49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by Niners816:
Even with all the injuries this team is 9-7 with QBs not named Beathard or Hoyer over the first 2 years.

This is a very good point.

Obviously couldn't have known about Mullens in year 1, but if we knew last year he was the better backup QB, maybe the 49ers threaten to win 7-8 games instead of 4.

Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:

If you frequented seahawks.net a few years back they would often talk about how Carroll and Schneider had to rebuild the team from 2010 and 2011 to get the team that started to become strong in 2012. I wasn't following the Hawks that closely back then but I believe their roster in February 2010 must have been unrecognizable compared to their SB team.

That's the good news about the modern NFL, you can change a team entirely in about 3 off seasons, 2 if you're really lucky.

Niners could have been seen as a real team last year, but now we can only hope that getting Bosa and Samuel will offset 13 more games with Jimmy to some extent.

If they didn't luck into Russell Wilson in the 3rd round, Carroll is probably chewing gum & coaching in the pac-12 yrs ago.

Originally posted by RTFirefly:
I just remember Harbs making Michael Robinson the very last cut of preseason, and the Seahawks swooping into waivers to grab him and our playbook.

Geez that was pre-Harbaugh. I'm losing my mind.

Originally posted by SoCold:
Kyle is a young unproven HC. Has a young unproven DC and GM.

Look at Sean Mcvay. He's got the advantage of Wade who's been coaching longer than Kyle and Sean have been alive.

Maybe if things don't turn around this season Kyle needs an OG type DC to help him out?

Perhaps.

Kyle not having a proven DC right now is what gives me pause about considering the possibility that the 49ers might still underachieve this year. With a top 10 DC, I'd have far less concerns. However, I'm hoping all these pass rushers will keep Saleh producing.

We beat Wilson without a mean rush. Now hopefully we'll crush him and it won't be so close.....

Originally posted by KittleSkittle:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
so hilarious that harbaugh is a god to a lot of ex 49er fans. he for sure accomplished a lot while he was here. but you guys have zero awareness to what his weaknesses are, or you do know and you're just being dishonest about it.

It's all relative. Harbaugh was far from perfect obviously, but his time here was also the only time we were relevant as a franchise in the last almost 20 years. I don't get why other niner fans try to tear him down other than out of a desire to prop up whomever the current coach is. Even our owner tried to sell the idea that Tomsula would be a better HC.

we saw the dropoff with play on the field in his last year and most of his draft picks were garbage. he did an amazing job in the 3 year span, and he deserves credit for that.

having said that, i'm really excited about what the future holds for what we have now in kyle and john. They actually had to build this team which harbaugh didn't need to. the circumstances are much different. i don't need to bash harbaugh to prop up kyle and john.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I don't watch a lot of college ball, but I think Harbaugh fielded some pretty strong defenses, when he was at Stanford with Luck as his QB. Same in Michigan, and I believe Michigan had some good defensive graduates coming into the NFL this year from Harbaugh's program. So I think Harbaugh is underrated as a defensive coach.

A part of being a good coach is getting good coaches, and Fangio is one of the best there is, and being able to get him to come to Stanford was more on Harbaugh's influence than I think anything else. Unfortunately he couldn't get any decent coaches for his offense - David Shaw stayed at Stanford. If David came with him, maybe it would have been different offensively.

I still thing Harbaugh can do well in the NFL, but he really has to change his offensive philosophy. I'm hoping this year he will, he's hired some spread offense guy to run his offense. We'll see where that goes. But really I think he's a great special teams and defensive coach, and his main weakness is offense, Ironically. If he was more like Sean Peyton, offensively, I think he could give Bill Belicheat a run for his money.

Harbs had Vic as his DC and has recruited top talent on defense in college...that's not the same as saying he's a good defensive coach imo.

I totally agree one of the most important things a HC can do is surround himself with good coaches, Harbs is very good at this.

I forgot to add that BB had five yrs to make s**t work in Cleveland and had one of the craziest staffs. He only had one winning season.

If you ever get a chance you'll be amazing with it "A Football Life: Cleveland '95"

https://www.google.com/amp/nflfilms.nfl.com/2012/10/03/cleveland-95-where-are-they-now/amp/

Well, a lot of coaching on defense *is* getting talent. X's and O's from the defensive standpoint isn't as involved as on offense.

