Solomon Thomas, DT

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

While Thomas hasn't produced as the team has hoped I just can't call him a bust, or even blame him for it. For starters, the main problem is that we should have never drafted him in the first place. To be sure, I think he WAS worth a top 5 pick. But WE should not have drafted him. Since the day he was drafted I have been saying that we DID NOT need another interior D-linemen drafted in the 1st round. That was a poor use of draft resources as that position was - and still is - a position of strength for us.

But to compound the poor choice of draft capital was the reason we drafted him. We drafted Thomas to be an EDGE rusher - the LEO - when there was NOTHING in his playing time at Stanford that would suggest that he would remotely be successful as an EDGE rusher, in any scheme in the NFL. This point is reinforced whenever Thomas is played on the inside he's pretty dominant.

So yes, he IS being played out of position!! That is painfully clear. I get so frustrated whenever I see him put on the edge only to see him get stonewalled or little pressure. But I cannot put too much blame on him as the man was mis-drafted and mal-purposed. As I said then, if you need an edge rusher you draft an edge rusher, or sign one off the street, or mark that to the game if neither opportunity presents itself. You don't "force a square peg in a round hole" by trying to shoehorn a player into a position that don't suite his abilities. As a coach myself I can tell you that's coaching 101. But that's what we did with Thomas, and predictably it hasn't worked out, nor will it.

People need to understand that while Thomas has disappointed he wasn't exactly put into the best position to succeed as a 49ers. And that's a real shame because he's supremely talented as an interior D-linemen. Thomas is a supreme, shinning example of why YOU DON'T DRAFT BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE!!!! Bottom line, Thomas should have never been drafted by us. We should have traded out of that pick. Now, we've wasted years trying to develop him into a player he never had the natural ability for, and we STILL had to spend another high top on a real EDGE rusher.

So I won't label him a bust and I think it's unfair for fans to label him a bust as well.

Solomon hasn't looked dominant in the NFL at any position. It was a pick that should've never happened. We already had plenty of defensive linemen. He got picked because our rookie GM liked him on a personal level. He never showed anything special to make me think he was anything special. He was an undersized interior lineman winning in college due to superior physical ability, not technique. We didn't need him then, and judging by his snap count last week, we still don't. I'm all for him playing inside on nickle just to see if hes any good at all when hes just cut loose on the quarterback. To my recollection, hes only had one decent game for us, and that was against the redskins. Our only hope for him is that he's one of those slow developers like Armstead, who really didn't contribute much his first couple of years.

You need to stop this crap. You honestly think a new GM/HC would select a player 2/3 overall because they like him personally but don't think that he's super talented?

You didn't like him...who are you? Virtually every draft person who covers it for a living had Thomas in their top 5. You won't find a grade lower than a B+ for our round 1 grades that year and the only ones that didn't give an A were concerned about Foster not Thomas.

49ers weren't the only team who liked Thomas. So let's not make chit up and change history.

Originally posted by RishikeshA:

The last game of Solomon Thomas' college career against North Carolina and Mitch Trubisky made some of us think he was the next Aaron Donald. To whiff on the third overall pick someone has to be held accountable.

Why? And what does "being held accountable" even mean?

Maybe they've already held themselves accountable and moved on?

They're probably disappointed it hasn't work, just like the fans are, but what are they supposed to do except move on and find better players (which they have been).

Should they give up now because a pick from three years ago didn't turn out great?

I'm really just not sure what arbitrary outcome we're assigning to "being held accountable" for a miss on the 3rd overall pick.

Solomon has to stop complaining about reps - he's a backup now.

Originally posted by mayo49:
Solomon has to stop complaining about reps - he's a backup now.

Pretty sure Solomon hasn't said a peep about his snap count. The only people b***hing in here about his snap count are the fans. Either wanting him to get more or others who are sticking a fork in him.

And personally I'm fine with him being a backup...as long as that means he's getting pass rush snaps INSIDE. That has not happened yet and that's why it drives me crazy.

Originally posted by JaggedJ:

Originally posted by RishikeshA:
The last game of Solomon Thomas' college career against North Carolina and Mitch Trubisky made some of us think he was the next Aaron Donald. To whiff on the third overall pick someone has to be held accountable.

Why? And what does "being held accountable" even mean?

Maybe they've already held themselves accountable and moved on?

They're probably disappointed it hasn't work, just like the fans are, but what are they supposed to do except move on and find better players (which they have been).

Should they give up now because a pick from three years ago didn't turn out great?

