost back to back games in his career. It's insane how dumb fans are getting about this. He's clearly been hurt this year. Throwing him back for some rookie or some washed vet is an awful idea.

Probably because he's only played one full season throughout his career lol

32 career starts is a pretty big sample size for not losing back to back games.

SB And week 1 this season were consecutive losses.

In 2018 he needed a flag to bail him out of a pick six otherwise he would have started 0-3.

Stats are nice, but without context they're just numbers that have no real meaning.

The Super Bowl and week 1 were different seasons. Thus, not consecutive games. Thats not the point anyway.

What is the point? All you said was that he never lost back to back games.

Season gap, week long gap. Who cares. Put his games with a W or L on a line and there's too L's next to each other.

Is that fair? No, because that makes it very black and white with no context and that's a poor way to argue.

Which by the way - is my point.
Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:
Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
^ would be nice if they can do all that with $20mil, maybe $30 mil if they cut Ford/Richburg. Still need to grab a C and probably another ER and CB. So maybe they can get something like Mack and Kerrigan on some cheaper deals and then draft a CB. Going up he an interesting offseason

Agreed, definitely going to be an interesting offseason. I like some of those names you mentioned. Looking forward to seeing what they do.

yeah, it's a Lott to ask for.
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Meanwhile, Kyle is 5-23 in games Jimmy G doesn't start.

Better replace Jimmy.

So you're saying we should fire Kyle?

Not if he can get back to winning which I think he can as he had shown he can with Jimmy.

Why get rid of either?

So your saying we should keep Jimmy and Kyle and we will be a better team next year because of it?
in a perfect CAP world we might be.. but it's not so we need to make moves

Y'all need to stop worrying about the cap. I know that sounds head-in-the-sand, but there's no way the NFL is going to let the cap situation be as dismal as it's looking next year. These are ultra-rich owners. I'm pretty sure they're going to be willing to up the cap under an exception this off-season. Otherwise, any team in contention this year is screwed next year, not just us. They haven't released anything about it because this is the first year in a long time that teams actually have a LOT of leverage with pending FA's. Mark my words, there will be a cap adjustment right before FA this year and every will know what it is by February 15th.

Consider these teams and their cap situation:
Seattle - 2021, 19.23 mil cap space, 34 players signed(19 free agents) and no 1st round pick.
LA Rams - 2021, -20 mil in cap space(yes, that is correct, negative 20 million in cap space) 7 Free agents and no 1st round pick
Arizona - 26 mil cap space, 33 players signed for next year, 18 free agents(they currently only have 51 players signed)
TB - 30 mil cap space, 33 players signed, 18 free agents(including big ones like Lavonte David, Shaquille Barrett, Antonio Brown, Steve McLendon, Leonard Fournette, Chris Godwin)
PHI, -63 mil cap space(yes...negative 63 million) 45 players signed
Balt - 29 mil cap space, 40 players signed but Jackson will be due for an extension next season
TENN - 8.8 mil cap space, 36 players signed
HOU, -10 mil(yes, negative 10 mil) 41 players signed
KC, -13.9 mil(yep, negative 13.9) 36 players signed
Las Vegas Raiders, -6.2 mil(yes, negative 6.2), 39 players signed
LA Chargers - 31 mil cap space, 36 players signed, notable FA's - Melvin Ingram, Hunter Henry, Mike Pouncey
CHI - 655k, 35 players signed
PITT, -19 mil(yes, negative 19 mil) 34 players signed
MINN, -8 mil(yes, negative 8 mil) 46 players signed
GB, -17.2 mil(again, yes, negative 17.2 mil) 40 players signed
NO, -93 mil(Yes, as hard as it is to believe, negative 93 million) 44 players signed.

We are currently 15th in cap space next year and only 7 teams have more than 31 million in cap space for next year if nothing is done.

There are 3 teams with less than 10 mil in cap space and TEN teams with negative cap space. There's no way the NFL or NFLPA is going to let that happen with hundreds of free agents next year.

KC has 8 starters as FA's, IIRC. You think KC is going to ask Mahomes for a pay-cut? Also, those 8 starters don't have backups signed for next year either. They're in the same FA situation we are next year with 42 million less in cap space.