Cleveland ownership has a lot to do with Cleveland Browns being a bottom feeder. Bellicheat learned first hand how culture affects performance (specially from a doofus owner who's primary goal is politics vs winning games), I'll just say *Bernie Kosar* and leave it at that. What's impressive about Bellicheat's Cleveland browns coachs was the quality, for example - his DC in Nick Saban. Nuff Said. That was a talented bunch, for sure.

Jim Harbaugh is still relatively young for a head coach. Walsh was 47 when he started coaching the 49ers. Assuming Harbaugh can fix his offense, I think he has the talent to win a championship or two in the NFL. But between Harbaugh and Kyle, I'll have to go with Kyle simply because his upside I think is far higher than Harbaugh's. I think Kyle has the chops to be a good defensive coach and I think it's harder being a good defensive coach and moving to offense, than the other way around. Getting Bosa is **HUGE** and I think from here on in, Kyle's defense has the potential to rival Harbaugh's defenses.

I don't want to offend anyone but as I'm reading this thread, my dog is gnawing away at an old soup bone. It started out with a little flesh meat still on it and that got chewed up and then the marrow and now he's just gnawing on the bone because that's all that's left to gnaw on and he feels like gnawing. A lot of these threads sorta seem like that's pretty much where we're at - gnawing on old bones because gnawing on old bones feels a lot better than not gnawing at all.

We really need some fresh meat. How long till pads go on? Weeks? Need to dig up some more old bones that are buried around here somewhere.

Originally posted by 49erphan:

I don't want to offend anyone but as I'm reading this thread, my dog is gnawing away at an old soup bone. It started out with a little flesh meat still on it and that got chewed up and then the marrow and now he's just gnawing on the bone because that's all that's left to gnaw on and he feels like gnawing. A lot of these threads sorta seem like that's pretty much where we're at - gnawing on old bones because gnawing on old bones feels a lot better than not gnawing at all.

We really need some fresh meat. How long till pads go on? Weeks? Need to dig up some more old bones that are buried around here somewhere.

You're right, doggone it!

Originally posted by WestCoastForever:

Originally posted by 49erphan:

I don't want to offend anyone but as I'm reading this thread, my dog is gnawing away at an old soup bone. It started out with a little flesh meat still on it and that got chewed up and then the marrow and now he's just gnawing on the bone because that's all that's left to gnaw on and he feels like gnawing. A lot of these threads sorta seem like that's pretty much where we're at - gnawing on old bones because gnawing on old bones feels a lot better than not gnawing at all.

We really need some fresh meat. How long till pads go on? Weeks? Need to dig up some more old bones that are buried around here somewhere.

You're right, doggone it!

If you want fresh meat, go to the Dat Ass thread.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Well, a lot of coaching on defense *is* getting talent. X's and O's from the defensive standpoint isn't as involved as on offense.

Cleveland ownership has a lot to do with Cleveland Browns being a bottom feeder. Bellicheat learned first hand how culture affects performance (specially from a doofus owner who's primary goal is politics vs winning games), I'll just say *Bernie Kosar* and leave it at that. What's impressive about Bellicheat's Cleveland browns coachs was the quality, for example - his DC in Nick Saban. Nuff Said. That was a talented bunch, for sure.

Jim Harbaugh is still relatively young for a head coach. Walsh was 47 when he started coaching the 49ers. Assuming Harbaugh can fix his offense, I think he has the talent to win a championship or two in the NFL. But between Harbaugh and Kyle, I'll have to go with Kyle simply because his upside I think is far higher than Harbaugh's. I think Kyle has the chops to be a good defensive coach and I think it's harder being a good defensive coach and moving to offense, than the other way around. Getting Bosa is **HUGE** and I think from here on in, Kyle's defense has the potential to rival Harbaugh's defenses.

Yeah ownership is massive along with being able to have the talent to make your system go. No better example than that Cleveland team.

Sure Harbs is still young and I do think he's a good coach....I have yet to see any "change" to his system especially on offense. IMO he doesn't seem like a guy who's willing to make all these adjustments. Like I said the dude been wearing the same damn outfit for 10 yrs lol. He's a bit stubborn if you ask me.

