There are 73 users in the forums

49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Shop Find 49ers gear online

49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by thl408:
Jimmy thread moves too fast so I'll post it here. This is about Jimmy saying he liked it in 2017 when he could sling it around (paraphrased).

What I think he meant by this is that in 2017, when he first got acquired, he was not familiar with all the schemed up passing plays in Kyle's offense. So Kyle had to call plays that consisted of basic route concepts (slant/flat, spacing, smash, levels, etc). This is what NE did where they spread it out formationally with a MOFO beater to one side, a MOFC to the other side, and have the QB presnap read to take him to the correct concept. This puts the focus on the QB to make the correct reads and pick the correct route.

Kyle, while doing the above at times (every team does it), also has heavily schemed up pass plays where there is a clear primary. Jimmy was not familiar with these plays in 2017 because NE doesn't do them. These plays include one of Kyle's favorite the Yankee concept (Cover3 beater). While the Go route can be targeted, if the defense plays it right, it is rarely open. Yankee is designed to get the intermediate crosser open, it is the clear primary. In a way, this "handcuffs" the QB because there is a clear route that is designed to be open and the QB is asked to hit it, assuming Kyle calls it against Cover3.

Other plays I consider "schemed up" include some of those bootleg slide concepts where Jimmy fakes the handoff, bootlegs and Kittle is open on a short throw as he runs across the formation behind the LoS. Again, a clear primary on this play that we can say "handcuffs" the QB. TE Leak (play where Lance overthrew Kroft), clear primary. FB leak where Juice fakes a block and is wide open down the sideline, clear primary. These plays take a lot of decision making out of the QB. So I think this is what Jimmy meant by his comments and it jives with his unfamiliarity with Kyle's offense in 2017.

What I don't think Jimmy means is:
- Kyle doesn't let me throw it deep
- Kyle is not allowing me to throw it to certain routes on certain plays

Nice post and well thought-out. The only thing I'd add is IIRC, Jimmy got to pick his plays, the ones he was most familiar with. By 2018, I'd imagine all the play calls where picked by Kyle based on match-ups and setting the defense up, and plays he felt he could scheme open best making it easiest on Jimmy to just "go execute." I'm sure Kyle picks from a pool of plays he's refined knowing Jimmy's strengths but it's still not set up like what we saw with Arians and Brady where ultimately, Arians let go and let Brady basically be the OC while still working in tandem.
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 27,622
Originally posted by Waterbear:
Originally posted by thl408:
Jimmy thread moves too fast so I'll post it here. This is about Jimmy saying he liked it in 2017 when he could sling it around (paraphrased).

What I think he meant by this is that in 2017, when he first got acquired, he was not familiar with all the schemed up passing plays in Kyle's offense. So Kyle had to call plays that consisted of basic route concepts (slant/flat, spacing, smash, levels, etc). This is what NE did where they spread it out formationally with a MOFO beater to one side, a MOFC to the other side, and have the QB presnap read to take him to the correct concept. This puts the focus on the QB to make the correct reads and pick the correct route.

Kyle, while doing the above at times (every team does it), also has heavily schemed up pass plays where there is a clear primary. Jimmy was not familiar with these plays in 2017 because NE doesn't do them. These plays include one of Kyle's favorite the Yankee concept (Cover3 beater). While the Go route can be targeted, if the defense plays it right, it is rarely open. Yankee is designed to get the intermediate crosser open, it is the clear primary. In a way, this "handcuffs" the QB because there is a clear route that is designed to be open and the QB is asked to hit it, assuming Kyle calls it against Cover3.

Other plays I consider "schemed up" include some of those bootleg slide concepts where Jimmy fakes the handoff, bootlegs and Kittle is open on a short throw as he runs across the formation behind the LoS. Again, a clear primary on this play that we can say "handcuffs" the QB. TE Leak (play where Lance overthrew Kroft), clear primary. FB leak where Juice fakes a block and is wide open down the sideline, clear primary. These plays take a lot of decision making out of the QB. So I think this is what Jimmy meant by his comments and it jives with his unfamiliarity with Kyle's offense in 2017.