Anyone still not think the NFL isn't going to make cap adjustments?
Jon.. the NFLPA already negotiated with the NFL and agreed there will be a floor. The only way the floor is not met, is through higher revenue than expected. but TV ratings are low and that was the bell cow of revenue this year

The NFL and NFLPA reached an agreement late last week where the 2021 salary cap will have a floor of $175 million. The revenue loss will be spread out the next three years. If revenues are better than expected, the 2021 salary cap could be higher. This year's salary cap will remain at $198.2 million.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-consequences-of-a-lower-2021-salary-cap-including-the-three-teams-wholl-be-hurt-most/
Negotiating a floor is just a good faith maneuver. You can't tell me that they're gonna let 20+ teams have almost no cap space with hundreds of free agents and teams having to create at least a hundred more with cuts.

Everyone is gonna have to give something for this to work. Theres no way you're gonna have the Saints end up being over 100 mil in the hole or the Chiefs having to gut their team. It's not happening.

I see the players union agreeing to a 5% player salary reduction, top 44 players counting against the cap as opposed to 51 and a 7 or 8 mil add-on by the league. Are you telling me the owners and players can't afford that to alleviate the revenue dip?

Doing the above to the existing cap would create 12-13 mil in space for most teams.
This is very real.. while it's sounds crazy. Were not talking about trying to save highschool sports for a town here. There is a reality to it. Covid destroyed a lot of businesses and the NFL is is a business that is affected by COVID also.

The Owners and NFLPA union already agreed to a floor, they didn't agree on everyone taking a pay cut or taking over the bill for the balance of the cap. The NFL is paying for that floor to save the NFL from the worse possible scenario. If this pandemic happens another year.. the NFL might not be able to pay that floor again. That floor is already the sign that teams know a s**t storm of CAP hell can happen.

Some teams will make bad moves to keep players, some teams will have no choice but to cut players. hopefully revenue is good and we don't lose too much
Originally posted by thl408:
Jimmy not playing and not being able to avoid injury is my biggest concern with him. He already lost out on 3.5 years holding a clipboard for Brady. Then he lost 2018 to the ACL and now he lost half of 2020 to the ankle. That's 4+ years not playing, not getting live reps to develop. Using hindsight, I think him balling out going 5-0 to end 2017, then getting a large contract based off of those 5 games was a terrible thing to happen to him from the standpoint of perception.

His development path should have been similar to Brady, RWilson, and Big Ben. Young QBs on contending teams, supported by a run game/defense as they played the role of game manager while developing into the passers that they are now. But those three QBs didn't have large contracts when they were young in their development, so when they game managed their way to their first SB during those early years, it was okay that they didn't throw for 4K yards - they were young and developing. There were no expectations to be THE focal point of the offense. Jimmy with his large contract does not get that patience from the fanbase.

I am not saying Jimmy will be the QB Brady/Wilson/Ben is, I am saying his development path should have been like theirs. Some will say that Jimmy is not a young QB - age wise I agree. But playing time wise, he is not the typical 30 year old QB that has had 5+ seasons of starting under his belt.

He needs to play to develop, but this habit of missing time due to injury is severely hurting his development.

very well said. my biggest concern as well.
Originally posted by sacniner:
Lol


It may come down to how much the billionaire owners are willing to pay. All teams lost a lot of money this year. With so many free agents and a cap that will probably stay the same, the money is going to come from the owners pockets.

I was a small business owner at one time and went thru a bad period where I was going into my pocket to keep the business going. I didn't like it but I felt it was worth it in the long run. Rich people love their money. Now we'll see how far they're willing to go in order to protect their investments.
Originally posted by JaggedJ:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Meanwhile, Kyle is 5-23 in games Jimmy G doesn't start.

Better replace Jimmy.

So you're saying we should fire Kyle?

Not if he can get back to winning which I think he can as he had shown he can with Jimmy.

Why get rid of either?

