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Originally posted by Ninefan56:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Yeah man. Every time I do one of these little coffee-fueled morning exercises, I learn something new.

In this case, it's crazy when you consider the Hawks got so many sacks from everywhere but almost all from both defensive end positions among 3 DE's (13.0-20.5) & the SAM (8.0). That's going to be our biggest weakness. I think there's a chance Brooks/Harold at the SAM could potentially get in that neighborhood (6.0). But DE? Unless Buckner unleashes, no way. He doesn't really have a sack artist behind him either unless we decide to use Blair at both end positions like they used Avril, Clemons & Bennett. In short, we need 3 legit pass rushers and now I'm wondering if LDE/5T is the right spot for Big Buck. Ironically, I can easily see Armstread/Blair beating that production at the RDT/3T spot. So Taco would be a nice fit...any quick-twitch, explosive, bendy pass rusher with an array of pass rush moves for both end spots is key. Myles Garrett would have been ideal...duh.

The other thing I learned was how interchangeable the LB positions are in this defense. We need 4 quality starters. Bowman, Ray-Ray and Smith might have a legit chance to play well. The Hawks had Bobby Wagner, Bruce Irvin, Malcolm Smith & K.J. Wright rotating there. Who's our 4th? Harold at SAM?

All that said, the defense is currently no match for Seattle's BUT there certainly are some parts that could end up being very effective in this defense nonetheless. Here's a look:

SAM: Bruce Irvin vs. Eli Harold --- Harold has a real chance to convert to an effective SAM from DE like Irvin did
MIKE: Bobby Wagner vs. Navarro Bowman --- Obviously, Bowman can be a dynamic player if he can return from injury...again
WILL: K.J. Wright/Malcolm Smith vs. Malcolm Smith/Ray-Ray Armstrong --- Plenty of speed here for this spot and better coverage ability with Ray-Ray. Smith can play both SAM and WILL
LCB: Richard Sherman vs. Rashard Robinson --- Everyone knows this kid is ready to make big plays in his leap year
RCB: Byron Maxwell vs. Tramaine Brock --- Our weakest CB and this is a deep CB draft of tall physical CB's
SCB: Walter Thurmond/Jeremy Lane vs. Will Redmond/K'Waun Williams --- Redmond has very very legit talent and should be healthy; he has a chance to be a big upgrade over these two
FS: Earl Thomas vs. Jimmie Ward --- Ward is finally going back to his natural position where he was a play maker in college
SS: Kam Chancellor vs. Jaquiski Tartt/Eric Reid --- Every defense needs an enforcer and nobody wants to be it more than Tartt

Assuming your assessment is correct, who are the players we can get in the draft who would fill these spots?

That would be a big assumption. LOL.

I think we have plenty of inside DT's who can play the run and add additional pass rush...some in dominant flashes. But to take that next step, we need pass rushers, pass rushers and more pass rushers. At least 3 true edge rushers. And not inside DT's who can play End on nickel/dime sets but pure edge rushers: quick-twitch, explosive, bendy pass rushers with an array of pass rush moves for both end spots. Myles Garrett would have been ideal for us. Here is a whole thread dedicated to this massive need: http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/nfl-draft/187275-best-pass-rushers/. Keep players like Avril, Clemons & Bennett in the back of your mind as you review film.

Then we'll just to have to see about how the rest of our players pan out by the end of the year. Hopefully, many of them make the cut and excel so we'll have less needs on defense next year. I'm hoping half pan out at least in this 4-3_under:

SAM: Bruce Irvin vs. Eli Harold --- Harold has a real chance to convert to an effective SAM from DE like Irvin did
MIKE: Bobby Wagner vs. Navarro Bowman --- Obviously, Bowman can be a dynamic player if he can return from injury...again
WILL: K.J. Wright/Malcolm Smith vs. Malcolm Smith/Ray-Ray Armstrong --- Plenty of speed here for this spot and better coverage ability with Ray-Ray. Smith can play both SAM and WILL
LCB: Richard Sherman vs. Rashard Robinson --- Everyone knows this kid is ready to make big plays in his leap year
RCB: Byron Maxwell vs. Tramaine Brock --- Our weakest CB and this is a deep CB draft of tall physical CB's
SCB: Walter Thurmond/Jeremy Lane vs. Will Redmond/K'Waun Williams --- Redmond has very very legit talent and should be healthy; he has a chance to be a big upgrade over these two
FS: Earl Thomas vs. Jimmie Ward --- Ward is finally going back to his natural position where he was a play maker in college
SS: Kam Chancellor vs. Jaquiski Tartt/Eric Reid --- Every defense needs an enforcer and nobody wants to be it more than Tartt. Nobody wants it less than Reid.
[ Edited by NCommand on Mar 19, 2017 at 2:41 PM ]
Agree or disagree, if you had to put your life on the line... you think we trade down?

My answer is yes. I'm tired of projecting our picks lol.
Thanks NC that was a helpful referral.
Originally posted by Ninefan56:
Thanks NC that was a helpful referral.

You bet bud!
Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:
Agree or disagree, if you had to put your life on the line... you think we trade down?

My answer is yes. I'm tired of projecting our picks lol.

I don't think there is any question. If we get any decent trade offer, we're trading back.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:
Agree or disagree, if you had to put your life on the line... you think we trade down?

My answer is yes. I'm tired of projecting our picks lol.

I don't think there is any question. If we get any decent trade offer, we're trading back.

If you came up on something and then decided to auction it off, even if you don't get by the book value you can still be a winner. I think we do get a decent offer and we do trade down as well.
Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:
Agree or disagree, if you had to put your life on the line... you think we trade down?

My answer is yes. I'm tired of projecting our picks lol.

I don't think there is any question. If we get any decent trade offer, we're trading back.

If you came up on something and then decided to auction it off, even if you don't get by the book value you can still be a winner. I think we do get a decent offer and we do trade down as well.

It's really the only way to validate the valueof the #2 pick if we don't go QB. No other player is perceived to be worthy of the #2 and a non-QB pick there, hell, even a QB there, will be questioned up and down unless it's,an absolute home-run...which is hard to see with this group. Why risk it on your first draft? Look "smart" and trade down. That's incredibly easy to justify.
[ Edited by NCommand on Mar 19, 2017 at 5:40 PM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
It's really the only way to validate the valueof the #2 pick if we don't go QB. No other player is perceived to be worthy of the #2 and a non-QB pick there, hell, even a QB there, will be questioned up and down unless it's,an absolute home-run...which is hard to see with this group. Why risk it on your first draft? Look "smart" and trade down. That's incredibly easy to justify.

I see what you did there.

Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by NCommand:
It's really the only way to validate the valueof the #2 pick if we don't go QB. No other player is perceived to be worthy of the #2 and a non-QB pick there, hell, even a QB there, will be questioned up and down unless it's,an absolute home-run...which is hard to see with this group. Why risk it on your first draft? Look "smart" and trade down. That's incredibly easy to justify.

I see what you did there.


Hehe. I love that little emoji!
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by NCommand:
It's really the only way to validate the valueof the #2 pick if we don't go QB. No other player is perceived to be worthy of the #2 and a non-QB pick there, hell, even a QB there, will be questioned up and down unless it's,an absolute home-run...which is hard to see with this group. Why risk it on your first draft? Look "smart" and trade down. That's incredibly easy to justify.

I see what you did there.


Hehe. I love that little emoji!

I can't wait till Lynchahan, fire the la-ser

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:
I can't wait till Lynchahan, fire the la-ser

LOL...exactly. Oh wait, Kaepernick isn't here anymore.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:
Agree or disagree, if you had to put your life on the line... you think we trade down?

My answer is yes. I'm tired of projecting our picks lol.

I don't think there is any question. If we get any decent trade offer, we're trading back.