I'm really just not sure what arbitrary outcome we're assigning to "being held accountable" for a miss on the 3rd overall pick.

Well personally what I think they should do is at least let the kid play inside on obvious pass downs. That's really WHY he shot up the draft boards is his play inside and his pass rush ability and athletic ability.

Playing him on the edge and you're pretty much getting a decent run stopper but that's it. Certainly not someone you draft with #3 overall. Maybe they've seen enough and I personally need to get over it but it's just shocking to me that a kid with that college tape, the work ethic that he has and the athletic ability that he has that there isn't something there worth trying to revive.

Last year and everything that happened with his sister IMO should be a mulligan. Just a terrible situation for a kid who is very cerebral. Let's be honest if you're depressed enough to seriously consider suicide...how good are you at your job? Is it a coincidence that when he finally got more playing time inside last year and got counseling that he suddenly looked much better? People are so quick to trash the guy but he was a huge reason we beat Seattle last year.

I just really don't get why they're not helping him at all given the high draft pick, the personal tragedy. One thing is certain if we keep giving him limited snaps and most of those snaps being on the outside...may as well trade him cuz he'll give us nothing that others can't provide off the street.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by mayo49:
Solomon has to stop complaining about reps - he's a backup now.

Pretty sure Solomon hasn't said a peep about his snap count. The only people b***hing in here about his snap count are the fans. Either wanting him to get more or others who are sticking a fork in him.

And personally I'm fine with him being a backup...as long as that means he's getting pass rush snaps INSIDE. That has not happened yet and that's why it drives me crazy.

Yeah, I think he's future is as a backup. Just hope he doesn't get discouraged.

Originally posted by genus49:

Well personally what I think they should do is at least let the kid play inside on obvious pass downs. That's really WHY he shot up the draft boards is his play inside and his pass rush ability and athletic ability.

Playing him on the edge and you're pretty much getting a decent run stopper but that's it. Certainly not someone you draft with #3 overall. Maybe they've seen enough and I personally need to get over it but it's just shocking to me that a kid with that college tape, the work ethic that he has and the athletic ability that he has that there isn't something there worth trying to revive.

Last year and everything that happened with his sister IMO should be a mulligan. Just a terrible situation for a kid who is very cerebral. Let's be honest if you're depressed enough to seriously consider suicide...how good are you at your job? Is it a coincidence that when he finally got more playing time inside last year and got counseling that he suddenly looked much better? People are so quick to trash the guy but he was a huge reason we beat Seattle last year.

I just really don't get why they're not helping him at all given the high draft pick, the personal tragedy. One thing is certain if we keep giving him limited snaps and most of those snaps being on the outside...may as well trade him cuz he'll give us nothing that others can't provide off the street.

I think this is it. I was a big supporter of solly and wanting to see what he can do, even when everyone started s**tting on him. First we thought it was just Saleh doing dumb s**t. But remember they said new D line coach was gonna watch his tape and decide what position best fits him? Apparently it's bench player.

His career isn't over yet and maybe he could be a good player some day. But at this point, I rather have the best players out there so we could win.

Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:

Originally posted by genus49:
Well personally what I think they should do is at least let the kid play inside on obvious pass downs. That's really WHY he shot up the draft boards is his play inside and his pass rush ability and athletic ability.

Playing him on the edge and you're pretty much getting a decent run stopper but that's it. Certainly not someone you draft with #3 overall. Maybe they've seen enough and I personally need to get over it but it's just shocking to me that a kid with that college tape, the work ethic that he has and the athletic ability that he has that there isn't something there worth trying to revive.

Last year and everything that happened with his sister IMO should be a mulligan. Just a terrible situation for a kid who is very cerebral. Let's be honest if you're depressed enough to seriously consider suicide...how good are you at your job? Is it a coincidence that when he finally got more playing time inside last year and got counseling that he suddenly looked much better? People are so quick to trash the guy but he was a huge reason we beat Seattle last year.

I just really don't get why they're not helping him at all given the high draft pick, the personal tragedy. One thing is certain if we keep giving him limited snaps and most of those snaps being on the outside...may as well trade him cuz he'll give us nothing that others can't provide off the street.

I think this is it. I was a big supporter of solly and wanting to see what he can do, even when everyone started s**tting on him. First we thought it was just Saleh doing dumb s**t. But remember they said new D line coach was gonna watch his tape and decide what position best fits him? Apparently it's bench player.

His career isn't over yet and maybe he could be a good player some day. But at this point, I rather have the best players out there so we could win.

