Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

And for the record it appears PFF records hits of only a certain force/level. NFL must record a hit each time a QB is touched. Not sure which way is better. Technically a hit is a hit but when a QB gets brushed after the ball is out is that really a knock on the OL?

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by genus49:

And for the record it appears PFF records hits of only a certain force/level. NFL must record a hit each time a QB is touched. Not sure which way is better. Technically a hit is a hit but when a QB gets brushed after the ball is out is that really a knock on the OL?

Since we don't know how the NFL records a hit and I have no faith in PFF, I'd say let's not disparage the NFL since PFF has proven to be pretty bad at rankings.

Once again....it's not a personal opinion on a QB getting hit.

The question is what each site records as a hit. NFL has a much larger for hits given up by us than PFF. I'd like to know where the middle ground is and analyze that in a per week basis to see how much impact each QB played into it.

Say what you will about PFF but they can fudge their hit criteria only so much and if you go back and look at those numbers with Jimmy at QB they were much better with the worst game hit wise per their standards at least being the Vikings game where we lost our starting RG and backup RG.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Not in pass protection which is what is relevant in the QB thread.
No one is talking about elite, we are talking about going from the bottom of the barrel to below average.

Per football outsiders SF was the 32nd ranked pass protecting offensive line in 2016 and 2015. They were also the 32nd ranked in run-blocking both yrs.

2018 they were the 10th ranked run-blocking OL and 22nd pass-blocking team.

SO no they were not better at PP or RB before lynch and Co. got here.

Indy Colts
Luck was getting beat up year after year, they fix the line and now what are they for pass protection and sacks? How often is Luck getting hit now?

Fixing the line into a top 10 unit in pass protection should have been priority 1A/1/B the day Kyle and Lynch took over.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by GarnerValleyFan:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by genus49:

Elite talent at QB who didn't go in the top 5? He's got an elite arm but there were obviously questions about him. He wasn't even the first QB drafted that year.

He put up huge numbers after sitting behind Alex Smith pretty much his whole rookie season. He's got a stacked offense which made Alex Smith look like an MVP candidate the year prior with less talent at WR.

Yes it's a stretch to assume if Mahomes plays here in 2017 behind our OL with our skill players that he's anywhere close to what he looked like this year for KC.

As for Thomas they said they drafted him to play the Michael Bennett role, which is to play outside in base them move inside on pass downs. That sure as chit wasn't happening.

People often forget Patrick m had an all pro receiver, running back and tight end not to mention a great line protecting him and weapons all over the place. There is no question he would've done a lot worse on the 49ers. No doubt in my mind as well as everybody else's. So people can stop pretending it was such a bad miss by not picking him up.

Alex Smith had the most deep passes on Kansas City in the nfl that last year!!!!!. Nothing more needs to be said. That has got to be a joke because that was his biggest limitation and his biggest knock. So let's stop pretending Patrick Mahomes is so great. Alex Smith was also the highest rated quarterback. Are you noticing a pattern? In what world is Alex Smith the top rated passer and deep passer? Mahomes is very good but I like Jimmy G and his ability to go through progressions and everything that comes with him.

LOL, if you look at his numbers and call Mahomes anything but great, you are pretending.
Dude is great.

Mahomes is great in that offense on that team. Would he be great here? I find that hard to believe. Would he be better than Beathard or Hoyer? I find that easy to believe.

Question becomes what happens to him long term if he was drafted by us with the pressure of being the #2 overall pick or #3 assuming we make that trade with Chicago(but if we think Mahomes is our franchise QB we don't make that trade and take him at 2)

There have been many stud QBs who were hyped up like crazy who went to pathetic teams with weak rosters and basically got shell shocked. They were rushed out there to play with high expectations and simply couldn't rise up to the challenge.

Aaron Rodgers would not be the player he is today if he was drafted by us. He got to sit back behind Favre and worked with McCarthy to rework his mechanics to make him the player he is today. Had he been drafted by us and rushed out there with a weak roster week 1 without taking that time to perfect the offense and work on his mechanics we're looking at a far cry from what he is now with the Packers.

Similar situation to Mahomes. Maybe he rises up and his athletic ability alone makes him a standout but in an offense so precise street ball isn't Kyle's preference. Pretty sure it was reported that Reid adjusted things to help Mahomes use his talent and the fact that they threw all this speed out there for him shows they knew what they were doing to ensure he's hitting the ground running.

Kyle is wrong if he thinks Mahomes would be a bad fit.
Dude would have balled out here.
I like JG but he is no Mahomes.

Were you calling for Mahomes to be our 2nd overall pick in that draft?

And Kyle didn't say Mahomes would be a bad fit. The draft is a calculated risk.

You don't get to magically pick the guys you want to bring on the roster. You get so many picks and you have to make selections based on your board, while other teams do the same.

