Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

I still don't understand the fans that think Jimmy is going to keep getting better. He looks about the same to me as he did in 2017. After 31 starts, 2 playoffs and a SB he is who he is. Players don't just get better because they play more games. Eventually everyone reaches their peak and he may have reached his.

Look at what he does really well. He's got a very quick release and is very accurate in the short passing game that Kyle runs. After 3 years , he knows Kyle's offense or at least he should. Mullens has had far less reps and seems to know it fine. So I don't see a lot of room for improvement in the things he does well.

Now look at what he doesn't do well. He doesn't have a really strong arm and loses accuracy on deep throws. He doesn't seem to be able to drive the ball on deep sideline throws. He may be able to improve these a little with better mechanics but honestly after 7 years in the league, if he hasn't fixed those things I don't see a big chance that he will.

He doesn't run well and is not going to suddenly get faster. That keeps him from being able to keep plays alive by scrambling and removes the threat of breaking a big run on a 3rd and long.

He will likely learn to read defenses a little better and he should get more comfortable with his receivers. Those things will help a little. Players just don't continually improve. Many actually get worse. The Jimmy we have now may be all he ever will be. That's not bad and certainly enough to win with, but I just don't see this big window for improvement.

Does Russel Wilson look the same now as he did after 32 starts in the league? Does he even look the same as 4 years ago after 6 years of starting? Did Tom Brady look the same in 07 and 08 as he did after he won his 2nd SB?

Did Montana look the same in 88 and 89 as he did in 81? Did Young look the same in 94 as he did in 91(with years in the league)? No. They all improved. To say he is who he is and he's not going to improve is a preposterous notion.

A player can improve simply by adding more talent around them(look at Brady after Moss came on). You can't tell me that with Emanuel Sanders and a rookie Deebo Samuel that Jimmy had elite receivers by any stretch. He had good, not great.

I'm excited to see him with Kittle and a more seasoned Samuel along with an explosive rookie.

Alex Smith 2011 was not the same as Alex Smith 2015, 16 or 17.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I still don't understand the fans that think Jimmy is going to keep getting better. He looks about the same to me as he did in 2017. After 31 starts, 2 playoffs and a SB he is who he is. Players don't just get better because they play more games. Eventually everyone reaches their peak and he may have reached his.

Look at what he does really well. He's got a very quick release and is very accurate in the short passing game that Kyle runs. After 3 years , he knows Kyle's offense or at least he should. Mullens has had far less reps and seems to know it fine. So I don't see a lot of room for improvement in the things he does well.

Now look at what he doesn't do well. He doesn't have a really strong arm and loses accuracy on deep throws. He doesn't seem to be able to drive the ball on deep sideline throws. He may be able to improve these a little with better mechanics but honestly after 7 years in the league, if he hasn't fixed those things I don't see a big chance that he will.

He doesn't run well and is not going to suddenly get faster. That keeps him from being able to keep plays alive by scrambling and removes the threat of breaking a big run on a 3rd and long.

He will likely learn to read defenses a little better and he should get more comfortable with his receivers. Those things will help a little. Players just don't continually improve. Many actually get worse. The Jimmy we have now may be all he ever will be. That's not bad and certainly enough to win with, but I just don't see this big window for improvement.

Sounds like a OL issue

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Does Russel Wilson look the same now as he did after 32 starts in the league? Does he even look the same as 4 years ago after 6 years of starting? Did Tom Brady look the same in 07 and 08 as he did after he won his 2nd SB?

Did Montana look the same in 88 and 89 as he did in 81? Did Young look the same in 94 as he did in 91(with years in the league)? No. They all improved. To say he is who he is and he's not going to improve is a preposterous notion.

A player can improve simply by adding more talent around them(look at Brady after Moss came on). You can't tell me that with Emanuel Sanders and a rookie Deebo Samuel that Jimmy had elite receivers by any stretch. He had good, not great.