So your saying we should keep Jimmy and Kyle and we will be a better team next year because of it?
in a perfect CAP world we might be.. but it's not so we need to make moves

Y'all need to stop worrying about the cap. I know that sounds head-in-the-sand, but there's no way the NFL is going to let the cap situation be as dismal as it's looking next year. These are ultra-rich owners. I'm pretty sure they're going to be willing to up the cap under an exception this off-season. Otherwise, any team in contention this year is screwed next year, not just us. They haven't released anything about it because this is the first year in a long time that teams actually have a LOT of leverage with pending FA's. Mark my words, there will be a cap adjustment right before FA this year and every will know what it is by February 15th.

Consider these teams and their cap situation:
Seattle - 2021, 19.23 mil cap space, 34 players signed(19 free agents) and no 1st round pick.
LA Rams - 2021, -20 mil in cap space(yes, that is correct, negative 20 million in cap space) 7 Free agents and no 1st round pick
Arizona - 26 mil cap space, 33 players signed for next year, 18 free agents(they currently only have 51 players signed)
TB - 30 mil cap space, 33 players signed, 18 free agents(including big ones like Lavonte David, Shaquille Barrett, Antonio Brown, Steve McLendon, Leonard Fournette, Chris Godwin)
PHI, -63 mil cap space(yes...negative 63 million) 45 players signed
Balt - 29 mil cap space, 40 players signed but Jackson will be due for an extension next season
TENN - 8.8 mil cap space, 36 players signed
HOU, -10 mil(yes, negative 10 mil) 41 players signed
KC, -13.9 mil(yep, negative 13.9) 36 players signed
Las Vegas Raiders, -6.2 mil(yes, negative 6.2), 39 players signed
LA Chargers - 31 mil cap space, 36 players signed, notable FA's - Melvin Ingram, Hunter Henry, Mike Pouncey
CHI - 655k, 35 players signed
PITT, -19 mil(yes, negative 19 mil) 34 players signed
MINN, -8 mil(yes, negative 8 mil) 46 players signed
GB, -17.2 mil(again, yes, negative 17.2 mil) 40 players signed
NO, -93 mil(Yes, as hard as it is to believe, negative 93 million) 44 players signed.

We are currently 15th in cap space next year and only 7 teams have more than 31 million in cap space for next year if nothing is done.

There are 3 teams with less than 10 mil in cap space and TEN teams with negative cap space. There's no way the NFL or NFLPA is going to let that happen with hundreds of free agents next year.

KC has 8 starters as FA's, IIRC. You think KC is going to ask Mahomes for a pay-cut? Also, those 8 starters don't have backups signed for next year either. They're in the same FA situation we are next year with 42 million less in cap space.

Anyone still not think the NFL isn't going to make cap adjustments?
Jon.. the NFLPA already negotiated with the NFL and agreed there will be a floor. The only way the floor is not met, is through higher revenue than expected. but TV ratings are low and that was the bell cow of revenue this year

The NFL and NFLPA reached an agreement late last week where the 2021 salary cap will have a floor of $175 million. The revenue loss will be spread out the next three years. If revenues are better than expected, the 2021 salary cap could be higher. This year's salary cap will remain at $198.2 million.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-consequences-of-a-lower-2021-salary-cap-including-the-three-teams-wholl-be-hurt-most/
Negotiating a floor is just a good faith maneuver. You can't tell me that they're gonna let 20+ teams have almost no cap space with hundreds of free agents and teams having to create at least a hundred more with cuts.

Everyone is gonna have to give something for this to work. Theres no way you're gonna have the Saints end up being over 100 mil in the hole or the Chiefs having to gut their team. It's not happening.

I see the players union agreeing to a 5% player salary reduction, top 44 players counting against the cap as opposed to 51 and a 7 or 8 mil add-on by the league. Are you telling me the owners and players can't afford that to alleviate the revenue dip?

Doing the above to the existing cap would create 12-13 mil in space for most teams.

Even with that the Saints are screwed. They've been pushing money down the road for years now and everyone's been waiting for them to get caught out.

Some of the teams with "less" cap than us have a lot of wiggle room. The Chiefs for example can free up 19-20mil by converting Mahomes roster bonus into a signing bonus if they have to. Steelers are similar with Big Ben.

Some teams are screwed regardless. Others are a little misleading, but we're pretty much how it looks. Not flushed with cash and not in cap hell either.

