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Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by Niner4ever:
LOL even a child understands that it's only because there is the greatest amount of numbers taken in that round. Which only strengthens the fact that they fail at an alarming rate. Appreciate the remedial math lesson though LOL.

DJ Moore? Desperation I see.

Opinion as facts? Okay, well, doesn't change that you're 100% wrong! Just do a simple internet search. It might help you.

Peace

Listen I get the point you're trying to make. Yes the WR position is fairly bust heavy as far as first rounders go.

I just disagree with your thought process that because of that history we should automatically avoid the WR position in the first round.

Every year is different, each draft class is different and each player is different. In my opinion it's no different than saying WRs from school X suck. Does that mean that school will never produce a great WR? Of course not. There are trends but trends aren't guarantees for the future.

I figured since we're talking about the 13th pick...let's take a look at the WRs who were drafted with that pick or above for a better analysis.

I went back to 1991 so we get a near 30 year sample(1990 didn't have a WR drafted that high)

1991:
Hermon Moore(10) - good pick
Alvin Harper(12) - bust but Dallas was pretty much run Emmitt, throw to Irvin offense. Harper had his moments but overall a bust.
Mike Pritchard(13) - bust bad QB play

1992:
Desmond Howard(4) - bust but had awful QB play with the Redskins who drafted him

1993:
Curtis Conway(7) - meh...not a total bust but probably not worth 7th overall but once again poor QB play

1995:
Michael Westbrook(4) - bust for where he was taken
Joey Galloway(8) - good player
JJ Stokes(10) - :(

1996:
Keyshawn Johnson(1) - good player, you can argue whether he was worth #1 overall or not
Terry Glenn(7) - good player, not a great mind state

1997:
Ike Hillard(7) - bust for where he was taken

1999:
Torry Holt(6) - great pick
David Boston(8) - was a good pick before he roided up like crazy and couldn't stay healthy
Troy Edwards(13) - bust

2000:
Peter Warrick(4) - bust
Plaxico Burress(8) - good pick
Travis Taylor(10) - bust for where he was drafted

2001:
David Terrell(8) - bust, one of the most surprising ones IMO with how good he was. Went to Chicago where WRs go to die
Koren Robinson(9) - bust but had flashes

2003:
Charles Rogers(2) - bust but due to injuries and being a knucklehead
Andre Johnson(3) - great pick
Donte Stallworth(13) - bust for where he was picked

2004:
Larry Fitzgerald(3) - great pick
Roy Williams(7) - meh bust based on where he was picked
Reggie Williams(9) - bust
Lee Evans(13) - decent player, you can argue he wasn't worth the pick though

2005:
Braylon Edwards(3) - had himself a breakout season making the pro bowl but then never got near that production again
Troy Williamson(7) - bust
Mike Williams(10) - bust

2007:
Calvin Johnson(2) - great pick
Ted Ginn(9) - bust for where he was drafted but still around

2009:
Darrious Heyward-Bey(7) - bust
Michael Crabtree(10) - you call it

2011:
AJ Green(4) - great pick
Julio Jones(6) - great pick

2012:
Justin Blackmon(5) - bust, actually had a decent rookie season but was a knucklehead
Michael Floyd(13) - bust

2013:
Tavon Austin(8) - bust

2014 - the best comparison to this WR class
Sammy Watkins(4) - you can certainly argue he was a bust based on the WRs drafted after him but he's shown the talent that got him drafted that high
Mike Evans(7) - great pick
Odell Beckham(12) - great pick

2015:
Amari Cooper(4) - good pick
Kevin White(7) - bust but had a ton of injuries/poor QB play

2017:
Corey Davis(5) - not worth the pick so far
Mike Williams(7) - looking pretty good
John Ross(9) - not looking good

So yes...overall it's not looking great for early first round WRs but the list is riddled with some terrific players and for the bulk of the busts the thing that stands out the most is poor passing offense overall, defensive minded HCs or awful QB play.