What I don't think Jimmy means is:
- Kyle doesn't let me throw it deep
- Kyle is not allowing me to throw it to certain routes on certain plays

Isn't that what JD was insinuating? That Kyle should let Jimmy cook and that Jimmy's play style doesn't have anything to do with our lack of deep shots?

I guess there's a difference between calling plays with deep routes and telling the QB never to target it, and calling plays that don't have deep shots.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Waterbear:
Originally posted by thl408:
Jimmy thread moves too fast so I'll post it here. This is about Jimmy saying he liked it in 2017 when he could sling it around (paraphrased).

What I think he meant by this is that in 2017, when he first got acquired, he was not familiar with all the schemed up passing plays in Kyle's offense. So Kyle had to call plays that consisted of basic route concepts (slant/flat, spacing, smash, levels, etc). This is what NE did where they spread it out formationally with a MOFO beater to one side, a MOFC to the other side, and have the QB presnap read to take him to the correct concept. This puts the focus on the QB to make the correct reads and pick the correct route.

Kyle, while doing the above at times (every team does it), also has heavily schemed up pass plays where there is a clear primary. Jimmy was not familiar with these plays in 2017 because NE doesn't do them. These plays include one of Kyle's favorite the Yankee concept (Cover3 beater). While the Go route can be targeted, if the defense plays it right, it is rarely open. Yankee is designed to get the intermediate crosser open, it is the clear primary. In a way, this "handcuffs" the QB because there is a clear route that is designed to be open and the QB is asked to hit it, assuming Kyle calls it against Cover3.

Other plays I consider "schemed up" include some of those bootleg slide concepts where Jimmy fakes the handoff, bootlegs and Kittle is open on a short throw as he runs across the formation behind the LoS. Again, a clear primary on this play that we can say "handcuffs" the QB. TE Leak (play where Lance overthrew Kroft), clear primary. FB leak where Juice fakes a block and is wide open down the sideline, clear primary. These plays take a lot of decision making out of the QB. So I think this is what Jimmy meant by his comments and it jives with his unfamiliarity with Kyle's offense in 2017.

What I don't think Jimmy means is:
- Kyle doesn't let me throw it deep
- Kyle is not allowing me to throw it to certain routes on certain plays

Isn't that what JD was insinuating? That Kyle should let Jimmy cook and that Jimmy's play style doesn't have anything to do with our lack of deep shots?

I guess there's a difference between calling plays with deep routes and telling the QB never to target it, and calling plays that don't have deep shots.

But Jimmy wasn't taking deep shots in 2017 either.
Originally posted by NotAFinga42:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Waterbear:
Originally posted by thl408:
Jimmy thread moves too fast so I'll post it here. This is about Jimmy saying he liked it in 2017 when he could sling it around (paraphrased).

What I think he meant by this is that in 2017, when he first got acquired, he was not familiar with all the schemed up passing plays in Kyle's offense. So Kyle had to call plays that consisted of basic route concepts (slant/flat, spacing, smash, levels, etc). This is what NE did where they spread it out formationally with a MOFO beater to one side, a MOFC to the other side, and have the QB presnap read to take him to the correct concept. This puts the focus on the QB to make the correct reads and pick the correct route.

Kyle, while doing the above at times (every team does it), also has heavily schemed up pass plays where there is a clear primary. Jimmy was not familiar with these plays in 2017 because NE doesn't do them. These plays include one of Kyle's favorite the Yankee concept (Cover3 beater). While the Go route can be targeted, if the defense plays it right, it is rarely open. Yankee is designed to get the intermediate crosser open, it is the clear primary. In a way, this "handcuffs" the QB because there is a clear route that is designed to be open and the QB is asked to hit it, assuming Kyle calls it against Cover3.

Other plays I consider "schemed up" include some of those bootleg slide concepts where Jimmy fakes the handoff, bootlegs and Kittle is open on a short throw as he runs across the formation behind the LoS. Again, a clear primary on this play that we can say "handcuffs" the QB. TE Leak (play where Lance overthrew Kroft), clear primary. FB leak where Juice fakes a block and is wide open down the sideline, clear primary. These plays take a lot of decision making out of the QB. So I think this is what Jimmy meant by his comments and it jives with his unfamiliarity with Kyle's offense in 2017.