Our issue is that we don't have a lot of room to free up space with existing contracts. It makes Jimmy's contract stand out even more as he hasn't shown he's the type of QB who you restructure without thinking because he's irreplaceable.

It's a perfect storm of cap, health, play, and contract that has Jimmy under such an intense spotlight.

It's going to be a tricky off season to navigate no matter what the cap is set at.

The saints are screwed either way, that's not the biggest issue. Having teams convert to signing bonuses and kick the can still isn't an effective solution for the league. If owners are willing to dole out 25 mil in bonus checks to a few players this year, why wouldn't they be more apt to paying out 12 mil above the cap? That makes more sense, is cheaper and helps the entire league.

The NFLPA is going to work with the NFL to make this happen, if not you're talking about a massive market reset.

There are hundreds of pending free agents, many with big names. If the cap just stays as it is, you're going to see many, many big name/contract guys get cut to make the cap. That will flood the market with high profile players in a year where very few teams have space. You won't have bidding wars and guys will be looking at taking reduced market contracts or not being paid. That's not happening.

I really do see a 5-7% pay reduction, claused into new contracts as well that way they can keep the market values stable.

Seriously, you can't believe the NFL is ok with 10 teams going into the off-seaskn with negative cap room.

Even if the Chiefs convert Mahomes and save 19 mil, they still would only have 6 mil in space and have 8 starters entering FA with 20 spots to fill on the roster total. They wouldn't even be able to sign a rookie class with 6 mil in space. So, you're talking about having to free up ANOTHER 13-15 mil just to fill your roster out with rookies and vet minimum players.

Big Ben more flexibility? Only with an extension that would massively kick the can down the road for a HUGE cap hit. Hes a 41 mil cap hit next year in the last year of the contract. You're talking about adding 10 mil/year to a 3 year extension to save 30 this year. Hes gonna get a 35-40/year extension. How do they navigate a 35 mil increase from 2021 to 2022?

These conversion solutions aren't practical for the league. The entire league is facing this problem because both thr NFLPA and NFL never assumed a massive down year like this. So, the market is way too inflated to absorb this kind of thing.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Meanwhile, Kyle is 5-23 in games Jimmy G doesn't start.

Better replace Jimmy.

So you're saying we should fire Kyle?

Not if he can get back to winning which I think he can as he had shown he can with Jimmy.

Why get rid of either?

So your saying we should keep Jimmy and Kyle and we will be a better team next year because of it?
in a perfect CAP world we might be.. but it's not so we need to make moves

Y'all need to stop worrying about the cap. I know that sounds head-in-the-sand, but there's no way the NFL is going to let the cap situation be as dismal as it's looking next year. These are ultra-rich owners. I'm pretty sure they're going to be willing to up the cap under an exception this off-season. Otherwise, any team in contention this year is screwed next year, not just us. They haven't released anything about it because this is the first year in a long time that teams actually have a LOT of leverage with pending FA's. Mark my words, there will be a cap adjustment right before FA this year and every will know what it is by February 15th.

Consider these teams and their cap situation:
Seattle - 2021, 19.23 mil cap space, 34 players signed(19 free agents) and no 1st round pick.
LA Rams - 2021, -20 mil in cap space(yes, that is correct, negative 20 million in cap space) 7 Free agents and no 1st round pick
Arizona - 26 mil cap space, 33 players signed for next year, 18 free agents(they currently only have 51 players signed)
TB - 30 mil cap space, 33 players signed, 18 free agents(including big ones like Lavonte David, Shaquille Barrett, Antonio Brown, Steve McLendon, Leonard Fournette, Chris Godwin)
PHI, -63 mil cap space(yes...negative 63 million) 45 players signed
Balt - 29 mil cap space, 40 players signed but Jackson will be due for an extension next season
TENN - 8.8 mil cap space, 36 players signed
HOU, -10 mil(yes, negative 10 mil) 41 players signed
KC, -13.9 mil(yep, negative 13.9) 36 players signed
Las Vegas Raiders, -6.2 mil(yes, negative 6.2), 39 players signed
LA Chargers - 31 mil cap space, 36 players signed, notable FA's - Melvin Ingram, Hunter Henry, Mike Pouncey
CHI - 655k, 35 players signed
PITT, -19 mil(yes, negative 19 mil) 34 players signed
MINN, -8 mil(yes, negative 8 mil) 46 players signed
GB, -17.2 mil(again, yes, negative 17.2 mil) 40 players signed
NO, -93 mil(Yes, as hard as it is to believe, negative 93 million) 44 players signed.

