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John Lynch - 49ers GM

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  • kem99
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 895
Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL...probably the same reason there is a contingency of fans who only support every move and non-move a FO makes (and had no plan of their own --- just tow the company line)? Or a contingency of fans who have to use extreme examples like the Rams trying to buy the L.A. market as example of what not to do...or the Vikings who solely built through the draft and failed. Extremes.

I think most in here understand and were only expecting a couple/few outside free agents on very reasonable contracts to help set themselves up best for the draft esp. in a FA market that was very reasonable with only Buckner getting the one outrageous contract...a contract the FO passed on TO free themselves up even more to attack other areas. Of which they haven't done to date.

A shortened off season would be even more reason to bring in veterans through FA...not rely on rookies.

Don't you think?
That's a fair point...but there are other considerations, like the salary cap. Because of their cap situation, the 49ers were either going to lose Armstead and perhaps get a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him this year (or a compensatory 3rd round pick next year) and then still have to sign Buckner to a bigger deal or keep Armstead and trade Buckner for a top 15 1st round pick and pay Armstead less, including significantly less in the first 3 years. Either way, they were going to lose 1 veteran. There is always going to be some turnover and the greatest value is with high picks if the team nails them. The top FA's are always over priced unless there is some other kind of issue (e.g. injury). The value is in the 2nd and 3rd tier of FAs where you are trying to get better on the fringes and increase depth and competition on your roster. And, we've seen a few of these types of the FAs signed by the 49ers have some kind of connection to Kyle and I believe there was the DL signed that had a connection to the 49ers DL coach. And, of course, the 49ers should also be looking beyond this year as well in order to stay competitive and in the SB hunt mix in 2020 and beyond.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 55,341
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Sanders got here when we played thetoughest part of our schedule. And we lost the super bowl because our wobbly pass defending oline let chris jones push them into another time zone.

anyone who blames sanders for the pass is . well.. crazy
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by RTFirefly:
When I see a GM who took over a basement dweller, completely overhauled the roster and in 3 years produced a Super Bowl caliber team, I tend to lean in the direction of giving him the benefit of the doubt and believing that he knows more about roster management than nearly anybody.

But he got there BY bringing in free agents as well esp. last year and trades. Lynch even brought in some huge contracts too.

So to dismiss that suddenly just seems outside the norm esp. when you lose key pieces like Buckner, Sanders, Person, Day, Toilolo, etc. and haven't replaced any of them yet.

We're 18th in space right now and probably the healthiest team in the NFL next year.

So you expected these losses and figured they'd add nobody by now?

The one thing I have learned about GM John is that if he doesn't do something, he has good reason. FA wasn't that great this yr and where it was, it was really pricey...Buck for example. They basically don't overpay, and don't take someone just to fill in a hole. If we have a hole (eg, OL, DB, DL, whatever), if they don't see the guy they want they keep their powder dry.

That frustrated the hell out of me, initially, but i learned. Whatever their decision is, they stay with it. And this FA i have to assume they just didn't like what they saw at WR, DB, DL, or OL, save for the one guy we did bring in. I got antsy the first two yrs but honestly, their calls have been pretty dang good. Sure i didn't care for some of kyle's wants, but he is HC and he did need lots of players. So he does get to take some guys one might say WTF was that for. But usually, excluding maybe a half dozen guys, no more, i have to go with their decisions.

I think it irks many that John isn't out front telling fans , "well, we need an OL, a DL, a #1 WR and a CB, all starters". Instead, they take their time, pass up bad deals,(usually), and get what they want...just not necessarily when WE wanted it. So NC, hang on bud, but we can both safely bet we are trading down in draft. No picks between#31 and #151,...there is just too much talent in that group not to be picking there. My guess is multiple moves.

If the 9th pick in draft excluding QBs(of which 4 go early), is a surefire #1WR/CB/DL, yup we take him. That after all is the 9th best player in the draft not a QB. And there are at least 10 of those. So i look for us to take that 9th best pick (w/out QBs), and then trade down at #31. If they aren't just Gaga over our pick at #13, or like a guy at #18 who they want, they could conceivably trade down for another later 1st plus a 2nd. Watch as we trade down thru the draft coming up.

I also bet there are at least 6, maybe 10 guys they want badly between #31 and 151...so lots and lots of swapping come draft time, always down.
  • Jcool
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 39,395
Originally posted by kem99:
Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL...probably the same reason there is a contingency of fans who only support every move and non-move a FO makes (and had no plan of their own --- just tow the company line)? Or a contingency of fans who have to use extreme examples like the Rams trying to buy the L.A. market as example of what not to do...or the Vikings who solely built through the draft and failed. Extremes.

I think most in here understand and were only expecting a couple/few outside free agents on very reasonable contracts to help set themselves up best for the draft esp. in a FA market that was very reasonable with only Buckner getting the one outrageous contract...a contract the FO passed on TO free themselves up even more to attack other areas. Of which they haven't done to date.