We haven't seen much success with kyle but we've seen glimpses of what this team could be....just need healthy guys and dudes need more snaps.

Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:

Originally posted by SoCold:
Kyle is a young unproven HC. Has a young unproven DC and GM.

Look at Sean Mcvay. He's got the advantage of Wade who's been coaching longer than Kyle and Sean have been alive.

Maybe if things don't turn around this season Kyle needs an OG type DC to help him out?

Perhaps.

Kyle not having a proven DC right now is what gives me pause about considering the possibility that the 49ers might still underachieve this year. With a top 10 DC, I'd have far less concerns. However, I'm hoping all these pass rushers will keep Saleh producing.

We beat Wilson without a mean rush. Now hopefully we'll crush him and it won't be so close.....

I really hope the pass rush additions on D give us the results we all want even with Saleh. But I've seen a couple of people bring up Harbaugh being a great defensive coach...

Harbaugh was brought in here for his offensive system and being the so called QB whisperer. One of the things Harbaugh did great was bring in the right guys on defense - Vic Fangio was the key to that puzzle(very curious how his loss affects Chicago) finding the right DC doesn't make someone a great defensive coach.

Sean McVay is not a great defensive coach because he was able to get Wade Phillips.

People seem to forget that Saleh was not Kyle's first choice. Unfortunately for us the situation was one that saw us hiring staff late in the game. if I recall correctly Saleh was the 3rd option but I could be wrong on that.

I was hoping for a new DC myself this year but I do understand the thought process behind not making that type of change when the personnel really hasn't been there and I'm very hopeful that the additions and subtractions that we made on the defensive coaching side of the ball, along with the personnel additions will see us take a MAJOR jump forward on that side of the ball.

Where I will make a comparison between Kyle and Harbaugh is I trust Kyle's X's and O's much more. Harbaugh obviously is very proficient there as well as a former QB and HC but Kyle is on another level so even when it comes to the defense knowing how the offense can attack a D helps the D prepare better as a result.

So perfect world if you have the right staff behind you I like where we are with Kyle but he has to prove that if the talent is there that he can get that extra out of them that Harbaugh was great at doing.

There is certainly a question of whether Kyle's ideal team setup is a fit to win SBs. Harbaugh's ideal team setup is built for that...even if we didn't end up winning it in the end run. And my reasoning behind that is Kyle's teams are designed to be more athletic/smaller where Jim's teams were power, force your will on the other team. That's typically what you want to see in the playoffs.

I just hope that Kyle learned enough from the Atlanta loss that when we get back to the dance he ensures we walk away with a W to end the season.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:

Originally posted by SoCold:
Kyle is a young unproven HC. Has a young unproven DC and GM.

Look at Sean Mcvay. He's got the advantage of Wade who's been coaching longer than Kyle and Sean have been alive.

Maybe if things don't turn around this season Kyle needs an OG type DC to help him out?

Perhaps.

Kyle not having a proven DC right now is what gives me pause about considering the possibility that the 49ers might still underachieve this year. With a top 10 DC, I'd have far less concerns. However, I'm hoping all these pass rushers will keep Saleh producing.

We beat Wilson without a mean rush. Now hopefully we'll crush him and it won't be so close.....

I really hope the pass rush additions on D give us the results we all want even with Saleh. But I've seen a couple of people bring up Harbaugh being a great defensive coach...

Harbaugh was brought in here for his offensive system and being the so called QB whisperer. One of the things Harbaugh did great was bring in the right guys on defense - Vic Fangio was the key to that puzzle(very curious how his loss affects Chicago) finding the right DC doesn't make someone a great defensive coach.

Sean McVay is not a great defensive coach because he was able to get Wade Phillips.

People seem to forget that Saleh was not Kyle's first choice. Unfortunately for us the situation was one that saw us hiring staff late in the game. if I recall correctly Saleh was the 3rd option but I could be wrong on that.

I was hoping for a new DC myself this year but I do understand the thought process behind not making that type of change when the personnel really hasn't been there and I'm very hopeful that the additions and subtractions that we made on the defensive coaching side of the ball, along with the personnel additions will see us take a MAJOR jump forward on that side of the ball.