The 49ers are in a very different position than a lot of these teams. We have a HC who is an offensive wizard and someone who understands exactly what he wants out of his receivers.

That is why history while something to look at shouldn't be the overall decision maker on what happens in THIS draft.

You don't need a Jerry Rice and let's be honest if people thought Jerry Rice would be Jerry Rice he would've gone #1 overall or at the very least been the first WR drafted since Bruce Smith is a pretty darn good player on his own right.

This is a different draft class. Different players. We have the guys who know how to find players on offense. We have a good QB in place and good players around that would help the young guy in games and vice versa. Yes there is still a risk in drafting WR that high, as there is with any position. But we are in position to mitigate that risk as much as possible given what we have.

Now this year with COVID19 things are very different and it's harder to get a read on guys so if you want to play that card then I'm game. It's a risk so playing the historical odds MAY make sense in a situation like this where you try to draft the less bustable position but playing it safe like that may have you walking away with a much less impactful player.

We'll see what happens. I felt pretty strongly that Solomon Thomas in 2017 had a very low bust factor because he checked off all the athletic check boxes and all the off the field check boxes...yet here we are.

I trust this front office with Kyle to get the WR pick right. Whether it's at 13 or later in the draft.
This is a really good post and glad you went out and looked into it so you and others don't think my position is invalid. We agree almost 100% on your list:

Guys that are good:

Herman Moore 1991
Plaxico Burress 2000
Amari Cooper 2015

Guys that are great:

Andre Johnson 2003
Larry Fitzgerald 2004
Calvin Johnson 2007
Julio Jones 2011
AJ Green 2011
Mike Evans 2014
Odell Beckham 2014
Amari Cooper 2015

One thing that sticks out about all these guys except Beckham is that they are all big guys unlike the ones posters are suggesting taking with the 13th. The success rate isn't enticing out of the 46 guys taken in that span 11 turned out to be something. I understand Kyle can make a difference but it's very hard to hit on a guy at that position, can it happen sure but it's extremely hard as we can see. I wrote this on post #69 to you:

"I'm intrigued by Denzel Mims 6'3 207 4.38 similar in the mold of DK Metcalf who looks to create problems for the league moving forward. The team has quite a few guys that are 6 foot under with a stud in Samuel. I'd love to to keep Jimmy healthy- upright and away from being on his back, I'd love to be able to stop an opposing top receiver and get the ball back to the offense and I'd love to be able to get a guy that can stretch the field when it's needed."
Originally posted by WestCoastO:
All good research however imagine Ruggs as our own version of Tyler Lockett or Tyreek Hill. Could turn out to be a great pick if Lynch goes wide out at 13
Yeah but those guys were taken in the 3rd and 5th rounds, I believe.
Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
If we had a lot of draft picks and cap space to sign free agents I wouldn't be concerned about going for a WR. The problem is we don't have a lot of picks and we have a need at at least 3 positions so we can't afford a mistake.
I agree with this.
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by goldlame2013:
Honestly I don't get some of you guys. NFL stands for not Not For Long. How long do you guys in favor of an OT at 13 think we can get away with 5 yards and a cloud of dust offense with Jimmy G throwing under a 100yds. You can only get away with that for so long. You need playmakers at WR, or you can forget it.
And how long do you imagine we will have a qb if we don't get him better protection? If we put together a decent O line than Garoppolo will be able to throw reasonable receivers open. You need to protect your qb and open up the running game or you can forget it.
Exactly right, not saying Jimmy is Brady but look at how they managed to do it in today's NFL for so long and with so many guys coming and going at wideout, running back etc. Protecting the QB except for that one year when he busted his knee and playing great defense. The biggest issue for me in the Super Bowl was the amount of pressure being put on Jimmy as well as the running game being stuffed on top of having no great cornerback. Jimmy isn't mobile and that smelled like line play all the way.
[ Edited by Niner4ever on Apr 6, 2020 at 11:44 AM ]
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by goldlame2013:
Honestly I don't get some of you guys. NFL stands for not Not For Long. How long do you guys in favor of an OT at 13 think we can get away with 5 yards and a cloud of dust offense with Jimmy G throwing under a 100yds. You can only get away with that for so long. You need playmakers at WR, or you can forget it.