A shortened off season would be even more reason to bring in veterans through FA...not rely on rookies.

Don't you think?
That's a fair point...but there are other considerations, like the salary cap. Because of their cap situation, the 49ers were either going to lose Armstead and perhaps get a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him this year (or a compensatory 3rd round pick next year) and then still have to sign Buckner to a bigger deal or keep Armstead and trade Buckner for a top 15 1st round pick and pay Armstead less, including significantly less in the first 3 years. Either way, they were going to lose 1 veteran. There is always going to be some turnover and the greatest value is with high picks if the team nails them. The top FA's are always over priced unless there is some other kind of issue (e.g. injury). The value is in the 2nd and 3rd tier of FAs where you are trying to get better on the fringes and increase depth and competition on your roster. And, we've seen a few of these types of the FAs signed by the 49ers have some kind of connection to Kyle and I believe there was the DL signed that had a connection to the 49ers DL coach. And, of course, the 49ers should also be looking beyond this year as well in order to stay competitive and in the SB hunt mix in 2020 and beyond.

Definitely...was just curious on your take. Thanks for elaborating.
Originally posted by Jcool:

Thanks JCool...now i know for sure we will have a draft on April 23-25...of course, without fans, players, commish,etc. Everything goes off online,

Which brings up a question: Will the online draft make it harder to make a trade, or will it be the same? They still will take a certain amount of time for 1st round players, same for 2nd-7th, with differences in how much time on day 2 and 3. Since i think it is day 2 that we will be dealing, altho a guess would be first trading down from one of our initial 2 slots into day 2, will the art of deal making be any harder? Still the same product (football players), still the same time to consider a pick, but will it be the same for trades? Or will it be the same as if in person?

Before this was announced it seemed like it might be a bit harder online. But is it?
[ Edited by pasodoc9er on Mar 26, 2020 at 5:53 PM ]
In short, stop using the cap as an excuse for the FO choosing to be inactive in free agency. Again, these are conscious decisions.

They simply did not want to pay Buckner $21M APY. Period. So they got the most out of his value as they could.

They've gone after at least 6 free agents but they put a $ sign on each and once that line is crossed by another team, they're out, hence the constant bridesmaid theme.

This FO puts parameters around themselves within their plan and they stick to it (right or wrong).

If you've followed their moves closely the last 3 years, you'll see a literal pattern on a timeline.

It doesn't matter if it's the old or new CBA (more flexibility), they operate within their own plan parameters.

Some fans have no issues with that plan, others think the parameters are too tight and others think they shouldn't be putting any parameters up in the middle of a Superbowl window.

Where do you stand? Tow the company line and trust the process? Do whatever it takes to add as much talent as possible? In between?

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
FA wasn't that great this yr and where it was, it was really pricey...Buck for example.

Well, right out of the gate, I disagree with both of these. It was a quality FA and probably the most reasonable yet as far as cost. In fact, because of the new CBA passing and with the TV deals on 2022, you could find numerous quality starters in the $6-$10M range on 2-3 year deals.

Buckner, literally, has been the only outlandish contract this FA and one could still make a case for that that it is fair market. With nearly a $200M team cap, most quality starters are going go be in the double digit APY range. Inflation. And that's for all position groups now. So if you're still thinking you're going to get a high quality starter in the single digits, you need to adjust your thinking going forward. And next year it's expected to rise to $240M.
[ Edited by NCommand on Mar 27, 2020 at 3:31 AM ]
It didn't sound like the FO was going to $10M. Glad Jimmie stuck with us for a little less.

It seems to me Lynch and Co. have changed their approach to free agency as two big things have happened.

1) They have brought in enough of the right kind of players to actually run the offensive and defensive systems they intend to run.

2) They have used up the rollover cap money from when they started.

Lynch or Shannahan did at least one interview several years ago where he discussed #1 above. I think it was about McKinnon and maybe Juice, but the gist of the explanation was that Shannahan didn't want to run some gimic offense for several years while building up talent. He needed enough of the right guys to be able to run his offense so everyone could gain relevant experience in the rebuild phase.

Now they are in a situation where they have most everyone doing what they should most of the time, which makes it so much easier to start developing and plugging in new role players.

Regarding #2, I think this has really gotten lost in a lot of discussions. They had the extra money at a critical time where they needed to take some chances and potentially overpay for some free agents. That cushion is used up now and they are in the sustainable phase as opposed to the building phase.

The timing of it all actually worked out amazingly well.

Originally posted by Midbay:
It seems to me Lynch and Co. have changed their approach to free agency as two big things have happened.

1) They have brought in enough of the right kind of players to actually run the offensive and defensive systems they intend to run.

2) They have used up the rollover cap money from when they started.

Lynch or Shannahan did at least one interview several years ago where he discussed #1 above. I think it was about McKinnon and maybe Juice, but the gist of the explanation was that Shannahan didn't want to run some gimic offense for several years while building up talent. He needed enough of the right guys to be able to run his offense so everyone could gain relevant experience in the rebuild phase.