I'm excited to see him with Kittle and a more seasoned Samuel along with an explosive rookie.

Alex Smith 2011 was not the same as Alex Smith 2015, 16 or 17.

Wilson and Young both had physical skills that Jimmy can only dream of. They had to adjust to the pro game and learn the defenses. In Young's case they had to teach him to pass first and run second. Montana had all the intangibles but it took Walsh to work on his footwork which took 2 years.

Alex Smith might be the best comparison of the players you listed but even Alex had better physical skills. Definitely faster. Everyone knows that the biggest thing that held Alex back was a different HC and /or OC every year for the first 5 or 6 years that he was in the league. He also was on a far worse team from top to bottom. Jimmy has played under one of the greatest HCs of all time and now under one of the best young HCs. As smrt s Kyle is at designing plays he can't make Jimmy faster of make his arm measurably stronger.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Wilson and Young both had physical skills that Jimmy can only dream of. They had to adjust to the pro game and learn the defenses. In Young's case they had to teach him to pass first and run second. Montana had all the intangibles but it took Walsh to work on his footwork which took 2 years.

Alex Smith might be the best comparison of the players you listed but even Alex had better physical skills. Definitely faster. Everyone knows that the biggest thing that held Alex back was a different HC and /or OC every year for the first 5 or 6 years that he was in the league. He also was on a far worse team from top to bottom. Jimmy has played under one of the greatest HCs of all time and now under one of the best young HCs. As smrt s Kyle is at designing plays he can't make Jimmy faster of make his arm measurably stronger.

So he can still be like Brady then? Arm strength, speed, etc.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Does Russel Wilson look the same now as he did after 32 starts in the league? Does he even look the same as 4 years ago after 6 years of starting? Did Tom Brady look the same in 07 and 08 as he did after he won his 2nd SB?

Did Montana look the same in 88 and 89 as he did in 81? Did Young look the same in 94 as he did in 91(with years in the league)? No. They all improved. To say he is who he is and he's not going to improve is a preposterous notion.

A player can improve simply by adding more talent around them(look at Brady after Moss came on). You can't tell me that with Emanuel Sanders and a rookie Deebo Samuel that Jimmy had elite receivers by any stretch. He had good, not great.

I'm excited to see him with Kittle and a more seasoned Samuel along with an explosive rookie.

Alex Smith 2011 was not the same as Alex Smith 2015, 16 or 17.

Wilson and Young both had physical skills that Jimmy can only dream of. They had to adjust to the pro game and learn the defenses. In Young's case they had to teach him to pass first and run second. Montana had all the intangibles but it took Walsh to work on his footwork which took 2 years.

Alex Smith might be the best comparison of the players you listed but even Alex had better physical skills. Definitely faster. Everyone knows that the biggest thing that held Alex back was a different HC and /or OC every year for the first 5 or 6 years that he was in the league. He also was on a far worse team from top to bottom. Jimmy has played under one of the greatest HCs of all time and now under one of the best young HCs. As smrt s Kyle is at designing plays he can't make Jimmy faster of make his arm measurably stronger.

See I am not the only one who picks up that you always have a negative sting in your tail when you post about Jimmy. You focus on the bad things too much and exaggerate them rather then keep it in balance. It is called catastrophizing from nit picking.

Originally posted by Stanley:
So he can still be like Brady then? Arm strength, speed, etc.

I think Brady's arm was better at least when he was younger. Speed wise they are even. The difference is Brady played in the weakest division in the NFL and Jimmy plays in one of the strongest. Brady didn't need speed in that division and with the O line he had. NE had one of the best O line coaches in the league.