And how long do you imagine we will have a qb if we don't get him better protection? If we put together a decent O line than Garoppolo will be able to throw reasonable receivers open. You need to protect your qb and open up the running game or you can forget it.

I've always been a believer that you play towards the strengths of your team, especially if that strength works even better bc of how NFL is set up now. Julio is a great WR, even without KS. But with KS, he turned into the best WR in the league. He put a 1800 yard season, that's incredible. Giving Kyle another good WR will go along way in this offense. Sanders was a good player, but he doesn't do anything at an elite level. While guys like Jeudy or Ruggs either have elite route running or elite speed, they will look even better in this offense than Sanders ever would.

Kyle wants to recreate what he did in ATL, elite run game, elite passing game. Obviously you still need OL for that, but if the chance to draft a Jeudy or Ruggs is there, and add that to the run game + Kiltte and Deebo , you can't pass up the chance to possibly have an all time great offense for many years. That's worth more than OL at 13. We can draft a G at 31 and that will still be good enough. And it's not like Larry Allen is sitting there at #13 and you can't pass it up.
[ Edited by TheGore49er on Apr 6, 2020 at 12:10 PM ]
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by goldlame2013:
Originally posted by 49ers81:
Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
If we had a lot of draft picks and cap space to sign free agents I wouldn't be concerned about going for a WR. The problem is we don't have a lot of picks and we have a need at at least 3 positions so we can't afford a mistake. That's why I am in favor of taking the best player available at #13 out of WR, corner and OL. They have to be pretty confident in the player and if the go WR he has to be a guy that fits Kyle's system. Jeudy might be the best fit with his precise route running.

Chris Simms, who you can make of what you want, had a segment he did on his top five receivers in this draft class and Jeudy didn't make the list for what I thought was a very interesting reason. While Simms acknowledged that Jeudy was an excellent route runner with good speed he questioned his run after the catch ability. He said, and I am paraphrasing, that Jeudy will run you a great 6 yard route and get tackled as soon as he catches the ball. Again, I have to emphasize that these are his observations and I am not saying I agree with them or not. I don't watch college football so all I have to go on are highlight reels and what the various mock draft write-ups say about players.

In this particular case Simms view seems to be something of an outlier. Most of the other write-ups and comments I have seen don't seem to express that same concern. There are two things that make it sort of interesting though. The first is that he said he had shared his list with some of his friends in the NFL and that they had not necessarily disagreed with him. Apparently one of his best friends in the game is Kyle Shanahan. Again, you can take that for whatever it is worth but it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility that he would share his thoughts with a close friend whose team was most frequently associated with the need to take a WR high in the draft. The other thing is that in watching highlights of the three guys who are usually considered at the top of the class, Jeudy, Ruggs and Lamb, I thought it was Lamb's clips that stood out the most, that guy is really something with the ball in his hands. It would be quite a sight to see him paired him up with Samuel and Kittle and a, hopefully, healthy Jalen Hurd. Not to mention Trent Taylor, who has a bit of dog in him as well. As I said in an earlier post, defenses would have to bring their big boy pads every game to deal with that line-up and it would fit in nicely with the team's whole speed and violence mantra.

I usually don't have very strong opinions about who the team should draft at the number one spot. I was thinking they would take Bosa last year but could have seen them taking Allen as well, though I am glad it worked out the way it did. I know they have some pressing needs elsewhere but I have to admit I am really rooting for them to take Lamb. Unfortunately I think the Raiders or Jets will get to him first. There was a time, when Al Davis was in charge, that you could rely on the Raiders taking a guy like Ruggs who is the fastest of the group, but with Mayock calling the shots I imagine they will be targeting Lamb if he is still on the board. That kid Jefferson, out of LSU I think, could be an option as well if they can't get who they want at 13 they might be able to trade back a couple of spots and still get Jefferson and maybe collect some extra picks. We'll see what happens I guess.