He can still be a solid backup player with us and have a nice career.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
While Thomas hasn't produced as the team has hoped I just can't call him a bust, or even blame him for it. For starters, the main problem is that we should have never drafted him in the first place. To be sure, I think he WAS worth a top 5 pick. But WE should not have drafted him. Since the day he was drafted I have been saying that we DID NOT need another interior D-linemen drafted in the 1st round. That was a poor use of draft resources as that position was - and still is - a position of strength for us.

But to compound the poor choice of draft capital was the reason we drafted him. We drafted Thomas to be an EDGE rusher - the LEO - when there was NOTHING in his playing time at Stanford that would suggest that he would remotely be successful as an EDGE rusher, in any scheme in the NFL. This point is reinforced whenever Thomas is played on the inside he's pretty dominant.

So yes, he IS being played out of position!! That is painfully clear. I get so frustrated whenever I see him put on the edge only to see him get stonewalled or little pressure. But I cannot put too much blame on him as the man was mis-drafted and mal-purposed. As I said then, if you need an edge rusher you draft an edge rusher, or sign one off the street, or mark that to the game if neither opportunity presents itself. You don't "force a square peg in a round hole" by trying to shoehorn a player into a position that don't suite his abilities. As a coach myself I can tell you that's coaching 101. But that's what we did with Thomas, and predictably it hasn't worked out, nor will it.

People need to understand that while Thomas has disappointed he wasn't exactly put into the best position to succeed as a 49ers. And that's a real shame because he's supremely talented as an interior D-linemen. Thomas is a supreme, shinning example of why YOU DON'T DRAFT BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE!!!! Bottom line, Thomas should have never been drafted by us. We should have traded out of that pick. Now, we've wasted years trying to develop him into a player he never had the natural ability for, and we STILL had to spend another high top on a real EDGE rusher.

So I won't label him a bust and I think it's unfair for fans to label him a bust as well.

Solomon hasn't looked dominant in the NFL at any position. It was a pick that should've never happened. We already had plenty of defensive linemen. He got picked because our rookie GM liked him on a personal level. He never showed anything special to make me think he was anything special. He was an undersized interior lineman winning in college due to superior physical ability, not technique. We didn't need him then, and judging by his snap count last week, we still don't. I'm all for him playing inside on nickle just to see if hes any good at all when hes just cut loose on the quarterback. To my recollection, hes only had one decent game for us, and that was against the redskins. Our only hope for him is that he's one of those slow developers like Armstead, who really didn't contribute much his first couple of years.

We disagree on his effectiveness on the inside. I thought he was pretty dominant at Stanford, and with us when he was placed inside. But I won't deny that what I saw could be based on his raw physical abilities rather than skills. But I maintain that we just haven't seen him in his natural position long enough to be able to make a definitive judgement of the guy. He just wasn't drafted with the best plan in mind.

But we do agree that we should have NEVER drafted him in the first place, and I am on record of being in full disagreement with his selection as early as the day of his draft. We had no earthly business drafting high at his position, didn't think that we would draft him, and I was really upset when we did. I understand that we had a real need of an edge rusher. But it was a down year for edge rushers in 2017, which is why we should have traded out the pick.

Now, I don't think he's a slow developer like AA. Again, Thomas just wasn't drafted with the best of plans in mind, so his talents were wasted due to a then inexperienced GM. And that has drastically stunted his development. Trust me, when he's on a team that'll use him in his more natural inside position consistently he's gonna thrive.

im going to be pissed if thomas goes to another team and that team sticks him only in the inside and he plays well. no matter how many times we hear saleh say hes going to play his natural position and time and time again i see him on the outside or covering rbs smh

Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
im going to be pissed if thomas goes to another team and that team sticks him only in the inside and he plays well. no matter how many times we hear saleh say hes going to play his natural position and time and time again i see him on the outside or covering rbs smh

yeah if this was always the intended role for ST it was a horrible draft pick. His skill set is that of a 3-tech beating guards. Is what it is at this point.

ST can flat RUN. He circled around from the opposite side and was pacing the cornerback to bock on that interception!

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
im going to be pissed if thomas goes to another team and that team sticks him only in the inside and he plays well. no matter how many times we hear saleh say hes going to play his natural position and time and time again i see him on the outside or covering rbs smh

yeah if this was always the intended role for ST it was a horrible draft pick. His skill set is that of a 3-tech beating guards. Is what it is at this point.

amazing how they draft moore play him at cb a position he didnt play in college and he cant see the field. then they play him at his natural position, the position that made him a 3rd round pick and not only does he start making plays all TC but then plays well week 1. why the hell cant they do that with the 3rd overall pick?