True, but just as long as we still have the ability to sign williams, the one guy who can make the team demonstrably better, and that is immediately. Also, a trade past the Bills is a non-starter. We have to keep the trade so we are picking with Allen, Solomon, Foster, and Williams , esp williams, likely to be there. That means the "QB needy teams" of Jets at 6 and SD at 7. I would think both Trubs and Watson gone, Myles gone, probably Allen and Solomon gone, leaving only the Jets at #6. Any further down than that and a good chance Williams is gone too.

Uber tier: Myles

Upper tier: Allen, Solomon, Foster and Williams.

We gotta keep it where we get the upper tier guy and earmark Williams as the pick. So i would NOT move further down than jets at 6. If we turn our #2 pick into a "good player" pick, then we DID throw away the 2nd pick in the draft. Some guys would also have Adams, Fournette, mabye one or two ohters. But for me, there is Myles and then just the above 4 guys in upper tier. Lots of talent in first two rounds this yr, but the one best is Myles, and then the 4 upper tier guys above. I'll be sick if we drop below #6.
[ Edited by pasodoc9er on Mar 20, 2017 at 10:11 AM ]
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
True, but just as long as we still have the ability to sign williams, the one guy who can make the team demonstrably better, and that is immediately. Also, a trade past the Bills is a non-starter. We have to keep the trade so we are picking with Allen, Solomon, Foster, and Williams , esp williams, likely to be there. That means the "QB needy teams" of Jets at 6 and SD at 7. I would think both Trubs and Watson gone, Myles gone, probably Allen and Solomon gone, leaving only the Jets at #6. Any further down than that and a good chance Williams is gone too.

Uber tier: Myles

Upper tier: Allen, Solomon, Foster and Williams.

We gotta keep it where we get the upper tier guy and earmark Williams as the pick. So i would NOT move further down than jets at 6. If we turn our #2 pick into a "good player" pick, then we DID throw away the 2nd pick in the draft. Some guys would also have Adams, Fournette, mabye one or two ohters. But for me, there is Myles and then just the above 4 guys in upper tier. Lots of talent in first two rounds this yr, but the one best is Myles, and then the 4 upper tier guys above. I'll be sick if we drop below #6.

Yes sir!
I guess we wont have many offers to trade down, so if we have a chance to trade #2 for more picks we should pull the trigger without thinking too much.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
True, but just as long as we still have the ability to sign williams, the one guy who can make the team demonstrably better, and that is immediately. Also, a trade past the Bills is a non-starter. We have to keep the trade so we are picking with Allen, Solomon, Foster, and Williams , esp williams, likely to be there. That means the "QB needy teams" of Jets at 6 and SD at 7. I would think both Trubs and Watson gone, Myles gone, probably Allen and Solomon gone, leaving only the Jets at #6. Any further down than that and a good chance Williams is gone too.

Uber tier: Myles

Upper tier: Allen, Solomon, Foster and Williams.

We gotta keep it where we get the upper tier guy and earmark Williams as the pick. So i would NOT move further down than jets at 6. If we turn our #2 pick into a "good player" pick, then we DID throw away the 2nd pick in the draft. Some guys would also have Adams, Fournette, mabye one or two ohters. But for me, there is Myles and then just the above 4 guys in upper tier. Lots of talent in first two rounds this yr, but the one best is Myles, and then the 4 upper tier guys above. I'll be sick if we drop below #6.

Yes sir!

With Corey Davis missing the combine,we can probably trade down further than six and get Davis/Williams. I think Shanny likes Davis better based off the tape. But based off the tape and the talent that Williams went up and shined against, he could easily be the guy.

I believe the Jags and a Coughlin ran team, are going to go Thomas/Allen. If another team after the Jags think the top three players off the board are gonna be Garrett,Thomas and Allen... then a team from #4 on would wanna trade with us to ensure themselves Thomas/Allen.

How good y'all think Allen would be at NT playing next to Buck&AA. Pass rusher with the next pick, then trade up for a CB&WR if we HAVE to stay at #2.
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