I'm sure Kyle would've loved to have Mahomes on the roster but at the cost of #2 overall or #3 overall? With the state of the roster?

Taking Beathard in the late 3rd round with Hoyer as the stop gap vet until we could sign Kirk Cousins without giving up any draft capital made a lot of sense for Kyle. It was the easiest way to guarantee he could get a QB he knew could run his offense no problem in the NFL.

You take a rookie top 3 without him playing in a pro offense and you're treading in dangerous waters.

Make no mistake: GQ > Mahomes.

GQ is like the franchise QB that will bring us to the promised land, with help from Kyle of course. QB has better arm strength, quicker release, as good pocket presence, even his face sells tickets. We are so lucky to have GQ.

Lol let's pump the breaks here. I love Jimmy but Mahomes has more starting experience at this point than Jimmy and has a league MVP in that one season starting. He also clearly has a much better arm than Jimmy.

Jimmy has a lot to prove still. But Mahomes needs to prove he can keep up last year's play and Tyreek Hill being suspended potentially could certainly show us a glimpse of that offense without him.

He was being sarcastic.
He beat down jimmy for weeks on the forum and then did a 180 & is saying jimmy is the greatest.
Pathetic actually.

Originally posted by Jeepzilla:
He was being sarcastic.
He beat down jimmy for weeks on the forum and then did a 180 & is saying jimmy is the greatest.
Pathetic actually.

He thinks Mullens should be starting. He made countless posts to that effect.

People need to slow down on both sides of the ball when it comes to Jimmy G, this includes the media who says he has to do it this year. Remember it took Ryan a whole year to get comfortable. While JG has been here a 1 1/2 years physically, he hasn't been playing a whole year. Of course he needs to be healthy, that is the main concern. The others though is how fast he can develop chemistry with people not named Taylor and Goodwin. Pettis didn't really get much of a chance. Kittle, Deebo, Jordon and Hurd will need to develop that. Not to mention Tevin

I am wondering who he invited to train with him. Why haven't any the reporters followed up that and the training?

Another factor is of course the OL. Hopefully, having played together and all of them returning for the first time, will form a cohesive and better line. Still, I don't look at this year as a make or break year like many others do.

Originally posted by WildBill:
People need to slow down on both sides of the ball when it comes to Jimmy G, this includes the media who says he has to do it this year. Remember it took Ryan a whole year to get comfortable. While JG has been here a 1 1/2 years physically, he hasn't been playing a whole year. Of course he needs to be healthy, that is the main concern. The others though is how fast he can develop chemistry with people not named Taylor and Goodwin. Pettis didn't really get much of a chance. Kittle, Deebo, Jordon and Hurd will need to develop that. Not to mention Tevin

I am wondering who he invited to train with him. Why haven't any the reporters followed up that and the training?

Another factor is of course the OL. Hopefully, having played together and all of them returning for the first time, will form a cohesive and better line. Still, I don't look at this year as a make or break year like many others do.

I agree - this year should be seen as a developmental year. Get Jimmy back in the groove along with the young guys. Next year is the year we should look for competing and going for the NFC West.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

This is what I said genus. You left out the sentence before that which gives context.

unless they're keeping tight wraps on his recovery. I acknowledge that could be a possibility.

...So in other words...he could be doing a lot better than what is publically known. That's what' I'm acknowledging as a possibility.

You said...

We waited 3 years to address the pass rush because we didn't see edge rushers worth investing seriously in before this offseason.

then you said....

And them waiting on pass rush was speculation. It was made fact by this very offseason. Not only did we trade for Ford but took Bosa at 2 overall. That's called admitting you have a huge need at the position.

So trading for Ford this season doesn't preclude the team from seeing that there was an edge rusher "worth investing seriously in before this offseason" because clearly they did see Mack as worth it and from what John tells us, it was the Raiders who decided not to close to deal, not the 49ers. So we had been seriously looking to invest in edge for more than one season and weren't waiting at all. Draft wise, we had other priorities and talent available may not have been ideal until this season. I'm not conflating the two.

To your second point...

We've added to the OL, some vets and rookies. Will they be the answer? Who knows. We'll find out.

You've gone from "our OL is adequate" to "who knows, we'll find out." I'd say that's a bit of a swing. Again my point is simple, when it comes to protecting Jimmy G, "who knows, we'll find out" is pretty sketchy for protecting your FQB. All we can do is wait, but I'm glad you're demonstrating what I think we all should - doubt that given the players we have, there's a good chance things might not work out for protecting JG.

The real question is why? If searching for and finding a FQB is every organization's first priority, shouldn't protecting him be right behind that?

Again I'm waiting to see how Richburg pans out. Who knows. We'll see.

Except I have done no swinging at all.

