Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

how can you get better at low % passes if the end result is a low%.

if throwing deep more were true than every team would be throwing bombs and completing them which would change the %

other Teams want to be like our offense, but fans hate ours.. i don't get it

That's a poor argument. They will always be lower than the 5-10 yrd passes that Jimmy throws but you can improve your % by throwing more. I honestly don't know how much they practice 35-40 yards passes. I suspect it's not a lot since it's not a major part of their offense. Anyone can see that when Jimmy throws that deep his accuracy drops off more than some of the QBs around the league. I cited that throw to Kittle because he really dropped it in the bucket. It wasn't a completion to a wide open Sanders who had time to slow up and even come back for the ball. He completes one occasionally but I'm not comfortable that he can do it in crunch time when he's forced to throw long. Fortunately, this team stays close in most games so those big throws to win games aren't needed. But sometimes they are. It can come back to bite us again.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by Stanley:

BINGO
If people evaluated other teams as critically as they do the 9ers, they'd be far less triggered.

Stats HAVE "evaluated" other teams. The conclusion is we're still at the bottom of the league (31st/32nd) in forward passing distance.

Did you see the Miami game where they were all up in our faces with the short stuff? Being last in the league in this department doesnt concern you about our chances at a championship if we're to stay at the very bottom of the league?

You've brought up the Miami game several times. Chris Collinsworth even pointed out how Jimmy was lifting his right foot off the ground on those throws. The dude was 3 weeks off a high ankle that usually is 4-8 weeks recovery. I'm fine with you using any other game, but Miami? C'mon.

I haven't seen a credible source anywhere that said, "that Miami game, yep that's the real Jimmy Garoppolo."

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
This is correct. Flashy plays > wins to some people. Go root for Matt Ryan, Matt stafford, kyler murray, carson wentz. How many superbowls between them??

There isnt a single person on this board who would pick flashy plays over wins. Try harder.

Lies.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by genus49:
Once again why are people so hard up about air yards?

I like your earlier post, the plan makes sense. Groom a QB to either replace him or push him. Worst best case scenario is Jimmy shows himself to be a stud and we trade the youngster(much how NE has done for years with Brady not going anywhere)

But the air yards thing is silly to me. Who cares? They're not worth any more. Are we so insecure as fans that we need our QB to have the biggest air yard out there? Let the analytics geeks go crazy.

As long as we're winning the way we have the last two games I honestly couldn't care if Jimmy finished the season with under 200 air yards and everyone claimed he was a system QB who was only good cuz of Kyle.

But I do think our air yards will pick up when the OL shows itself to maintain pass pro beyond 2 seconds and our guys can consistently get open down the field and the timing with Jimmy is on point.

Once again genus you're missing the pt of the post and who I was replying too (what he was asking for).

That data also shows what this passing offense is and has been with Jimmy. If you're fine with the overall passing offense even with all the cash and draft capital invested into it...fine. Might be others in here that aren't. Doesn't make either side wrong just different expectations.

Just cuz i'm quoting you doesn't mean I'm specifically talking about your post or your thoughts unless I say so specifically.

I'm sure you know other people love to throw around the air yard stats like it somehow demeans the QB. We certainly see Seahawk fans fap furiously to air yard numbers like it's the #1 metric for great QBs. And don't get me wrong Russell is playing some of the best football of his career and really anyones career so they should be excited about him but the reality is...air yards, yac yards it simply doesn't matter as long as you get into the endzone.

All that stuff does is let fans claim their guy is the best. And yeah, we've had our share of those guys and it's a great thing to have when you can say 49ers have the best guy at his position or one of the best ever. Question is do you want a Dan Marino or Eli Manning?

It's a stupid question when you just say it like that...but if you add in 0 SBs vs 2 SBs? Nobody will ever say Eli was one of the best QBs in the game. Dan Marino is certainly in that conversation.

And before you or anyone else runs in here claiming Jimmy hasn't won a SB for us, that's not the point. The point is IF we're winning then who cares about the ability to claim your guy is the best?

