Solomon Thomas, DT

Originally posted by Alfienator:
Wait, you're comparing familiarity between coaches and players to two people who took the same class?

Who do you think knows a person better his college HC or a class mate?

If his point was that personal relationships help you get drafted due to connections then i'd certainly think the comparison is fair. End of the day it's about football and player evaluations. If one prospect is better than the other then you take the better prospect despite a prior personal connection.

We drafted Thomas because we had a high grade on him and felt he could make this team better. I have no doubt that him taking a class with Lynch had no bearing on our draft evaluation of him outside of confirming that he's a hard worker which could've been learned from any of his coaches or teammates.

Originally posted by Ensatsu:

Originally posted by Alfienator:
Wait, you're comparing familiarity between coaches and players to two people who took the same class?

I'd say that knowing someone's character is a big part of the draft process, so if you know someone personally, why would that not help?

Especially after the Reuben Foster debacle. Perhaps if Lynch took a class at Alabama and saw this guy being an idiot, maybe he wouldn't have drafted him.

Sure only in the sense of knowing whether you can trust the player. But as I just mentioned above there were 0 red flags on Solly's character so the class just reinforced what everyone knew about him as a person.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

That further illustrates the point that it's far too early to make absolute statements. We're one game into the season. Since AA wasn't jettisoned, Thomas won't get as many snaps either way. AA played too well last year, and continued to play too well in the game Sunday for them to shake it up much. It wasn't necessarily a knock on Thomas but more a credit to AA. Does that make sense?

That said, the moment AA starts to struggle with a matchup where his opponent is weaker against speed than power, that's when I think you'll see the snap count shift more towards Thomas. That's one nice thing we have -- I think in terms of the depth of skill-set balance, this D-line is pretty good.

Fair response I just don't think that will happen enough to quiet the crowd. In Kittle's case he was on the field 90% of plays. If we kept Vance around and George split time that tight end #2 talk wouldn't go away.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Solomon was supposed to be a more athletic and more effective version of Arik Armstead. It hasn't worked out like that unfortunately so far. However, we are only one game into the new season/system. Remember the imbeciles last year saying Kittle will never be anything more than a #2 TE after Week 1? Yeah. You see how that turned out.

If he's still not producing or making any impact later in the year, then we know we have a real problem. For now, let's show a little more patience. I'd personally rather not jump to conclusions and look like a total fool while losing all credibility later because I made bold proclamations too soon.

I don't remember people saying that about Kittle. I said Kittle was an A+ pick and absolutely perfect for KS

The two picks I've been screaming about Lynch nailing that year was Spoon and Kittle

https://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/188733-49ers-select-george-kittle-round-pick-146/page66/

https://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/188733-49ers-select-george-kittle-round-pick-146/page67/

"Screw this redneck hillbilly."

"So many excuses made for him."

"He's not the long term answer."

"We could do much better."

"No special traits. Easily replaced in the off-season."

lol...shocker okdkid being one of the guys to trash on Kittle too.

Guess every player is sh*t until they're not.

I'm not following. What is your point?

Stupid opinions are said all the time. That doesn't mean every opinion is stupid

You could pick any player in the league and find an internet opinion trashing them. Doesn't mean all criticism is equally dumb.

Edit:
Also on Kittle:

https://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/188733-49ers-select-george-kittle-round-pick-146/
"Excellent pick!"

https://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/188733-49ers-select-george-kittle-round-pick-146/page25/
"Jordan Reed 2.0

KS was working with Fred Davis as a TE with the Redskins until 2013 when he had a young rookie Jordan Reed to use. Reed had 500 yards, 3 TDs in 9 games as a rookie. So yeah, KS is not shy about heavily using a rookie TE."

Probably off on my comparison. But I did say TWO-POINT-O.

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by CardinalGold:

If I recall correctly they had a plan for Solomon Thomas and it was playing him at the edge. The fault with decision makers is in (1) making that incorrect projection (2) not having a fallback plan of being able to play him at another position, presumably his natural position, due to other personnel that had been drafted just prior.