We are returning our 5 starters from last year and improved the skill players which in turn will help the QB get the ball out quicker.

My "we'll see" comment was about the players we've added as depth. Players you don't seem to think much of by having all these major concerns about the OL. My point was the team has added other OL we didn't have previously. Just because they're not high prized free agents or early draft picks doesn't mean they can't turn into very good players for us.

And back to the pass rush stuff you're reading too much into the three year comment. Obviously there are players available who they like via trade but you can't control trades since it takes two sides to make them happen as we saw with the Mack situation. It doesn't change my point that the whole "you don't replace a Marsh" thing was all talk until they got someone better.

Originally posted by Jeepzilla:

Indy Colts
Luck was getting beat up year after year, they fix the line and now what are they for pass protection and sacks? How often is Luck getting hit now?

Fixing the line into a top 10 unit in pass protection should have been priority 1A/1/B the day Kyle and Lynch took over.

How long has Luck been there though and they finally now have an OL worth talking about?

Adding to the OL just to add to it doesn't make sense when it's not the best bang for your buck and while you have other huge needs like we do.

Quenton Nelson was a no brainer pick for them. Guy was about as safe a pick as you can get. Braden Smith was also a really good pick, not nearly as safe but he was very talented and they doubled down. That after taking Kelly prior with him being a very safe pick as well.

I'm sure we'll do something similar soon but the draft has to work out for us like that.

Originally posted by mayo49:
I agree - this year should be seen as a developmental year. Get Jimmy back in the groove along with the young guys. Next year is the year we should look for competing and going for the NFC West.

Very realistic expectations. As usual for us, health will be a big factor not only for Jimmy but for several guys that we arte hoping will make an impact.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Jeepzilla:

Indy Colts
Luck was getting beat up year after year, they fix the line and now what are they for pass protection and sacks? How often is Luck getting hit now?

Fixing the line into a top 10 unit in pass protection should have been priority 1A/1/B the day Kyle and Lynch took over.

How long has Luck been there though and they finally now have an OL worth talking about?

Adding to the OL just to add to it doesn't make sense when it's not the best bang for your buck and while you have other huge needs like we do.

Quenton Nelson was a no brainer pick for them. Guy was about as safe a pick as you can get. Braden Smith was also a really good pick, not nearly as safe but he was very talented and they doubled down. That after taking Kelly prior with him being a very safe pick as well.

I'm sure we'll do something similar soon but the draft has to work out for us like that.

In the three years Kyle and lunch have been here, they definitely could have done more for the O line.
They had the money and the draft picks.
They've choose not to.

I don't agree with there choice.

What I'm saying is they should have. O-Line should be a priority, and I gave the colts as an example. You state look how long Lucks been there, but only what, two years it took them to go from last to 2nd, or 1st.

You opinion is "most" whatever the front office here does is great and perfect, & I don't agree..

Happy 4th to all!

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by genus49:

Elite talent at QB who didn't go in the top 5? He's got an elite arm but there were obviously questions about him. He wasn't even the first QB drafted that year.

He put up huge numbers after sitting behind Alex Smith pretty much his whole rookie season. He's got a stacked offense which made Alex Smith look like an MVP candidate the year prior with less talent at WR.

Yes it's a stretch to assume if Mahomes plays here in 2017 behind our OL with our skill players that he's anywhere close to what he looked like this year for KC.

As for Thomas they said they drafted him to play the Michael Bennett role, which is to play outside in base them move inside on pass downs. That sure as chit wasn't happening.

People often forget Patrick m had an all pro receiver, running back and tight end not to mention a great line protecting him and weapons all over the place. There is no question he would've done a lot worse on the 49ers. No doubt in my mind as well as everybody else's. So people can stop pretending it was such a bad miss by not picking him up.

Alex Smith had the most deep passes on Kansas City in the nfl that last year!!!!!. Nothing more needs to be said. That has got to be a joke because that was his biggest limitation and his biggest knock. So let's stop pretending Patrick Mahomes is so great. Alex Smith was also the highest rated quarterback. Are you noticing a pattern? In what world is Alex Smith the top rated passer and deep passer? Mahomes is very good but I like Jimmy G and his ability to go through progressions and everything that comes with him.

LOL, if you look at his numbers and call Mahomes anything but great, you are pretending.
Dude is great.

Nope, not at all. Did you see all of his games or look at his film? You will see his all pro team around him as well as his coach help so so much, people were wide open I don't even need to explain this....I'm surprised I'm even saying this because I thought it was obvious. He put up great numbers I never said anything other than that however I don't think he's a great quarterback yet. Plain and simple.

Alex Smith played at an all pro or at least an elite level his last year there so not reading too much into it. Like I said before the highest passer rating in the league as well as the most deep passes completed. That's ridiculous for Alex Smith of all people. If you watched his career you would know that he is not good at all throwing deep, not even close. As a matter of fact he is probably one of the worst quarterbacks in the league at it yet he's number one on Kansas City. Hope that's clear so unless you want to pretend that did not occur go ahead.

