Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

On JG that was more my feel on the "type" of guy he is, but my overall point is that Cousins has been little more than a stat-stuffing loser when it comes to impacting his team in the Win column. With so many games decided by small margins these days, his inability to be a closer throughout his career has to be looked at as a critical factor towards that. Cousins isn't the only one who puts up big numbers and loses. I want to know my QB can win when faced with tough matchups, critical game situations, etc.

While sure there may have been other factors involved, I personally don't think it's a coincidence that Washington minus Cousins went from loser to a winner last year (while Alex Smith was healthy), and Minnesota went from a Championship contender to barely over .500 with him there.

Imo there's only a couple QBs that have that "clutch" gene...it makes a good QB great. I never said Kirk was great

There's plenty of good QBs that you could call stat-stuffers (that I wouldn't hate as my qb at one pt) Stafford/Palmer come to mind. Matt Ryan was a 1-5 in the playoffs before kyle and alway put up numbers.

So, do you think Keemun is better than Kirk? Or do you think he was placed in a perfect scenario based on his skill set? We saw what he was in Denver last yr with a different OC

As far as Washington with Alex, they won one game all yr vs a +500 team and it was Dallas in D.C... in which they held Zeke to 33 yards and Alex had 178 yards 1 TD and completed 56% of his passes He had his team 6-4, was avg 218 yards, 1 td to 1/2 INT ratio. Pretty much alex smith numbers.

I'm team JG all the way, I just don't think Kirk sucks as bad as you're saying

It's not that I think Kirk sucks, it's just that I'd take other guys over him and I place a lot more value on other intangibles over the production compared to his peers -- that's really what I was getting at. Of course Keenum isn't better, he is a system QB who was a good game manager there and had great chemistry with his teammates. It was very unlikely he'd repeat the same success anywhere else. Alex's situation was pretty clear -- their entire OL was in shambles from injury to top-tier starters and he had absolutely zero weapons to throw to. It's amazing they were still winning.

I would take a healthy Alex over Cousins just like I'd take Jimmy over Cousins because I think their clutch factor and situational awareness is another tool in the toolset that I haven't seen from Kirk (escapability is another one I haven't mentioned).

Vikings still had a top 5 defense last year, but the team went 1-6-1 against teams with winning records in 2018. What's troubling I think for Vikings fans is, the majority of these games they weren't particularly close. Lots of two-score losses (average loss margin 12 points). Shouldn't happen with a defense like that and an offense featuring Diggs, Thielen, Rudolph, and Dalvin Cook. Mullens in 8 games had as many wins against winning teams with an inferior supporting cast on both sides of the ball.

Of course in the end it's a difference of opinion. I just see a guy that seems to fall short almost every time he's challenged.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Why not, there's nothing else to talk about this time of year.

It happened because of the Florio article speculating that the Niners might try and get Cousins if Jimmy fails. Just filler for a dead time of the year for sports.

Yup. Basically Florio is pulling stuff out of his hat to justify his salary.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
It's not that I think Kirk sucks, it's just that I'd take other guys over him and I place a lot more value on other intangibles over the production compared to his peers -- that's really what I was getting at. Of course Keenum isn't better, he is a system QB who was a good game manager there and had great chemistry with his teammates. It was very unlikely he'd repeat the same success anywhere else. Alex's situation was pretty clear -- their entire OL was in shambles from injury to top-tier starters and he had absolutely zero weapons to throw to. It's amazing they were still winning.

I would take a healthy Alex over Cousins just like I'd take Jimmy over Cousins because I think their clutch factor and situational awareness is another tool in the toolset that I haven't seen from Kirk (escapability is another one I haven't mentioned).

Vikings still had a top 5 defense last year, but the team went 1-6-1 against teams with winning records in 2018. What's troubling I think for Vikings fans is, the majority of these games they weren't particularly close. Lots of two-score losses (average loss margin 12 points). Shouldn't happen with a defense like that and an offense featuring Diggs, Thielen, Rudolph, and Dalvin Cook. Mullens in 8 games had as many wins against winning teams with an inferior supporting cast on both sides of the ball.

Of course in the end it's a difference of opinion. I just see a guy that seems to fall short almost every time he's challenged.