Personally I'd rather just point to the rings versus having the best guy at his position. Both would of course be fantastic and often times like Montana/Brady you get the combo but my point is as long as we're winning, I don't need to have our guy be considered the best. If other fans want to call him a game manager and system QB...as long as we're getting Ws, I'll just fine with it.

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
This is correct. Flashy plays > wins to some people. Go root for Matt Ryan, Matt stafford, kyler murray, carson wentz. How many superbowls between them??

There isnt a single person on this board who would pick flashy plays over wins. Try harder.

Lies.

No. Its a stupid argument that people use against anyone who is critical of parts of Jimmys game. We are all 49er fans. The idea that people would want to see a few homerun throws at the expense of winning is laughable and idiotic. We all want the same thing. #6.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
This is correct. Flashy plays > wins to some people. Go root for Matt Ryan, Matt stafford, kyler murray, carson wentz. How many superbowls between them??

There isnt a single person on this board who would pick flashy plays over wins. Try harder.

Lies.

No. Its a stupid argument that people use against anyone who is critical of parts of Jimmys game. We are all 49er fans. The idea that people would want to see a few homerun throws at the expense of winning is laughable and idiotic.

Just because you believe something is laughable and idiotic doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

how can you get better at low % passes if the end result is a low%.

if throwing deep more were true than every team would be throwing bombs and completing them which would change the %

other Teams want to be like our offense, but fans hate ours.. i don't get it

That's a poor argument. They will always be lower than the 5-10 yrd passes that Jimmy throws but you can improve your % by throwing more. I honestly don't know how much they practice 35-40 yards passes. I suspect it's not a lot since it's not a major part of their offense. Anyone can see that when Jimmy throws that deep his accuracy drops off more than some of the QBs around the league. I cited that throw to Kittle because he really dropped it in the bucket. It wasn't a completion to a wide open Sanders who had time to slow up and even come back for the ball. He completes one occasionally but I'm not comfortable that he can do it in crunch time when he's forced to throw long. Fortunately, this team stays close in most games so those big throws to win games aren't needed. But sometimes they are. It can come back to bite us again.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by Stanley:

BINGO
If people evaluated other teams as critically as they do the 9ers, they'd be far less triggered.

Stats HAVE "evaluated" other teams. The conclusion is we're still at the bottom of the league (31st/32nd) in forward passing distance.

Did you see the Miami game where they were all up in our faces with the short stuff? Being last in the league in this department doesnt concern you about our chances at a championship if we're to stay at the very bottom of the league?

You've brought up the Miami game several times. Chris Collinsworth even pointed out how Jimmy was lifting his right foot off the ground on those throws. The dude was 3 weeks off a high ankle that usually is 4-8 weeks recovery. I'm fine with you using any other game, but Miami? C'mon.

I haven't seen a credible source anywhere that said, "that Miami game, yep that's the real Jimmy Garoppolo."

Agree. That would have been like saying the Way Alex Smith threw with a completely separated shoulder that had come off the bone under Mike Nolan was the real way Alex threw.

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
This is correct. Flashy plays > wins to some people. Go root for Matt Ryan, Matt stafford, kyler murray, carson wentz. How many superbowls between them??

There isnt a single person on this board who would pick flashy plays over wins. Try harder.

Lies.

No. Its a stupid argument that people use against anyone who is critical of parts of Jimmys game. We are all 49er fans. The idea that people would want to see a few homerun throws at the expense of winning is laughable and idiotic.

Just because you believe something is laughable and idiotic doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Its not. You guys are interpreting it that way. No one would be good with losing if Jimmy threw a few bombs a game. I cant even fathom how anyone could possibly believe that.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

This is correct. Flashy plays > wins to some people. Go root for Matt Ryan, Matt stafford, kyler murray, carson wentz. How many superbowls between them??

There isnt a single person on this board who would pick flashy plays over wins. Try harder.

Lies.

No. Its a stupid argument that people use against anyone who is critical of parts of Jimmys game. We are all 49er fans. The idea that people would want to see a few homerun throws at the expense of winning is laughable and idiotic.