This does cause a pause. It's almost as if Chris has been talking to Kyle, if so, he knows more than he's letting on

Saw that and wondered the same thing. But would Shanahan tell Simms the truth or would he float one past him as a bit of disinformation? No idea but I don't really believe anything in the month before the draft.

That's the whole "he knows so that I know that he knows..."

I see Jeudy as a better and bigger Dante Pettis and Kyle liked him. I think people are making too much out of his bad combine. The film shows a guy who is fast, gets open and breaks ankles when the ball is in his hands. I don't see Kyle looking at the combine numbers and ignoring the tape.

My guess is Simms is trying to help Kyle with the whole thing but who the hell knows. Personally I think Ruggs is the #1 guy on our board but I'm making assumptions based on my hopes.
Originally posted by Niner4ever:
This is a really good post and glad you went out and looked into it so you and others don't think my position is invalid. We agree almost 100% on your list:

Guys that are good:

Herman Moore 1991
Plaxico Burress 2000
Amari Cooper 2015

Guys that are great:

Andre Johnson 2003
Larry Fitzgerald 2004
Calvin Johnson 2007
Julio Jones 2011
AJ Green 2011
Mike Evans 2014
Odell Beckham 2014
Amari Cooper 2015

One thing that sticks out about all these guys except Beckham is that they are all big guys unlike the ones posters are suggesting taking with the 13th. The success rate isn't enticing out of the 46 guys taken in that span 11 turned out to be something. I understand Kyle can make a difference but it's very hard to hit on a guy at that position, can it happen sure but it's extremely hard as we can see. I wrote this on post #69 to you:

"I'm intrigued by Denzel Mims 6'3 207 4.38 similar in the mold of DK Metcalf who looks to create problems for the league moving forward. The team has quite a few guys that are 6 foot under with a stud in Samuel. I'd love to to keep Jimmy healthy- upright and away from being on his back, I'd love to be able to stop an opposing top receiver and get the ball back to the offense and I'd love to be able to get a guy that can stretch the field when it's needed."

I like a lot of WRs in this class. Mims is one of my favorites for us before we acquired the 13th pick.

The issue is can you guarantee you get him if he's your target? There are several teams picking ahead of us at #31 that have a substantial WR need.

Broncos, Eagles, Raiders(if they don't go with one at 12), Jaguars, Dolphins(x2), Vikings(x2), Jags, Ravens, Packers

Doesn't mean obviously they all go WR but they very well could and then what happens if they target similar guys that we want? Packers picking ahead of us are running a similar offense and everyone and their mother is mocking Mims to them after the combine.

Now if you could guarantee me that we could draft Mims with a later pick then I'd be right there with you, let's use 13 on another position and see if we get get Mims to be our Julio Jones generic version.

Unfortunately that's not how it goes. This WR class is deep but do you take the best of the bunch knowing you probably can get your top guy or close to it? Or do you see how the draft unfolds and end up with your 6th or worse guy?

I'd love to land a big WR who runs crisp routes and has good speed. Those guys as you can see go pretty high lol.
Originally posted by TheGore49er:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by goldlame2013:
Honestly I don't get some of you guys. NFL stands for not Not For Long. How long do you guys in favor of an OT at 13 think we can get away with 5 yards and a cloud of dust offense with Jimmy G throwing under a 100yds. You can only get away with that for so long. You need playmakers at WR, or you can forget it.

And how long do you imagine we will have a qb if we don't get him better protection? If we put together a decent O line than Garoppolo will be able to throw reasonable receivers open. You need to protect your qb and open up the running game or you can forget it.

I've always been a believer that you play towards the strengths of your team, especially if that strength works even better bc of how NFL is set up now. Julio is a great WR, even without KS. But with KS, he turned into the best WR in the league. He put a 1800 yard season, that's incredible. Giving Kyle another good WR will go along way in this offense. Sanders was a good player, but he doesn't do anything at an elite level. While guys like Jeudy or Ruggs either have elite route running or elite speed, they will look even better in this offense than Sanders ever would.