We are currently 15th in cap space next year and only 7 teams have more than 31 million in cap space for next year if nothing is done.

There are 3 teams with less than 10 mil in cap space and TEN teams with negative cap space. There's no way the NFL or NFLPA is going to let that happen with hundreds of free agents next year.

KC has 8 starters as FA's, IIRC. You think KC is going to ask Mahomes for a pay-cut? Also, those 8 starters don't have backups signed for next year either. They're in the same FA situation we are next year with 42 million less in cap space.

Anyone still not think the NFL isn't going to make cap adjustments?
Jon.. the NFLPA already negotiated with the NFL and agreed there will be a floor. The only way the floor is not met, is through higher revenue than expected. but TV ratings are low and that was the bell cow of revenue this year

The NFL and NFLPA reached an agreement late last week where the 2021 salary cap will have a floor of $175 million. The revenue loss will be spread out the next three years. If revenues are better than expected, the 2021 salary cap could be higher. This year's salary cap will remain at $198.2 million.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-consequences-of-a-lower-2021-salary-cap-including-the-three-teams-wholl-be-hurt-most/
Negotiating a floor is just a good faith maneuver. You can't tell me that they're gonna let 20+ teams have almost no cap space with hundreds of free agents and teams having to create at least a hundred more with cuts.

Everyone is gonna have to give something for this to work. Theres no way you're gonna have the Saints end up being over 100 mil in the hole or the Chiefs having to gut their team. It's not happening.

I see the players union agreeing to a 5% player salary reduction, top 44 players counting against the cap as opposed to 51 and a 7 or 8 mil add-on by the league. Are you telling me the owners and players can't afford that to alleviate the revenue dip?

Doing the above to the existing cap would create 12-13 mil in space for most teams.
This is very real.. while it's sounds crazy. Were not talking about trying to save highschool sports for a town here. There is a reality to it. Covid destroyed a lot of businesses and the NFL is is a business that is affected by COVID also.

The Owners and NFLPA union already agreed to a floor, they didn't agree on everyone taking a pay cut or taking over the bill for the balance of the cap. The NFL is paying for that floor to save the NFL from the worse possible scenario. If this pandemic happens another year.. the NFL might not be able to pay that floor again. That floor is already the sign that teams know a s**t storm of CAP hell can happen.

Some teams will make bad moves to keep players, some teams will have no choice but to cut players. hopefully revenue is good and we don't lose too much

Right, the money will come from somewhere. I see both sides understanding that each will have to give something. Owners will have to dip into their pockets more and players will have to take pay-cuts. Either way, cap room will be created. If not, players, as a whole, will see MASSIVE
Pay cuts due to a market reset that would take years to come back around to.
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Y'all need to stop worrying about the cap. I know that sounds head-in-the-sand, but there's no way the NFL is going to let the cap situation be as dismal as it's looking next year. These are ultra-rich owners. I'm pretty sure they're going to be willing to up the cap under an exception this off-season. Otherwise, any team in contention this year is screwed next year, not just us. They haven't released anything about it because this is the first year in a long time that teams actually have a LOT of leverage with pending FA's. Mark my words, there will be a cap adjustment right before FA this year and every will know what it is by February 15th.