Just because you believe something is laughable and idiotic doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Its not. You guys are interpreting it that way. No one would be good with losing if Jimmy threw a few bombs a game. I cant even fathom how anyone could possibly believe that.

Yeah, I mean, put it this way. Playoffs on the line in week 17. Your options are 500 passing yards with tons of deep touchdowns but lose in a shootout, or win with shorter efficient passing. No deep throws over 20 yards.

The choice is pretty obvious.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
This is correct. Flashy plays > wins to some people. Go root for Matt Ryan, Matt stafford, kyler murray, carson wentz. How many superbowls between them??

There isnt a single person on this board who would pick flashy plays over wins. Try harder.

Lies.

No. Its a stupid argument that people use against anyone who is critical of parts of Jimmys game. We are all 49er fans. The idea that people would want to see a few homerun throws at the expense of winning is laughable and idiotic.

Just because you believe something is laughable and idiotic doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Its not. You guys are interpreting it that way. No one would be good with losing if Jimmy threw a few bombs a game. I cant even fathom how anyone could possibly believe that.

Yeah, I mean, put it this way. Playoffs on the line in week 17. Your options are 500 passing yards with tons of deep touchdowns but lose in a shootout, or win with shorter efficient passing. No deep throws over 20 yards.

The choice is pretty obvious.

Not a single person on this board would choose 500 passing yards. Its an illogical argument that people are running with as fact. Its absolutely idiotic.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
This is correct. Flashy plays > wins to some people. Go root for Matt Ryan, Matt stafford, kyler murray, carson wentz. How many superbowls between them??

There isnt a single person on this board who would pick flashy plays over wins. Try harder.

Lies.

No. Its a stupid argument that people use against anyone who is critical of parts of Jimmys game. We are all 49er fans. The idea that people would want to see a few homerun throws at the expense of winning is laughable and idiotic.

Just because you believe something is laughable and idiotic doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Its not. You guys are interpreting it that way. No one would be good with losing if Jimmy threw a few bombs a game. I cant even fathom how anyone could possibly believe that.

Yeah, I mean, put it this way. Playoffs on the line in week 17. Your options are 500 passing yards with tons of deep touchdowns but lose in a shootout, or win with shorter efficient passing. No deep throws over 20 yards.

The choice is pretty obvious.

Not a single person on this board would choose 500 passing yards. Its an illogical argument that people are running with as fact. Its absolutely idiotic.

I can make an argument for preferring big bombs in a loss over watching a pop warner offense in a win. In the end, it's about being entertained. Whether the 49ers win or lose has zero impact in my real life.

Originally posted by genus49:

Just cuz i'm quoting you doesn't mean I'm specifically talking about your post or your thoughts unless I say so specifically.

I'm sure you know other people love to throw around the air yard stats like it somehow demeans the QB. We certainly see Seahawk fans fap furiously to air yard numbers like it's the #1 metric for great QBs. And don't get me wrong Russell is playing some of the best football of his career and really anyones career so they should be excited about him but the reality is...air yards, yac yards it simply doesn't matter as long as you get into the endzone.

All that stuff does is let fans claim their guy is the best. And yeah, we've had our share of those guys and it's a great thing to have when you can say 49ers have the best guy at his position or one of the best ever. Question is do you want a Dan Marino or Eli Manning?

It's a stupid question when you just say it like that...but if you add in 0 SBs vs 2 SBs? Nobody will ever say Eli was one of the best QBs in the game. Dan Marino is certainly in that conversation.

And before you or anyone else runs in here claiming Jimmy hasn't won a SB for us, that's not the point. The point is IF we're winning then who cares about the ability to claim your guy is the best?

Personally I'd rather just point to the rings versus having the best guy at his position. Both would of course be fantastic and often times like Montana/Brady you get the combo but my point is as long as we're winning, I don't need to have our guy be considered the best. If other fans want to call him a game manager and system QB...as long as we're getting Ws, I'll just fine with it.

Hard for me to not think you're talking about me, when you're commenting on my post. Sorry if I interpreted it differently.

Like I stated, I don't think people are interpreting what air yards actually means...it's not about chucking it 50 yards all game. It's simply provides data on how much of a passers yards come from his actual pass vs the playmaker making plays and eating up yards (YAC).