Kyle wants to recreate what he did in ATL, elite run game, elite passing game. Obviously you still need OL for that, but if the chance to draft a Jeudy or Ruggs is there, and add that to the run game + Kiltte and Deebo , you can't pass up the chance to possibly have an all time great offense for many years. That's worth more than OL at 13. We can draft a G at 31 and that will still be good enough. And it's not like Larry Allen is sitting there at #13 and you can't pass it up.

I think you're right in terms of him wanting to have an elite run game and elite passing game(what coach wouldn't?)

But I don't know if he's necessarily looking for a Julio Jones on this team...sure as he said he'd take 11 of Julio Jones if he could but Julio isn't a common type of prospect.

But for me the reason I want Ruggs so much for us is because our best player is George Kittle. We added Deebo and Hurd(who we haven't seen play but playing type is similar - catch and run guy)

Someone like Ruggs forces teams to account for the deep ball on virtually every look with him out wide. That leaves a lot of room for Deebo and Kittle to do their thing in the middle of the field.
Originally posted by genus49:
I like a lot of WRs in this class. Mims is one of my favorites for us before we acquired the 13th pick.

The issue is can you guarantee you get him if he's your target? There are several teams picking ahead of us at #31 that have a substantial WR need.

Broncos, Eagles, Raiders(if they don't go with one at 12), Jaguars, Dolphins(x2), Vikings(x2), Jags, Ravens, Packers

Doesn't mean obviously they all go WR but they very well could and then what happens if they target similar guys that we want? Packers picking ahead of us are running a similar offense and everyone and their mother is mocking Mims to them after the combine.

Now if you could guarantee me that we could draft Mims with a later pick then I'd be right there with you, let's use 13 on another position and see if we get get Mims to be our Julio Jones generic version.

Unfortunately that's not how it goes. This WR class is deep but do you take the best of the bunch knowing you probably can get your top guy or close to it? Or do you see how the draft unfolds and end up with your 6th or worse guy?

I'd love to land a big WR who runs crisp routes and has good speed. Those guys as you can see go pretty high lol.
I'd move down 5 to 10 spots and being that there are a number of 6 foot and under guys I'd target a big speedy guy which is what the receiving corps needs and get all my needs. The O-line and corner spots on this team are very thin and weak. We'll definitely see what happens.
[ Edited by Niner4ever on Apr 6, 2020 at 12:52 PM ]
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by TheGore49er:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by goldlame2013:
Honestly I don't get some of you guys. NFL stands for not Not For Long. How long do you guys in favor of an OT at 13 think we can get away with 5 yards and a cloud of dust offense with Jimmy G throwing under a 100yds. You can only get away with that for so long. You need playmakers at WR, or you can forget it.

And how long do you imagine we will have a qb if we don't get him better protection? If we put together a decent O line than Garoppolo will be able to throw reasonable receivers open. You need to protect your qb and open up the running game or you can forget it.

I've always been a believer that you play towards the strengths of your team, especially if that strength works even better bc of how NFL is set up now. Julio is a great WR, even without KS. But with KS, he turned into the best WR in the league. He put a 1800 yard season, that's incredible. Giving Kyle another good WR will go along way in this offense. Sanders was a good player, but he doesn't do anything at an elite level. While guys like Jeudy or Ruggs either have elite route running or elite speed, they will look even better in this offense than Sanders ever would.

Kyle wants to recreate what he did in ATL, elite run game, elite passing game. Obviously you still need OL for that, but if the chance to draft a Jeudy or Ruggs is there, and add that to the run game + Kiltte and Deebo , you can't pass up the chance to possibly have an all time great offense for many years. That's worth more than OL at 13. We can draft a G at 31 and that will still be good enough. And it's not like Larry Allen is sitting there at #13 and you can't pass it up.

I think you're right in terms of him wanting to have an elite run game and elite passing game(what coach wouldn't?)