Consider these teams and their cap situation:
Seattle - 2021, 19.23 mil cap space, 34 players signed(19 free agents) and no 1st round pick.
LA Rams - 2021, -20 mil in cap space(yes, that is correct, negative 20 million in cap space) 7 Free agents and no 1st round pick
Arizona - 26 mil cap space, 33 players signed for next year, 18 free agents(they currently only have 51 players signed)
TB - 30 mil cap space, 33 players signed, 18 free agents(including big ones like Lavonte David, Shaquille Barrett, Antonio Brown, Steve McLendon, Leonard Fournette, Chris Godwin)
PHI, -63 mil cap space(yes...negative 63 million) 45 players signed
Balt - 29 mil cap space, 40 players signed but Jackson will be due for an extension next season
TENN - 8.8 mil cap space, 36 players signed
HOU, -10 mil(yes, negative 10 mil) 41 players signed
KC, -13.9 mil(yep, negative 13.9) 36 players signed
Las Vegas Raiders, -6.2 mil(yes, negative 6.2), 39 players signed
LA Chargers - 31 mil cap space, 36 players signed, notable FA's - Melvin Ingram, Hunter Henry, Mike Pouncey
CHI - 655k, 35 players signed
PITT, -19 mil(yes, negative 19 mil) 34 players signed
MINN, -8 mil(yes, negative 8 mil) 46 players signed
GB, -17.2 mil(again, yes, negative 17.2 mil) 40 players signed
NO, -93 mil(Yes, as hard as it is to believe, negative 93 million) 44 players signed.

We are currently 15th in cap space next year and only 7 teams have more than 31 million in cap space for next year if nothing is done.

There are 3 teams with less than 10 mil in cap space and TEN teams with negative cap space. There's no way the NFL or NFLPA is going to let that happen with hundreds of free agents next year.

KC has 8 starters as FA's, IIRC. You think KC is going to ask Mahomes for a pay-cut? Also, those 8 starters don't have backups signed for next year either. They're in the same FA situation we are next year with 42 million less in cap space.

Anyone still not think the NFL isn't going to make cap adjustments?

Thank You!!!
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by TheGore49er:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Sickaa:
Originally posted by Niners99:
He's never lost back to back games in his career. It's insane how dumb fans are getting about this. He's clearly been hurt this year. Throwing him back for some rookie or some washed vet is an awful idea.

Probably because he's only played one full season throughout his career lol

32 career starts is a pretty big sample size for not losing back to back games.

Meanwhile, Kyle is 5-23 in games Jimmy G doesn't start.

Better replace Jimmy.

When it comes to politics you somewhat logical and try to look at the bigger picture. Why is it so different with Jimmy lol

Isn't the big picture about the team winning like crazy with Jimmy and sucking balls without him?

I'm not saying that Jimmy G is dense, but could it be that Kyle's entire offense is too big for him?
When he first got here and they streamlined the game plans for him he seemed like a different player. Maybe Kyle is overloading /confusing him along with opposing defenses. I remember seeing Scangarella <sp>? going over the game plan with him between every series and he was very effective.
New QB coach maybe?

I'd hate to see them get rid of him because it was a loooooong wait for a game winning QB between Garcia and finally tail end of Alex Smith/Kapernick and then after them waiting til Jimmy G showed up. I'd keep him until somebody better is in the building. Restructure his deal to make it work a few more years and draft QB early this year while we're down and drafting higher again. Getting rid of him and hoping that a 1st round rookie QB will be the answer is a big gamble.
They may hit on Mahomes 2.0 but odds are better that they end up with Beathard 2.0 or heaven forbid Ryan Leaf or Druckenmiller clones

Shanahan had talked about drafting Beathard because he played in a pro-style offense in college ( or maybe because he lined up under center) so hoping he's going to switch it up and draft a scrambling gunslinger like R Wilson is no guarantee
  • 9moon
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,491
Originally posted by JaggedJ:
Originally posted by 9moon:
Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
Originally posted by 9moon:
Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
Originally posted by 9moon:
Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
I'm leaning towards having a rookie qb giving us cap space so we can resign key guys and sign a guy or 2 for depth or even a starting caliber oline man who won't break the bank. I think when healthy this squad is the class of the NFC and I don't see why a guy like Wilson or Lance couldn't do the things Jimmy did with Kyle making things easier for them until they grasp the system as they go. Plus those guys can stretch a d over the top, I don't know if it's ever been done but this roster is set up for a rookie qb to win a SB IF it's the right guy.

ROOKIE QB, you best target the guy you really want tho... if he's not there, then don't be forcing no CJ issue like !!

That's what I meant, for me it's either Wilson or Lance or nothing at all. I'm not settling with Jones or Trask, Lynch has to be aggressive in getting one of them

but the problem w/that is, we have a coach or even a GM (just like LOTS of fans here) that would not ROLL THE DICE and trade a bunch of picks in order to land a QB..