What I don't think Jimmy means is:
- Kyle doesn't let me throw it deep
- Kyle is not allowing me to throw it to certain routes on certain plays

Isn't that what JD was insinuating? That Kyle should let Jimmy cook and that Jimmy's play style doesn't have anything to do with our lack of deep shots?

I guess there's a difference between calling plays with deep routes and telling the QB never to target it, and calling plays that don't have deep shots.

But Jimmy wasn't taking deep shots in 2017 either.

2017 Starting WR's Pierre Garcon and Marquise Goodwin. 1462 total yds between the two of them. He had E. Sanders for half a season in 2019 and Goodwin was always in and out of the lineup during his time here. It's hard to let the deep ball fly when you don't have a receiver that can get behind the defense.
"You'd have to ask him what he meant by that," Shanahan told reporters. "There was no difference in that game than every game, so you can ask him on that. It was probably just going in when the game plan is for someone else and just coming off and winging it and going with it. That's what I would guess, but it sounds like that's a question for him."

"No, I really don't know the quote that he said," Shanahan said. "I'm with Jimmy a lot, so nothing really surprises me. I get to talk to him every day. I hear your huge interpretations of that quote and you guys just said it. I can't interpret it. I interpret it with my relationship with him every day, so just go ask him what he meant by it."

"I'm not going to waste my time with that, but you can," Shanahan said. "I got some real stuff to do."

Seems like Shanahan got real impatient with that line of questioning. Perhaps Kyle is the control freak like some fans say he is.
Originally posted by YACBros85:
"You'd have to ask him what he meant by that," Shanahan told reporters. "There was no difference in that game than every game, so you can ask him on that. It was probably just going in when the game plan is for someone else and just coming off and winging it and going with it. That's what I would guess, but it sounds like that's a question for him."

"No, I really don't know the quote that he said," Shanahan said. "I'm with Jimmy a lot, so nothing really surprises me. I get to talk to him every day. I hear your huge interpretations of that quote and you guys just said it. I can't interpret it. I interpret it with my relationship with him every day, so just go ask him what he meant by it."

"I'm not going to waste my time with that, but you can," Shanahan said. "I got some real stuff to do."

Seems like Shanahan got real impatient with that line of questioning. Perhaps Kyle is the control freak like some fans say he is.
no, it's jimmy not being accountable again..
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
"You'd have to ask him what he meant by that," Shanahan told reporters. "There was no difference in that game than every game, so you can ask him on that. It was probably just going in when the game plan is for someone else and just coming off and winging it and going with it. That's what I would guess, but it sounds like that's a question for him."

"No, I really don't know the quote that he said," Shanahan said. "I'm with Jimmy a lot, so nothing really surprises me. I get to talk to him every day. I hear your huge interpretations of that quote and you guys just said it. I can't interpret it. I interpret it with my relationship with him every day, so just go ask him what he meant by it."

"I'm not going to waste my time with that, but you can," Shanahan said. "I got some real stuff to do."

Seems like Shanahan got real impatient with that line of questioning. Perhaps Kyle is the control freak like some fans say he is.
no, it's jimmy not being accountable again..

You think so? Or are you being sarcastic?
Something that didn't occur to me until now.

'"It was probably just going in when the game plan is for someone else and just coming off and winging it and going with it. That's what I would guess."

The way I am interpreting this statement is that Jimmy was winging it because he had plays that were called that were part of the gameplan that gave him an opportunity to wing it. "Throw it deep". Kyle wouldn't normally call so many of those deep outside plays if it were a gameplan specifically for Jimmy. Jimmy's strength is not deep and outside the numbers.

Seems like a little tension between what Kyle believes Jimmy is best at and what Jimmy feels he might need to finally get over the hump.
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Something that didn't occur to me until now.

'"It was probably just going in when the game plan is for someone else and just coming off and winging it and going with it. That's what I would guess."

The way I am interpreting this statement is that Jimmy was winging it because he had plays that were called that were part of the gameplan that gave him an opportunity to wing it. "Throw it deep". Kyle wouldn't normally call so many of those deep outside plays if it were a gameplan specifically for Jimmy. Jimmy's strength is not deep and outside the numbers.