It gives insight into the passing game as a whole, along with the scheme. The data is staying the following for (2019/2020)

-he's attempting shorter passes more than just about any QB in the NFL.
-He's throwing short of the 1st down marker at one of the highest rates in football.
-He's one of the highest ranked QBs that's relied on YAC

Anyone who watches games, can probably agree with those statements.

All I want is SB rings too. Do you think that passing game plan is gonna make it happen? Do you think that data overall is what Kyle wants from his passing game? Do you think the amount of cash and draft capital invested into the passing game is on par for those numbers?

If so cool. I think there could be a little more... If they crush it during this stretch of crazy hard game with that same philosophy, then sign me up for giving Jimmy an extension.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

This is correct. Flashy plays > wins to some people. Go root for Matt Ryan, Matt stafford, kyler murray, carson wentz. How many superbowls between them??

There isnt a single person on this board who would pick flashy plays over wins. Try harder.

Lies.

No. Its a stupid argument that people use against anyone who is critical of parts of Jimmys game. We are all 49er fans. The idea that people would want to see a few homerun throws at the expense of winning is laughable and idiotic.

Just because you believe something is laughable and idiotic doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Its not. You guys are interpreting it that way. No one would be good with losing if Jimmy threw a few bombs a game. I cant even fathom how anyone could possibly believe that.

Yeah, I mean, put it this way. Playoffs on the line in week 17. Your options are 500 passing yards with tons of deep touchdowns but lose in a shootout, or win with shorter efficient passing. No deep throws over 20 yards.

The choice is pretty obvious.

Not a single person on this board would choose 500 passing yards. Its an illogical argument that people are running with as fact. Its absolutely idiotic.

Right, which would be all fine and good of not the morning after a blowout win people were saying, "would still like to see Jimmy Air it out more deep down the sideline."

So, obviously winning in blowout fashion isn't enough.

If it were, all complaints should be shelved for a week and we all sit in the mutual admiration society happily enjoying handing Bill Belichick his worst loss in Foxborough. Ever.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by genus49:
Just cuz i'm quoting you doesn't mean I'm specifically talking about your post or your thoughts unless I say so specifically.

I'm sure you know other people love to throw around the air yard stats like it somehow demeans the QB. We certainly see Seahawk fans fap furiously to air yard numbers like it's the #1 metric for great QBs. And don't get me wrong Russell is playing some of the best football of his career and really anyones career so they should be excited about him but the reality is...air yards, yac yards it simply doesn't matter as long as you get into the endzone.

All that stuff does is let fans claim their guy is the best. And yeah, we've had our share of those guys and it's a great thing to have when you can say 49ers have the best guy at his position or one of the best ever. Question is do you want a Dan Marino or Eli Manning?

It's a stupid question when you just say it like that...but if you add in 0 SBs vs 2 SBs? Nobody will ever say Eli was one of the best QBs in the game. Dan Marino is certainly in that conversation.

And before you or anyone else runs in here claiming Jimmy hasn't won a SB for us, that's not the point. The point is IF we're winning then who cares about the ability to claim your guy is the best?

Personally I'd rather just point to the rings versus having the best guy at his position. Both would of course be fantastic and often times like Montana/Brady you get the combo but my point is as long as we're winning, I don't need to have our guy be considered the best. If other fans want to call him a game manager and system QB...as long as we're getting Ws, I'll just fine with it.

Hard for me to not think you're talking about me, when you're commenting on my post. Sorry if I interpreted it differently.

Like I stated, I don't think people are interpreting what air yards actually means...it's not about chucking it 50 yards all game. It's simply provides data on how much of a passers yards come from his actual pass vs the playmaker making plays and eating up yards (YAC).

It gives insight into the passing game as a whole, along with the scheme. The data is staying the following for (2019/2020)

-he's attempting shorter passes more than just about any QB in the NFL.
-He's throwing short of the 1st down marker at one of the highest rates in football.
-He's one of the highest ranked QBs that's relied on YAC

Anyone who watches games, can probably agree with those statements.