Making a big deal (trades), we've seen both sides of the coin... remember how Dallas built their team in the Hershel Walker trade.. and remember how the Rams couldn't build a winner after trading Eric Dickerson..

Drafting is all about getting lucky anyway.. if you want a certain player, heck, go get the guy.. KC did that w/Mahomes and no one is NOW saying that they gave up too much !!

IF Lynch is smart and like Lance, then trade up and give up picks or even player(s) because if this works out, you'd have your job forever... but if you try to be the cool team that sits and believe that a Joe or a Tom would find their way to the team, you may not be there to see that anyhow..

so, if the BENGALS somehow end up w/the 1st overall pick and want to trade it, I would offer multiple picks with Bosa or Kittle or Warner to complete it..

I will and find players like them again, but TREVOR, you'll have to wait for this kid name ARCH to see another GENERATIONAL PLAYER..
This isn't the 1st time you came up with the nonsense of trading either Bosa, Warner or Kittle. I'm not gonna argue it since it's beyond ridiculous


Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
Originally posted by 9moon:
Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
Originally posted by 9moon:
Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
I'm leaning towards having a rookie qb giving us cap space so we can resign key guys and sign a guy or 2 for depth or even a starting caliber oline man who won't break the bank. I think when healthy this squad is the class of the NFC and I don't see why a guy like Wilson or Lance couldn't do the things Jimmy did with Kyle making things easier for them until they grasp the system as they go. Plus those guys can stretch a d over the top, I don't know if it's ever been done but this roster is set up for a rookie qb to win a SB IF it's the right guy.

ROOKIE QB, you best target the guy you really want tho... if he's not there, then don't be forcing no CJ issue like !!

That's what I meant, for me it's either Wilson or Lance or nothing at all. I'm not settling with Jones or Trask, Lynch has to be aggressive in getting one of them

but the problem w/that is, we have a coach or even a GM (just like LOTS of fans here) that would not ROLL THE DICE and trade a bunch of picks in order to land a QB..

Making a big deal (trades), we've seen both sides of the coin... remember how Dallas built their team in the Hershel Walker trade.. and remember how the Rams couldn't build a winner after trading Eric Dickerson..

Drafting is all about getting lucky anyway.. if you want a certain player, heck, go get the guy.. KC did that w/Mahomes and no one is NOW saying that they gave up too much !!

IF Lynch is smart and like Lance, then trade up and give up picks or even player(s) because if this works out, you'd have your job forever... but if you try to be the cool team that sits and believe that a Joe or a Tom would find their way to the team, you may not be there to see that anyhow..

so, if the BENGALS somehow end up w/the 1st overall pick and want to trade it, I would offer multiple picks with Bosa or Kittle or Warner to complete it..

I will and find players like them again, but TREVOR, you'll have to wait for this kid name ARCH to see another GENERATIONAL PLAYER..
This isn't the 1st time you came up with the nonsense of trading either Bosa, Warner or Kittle. I'm not gonna argue it since it's beyond ridiculous

YOU still don't get it... IF Cincy gets the 1st overall pick and is willing to trade to us at THAT cost, will you pull the trigger to land TREVOR !!??

It's a yes or no question to see how much you support the idea of GETTING THE QB THAT YOU WANT..

The fact he says it's a ridiculous trade tells you what the answer is.

And he's right, it's a ridiculous trade.

OK THEN, don't expect to land one of the TOP QBs by only giving up a 1st rounder or trading places...
Originally posted by 9moon:
Originally posted by JaggedJ:
Originally posted by 9moon:
Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
Originally posted by 9moon:
Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
Originally posted by 9moon:
Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
I'm leaning towards having a rookie qb giving us cap space so we can resign key guys and sign a guy or 2 for depth or even a starting caliber oline man who won't break the bank. I think when healthy this squad is the class of the NFC and I don't see why a guy like Wilson or Lance couldn't do the things Jimmy did with Kyle making things easier for them until they grasp the system as they go. Plus those guys can stretch a d over the top, I don't know if it's ever been done but this roster is set up for a rookie qb to win a SB IF it's the right guy.