But I don't know if he's necessarily looking for a Julio Jones on this team...sure as he said he'd take 11 of Julio Jones if he could but Julio isn't a common type of prospect.

But for me the reason I want Ruggs so much for us is because our best player is George Kittle. We added Deebo and Hurd(who we haven't seen play but playing type is similar - catch and run guy)

Someone like Ruggs forces teams to account for the deep ball on virtually every look with him out wide. That leaves a lot of room for Deebo and Kittle to do their thing in the middle of the field.

Ya both Ruggs and Jeudy bring something else to the table. I would be happy with either of them.

And of course every coach wants and elite running game and pass game, but very few coaches can actually make it work very well. KS is a great OC and you need to give him quality players to work with. If you're great at something, you want to work with the best things available. Doesn't matter what profession it is, you want the best equipment if you're a doctor, computer programmer, army, etc. A really good doctor can still work with outdated equipment, but give him state of the art equipment and obviously it will help a lot more. Same thing with KS, you can plug in a 32 year old Sanders and good get production, but give him an actual elite WR and watch what he does.
[ Edited by TheGore49er on Apr 6, 2020 at 3:56 PM ]

^^^this is true, but having the world's best WR doesn't help much if JG is getting plastered every time he drops back. That is where the chicken and the egg conundrum is OL first to protect your FR QB. We already have au Jus, Kittle, Deebo, Mostert, Coleman, Brieda, as bona fide good receivers. But we also have Jet coming back, Hurd supposedly ready, and TT coming back. Those last 3 are ???but i assume one will answer the bell, and with luck two will. If all 3 do, we are loaded.

OTOH, not protecting Jimmy is a false sense of economy. Not protecting your main man is rolling the dice. Now having some guys who can block pass pro, is one thing. But having a substitute Center and two OGs that are just flat out bad in pass pro...somehow, that just doesn't make sense. Not good sense, any way.

We took 2 WRs in two early picks last yr, one had a good yr , the other injured. Now we can no longer turn a blind eye to the elephant in the room (and on the OL)...lousy pass pro. That to me says OL at #13, altho if someone wants to move up for that pick to get a great WR, fine, we drop back 1, maybe two slots and still get our OL....and pick up a 2nd pick (in rd 2).

Then at #31 if there is a starter OL there, (even if he needs a yr of coaching up), take him...but if he can be had a couple picks later, move down, get another extra pick, and then nail down our 2nd OL pick, only 1-2 slots later. You want a WR, get him with our extra pick for moving down for OL. Or if john has a good read on an OL in mid rd 2, trade back for him.

But no matter what we have to protect our QB this yr, something we risked last yr. We got lucky, jimmy didn't get injured. We have no business doing that again this yr.

A nightmare draft for me is kyle taking WRs at #13 and #31. If he does that it will be unconscionable. I just hope JL can keep a lid on Kyle's WR demands. After 2. OLs, fire away. Take WRs. But we also need cover corners, 2 of them. Also we need a substitute for Dee Ford for when he can't go which last yr was 3/4 of the plays, 226 snaps for 16 games. And he tried to play in SB, but his hammy just wouldn't let him. So that ER needs to be basically a guy who can be coached up to start.

Honestly, by rights, it seems a better idea for kyle to depend on Hurd, Jet, and TT plus Brieda, Mostert, Wilson, Coleman, au Jus, Kittle, Deebo, and don't forget Dwelley who will be ready to be a starter TE this yr....instead of drafting yet another WR early.. If he wants a WR, take one in rds 5,6, 7. But it is short sighted to take WRs before we get our OLs, CBs, DE. Do those first and THEN do WRs. Please just don't have another pair of WRs taken in early rds.
[ Edited by pasodoc9er on Apr 6, 2020 at 5:04 PM ]
The thing with drafting OL at 13 is you're practically forced to start him at RG but we know Kyle doesn't consider the position that important(maybe after the SB that will change) and by not important I'm talking draft capital. Then again if they're looking ahead that the guy they take there is our LT/RT of the future when Joe retires but what happens if somehow the guy we take isn't a great fit at RG? I mean we saw McGlinchey play RG...granted with no practice due to two injuries but it wasn't pretty. And even if he could play well at RG would we be stunting his growth at OT?