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
While Thomas hasn't produced as the team has hoped I just can't call him a bust, or even blame him for it. For starters, the main problem is that we should have never drafted him in the first place. To be sure, I think he WAS worth a top 5 pick. But WE should not have drafted him. Since the day he was drafted I have been saying that we DID NOT need another interior D-linemen drafted in the 1st round. That was a poor use of draft resources as that position was - and still is - a position of strength for us.

But to compound the poor choice of draft capital was the reason we drafted him. We drafted Thomas to be an EDGE rusher - the LEO - when there was NOTHING in his playing time at Stanford that would suggest that he would remotely be successful as an EDGE rusher, in any scheme in the NFL. This point is reinforced whenever Thomas is played on the inside he's pretty dominant.

So yes, he IS being played out of position!! That is painfully clear. I get so frustrated whenever I see him put on the edge only to see him get stonewalled or little pressure. But I cannot put too much blame on him as the man was mis-drafted and mal-purposed. As I said then, if you need an edge rusher you draft an edge rusher, or sign one off the street, or mark that to the game if neither opportunity presents itself. You don't "force a square peg in a round hole" by trying to shoehorn a player into a position that don't suite his abilities. As a coach myself I can tell you that's coaching 101. But that's what we did with Thomas, and predictably it hasn't worked out, nor will it.

People need to understand that while Thomas has disappointed he wasn't exactly put into the best position to succeed as a 49ers. And that's a real shame because he's supremely talented as an interior D-linemen. Thomas is a supreme, shinning example of why YOU DON'T DRAFT BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE!!!! Bottom line, Thomas should have never been drafted by us. We should have traded out of that pick. Now, we've wasted years trying to develop him into a player he never had the natural ability for, and we STILL had to spend another high top on a real EDGE rusher.

So I won't label him a bust and I think it's unfair for fans to label him a bust as well.

Solomon hasn't looked dominant in the NFL at any position. It was a pick that should've never happened. We already had plenty of defensive linemen. He got picked because our rookie GM liked him on a personal level. He never showed anything special to make me think he was anything special. He was an undersized interior lineman winning in college due to superior physical ability, not technique. We didn't need him then, and judging by his snap count last week, we still don't. I'm all for him playing inside on nickle just to see if hes any good at all when hes just cut loose on the quarterback. To my recollection, hes only had one decent game for us, and that was against the redskins. Our only hope for him is that he's one of those slow developers like Armstead, who really didn't contribute much his first couple of years.

You need to stop this crap. You honestly think a new GM/HC would select a player 2/3 overall because they like him personally but don't think that he's super talented?

You didn't like him...who are you? Virtually every draft person who covers it for a living had Thomas in their top 5. You won't find a grade lower than a B+ for our round 1 grades that year and the only ones that didn't give an A were concerned about Foster not Thomas.

49ers weren't the only team who liked Thomas. So let's not make chit up and change history.

You are right, Thomas was, and I think still is, a top 5 draft pick. The problem is that we didn't need him and should have never drafted him. Thomas showed real dominance on the inside at Stanford and with us when he was placed inside. But we drafted him to be an EDGE rusher. That was a momentous mistake by Lynch. Now, whether he did so because he just liked him none of us can really speak to. We just don't know. But what is painfully obvious is that he's not an EDGE rusher, and every time I see him placed on the EDGE it's painful for me to watch him get stonewalled consistently. So for me that's not his fault. He didn't make the decision to play him out of position.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Just because others would have drafted Solly early, doesnt make him not a bust.

I argue about this all the time. Jamarcus Russell was the consensus #1 overall pick that year. That doesnt mean he wasnt a bust and the Raiders didnt make the wrong pick simply because everyone else would have drafted him there too.

That's not the point. The point is that it doesn't do any good to keep complaining about a bad pick, a bad call or a bad play. They're over and done so let's move on. That's what the teams do and what the players do. Better to spend time looking forward to what we need to improve or how we can improve a game plan. At least these are things that CAN happen as opposed to things you can't change. You can spend the rest of your life complaining about what should have happened and it won't do any good. All it does is make you bitter.

So you want to tell other fans what we can and cannot say about a #3 overall bust? This is a fan forum, it's not gonna be unicorns and butterflies all the time.

The guy wasn't picked in the 3rd round he was picked #3 overall! There will be a lot to live up to if a player is picked there and a lot of chatter if he's not living up to it!