Back to my original point. The idea that QBs just keep getting better is nonsense. Some fans on this forum have said they think Jimmy has regressed and that he isn't as aggressive. I don't know if I agree with that but i don't see a lot of improvement from those first 5 games with the Niners. There are a lot of QBs that don't improve after year 2 or 3. Cam Newton, Matt Ryan, Stafford, Rivers and on and on. They showed us who they were after a couple of years in the league. Sometimes you just are who you are. in Jimmy's case that's not bad but not elite or even great.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Does Russel Wilson look the same now as he did after 32 starts in the league? Does he even look the same as 4 years ago after 6 years of starting? Did Tom Brady look the same in 07 and 08 as he did after he won his 2nd SB?

Did Montana look the same in 88 and 89 as he did in 81? Did Young look the same in 94 as he did in 91(with years in the league)? No. They all improved. To say he is who he is and he's not going to improve is a preposterous notion.

A player can improve simply by adding more talent around them(look at Brady after Moss came on). You can't tell me that with Emanuel Sanders and a rookie Deebo Samuel that Jimmy had elite receivers by any stretch. He had good, not great.

I'm excited to see him with Kittle and a more seasoned Samuel along with an explosive rookie.

Alex Smith 2011 was not the same as Alex Smith 2015, 16 or 17.

Wilson and Young both had physical skills that Jimmy can only dream of. They had to adjust to the pro game and learn the defenses. In Young's case they had to teach him to pass first and run second. Montana had all the intangibles but it took Walsh to work on his footwork which took 2 years.

Alex Smith might be the best comparison of the players you listed but even Alex had better physical skills. Definitely faster. Everyone knows that the biggest thing that held Alex back was a different HC and /or OC every year for the first 5 or 6 years that he was in the league. He also was on a far worse team from top to bottom. Jimmy has played under one of the greatest HCs of all time and now under one of the best young HCs. As smrt s Kyle is at designing plays he can't make Jimmy faster of make his arm measurably stronger.

Ok..... you're telling me that Wilson and Young's ability to run makes them better passers than Jimmy? Ok...
It took Montana only 2 years? Ok, go look at the throws he made in 8i and 89 and tell me he's the same. You can't tell me that he didn't improve or that getting Rice didn't help.

Alex may be faster than Jimmy but he doesn't have the arm talent. If you can't see that, it's just bias.

Intangibles? Like, Jimmy having four, 4th qtr comebacks last year?

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by Stanley:

So he can still be like Brady then? Arm strength, speed, etc.

I think Brady's arm was better at least when he was younger. Speed wise they are even. The difference is Brady played in the weakest division in the NFL and Jimmy plays in one of the strongest. Brady didn't need speed in that division and with the O line he had. NE had one of the best O line coaches in the league.

Back to my original point. The idea that QBs just keep getting better is nonsense. Some fans on this forum have said they think Jimmy has regressed and that he isn't as aggressive. I don't know if I agree with that but i don't see a lot of improvement from those first 5 games with the Niners. There are a lot of QBs that don't improve after year 2 or 3. Cam Newton, Matt Ryan, Stafford, Rivers and on and on. They showed us who they were after a couple of years in the league. Sometimes you just are who you are. in Jimmy's case that's not bad but not elite or even great.

No, it's not preposterous to believe that a guys first entire season will be his ceiling. That's ridiculous.

Just look at his numbers pre and post Sanders last year. For real, im not going to post them, if you're going to make statements like that, back it up with analysis.

Originally posted by Goatie:
See I am not the only one who picks up that you always have a negative sting in your tail when you post about Jimmy. You focus on the bad things too much and exaggerate them rather then keep it in balance. It is called catastrophizing from nit picking.

I clearly stated his strong points. Short pass accuracy and quick release. Here's another one. Very competitive and resilient. He responds well when he throws an INT or fumbles. Those are great things to have.

If you think he's going to get faster and develop a rocket arm then fine. I don'y. With his physical skills I just think he mat be at or near his ceiling. That said, I believe he's our best option for now and I don't want to see him replaced by Mullens. As for the future, the jury is still out.

CATCHMASTER! You better leave my Jimmy Geezus alone... or the only thing you're gonna be catching are these



I just had too... but for real though...