Just something else to consider.

As much as I love Ruggs for us or even Jeudy at 13 if we could get a guy who could fortify our OL now and help keep it strong in the future and we can still land a very good WR to help open things up for Deebo and Kittle then sign me up.

I do think with Brunskill we may have given the front office enough confidence to go for the big playmaker with the expectation that Brunskill can improve the RG in pass pro. But we'll see what happens.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
^^^this is true, but having the world's best WR doesn't help much if JG is getting plastered every time he drops back. That is where the chicken and the egg conundrum is OL first to protect your FR QB. We already have au Jus, Kittle, Deebo, Mostert, Coleman, Brieda, as bona fide good receivers. But we also have Jet coming back, Hurd supposedly ready, and TT coming back. Those last 3 are ???but i assume one will answer the bell, and with luck two will. If all 3 do, we are loaded.

OTOH, not protecting Jimmy is a false sense of economy. Not protecting your main man is rolling the dice. Now having some guys who can block pass pro, is one thing. But having a substitute Center and two OGs that are just flat out bad in pass pro...somehow, that just doesn't make sense. Not good sense, any way.

We took 2 WRs in two early picks last yr, one had a good yr , the other injured. Now we can no longer turn a blind eye to the elephant in the room (and on the OL)...lousy pass pro. That to me says OL at #13, altho if someone wants to move up for that pick to get a great WR, fine, we drop back 1, maybe two slots and still get our OL....and pick up a 2nd pick (in rd 2).

Then at #31 if there is a starter OL there, (even if he needs a yr of coaching up), take him...but if he can be had a couple picks later, move down, get another extra pick, and then nail down our 2nd OL pick, only 1-2 slots later. You want a WR, get him with our extra pick for moving down for OL. Or if john has a good read on an OL in mid rd 2, trade back for him.

But no matter what we have to protect our QB this yr, something we risked last yr. We got lucky, jimmy didn't get injured. We have no business doing that again this yr.

A nightmare draft for me is kyle taking WRs at #13 and #31. If he does that it will be unconscionable. I just hope JL can keep a lid on Kyle's WR demands. After 2. OLs, fire away. Take WRs. But we also need cover corners, 2 of them. Also we need a substitute for Dee Ford for when he can't go which last yr was 3/4 of the plays, 226 snaps for 16 games. And he tried to play in SB, but his hammy just wouldn't let him. So that ER needs to be basically a guy who can be coached up to start.

Honestly, by rights, it seems a better idea for kyle to depend on Hurd, Jet, and TT plus Brieda, Mostert, Wilson, Coleman, au Jus, Kittle, Deebo, and don't forget Dwelley who will be ready to be a starter TE this yr....instead of drafting yet another WR early.. If he wants a WR, take one in rds 5,6, 7. But it is short sighted to take WRs before we get our OLs, CBs, DE. Do those first and THEN do WRs. Please just don't have another pair of WRs taken in early rds.

I don't see any way that happens. Not after we used a 2nd and 3rd on Hurd. I think if we end up drafting more than 1 WR the 2nd+ would be in 5th round or later.

My guess is we draft just one. Either with 13 or 31 or one of the picks we get in a trade down from it.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
^^^this is true, but having the world's best WR doesn't help much if JG is getting plastered every time he drops back. That is where the chicken and the egg conundrum is OL first to protect your FR QB. We already have au Jus, Kittle, Deebo, Mostert, Coleman, Brieda, as bona fide good receivers. But we also have Jet coming back, Hurd supposedly ready, and TT coming back. Those last 3 are ???but i assume one will answer the bell, and with luck two will. If all 3 do, we are loaded.