ROOKIE QB, you best target the guy you really want tho... if he's not there, then don't be forcing no CJ issue like !!

That's what I meant, for me it's either Wilson or Lance or nothing at all. I'm not settling with Jones or Trask, Lynch has to be aggressive in getting one of them

but the problem w/that is, we have a coach or even a GM (just like LOTS of fans here) that would not ROLL THE DICE and trade a bunch of picks in order to land a QB..

Making a big deal (trades), we've seen both sides of the coin... remember how Dallas built their team in the Hershel Walker trade.. and remember how the Rams couldn't build a winner after trading Eric Dickerson..

Drafting is all about getting lucky anyway.. if you want a certain player, heck, go get the guy.. KC did that w/Mahomes and no one is NOW saying that they gave up too much !!

IF Lynch is smart and like Lance, then trade up and give up picks or even player(s) because if this works out, you'd have your job forever... but if you try to be the cool team that sits and believe that a Joe or a Tom would find their way to the team, you may not be there to see that anyhow..

so, if the BENGALS somehow end up w/the 1st overall pick and want to trade it, I would offer multiple picks with Bosa or Kittle or Warner to complete it..

I will and find players like them again, but TREVOR, you'll have to wait for this kid name ARCH to see another GENERATIONAL PLAYER..
This isn't the 1st time you came up with the nonsense of trading either Bosa, Warner or Kittle. I'm not gonna argue it since it's beyond ridiculous


Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
Originally posted by 9moon:
Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
Originally posted by 9moon:
Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
I'm leaning towards having a rookie qb giving us cap space so we can resign key guys and sign a guy or 2 for depth or even a starting caliber oline man who won't break the bank. I think when healthy this squad is the class of the NFC and I don't see why a guy like Wilson or Lance couldn't do the things Jimmy did with Kyle making things easier for them until they grasp the system as they go. Plus those guys can stretch a d over the top, I don't know if it's ever been done but this roster is set up for a rookie qb to win a SB IF it's the right guy.

ROOKIE QB, you best target the guy you really want tho... if he's not there, then don't be forcing no CJ issue like !!

That's what I meant, for me it's either Wilson or Lance or nothing at all. I'm not settling with Jones or Trask, Lynch has to be aggressive in getting one of them

but the problem w/that is, we have a coach or even a GM (just like LOTS of fans here) that would not ROLL THE DICE and trade a bunch of picks in order to land a QB..

Making a big deal (trades), we've seen both sides of the coin... remember how Dallas built their team in the Hershel Walker trade.. and remember how the Rams couldn't build a winner after trading Eric Dickerson..

Drafting is all about getting lucky anyway.. if you want a certain player, heck, go get the guy.. KC did that w/Mahomes and no one is NOW saying that they gave up too much !!

IF Lynch is smart and like Lance, then trade up and give up picks or even player(s) because if this works out, you'd have your job forever... but if you try to be the cool team that sits and believe that a Joe or a Tom would find their way to the team, you may not be there to see that anyhow..

so, if the BENGALS somehow end up w/the 1st overall pick and want to trade it, I would offer multiple picks with Bosa or Kittle or Warner to complete it..

I will and find players like them again, but TREVOR, you'll have to wait for this kid name ARCH to see another GENERATIONAL PLAYER..
This isn't the 1st time you came up with the nonsense of trading either Bosa, Warner or Kittle. I'm not gonna argue it since it's beyond ridiculous

YOU still don't get it... IF Cincy gets the 1st overall pick and is willing to trade to us at THAT cost, will you pull the trigger to land TREVOR !!??

It's a yes or no question to see how much you support the idea of GETTING THE QB THAT YOU WANT..

The fact he says it's a ridiculous trade tells you what the answer is.

And he's right, it's a ridiculous trade.

OK THEN, don't expect to land one of the TOP QBs by only giving up a 1st rounder or trading places...

I'm not even expecting us to go QB let alone a "top one".

And I've already said to you 4-5 times that the Eagles deal is what I'd be comfortable with to move up to whatever spot if our guy is there. They did more than just give or trade first rounders.

In any case it all depends on where we draft, who drafts above us, and who Kyle/Lynch like. That's even if we draft QB to begin with.
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