In choosing ST we passed on Patrick Mahomes, last years MVP! Even the York's don't have enough smoke & mirrors to cover that up...

Should we go all the way back to Tom Brady and pretend we should've drafted him in the first round that draft too?

We weren't the only ones to pass on Mahomes. One thing that was however the case pretty much across the board with anyone covering the draft was that Solomon Thomas was a much higher regarded prospect than Mahomes.

Kyle felt it was better to improve the defense which was one of the worst in league HISTORY and to go with the QB he knew could execute his system in Kirk Cousins.

Mahomes went into a perfect situation for him and got to sit back and learn without being rushed out there. The roster he's playing with now is 1000 times better than what we would've had to ask him to lead in 2017. There is absolutely 0 way to know if he would've risen up to the challenge of not only grasping Kyle's system but playing well with who we had out there.

Very possible he would've been killed back there and possibly had his confidence completely shot to hell which has happened with many great QB prospects who went to crap teams.

Need to stop the whole "should've had Mahomes" crap. You can go back to pretty much every draft and play the "should've game"

So you think it is ok to miss on a generational talent for the likes of S. Thomas because everyone else said so? You think our guys should make draft selections based on newspaper clippings? We have a scouting department that does nothing but scout players for a living. Then we have college tape, and scouting combine complete with interviews. The only thing a NFL franchise doesn't have is a crystal ball when it comes to drafting.

You said we weren't the only team to pass on Mahomes, we were however the only team with a so called "QB Guru" and in dire need of a QB with the #2 overall pick at the time that passed on him. It wasn't Kirk Cousins, it was Brian Hoyer that we had sitting in the starting QB seat at the time.

So now Mahomes is a generational talent who wasn't even talked about by most people as a first round QB in that draft? Wasn't even the first QB drafted?

The term generational talent gets thrown around these parts WAY too much it seems.

Mahomes had a huge arm but there were a lot of question marks about his career path in the NFL. He went to about the best situation for him with a stacked offense which only got better from his rookie year(he didn't exactly light the world on fire week 17 as a rookie) to his first starting season.

It wasn't just us passing on Mahomes. If your claim is he's a generational talent then why did the following teams pass on him?

Browns - I don't care how good Garrett was as a prospect they had a huge need at QB and haven't had a decent one since they came back into the league.
Chicago - clearly they loved Trubisky or they wouldn't have traded up so much to move 1 spot. How could they pass on a generational talent like Mahomes if it was that obvious?
Jacksonville - Blake Bortles was trash up to that point.
New York Jets - no QB worth a damn
Cincinnati - Andy Dalton....meh, certainly not worth passing up on a generational QB talent and yet they did
Buffalo - a team with no QB worth a damn since Jim Kelly, the team who traded with KC so they could take Mahomes.

So at least 6 teams, 5 if you think Dalton is somehow worth building your franchise around passed on this generational talent at QB...

Is it possible that more teams felt Mahomes was a quiestion mark and not a generational talent?

And our team was also the only one to pass on Mahomes with the clear plan to add Kirk Cousins for no draft capital and Hoyer was to be the stop gap.

Shanahan didn't see enough of what he likes in Mahomes. You can use hindsight and pretend that was a dumb decision but fact is you have no idea how Mahomes would've done in Kyle's scheme with our roster. I doubt VERY highly that Mahomes would be anywhere near the QB he is on that KC team loaded with talent.

So now Mahomes is a system QB game manager that just so happened to throw for over 5k yards and won the MVP last season, what a fluke...

Come 'on man!

Point to where I said that?

You can't call someone a generational talent when nobody had him listed that way in the draft. He had his fans but pretending he was getting that type of label is complete revisionist history.

Was Tom Brady a generational talent? Was Joe Montana?

Hindsight those guys should've all been drafted #1 overall but at the time pretending that our GMs or other teams GMs were simply not doing their job is asinine.

But if you want to go there a less talented Chiefs team made Alex Smith look like an All Pro Mahomes' rookie year. In fact he was the best deep ball passer in the NFL that year, let that one sink in.

Maybe just maybe Mahomes is a really good QB who is in the perfect system for his strengths and has a stacked offense around him? He would not have that here.

Not many teams who needed a qb passed on Mahomes and he was a top 10 pick.

How many non-all time great qbs have thrown for 5000 yards and 50 TDs.
Calling him just good is ridiculous, he is elite.
Alex Smith looked like a complete scrub in '17 compared to Mahomes in '18.