Once they saw he couldn't cut it at edge they made things worse by allowing his trade value to fall by keeping there rather than showcase some strengths by giving game snaps inside. Now, maybe he is also not good inside but whether or not he is good there is the only remaining debate on this board.

All around the travesty falls on the decision making process which I assume lands with Lynch as GM. Such a shame to own the second overall pick in a draft and come away with only this from that pick.

thank you. i actually forgot or blocked it out cuz he and foster were such disappointments to me. agree. you give lynch credit, and rightfully so for getting george jimmy sherman and others.. but he gets the blame for the two blown first round picks that year.. then to make it worse. you have a dc who is an idiot. what is it about a square peg in a round hole. well two years later. we are still setting here with the same issue. i get giving him a pass last year due to off the field things. but here we set seeing the same s**t

"Sitting" and "sit"

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
I'm not following. What is your point?

Stupid opinions are said all the time. That doesn't mean every opinion is stupid

You could pick any player in the league and find an internet opinion trashing them. Doesn't mean all criticism is equally dumb.

Edit:
Also on Kittle:

https://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/188733-49ers-select-george-kittle-round-pick-146/
"Excellent pick!"

https://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/188733-49ers-select-george-kittle-round-pick-146/page25/
"Jordan Reed 2.0

KS was working with Fred Davis as a TE with the Redskins until 2013 when he had a young rookie Jordan Reed to use. Reed had 500 yards, 3 TDs in 9 games as a rookie. So yeah, KS is not shy about heavily using a rookie TE."

Probably off on my comparison. But I did say TWO-POINT-O.

The point was too many people around these parts are so quick to trash players early in their careers instead of just letting them play and showing what they can do.

How many people were calling for Vance McDonald to be cut/traded?
We can pretty much go down the list for any player who didn't play great out of the gate...hell go look at the Bosa thread and with him missing 2 practices people are already circling again trying to talk sh*t about him being injury prone even though he was our best DLman vs Tampa and hasn't missed a single meaningful game yet.

Sure there are times when players under perform early and never break out but IMO before you judge a player one way or another you should see them for a good 3 years.

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Solomon was supposed to be a more athletic and more effective version of Arik Armstead. It hasn't worked out like that unfortunately so far. However, we are only one game into the new season/system. Remember the imbeciles last year saying Kittle will never be anything more than a #2 TE after Week 1? Yeah. You see how that turned out.

If he's still not producing or making any impact later in the year, then we know we have a real problem. For now, let's show a little more patience. I'd personally rather not jump to conclusions and look like a total fool while losing all credibility later because I made bold proclamations too soon.

I don't remember people saying that about Kittle. I said Kittle was an A+ pick and absolutely perfect for KS

The two picks I've been screaming about Lynch nailing that year was Spoon and Kittle

https://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/188733-49ers-select-george-kittle-round-pick-146/page66/

https://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/188733-49ers-select-george-kittle-round-pick-146/page67/

"Screw this redneck hillbilly."

"So many excuses made for him."

"He's not the long term answer."

"We could do much better."

"No special traits. Easily replaced in the off-season."

lol...shocker okdkid being one of the guys to trash on Kittle too.

Guess every player is sh*t until they're not.

I'm not following. What is your point?

Stupid opinions are said all the time. That doesn't mean every opinion is stupid

You could pick any player in the league and find an internet opinion trashing them. Doesn't mean all criticism is equally dumb.

Edit:
Also on Kittle:

https://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/188733-49ers-select-george-kittle-round-pick-146/
"Excellent pick!"

https://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/188733-49ers-select-george-kittle-round-pick-146/page25/
"Jordan Reed 2.0

KS was working with Fred Davis as a TE with the Redskins until 2013 when he had a young rookie Jordan Reed to use. Reed had 500 yards, 3 TDs in 9 games as a rookie. So yeah, KS is not shy about heavily using a rookie TE."

Probably off on my comparison. But I did say TWO-POINT-O.