Seems like a little tension between what Kyle believes Jimmy is best at and what Jimmy feels he might need to finally get over the hump.
Read someone's post on Kyle words about scrapping the entire gameplan

jimmy also mentioned getting plays he used to and a few new ones.

not sure why Jimmy is doing this as his winging it led to an awful second half
I hope Kyle doesn't take what Jimmy said to heart and puts him In the doghouse.

On a serious note, I think there's some truth to Kyle being a control freak and I'm still not convinced Lance was his guy.

Originally posted by Sickaa:
I hope Kyle doesn't take what Jimmy said to heart and puts him In the doghouse.

On a serious note, I think there's some truth to Kyle being a control freak and I'm still not convinced Lance was his guy.

You think he's a control freak, but he would cede control on what QB the team drafts?
  • 9moon
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 17,138
Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Originally posted by Sickaa:
I hope Kyle doesn't take what Jimmy said to heart and puts him In the doghouse.

On a serious note, I think there's some truth to Kyle being a control freak and I'm still not convinced Lance was his guy.

You think he's a control freak, but he would cede control on what QB the team drafts?

IM sure KS10 wanted Trevor or Wilson...

but any fans who believe that Lance was not KS10's guy just continues to give excuses as to how bad of a talent evaluator and a HC this guy is..
Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Originally posted by Sickaa:
I hope Kyle doesn't take what Jimmy said to heart and puts him In the doghouse.

On a serious note, I think there's some truth to Kyle being a control freak and I'm still not convinced Lance was his guy.

You think he's a control freak, but he would cede control on what QB the team drafts?

If it was Lynch or a subordinate that disagreed with Shanahan's choice at QB than obviously Shanahan would have the final say. If it was a very enthusiastic owner who was very vocal leading up to the draft that decided the pick than control freak or not, Shanahan didn't have the highest authority.
[ Edited by YACBros85 on Sep 23, 2022 at 7:12 PM ]
Originally posted by YACBros85:
If it was Lynch or a subordinate that disagreed with Shanahan's choice at QB than obviously Shanahan would have the final say. If it was a very enthusiastic owner who was very vocal leading up to the draft that decided the pick than control freak or not, Shanahan didn't have the highest authority.

Jed has been pretty good, as of late. I don't believe Jed had massive influence on the pick. As the owner he could have, and certainly would have voiced his opinion, but I think he is at a point where he wants to win, and understands that's best accomplished by letting the football guys make the football decisions.

As for Lance, I don't see how one can say Kyle is a control freak (I think Kyle is), and then suggest Lance isn't his guy. It was fairly obvious who picks one and two were going to be that year, and I can't see the 49ers making the move they did without Kyle spearheading that decision / the drafting of Lance. Whether it was a good or bad decision...only time will tell.
Originally posted by Polkadots:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
If it was Lynch or a subordinate that disagreed with Shanahan's choice at QB than obviously Shanahan would have the final say. If it was a very enthusiastic owner who was very vocal leading up to the draft that decided the pick than control freak or not, Shanahan didn't have the highest authority.

Jed has been pretty good, as of late. I don't believe Jed had massive influence on the pick. As the owner he could have, and certainly would have voiced his opinion, but I think he is at a point where he wants to win, and understands that's best accomplished by letting the football guys make the football decisions.

As for Lance, I don't see how one can say Kyle is a control freak (I think Kyle is), and then suggest Lance isn't his guy. It was fairly obvious who picks one and two were going to be that year, and I can't see the 49ers making the move they did without Kyle spearheading that decision / the drafting of Lance. Whether it was a good or bad decision...only time will tell.

I guess what makes the mind wander is that the pick was such a non Kyle type pick that has a few of us questioning it. Jed also came out so suddenly and enthusiastically that it just seemed really odd because we haven't heard from him a whole lot up to that point or there after. But like you said, he has been pretty good. You very well could be right that Jed truly does want to win and so he is letting the football guys make the decisions. I have no real evidence to back my claims. But just thought I would put it out there.
[ Edited by YACBros85 on Sep 23, 2022 at 7:40 PM ]
Share 49ersWebzone