Where I will make a comparison between Kyle and Harbaugh is I trust Kyle's X's and O's much more. Harbaugh obviously is very proficient there as well as a former QB and HC but Kyle is on another level so even when it comes to the defense knowing how the offense can attack a D helps the D prepare better as a result.

So perfect world if you have the right staff behind you I like where we are with Kyle but he has to prove that if the talent is there that he can get that extra out of them that Harbaugh was great at doing.

There is certainly a question of whether Kyle's ideal team setup is a fit to win SBs. Harbaugh's ideal team setup is built for that...even if we didn't end up winning it in the end run. And my reasoning behind that is Kyle's teams are designed to be more athletic/smaller where Jim's teams were power, force your will on the other team. That's typically what you want to see in the playoffs.

I just hope that Kyle learned enough from the Atlanta loss that when we get back to the dance he ensures we walk away with a W to end the season.

Based on Kyle's history, I think it's a pretty safe bet that this offense will be top-10 in yards this year. What is interesting is that, historically, his points production usually lags behind his yardage production. Those Harbaugh/Roman offenses were the oppposite- much higher in points production but usually in the bottom half of the league in yardage. Because Kyle's offense can pile up yards quite easily, I'm not even expecting the points to match the yardage, but just, if we are a top-10 offense in yardage, can we be top-15 in points. If we are top-5 in yardage, can we be a top-10 offense in the points? Closing that gap, along with defensive improvement would be the biggest factors that will turn us into a team that can regularly compete with the top teams in the NFL.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:

Originally posted by SoCold:
Kyle is a young unproven HC. Has a young unproven DC and GM.

Look at Sean Mcvay. He's got the advantage of Wade who's been coaching longer than Kyle and Sean have been alive.

Maybe if things don't turn around this season Kyle needs an OG type DC to help him out?

Perhaps.

Kyle not having a proven DC right now is what gives me pause about considering the possibility that the 49ers might still underachieve this year. With a top 10 DC, I'd have far less concerns. However, I'm hoping all these pass rushers will keep Saleh producing.

We beat Wilson without a mean rush. Now hopefully we'll crush him and it won't be so close.....

I really hope the pass rush additions on D give us the results we all want even with Saleh. But I've seen a couple of people bring up Harbaugh being a great defensive coach...

Harbaugh was brought in here for his offensive system and being the so called QB whisperer. One of the things Harbaugh did great was bring in the right guys on defense - Vic Fangio was the key to that puzzle(very curious how his loss affects Chicago) finding the right DC doesn't make someone a great defensive coach.

Sean McVay is not a great defensive coach because he was able to get Wade Phillips.

People seem to forget that Saleh was not Kyle's first choice. Unfortunately for us the situation was one that saw us hiring staff late in the game. if I recall correctly Saleh was the 3rd option but I could be wrong on that.

I was hoping for a new DC myself this year but I do understand the thought process behind not making that type of change when the personnel really hasn't been there and I'm very hopeful that the additions and subtractions that we made on the defensive coaching side of the ball, along with the personnel additions will see us take a MAJOR jump forward on that side of the ball.

Where I will make a comparison between Kyle and Harbaugh is I trust Kyle's X's and O's much more. Harbaugh obviously is very proficient there as well as a former QB and HC but Kyle is on another level so even when it comes to the defense knowing how the offense can attack a D helps the D prepare better as a result.

So perfect world if you have the right staff behind you I like where we are with Kyle but he has to prove that if the talent is there that he can get that extra out of them that Harbaugh was great at doing.

There is certainly a question of whether Kyle's ideal team setup is a fit to win SBs. Harbaugh's ideal team setup is built for that...even if we didn't end up winning it in the end run. And my reasoning behind that is Kyle's teams are designed to be more athletic/smaller where Jim's teams were power, force your will on the other team. That's typically what you want to see in the playoffs.

I just hope that Kyle learned enough from the Atlanta loss that when we get back to the dance he ensures we walk away with a W to end the season.

Based on Kyle's history, I think it's a pretty safe bet that this offense will be top-10 in yards this year. What is interesting is that, historically, his points production usually lags behind his yardage production. Those Harbaugh/Roman offenses were the oppposite- much higher in points production but usually in the bottom half of the league in yardage. Because Kyle's offense can pile up yards quite easily, I'm not even expecting the points to match the yardage, but just, if we are a top-10 offense in yardage, can we be top-15 in points. If we are top-5 in yardage, can we be a top-10 offense in the points? Closing that gap, along with defensive improvement would be the biggest factors that will turn us into a team that can regularly compete with the top teams in the NFL.