SDN, I feel like we are not talking on the same point lol. I'm not sure what the post-draft takes on Kittle have to do with my point (side note, I was a huge fan of the pick too). But anyways, my point in my earlier post was that one game into a new system that should help Solly succeed is not long enough to truly assess him. We need more time before saying he's worthless. I used the old posts on Kittle as an example to show how one can look silly by saying certain things too soon, particularly after only Week 1.

To me, it almost feels like this is Solomon Thomas' 2nd year after what happened last year with him. So yeah, I want to be patient and see how things play out. As I stated earlier. Armstead isn't going to be the top option every game. Our DC's job is to attack weaknesses. If we find that speed/quickness is the other team's weakness, I think you'll see ST in there a lot more.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

I'm not following. What is your point?

Stupid opinions are said all the time. That doesn't mean every opinion is stupid

You could pick any player in the league and find an internet opinion trashing them. Doesn't mean all criticism is equally dumb.

Edit:
Also on Kittle:

https://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/188733-49ers-select-george-kittle-round-pick-146/
"Excellent pick!"

https://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/188733-49ers-select-george-kittle-round-pick-146/page25/
"Jordan Reed 2.0

KS was working with Fred Davis as a TE with the Redskins until 2013 when he had a young rookie Jordan Reed to use. Reed had 500 yards, 3 TDs in 9 games as a rookie. So yeah, KS is not shy about heavily using a rookie TE."

Probably off on my comparison. But I did say TWO-POINT-O.

The point was too many people around these parts are so quick to trash players early in their careers instead of just letting them play and showing what they can do.

How many people were calling for Vance McDonald to be cut/traded?
We can pretty much go down the list for any player who didn't play great out of the gate...hell go look at the Bosa thread and with him missing 2 practices people are already circling again trying to talk sh*t about him being injury prone even though he was our best DLman vs Tampa and hasn't missed a single meaningful game yet.

Sure there are times when players under perform early and never break out but IMO before you judge a player one way or another you should see them for a good 3 years.

Originally posted by genus49:
The point was too many people around these parts are so quick to trash players early in their careers instead of just letting them play and showing what they can do.

How many people were calling for Vance McDonald to be cut/traded?
We can pretty much go down the list for any player who didn't play great out of the gate...hell go look at the Bosa thread and with him missing 2 practices people are already circling again trying to talk sh*t about him being injury prone even though he was our best DLman vs Tampa and hasn't missed a single meaningful game yet.

Sure there are times when players under perform early and never break out but IMO before you judge a player one way or another you should see them for a good 3 years.

I don't think most of the legitimate criticism is about trashing Solomon Thomas. I think its about trashing the decision to draft him #3 and our use of him since then not being remotely close to what you want from 3rd overall pick.

You can't treat all criticism as equal without exerting any effort to identify the nuances and differences between meme criticism, stupid opinions, and well-thought critiques.

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by genus49:
The point was too many people around these parts are so quick to trash players early in their careers instead of just letting them play and showing what they can do.

How many people were calling for Vance McDonald to be cut/traded?
We can pretty much go down the list for any player who didn't play great out of the gate...hell go look at the Bosa thread and with him missing 2 practices people are already circling again trying to talk sh*t about him being injury prone even though he was our best DLman vs Tampa and hasn't missed a single meaningful game yet.

Sure there are times when players under perform early and never break out but IMO before you judge a player one way or another you should see them for a good 3 years.

I don't think most of the legitimate criticism is about trashing Solomon Thomas. I think its about trashing the decision to draft him #3 and our use of him since then not being remotely close to what you want from 3rd overall pick.

You can't treat all criticism as equal without exerting any effort to identify the nuances and differences between meme criticism, stupid opinions, and well-thought critiques.

If you think that then you haven't looked in this thread enough lol. Some criticisms are legit and others seem to come in here to just call the kid a bust or something without any legit discussion/criticism. He's not showing up in the box score and that's enough for them.

Hell even when he's played well some people act otherwise or play the "he didn't beat anyone good". It happens a lot with injured players too...if they're getting hurt then they automatically suck and even when there are no salary cap implications they call for us to cut those players instead of seeing if they can stay healthy and show their talent.