Hey it's your opinion all good...I disagree with taking Smith over Cousins. We don't really have proof of the clutch factor with JG yet (I know it's your gut on that). Hopefully he does have "it"

That Minn team lived and died because of the OL. Their running game was awful (30th ranked), yet the pass offense was 13th. Kirk is a play-action QB and when the run game is trash, he's gonna struggle plain and simple.

All I'm saying is there's a lot more that goes into it and certain QBs thrive in certain offenses...I have no doubt Kirk would do well here. I also view every game as a challenge for QBs.

It's all nonsense anyway Jimmy G is gonna be the MVP amirte?

Too bad Jimmy can't work out and get mentored by Montana.

Joe Montana has never been the warm-and-cuddly type. The legendary NFL quarterback, arguably the greatest to ever do it, reaffirmed that when describing his chilly relationship with Jimmy Garoppolo.
Montana, a three-time Super Bowl MVP with the San Francisco 49ers, told The Mercury News that he hasn't worked out with Garoppolo and "stays away" from the 49ers practice facility. He doesn't want to interfere, preferring to let the franchise's new signal-caller create his own legacy in the Bay Area.
"No, I stay away from there," Montana told Cam Inman. "I've been there, done that and have moved on with my investment fund."
https://heavy.com/sports/2019/06/49ers-joe-montana-jimmy-garappolo-news/

Originally posted by Giedi:
Too bad Jimmy can't work out and get mentored by Montana.

Joe Montana has never been the warm-and-cuddly type. The legendary NFL quarterback, arguably the greatest to ever do it, reaffirmed that when describing his chilly relationship with Jimmy Garoppolo.
Montana, a three-time Super Bowl MVP with the San Francisco 49ers, told The Mercury News that he hasn't worked out with Garoppolo and "stays away" from the 49ers practice facility. He doesn't want to interfere, preferring to let the franchise's new signal-caller create his own legacy in the Bay Area.
"No, I stay away from there," Montana told Cam Inman. "I've been there, done that and have moved on with my investment fund."
https://heavy.com/sports/2019/06/49ers-joe-montana-jimmy-garappolo-news/

And the tension between Steve Young and Montana was well known.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Yup. Basically Florio is pulling stuff out of his hat to justify his salary.

You're being too kind. I think he was pulling it out of some other place.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Too bad Jimmy can't work out and get mentored by Montana.

Joe Montana has never been the warm-and-cuddly type. The legendary NFL quarterback, arguably the greatest to ever do it, reaffirmed that when describing his chilly relationship with Jimmy Garoppolo.
Montana, a three-time Super Bowl MVP with the San Francisco 49ers, told The Mercury News that he hasn't worked out with Garoppolo and "stays away" from the 49ers practice facility. He doesn't want to interfere, preferring to let the franchise's new signal-caller create his own legacy in the Bay Area.
"No, I stay away from there," Montana told Cam Inman. "I've been there, done that and have moved on with my investment fund."
https://heavy.com/sports/2019/06/49ers-joe-montana-jimmy-garappolo-news/

He already got mentored by the greatest QB and HC of all-time. (Brady & Belichick)

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

It's not that I think Kirk sucks, it's just that I'd take other guys over him and I place a lot more value on other intangibles over the production compared to his peers -- that's really what I was getting at. Of course Keenum isn't better, he is a system QB who was a good game manager there and had great chemistry with his teammates. It was very unlikely he'd repeat the same success anywhere else. Alex's situation was pretty clear -- their entire OL was in shambles from injury to top-tier starters and he had absolutely zero weapons to throw to. It's amazing they were still winning.

I would take a healthy Alex over Cousins just like I'd take Jimmy over Cousins because I think their clutch factor and situational awareness is another tool in the toolset that I haven't seen from Kirk (escapability is another one I haven't mentioned).

Vikings still had a top 5 defense last year, but the team went 1-6-1 against teams with winning records in 2018. What's troubling I think for Vikings fans is, the majority of these games they weren't particularly close. Lots of two-score losses (average loss margin 12 points). Shouldn't happen with a defense like that and an offense featuring Diggs, Thielen, Rudolph, and Dalvin Cook. Mullens in 8 games had as many wins against winning teams with an inferior supporting cast on both sides of the ball.

Of course in the end it's a difference of opinion. I just see a guy that seems to fall short almost every time he's challenged.