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Ok..... you're telling me that Wilson and Young's ability to run makes them better passers than Jimmy? Ok...
It took Montana only 2 years? Ok, go look at the throws he made in 8i and 89 and tell me he's the same. You can't tell me that he didn't improve or that getting Rice didn't help.

Alex may be faster than Jimmy but he doesn't have the arm talent. If you can't see that, it's just bias.

Intangibles? Like, Jimmy having four, 4th qtr comebacks last year?

Wilson and Young had arm talent. They just needed some coaching to keep them from using their feet first. Once they developed that then thye became dangerous because they still had that threat that jimmy never will. As far as Alex goes, I give the edge to Jimmy but it's not that different. The big problem with Alex was his first 5 or 6 years in the league where he took a beating and had terrible coaching. How do you think Jimmy or many other QBs woyld have done under those circumstances. Jimmy might have been sacked 40 time a year with those teams.

Montana was never a great QB because of his arm strength. He won by knowing where the open guy was and being able to lift the team when they were down. Those 4th quarter comebacks were fine but 2 ended with a 30+ yard FG. The one against Arizona was impressive but they had 10 minutes to comeback against Pittsburg. Comebacks are a little over rated. There are over 150 players that have more than Jimmy and 20 are still active. When he takes the team 92 yards with 3 minutes to play in the SB and throws the winning TD pass I'll be more impressed.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Does Russel Wilson look the same now as he did after 32 starts in the league? Does he even look the same as 4 years ago after 6 years of starting? Did Tom Brady look the same in 07 and 08 as he did after he won his 2nd SB?

Did Montana look the same in 88 and 89 as he did in 81? Did Young look the same in 94 as he did in 91(with years in the league)? No. They all improved. To say he is who he is and he's not going to improve is a preposterous notion.

A player can improve simply by adding more talent around them(look at Brady after Moss came on). You can't tell me that with Emanuel Sanders and a rookie Deebo Samuel that Jimmy had elite receivers by any stretch. He had good, not great.

I'm excited to see him with Kittle and a more seasoned Samuel along with an explosive rookie.

Alex Smith 2011 was not the same as Alex Smith 2015, 16 or 17.

Good post.

I'd like to see him hit more sideline routes rather than short over the middle and dump offs. Whatever he needs to do he needs to get better. Let's go.

Originally posted by braap49er:
CATCHMASTER! You better leave my Jimmy Geezus alone... or the only thing you're gonna be catching are these

I just had too... but for real though...

I know Jimmy has lots of fans and protectors. I only point out what I see as areas that need improvement that he may not be able to improve. You can find QBs that improved as they got more experience but they all peaked at some point. For some it was year 2 or 3. Some take a little longer. I get tired of the narrative that Jimmy has only had one full season like all the other time in the league means nothing. It's not the same as taking a 20 or 21 year old rookie from college and teaching him to read NFL defenses. He has all the knowledge he needs. He has nearly 2 full years of starts. It would be 3 if he could stay healthy which is becoming an issue.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by braap49er:
CATCHMASTER! You better leave my Jimmy Geezus alone... or the only thing you're gonna be catching are these

I just had too... but for real though...

I know Jimmy has lots of fans and protectors. I only point out what I see as areas that need improvement that he may not be able to improve. You can find QBs that improved as they got more experience but they all peaked at some point. For some it was year 2 or 3. Some take a little longer. I get tired of the narrative that Jimmy has only had one full season like all the other time in the league means nothing. It's not the same as taking a 20 or 21 year old rookie from college and teaching him to read NFL defenses. He has all the knowledge he needs. He has nearly 2 full years of starts. It would be 3 if he could stay healthy which is becoming an issue.

lol, so salty for some reason.

Lets get an OL where Jimmy doesn't have to escape pressure up the middle where he can step into his throws. then judge off that.

As for injuries, this current injury was due to a greg williams bounty on Jimmy's leg