I don't like using hindsight anyways, it's not going to change anything. I care about what this team does now and in the future.

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

I don't think most of the legitimate criticism is about trashing Solomon Thomas. I think its about trashing the decision to draft him #3 and our use of him since then not being remotely close to what you want from 3rd overall pick.

You can't treat all criticism as equal without exerting any effort to identify the nuances and differences between meme criticism, stupid opinions, and well-thought critiques.

Those are few and far between on this forum

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by genus49:

The point was too many people around these parts are so quick to trash players early in their careers instead of just letting them play and showing what they can do.

How many people were calling for Vance McDonald to be cut/traded?
We can pretty much go down the list for any player who didn't play great out of the gate...hell go look at the Bosa thread and with him missing 2 practices people are already circling again trying to talk sh*t about him being injury prone even though he was our best DLman vs Tampa and hasn't missed a single meaningful game yet.

Sure there are times when players under perform early and never break out but IMO before you judge a player one way or another you should see them for a good 3 years.

I don't think most of the legitimate criticism is about trashing Solomon Thomas. I think its about trashing the decision to draft him #3 and our use of him since then not being remotely close to what you want from 3rd overall pick.

You can't treat all criticism as equal without exerting any effort to identify the nuances and differences between meme criticism, stupid opinions, and well-thought critiques.

I think pretty much everyone will agree that the lack of production overall would pretty well indicate at this point he was not worth the #3 pick. I don't see many arguing against that now. However, what some of us are currently arguing is that while the chances don't look great for him ever living up to that, there is still belief he could be an impactful player to some extent.

So, I think that's really the only thing I'm trying to get at with my previous posts. Forget the whole "play like a #3 pick" thing, because most of us will admit we don't see that happening. There's a case to made for not totally giving up on him playing like a 1st rounder (it's happened with many players before who started out rough), but obviously seems slim at the moment. But at this point, my hope is he can at least be an AA-like player who does a solid job most of the time.

Jury's still out. We'll see how the year goes.

Originally posted by slowriot:

Kevin Lynch‏ @klynch49 16s16 seconds agoMore

He's much more of an athlete than Alabama's Jonathan Allen, who's more of a technician. You can't argue with that pick. #49ers

How is Jonathan Allen doing theses days..

The easy b******t test is just to simply ask if the Rams Hawks or Cards drafted him at #3 and he had the exact same production he has had with us what would 99% of us call him? Only the 1% that had a draft crush on the guy would still be holding out hope. As you can she the guys in thread still holding out hope were all in favor with drafting him to begin with. This isn't that hard to decipher. But we all now know the reality.

Originally posted by CardinalGold:

Originally posted by cciowa:
You would think lynch the dc. whoever drafted him and is in charge of his playing time would see that. i give thomas s**t. but actually the biggest s**t needs to be dumped on lynch and dc and yes kyle for not having a clue what to do with him on the day he was drafted. and as we go along. they still have no clue what to do with him

If I recall correctly they had a plan for Solomon Thomas and it was playing him at the edge. The fault with decision makers is in (1) making that incorrect projection (2) not having a fallback plan of being able to play him at another position, presumably his natural position, due to other personnel that had been drafted just prior.

Once they saw he couldn't cut it at edge they made things worse by allowing his trade value to fall by keeping there rather than showcase some strengths by giving game snaps inside. Now, maybe he is also not good inside but whether or not he is good there is the only remaining debate on this board.

All around the travesty falls on the decision making process which I assume lands with Lynch as GM. Such a shame to own the second overall pick in a draft and come away with only this from that pick.

Except they DIDN'T see him as an edge. The coaches have repeatedly said they saw him as an inside rusher who will affect games rushing from the inside.

There's no coach speak in that, because they were just being asked about how they planned to use him. They weren't being asked how good he was, etc.

Lynch, Shanahan, and even Saleh said they viewed him as an inside pass rusher.

And then they gave him 5 snaps per game rushing the QB inside.