I'm sure there is a correlation to defense as well. How many times has Kyle had a great defense to give the ball back to the offense more often than not?

Harbaugh years our defense was the best if not one of the best in the game so our offense got a lot of favorable looks on short drives.

Man I really hope Jimmy G is the real deal. Sometimes I'm scared he's going to be a bust and other times I get lost in the sauce and imagine him tearing it up.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Kyle is a young unproven HC. Has a young unproven DC and GM.

Look at Sean Mcvay. He's got the advantage of Wade who's been coaching longer than Kyle and Sean have been alive.

Maybe if things don't turn around this season Kyle needs an OG type DC to help him out?

Perhaps.

Kyle not having a proven DC right now is what gives me pause about considering the possibility that the 49ers might still underachieve this year. With a top 10 DC, I'd have far less concerns. However, I'm hoping all these pass rushers will keep Saleh producing.

We beat Wilson without a mean rush. Now hopefully we'll crush him and it won't be so close.....

I really hope the pass rush additions on D give us the results we all want even with Saleh. But I've seen a couple of people bring up Harbaugh being a great defensive coach...

Harbaugh was brought in here for his offensive system and being the so called QB whisperer. One of the things Harbaugh did great was bring in the right guys on defense - Vic Fangio was the key to that puzzle(very curious how his loss affects Chicago) finding the right DC doesn't make someone a great defensive coach.

Sean McVay is not a great defensive coach because he was able to get Wade Phillips.

People seem to forget that Saleh was not Kyle's first choice. Unfortunately for us the situation was one that saw us hiring staff late in the game. if I recall correctly Saleh was the 3rd option but I could be wrong on that.

I was hoping for a new DC myself this year but I do understand the thought process behind not making that type of change when the personnel really hasn't been there and I'm very hopeful that the additions and subtractions that we made on the defensive coaching side of the ball, along with the personnel additions will see us take a MAJOR jump forward on that side of the ball.

Where I will make a comparison between Kyle and Harbaugh is I trust Kyle's X's and O's much more. Harbaugh obviously is very proficient there as well as a former QB and HC but Kyle is on another level so even when it comes to the defense knowing how the offense can attack a D helps the D prepare better as a result.

So perfect world if you have the right staff behind you I like where we are with Kyle but he has to prove that if the talent is there that he can get that extra out of them that Harbaugh was great at doing.

There is certainly a question of whether Kyle's ideal team setup is a fit to win SBs. Harbaugh's ideal team setup is built for that...even if we didn't end up winning it in the end run. And my reasoning behind that is Kyle's teams are designed to be more athletic/smaller where Jim's teams were power, force your will on the other team. That's typically what you want to see in the playoffs.

I just hope that Kyle learned enough from the Atlanta loss that when we get back to the dance he ensures we walk away with a W to end the season.

Based on Kyle's history, I think it's a pretty safe bet that this offense will be top-10 in yards this year. What is interesting is that, historically, his points production usually lags behind his yardage production. Those Harbaugh/Roman offenses were the oppposite- much higher in points production but usually in the bottom half of the league in yardage. Because Kyle's offense can pile up yards quite easily, I'm not even expecting the points to match the yardage, but just, if we are a top-10 offense in yardage, can we be top-15 in points. If we are top-5 in yardage, can we be a top-10 offense in the points? Closing that gap, along with defensive improvement would be the biggest factors that will turn us into a team that can regularly compete with the top teams in the NFL.

I'm sure there is a correlation to defense as well. How many times has Kyle had a great defense to give the ball back to the offense more often than not?

Harbaugh years our defense was the best if not one of the best in the game so our offense got a lot of favorable looks on short drives.

Here's the defense rankings for the teams Kyle has called plays for:


As for points scored....I think the biggest factor is the quality of QB he's had (1 very good to great guy-Ryan and 1 very good to great season guy-RGIII....is put Schaub a notch below RGIII for quality of season). Also, he's never had the same starting QB in his offense for longer than 2 seasons.