Hey it's your opinion all good...I disagree with taking Smith over Cousins. We don't really have proof of the clutch factor with JG yet (I know it's your gut on that). Hopefully he does have "it"

That Minn team lived and died because of the OL. Their running game was awful (30th ranked), yet the pass offense was 13th. Kirk is a play-action QB and when the run game is trash, he's gonna struggle plain and simple.

All I'm saying is there's a lot more that goes into it and certain QBs thrive in certain offenses...I have no doubt Kirk would do well here. I also view every game as a challenge for QBs.

It's all nonsense anyway Jimmy G is gonna be the MVP amirte?

I was basing my perception of having a clutch factor and the sense of a "undaunted in the face of a challenge" characteristic from those 2017 Bears, Titans, and Jaguars games, respectively -- but of course that's a really limited sample size. And yeah!! Here's to hoping so!

At minimum hoping for Jimmy G playing so well he wins Comeback POY!

The only reason I would take Kirk Cousins is to give Jimmy an extra ACL just in case.

Jimmy in his short stint with us in 2017 proved to me he's got what it takes. He just has to stay healthy.

I can't believe there is any doubt about the kid at this point. Did he light the world on fire last year? No...but check out the context of those games.

Brutal matchup week 1 where we have to go on the road vs a heavy SB favorite.
We lose McKinnon a week prior to the game after the game plan was going to feature him heavily
Mid game we lose Person, then Garnett after he replaces him. McGlinchey gets moved inside to a position he never played in his first game as a rookie vs one of the better defensive fronts in the game
Goodwin gets hurt mid game totally making our WRs virtually useless
Critical drops, bad routes leading to interceptions, chit ton of pressure...

Week 2
WRs can't open
Coverage sacks left and right

Week 3 on the road vs KC - we know where they ended up
Jimmy's best game and he was only ramping up before the awful decision not to just run out of bounds vs one of the best pass rushing teams last year(tied for first in sacks with Pittsburgh)

But what he did in 2017 with a weak roster tells me the guy is one of the few QBs who can make others better around him. I don't get that vibe from Kirk. He's one of the guys who can play well with talent around him and that's fine...but if you find guys who can play well without being surrounded by the Julio Jones' of the world then you have yourselves a winner.

I've seen Jimmy on a good roster when he's got full control of the offense and has quality protection and it's a thing of beauty(go back and watch his Pats starts)

Just needs to stay healthy and we'll be here laughing our asses off at Florio and any other Jimmy doubters.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

I was basing my perception of having a clutch factor and the sense of a "undaunted in the face of a challenge" characteristic from those 2017 Bears, Titans, and Jaguars games, respectively -- but of course that's a really limited sample size. And yeah!! Here's to hoping so!

At minimum hoping for Jimmy G playing so well he wins Comeback POY!

Would love it!

na genus49 I'd rather see what Mullens has than try Cousins.

WAAAAY Less money, and better potential? Cousins is a Vet and has been on stacked teams, imo. Curious to see what Mullens can do with more firepower and a better defense.

but for now ALL JIMMY!!!!

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

He already got mentored by the greatest QB and HC of all-time. (Brady & Belichick)

One of the greatest...

Originally posted by Afrikan:
na genus49 I'd rather see what Mullens has than try Cousins.

WAAAAY Less money, and better potential? Cousins is a Vet and has been on stacked teams, imo. Curious to see what Mullens can do with more firepower and a better defense.

but for now ALL JIMMY!!!!

Mullens might not even be on the roster come final cuts....I'd prefer to keep him over CJ but the coaches love them some CJ.

Kirk is by far a better QB than BDN. Nick doesn't have a NFL caliber arm his potential is pretty limited. Great backup

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Afrikan:

na genus49 I'd rather see what Mullens has than try Cousins.

WAAAAY Less money, and better potential? Cousins is a Vet and has been on stacked teams, imo. Curious to see what Mullens can do with more firepower and a better defense.

but for now ALL JIMMY!!!!

Mullens might not even be on the roster come final cuts....I'd prefer to keep him over CJ but the coaches love them some CJ.

Kirk is by far a better QB than BDN. Nick doesn't have a NFL caliber arm his potential is pretty limited. Great backup

Curious to see if Mullens' velocity has improved because it's reportedly something he's worked on this off-season. I feel like his arm was as good as guys like Keenum and Dalton so I dunno if that puts him as strictly a career backup. Feel like it's too early to say.