OTOH, not protecting Jimmy is a false sense of economy. Not protecting your main man is rolling the dice. Now having some guys who can block pass pro, is one thing. But having a substitute Center and two OGs that are just flat out bad in pass pro...somehow, that just doesn't make sense. Not good sense, any way.

We took 2 WRs in two early picks last yr, one had a good yr , the other injured. Now we can no longer turn a blind eye to the elephant in the room (and on the OL)...lousy pass pro. That to me says OL at #13, altho if someone wants to move up for that pick to get a great WR, fine, we drop back 1, maybe two slots and still get our OL....and pick up a 2nd pick (in rd 2).

Then at #31 if there is a starter OL there, (even if he needs a yr of coaching up), take him...but if he can be had a couple picks later, move down, get another extra pick, and then nail down our 2nd OL pick, only 1-2 slots later. You want a WR, get him with our extra pick for moving down for OL. Or if john has a good read on an OL in mid rd 2, trade back for him.

But no matter what we have to protect our QB this yr, something we risked last yr. We got lucky, jimmy didn't get injured. We have no business doing that again this yr.

A nightmare draft for me is kyle taking WRs at #13 and #31. If he does that it will be unconscionable. I just hope JL can keep a lid on Kyle's WR demands. After 2. OLs, fire away. Take WRs. But we also need cover corners, 2 of them. Also we need a substitute for Dee Ford for when he can't go which last yr was 3/4 of the plays, 226 snaps for 16 games. And he tried to play in SB, but his hammy just wouldn't let him. So that ER needs to be basically a guy who can be coached up to start.

Honestly, by rights, it seems a better idea for kyle to depend on Hurd, Jet, and TT plus Brieda, Mostert, Wilson, Coleman, au Jus, Kittle, Deebo, and don't forget Dwelley who will be ready to be a starter TE this yr....instead of drafting yet another WR early.. If he wants a WR, take one in rds 5,6, 7. But it is short sighted to take WRs before we get our OLs, CBs, DE. Do those first and THEN do WRs. Please just don't have another pair of WRs taken in early rds.
While it is true that professionals work best with better equipment that notion simply doesn't apply here. Football players aren't lifeless tools or robots that are engineered to give maximum productivity 100% of the time and while Shanahan is one of the top play callers in the league there is an insurmountable number of reasons why guys don't work other than the most obvious one which is that they'll be lining up against equal or better talent across from them every Sunday, there are no New Mexico State in the league. You just can't line up guys like it's Play Station and press the X button, it's unrealistic.

I like what you've said in regards to having all those weapons. If everyone is healthy and all those names contribute the team is loaded with only one ball to go around LOL.

It's fantastic to have weapons at every offensive skill position but this league has always been and will always be a league where games are won in the trenches. It's pretty basic but a lot of intelligent folks, GMs, fail to apply it because they want to appease the fan base with a shiny toy.
Originally posted by genus49:
The thing with drafting OL at 13 is you're practically forced to start him at RG but we know Kyle doesn't consider the position that important(maybe after the SB that will change) and by not important I'm talking draft capital. Then again if they're looking ahead that the guy they take there is our LT/RT of the future when Joe retires but what happens if somehow the guy we take isn't a great fit at RG? I mean we saw McGlinchey play RG...granted with no practice due to two injuries but it wasn't pretty. And even if he could play well at RG would we be stunting his growth at OT?

Just something else to consider.

As much as I love Ruggs for us or even Jeudy at 13 if we could get a guy who could fortify our OL now and help keep it strong in the future and we can still land a very good WR to help open things up for Deebo and Kittle then sign me up.

I do think with Brunskill we may have given the front office enough confidence to go for the big playmaker with the expectation that Brunskill can improve the RG in pass pro. But we'll see what happens.
I'm not questioning your statement about Shanahan not considering the guards spots to be important. But I've read that comment previously and want to know if he has said so or why are folks saying that he doesn't? I'm curious because the interior line was an obvious weakness against the Chiefs.

Getting an O- lineman, corner and wideout by obtaining an extra pick would be the most optimal outcome.

And from what I saw I liked what Brunskill did.
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