All I want is SB rings too. Do you think that passing game plan is gonna make it happen? Do you think that data overall is what Kyle wants from his passing game? Do you think the amount of cash and draft capital invested into the passing game is on par for those numbers?

If so cool. I think there could be a little more... If they crush it during this stretch of crazy hard game with that same philosophy, then sign me up for giving Jimmy an extension.

I don't know about others but I'm quite aware of what air yards mean which is why i typically say air yards or yac yards...i don't give a flying fart.

Do we even know who keeps track of this stuff? Cuz I'd love to see the full list.

To me it easily makes sense why we're low in air yards and like I said a few times in here it's not just to protect Jimmy. It's because it also protects our OL and also utilizes the strengths of our pass catchers which is YAC.

Johnydel addressed it as well as did some others - our receiving core for the most part is still inexperienced. While talented the route running isn't there yet.

It's pretty logical to me with all the things involved we are having success going the low air yard option.

1. Jimmy G can use his quick release to get the ball out quickly and there's less for him to worry about(quick decisions help)
2. Our OL doesn't have to block as long. Ball comes out quick and even if they're beaten the ball is hopefully out
3. Defense much harder to play these days and tackling is sloppy all over for the most part - get the ball to your YAC kings and let them work
4. Higher % throws vs low % throws

Considering the roster we had going into this season certainly points me towards thinking we're actually closer to Kyle's offense of preference than one that has a lot more down the field throws.

Think about it - Deebo, Hurd, Kittle, Jordan Reed, Jennings all big bruisers known for their YAC. Even Aiyuk who is likely our best deep threat guy these days made his money at ASU with his YAC.

Don't forget I'm the guy who desperately wanted Ruggs in the draft...so I was all for opening things up but if you remember from those conversations I said it wasn't just his ability to get the ball deep but his ability to threaten teams with it. Aiyuk isn't on that level but hopefully he turns into a guy who at least makes teams worry about it. We don't need Jimmy to throw it deep at the same clip as Wilson/Mahomes to get the offense to scare teams all over the field.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Right, which would be all fine and good of not the morning after a blowout win people were saying, "would still like to see Jimmy Air it out more deep down the sideline."

So, obviously winning in blowout fashion isn't enough.

If it were, all complaints should be shelved for a week and we all sit in the mutual admiration society happily enjoying handing Bill Belichick his worst loss in Foxborough. Ever.

Who was saying that? I know I didn't...imo SF played good sound football, but NE looked like hot trash. That's not even close to the same team that it's been under BB.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
This is correct. Flashy plays > wins to some people. Go root for Matt Ryan, Matt stafford, kyler murray, carson wentz. How many superbowls between them??

There isnt a single person on this board who would pick flashy plays over wins. Try harder.

Lies.

No. Its a stupid argument that people use against anyone who is critical of parts of Jimmys game. We are all 49er fans. The idea that people would want to see a few homerun throws at the expense of winning is laughable and idiotic.

Just because you believe something is laughable and idiotic doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Its not. You guys are interpreting it that way. No one would be good with losing if Jimmy threw a few bombs a game. I cant even fathom how anyone could possibly believe that.

Yeah, I mean, put it this way. Playoffs on the line in week 17. Your options are 500 passing yards with tons of deep touchdowns but lose in a shootout, or win with shorter efficient passing. No deep throws over 20 yards.

The choice is pretty obvious.

Not a single person on this board would choose 500 passing yards. Its an illogical argument that people are running with as fact. Its absolutely idiotic.

I can make an argument for preferring big bombs in a loss over watching a pop warner offense in a win. In the end, it's about being entertained. Whether the 49ers win or lose has zero impact in my real life.

Sure you can.

Problem here is you're talking about average fans that simply watch on tv and go to the games.

A bunch of guys committed to coming to message boards about their team every day certainly dont fit in the demographic you're talking about.

The fans that come on here want to be entertained with another Superbowl run and a chance at winning it if a more dynamic offense takes the field against us. This is why they're concerned early on in the season with trends. Painting it as something else is trying to sidestep what's obvious.