On the other hand, Beathard no doubt has an NFL arm, he just clearly lacks NFL instincts and pocket awareness.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Why not, there's nothing else to talk about this time of year.

It happened because of the Florio article speculating that the Niners might try and get Cousins if Jimmy fails. Just filler for a dead time of the year for sports.

Yup. Basically Florio is pulling stuff out of his hat to justify his salary.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Yup. Basically Florio is pulling stuff out of his hat to justify his salary.

You're being too kind. I think he was pulling it out of some other place.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

It's not that I think Kirk sucks, it's just that I'd take other guys over him and I place a lot more value on other intangibles over the production compared to his peers -- that's really what I was getting at. Of course Keenum isn't better, he is a system QB who was a good game manager there and had great chemistry with his teammates. It was very unlikely he'd repeat the same success anywhere else. Alex's situation was pretty clear -- their entire OL was in shambles from injury to top-tier starters and he had absolutely zero weapons to throw to. It's amazing they were still winning.

I would take a healthy Alex over Cousins just like I'd take Jimmy over Cousins because I think their clutch factor and situational awareness is another tool in the toolset that I haven't seen from Kirk (escapability is another one I haven't mentioned).

Vikings still had a top 5 defense last year, but the team went 1-6-1 against teams with winning records in 2018. What's troubling I think for Vikings fans is, the majority of these games they weren't particularly close. Lots of two-score losses (average loss margin 12 points). Shouldn't happen with a defense like that and an offense featuring Diggs, Thielen, Rudolph, and Dalvin Cook. Mullens in 8 games had as many wins against winning teams with an inferior supporting cast on both sides of the ball.

Of course in the end it's a difference of opinion. I just see a guy that seems to fall short almost every time he's challenged.

Hey it's your opinion all good...I disagree with taking Smith over Cousins. We don't really have proof of the clutch factor with JG yet (I know it's your gut on that). Hopefully he does have "it"

That Minn team lived and died because of the OL. Their running game was awful (30th ranked), yet the pass offense was 13th. Kirk is a play-action QB and when the run game is trash, he's gonna struggle plain and simple.

All I'm saying is there's a lot more that goes into it and certain QBs thrive in certain offenses...I have no doubt Kirk would do well here. I also view every game as a challenge for QBs.

It's all nonsense anyway Jimmy G is gonna be the MVP amirte?

I was basing my perception of having a clutch factor and the sense of a "undaunted in the face of a challenge" characteristic from those 2017 Bears, Titans, and Jaguars games, respectively -- but of course that's a really limited sample size. And yeah!! Here's to hoping so!

At minimum hoping for Jimmy G playing so well he wins Comeback POY!

Originally posted by genus49:

The only reason I would take Kirk Cousins is to give Jimmy an extra ACL just in case.

Jimmy in his short stint with us in 2017 proved to me he's got what it takes. He just has to stay healthy.

I can't believe there is any doubt about the kid at this point. Did he light the world on fire last year? No...but check out the context of those games.

Brutal matchup week 1 where we have to go on the road vs a heavy SB favorite.
We lose McKinnon a week prior to the game after the game plan was going to feature him heavily
Mid game we lose Person, then Garnett after he replaces him. McGlinchey gets moved inside to a position he never played in his first game as a rookie vs one of the better defensive fronts in the game
Goodwin gets hurt mid game totally making our WRs virtually useless
Critical drops, bad routes leading to interceptions, chit ton of pressure...

Week 2
WRs can't open
Coverage sacks left and right

Week 3 on the road vs KC - we know where they ended up
Jimmy's best game and he was only ramping up before the awful decision not to just run out of bounds vs one of the best pass rushing teams last year(tied for first in sacks with Pittsburgh)

But what he did in 2017 with a weak roster tells me the guy is one of the few QBs who can make others better around him. I don't get that vibe from Kirk. He's one of the guys who can play well with talent around him and that's fine...but if you find guys who can play well without being surrounded by the Julio Jones' of the world then you have yourselves a winner.

I've seen Jimmy on a good roster when he's got full control of the offense and has quality protection and it's a thing of beauty(go back and watch his Pats starts)

Just needs to stay healthy and we'll be here laughing our asses off at Florio and any other Jimmy doubters.

Well said, Genus, well said.