Now they are in a situation where they have most everyone doing what they should most of the time, which makes it so much easier to start developing and plugging in new role players.

Regarding #2, I think this has really gotten lost in a lot of discussions. They had the extra money at a critical time where they needed to take some chances and potentially overpay for some free agents. That cushion is used up now and they are in the sustainable phase as opposed to the building phase.

The timing of it all actually worked out amazingly well.

Really nice post and perspective.

#1, building up culture and systems first was key. Like you noted. They needed a couple veteran FA players on each position group to help lay that foundation.

As to #2, Paraag front loaded everything including $37M to Garoppolo in year 1 so maintaining going forward would be far easier. Many FQB contracts can sink a team or make it way less competitive.

Because it's so young (3 years into a rebuild) and Paraag front loaded everything, the rollover $ is gone BUT 44 of the 53 are already locked up for next year and we're expected to have over $62M. Ideal situation.

A potential Superbowl roster with total financial freedom and a FQB paid for.

This is why Paraag is now back loading a couple guys like AA and Ward.
[ Edited by NCommand on Mar 27, 2020 at 7:56 AM ]
The team is setting up to win over a longer time period. Sure, I hated to see DeFo go but it was the right move. I watched the SB last night for the first time and I came away with several observations, one, we were so close, two the KC QB is great but he got lucky. Third and 15? I'd like to see the percentages of this succeeding, I'm sure it's very low. Third down at the goal line, pass interference, ball at the one. Another play that the Chiefs lucked out on. I did not count any holding calls on the Chiefs, they held the entire game. I refused to watch until last night, they were THISCLOSE.
Member Milestone: This is post number 200 for Midbay.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Midbay:
It seems to me Lynch and Co. have changed their approach to free agency as two big things have happened.

1) They have brought in enough of the right kind of players to actually run the offensive and defensive systems they intend to run.

2) They have used up the rollover cap money from when they started.

Lynch or Shannahan did at least one interview several years ago where he discussed #1 above. I think it was about McKinnon and maybe Juice, but the gist of the explanation was that Shannahan didn't want to run some gimic offense for several years while building up talent. He needed enough of the right guys to be able to run his offense so everyone could gain relevant experience in the rebuild phase.

Now they are in a situation where they have most everyone doing what they should most of the time, which makes it so much easier to start developing and plugging in new role players.

Regarding #2, I think this has really gotten lost in a lot of discussions. They had the extra money at a critical time where they needed to take some chances and potentially overpay for some free agents. That cushion is used up now and they are in the sustainable phase as opposed to the building phase.

The timing of it all actually worked out amazingly well.

Really nice post and perspective.

#1, building up culture and systems first was key. Like you noted. They needed a couple veteran FA players on each position group to help lay that foundation.

As to #2, Paraag front loaded everything including $37M to Garoppolo in year 1 so maintaining going forward would be far easier. Many FQB contracts can sink a team or make it way less competitive.

Because it's so young (3 years into a rebuild) and Paraag front loaded everything, the rollover $ is gone BUT 44 of the 53 are already locked up for next year and we're expected to have over $62M. Ideal situation.

A potential Superbowl roster with total financial freedom and a FQB paid for.

This is why Paraag is now back loading a couple guys like AA and Ward.

Thanks NCommand, and I just remembered one of the others for #1...

...wait for it...

Brian Hoyer !!!!!!!!!

Remember when some posters were mercilessly mocking Shannahan for bringing in Hoyer?!?

These guys had a plan!
Originally posted by RishikeshA:
The team is setting up to win over a longer time period. Sure, I hated to see DeFo go but it was the right move. I watched the SB last night for the first time and I came away with several observations, one, we were so close, two the KC QB is great but he got lucky. Third and 15? I'd like to see the percentages of this succeeding, I'm sure it's very low. Third down at the goal line, pass interference, ball at the one. Another play that the Chiefs lucked out on. I did not count any holding calls on the Chiefs, they held the entire game. I refused to watch until last night, they were THISCLOSE.

Seriously!!!

ShanaLynch both said the felt they were the better team so I could see them thinking they can just rest on their laurels and add a couple starters in the draft and sign as many in-house players as possible. Boom. Done. Cap health.

We'll see if that was accurate with Seattle and the Cards in our division, Saints and Tampa in the NFC and Chiefs and Ravens (esp.) competing with each other.

It won't be easy!
Originally posted by Midbay:
Thanks NCommand, and I just remembered one of the others for #1...

...wait for it...

Brian Hoyer !!!!!!!!!

Remember when some posters were mercilessly mocking Shannahan for bringing in Hoyer?!?

These guys had a plan!

LMAO. Totally. I'll never forget a reporter asking Lynch if Hoyer could be a long term starter and he literally laughed out loud. Clearly he was brought in to help establish the culture, run the offense a tad and start modeling it for the rookies.
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