You don't think a qb who throws for 5000 yards and 50 TDs is great?
LOL

Comparing Alex Smith's 2017 to Mahomes 2018 is like comparing Gabbert's 2016 to Steve Young's 1998. It is irrelevant.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by genus49:
Elite talent at QB who didn't go in the top 5? He's got an elite arm but there were obviously questions about him. He wasn't even the first QB drafted that year.

He put up huge numbers after sitting behind Alex Smith pretty much his whole rookie season. He's got a stacked offense which made Alex Smith look like an MVP candidate the year prior with less talent at WR.

Yes it's a stretch to assume if Mahomes plays here in 2017 behind our OL with our skill players that he's anywhere close to what he looked like this year for KC.

As for Thomas they said they drafted him to play the Michael Bennett role, which is to play outside in base them move inside on pass downs. That sure as chit wasn't happening.

People often forget Patrick m had an all pro receiver, running back and tight end not to mention a great line protecting him and weapons all over the place. There is no question he would've done a lot worse on the 49ers. No doubt in my mind as well as everybody else's. So people can stop pretending it was such a bad miss by not picking him up.

Alex Smith had the most deep passes on Kansas City in the nfl that last year!!!!!. Nothing more needs to be said. That has got to be a joke because that was his biggest limitation and his biggest knock. So let's stop pretending Patrick Mahomes is so great. Alex Smith was also the highest rated quarterback. Are you noticing a pattern? In what world is Alex Smith the top rated passer and deep passer? Mahomes is very good but I like Jimmy G and his ability to go through progressions and everything that comes with him.

LOL, if you look at his numbers and call Mahomes anything but great, you are pretending.
Dude is great.

Nope, not at all. Did you see all of his games or look at his film? You will see his all pro team around him as well as his coach help so so much, people were wide open I don't even need to explain this....I'm surprised I'm even saying this because I thought it was obvious. He put up great numbers I never said anything other than that however I don't think he's a great quarterback yet. Plain and simple.

Alex Smith played at an all pro or at least an elite level his last year there so not reading too much into it. Like I said before the highest passer rating in the league as well as the most deep passes completed. That's ridiculous for Alex Smith of all people. If you watched his career you would know that he is not good at all throwing deep, not even close. As a matter of fact he is probably one of the worst quarterbacks in the league at it yet he's number one on Kansas City. Hope that's clear so unless you want to pretend that did not occur go ahead.

You don't think a qb who throws for 5000 yards and 50 TDs is great?
LOL

Comparing Alex Smith's 2017 to Mahomes 2018 is like comparing Gabbert's 2016 to Steve Young's 1998. It is irrelevant.

for real, what's so hard about seeing Mahomes greatness?

Originally posted by NinerGM:

100% complete speculation. We "hope" we are returning 5 starters from last year and we "hope" we have improved the skill players. Debo Samual and Jalen Hurd are rookies. Tevin Coleman is the only skill player we've added of consequence. Matthews is returning from injury and has had a lot of injuries. Pettis we hope will make the next leap. So the "improved" assessment is essentially one player.

Again I'm not about stating what isn't and being realistic about what is today, and being very clear about calling out what I hope will happen. Not even the coaches know 100% that we've "improved the skill players."

Us returning our 5 starters is fact not speculation. Not sure what you're even talking about.

Originally posted by Jeepzilla:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Jeepzilla:

Indy Colts
Luck was getting beat up year after year, they fix the line and now what are they for pass protection and sacks? How often is Luck getting hit now?

Fixing the line into a top 10 unit in pass protection should have been priority 1A/1/B the day Kyle and Lynch took over.

How long has Luck been there though and they finally now have an OL worth talking about?

Adding to the OL just to add to it doesn't make sense when it's not the best bang for your buck and while you have other huge needs like we do.

Quenton Nelson was a no brainer pick for them. Guy was about as safe a pick as you can get. Braden Smith was also a really good pick, not nearly as safe but he was very talented and they doubled down. That after taking Kelly prior with him being a very safe pick as well.

I'm sure we'll do something similar soon but the draft has to work out for us like that.

In the three years Kyle and lunch have been here, they definitely could have done more for the O line.
They had the money and the draft picks.
They've choose not to.

I don't agree with there choice.

What I'm saying is they should have. O-Line should be a priority, and I gave the colts as an example. You state look how long Lucks been there, but only what, two years it took them to go from last to 2nd, or 1st.

You opinion is "most" whatever the front office here does is great and perfect, & I don't agree..

Happy 4th to all!

What would you have done? Let's hear your masterful OL rebuild plan.

Easy to complain.