Finally: The 49ers Offense WCO!!!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Jiks:

Originally posted by thl408:
Check out the pass at 13:20 of the 3rd quarter. That's the kind of throw/catch that Flacco/Torrey made routine, but never happened with the 49ers. Ryan threw it with confidence way before the WR made his break to beat the blitz on 3rd and 10.

I haven't really even thought about Torrey but he could be a solid piece in a true WCO. Obviously his route running is suspect, but his ability to take the top off at any given moment might make him useful once defenses start playing closer to the LOS.

Shanahan used to tell Hoyer, "You need a big-time, playmaking 'X' (split end) in this offense." He has Julio Jones now. Hoyer says, "Kyle always wanted a guy who was really, really fast." He has Taylor Gabriel in Atlanta. Hoyer remembers how Shanahan wanted pass-catching backs. Enter Devonta Freeman and Tevin Coleman.

http://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2017/01/19/qb-that-worked-with-kyle-shanahan-compares-him-to-bill-belichick/

There are two routes that Torrey does well - the Go route (9 route), and what John Harbaugh referred to as "stop 9", which is sell the 9, stop, and come back to the ball. In the pass play I referenced above, Gabriel ran a stop 9. Ryan released the pass before Gabreil even began his break.

What formations are we going to see most out of Kyle..,

Any fullback in his offense? Mike Shanahan was kinda going away from that with Steve on some plays as early as '94

Drafting Corey Davis and Marlon Mack would help get this offense moving in the right direction. If for some reason Josh Gordon got reinstated I'd bring him in and hire somebody to be the "why don't you stand there and make sure I don't do anything stupid" guy.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Jiks:

Originally posted by thl408:
Check out the pass at 13:20 of the 3rd quarter. That's the kind of throw/catch that Flacco/Torrey made routine, but never happened with the 49ers. Ryan threw it with confidence way before the WR made his break to beat the blitz on 3rd and 10.

I haven't really even thought about Torrey but he could be a solid piece in a true WCO. Obviously his route running is suspect, but his ability to take the top off at any given moment might make him useful once defenses start playing closer to the LOS.

Shanahan used to tell Hoyer, "You need a big-time, playmaking 'X' (split end) in this offense." He has Julio Jones now. Hoyer says, "Kyle always wanted a guy who was really, really fast." He has Taylor Gabriel in Atlanta. Hoyer remembers how Shanahan wanted pass-catching backs. Enter Devonta Freeman and Tevin Coleman.

http://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2017/01/19/qb-that-worked-with-kyle-shanahan-compares-him-to-bill-belichick/

There are two routes that Torrey does well - the Go route (9 route), and what John Harbaugh referred to as "stop 9", which is sell the 9, stop, and come back to the ball. In the pass play I referenced above, Gabriel ran a stop 9. Ryan released the pass before Gabreil even began his break.

I really want to see how Shannahan will use Patton and Ellington. They are very similar to Taylor Gabriel.

I'm not high on Torrey at all. I think he provides very little to an offense and that doesn't give a valid enough reason for him to be on the field for so many snaps. He is too one-dimensional. One player who definitely needs to be replaced is Torrey. His position should be able to run all the routes effectively along with being moved around in different positions.

I think Torrey will be good for us as one of the guys in a receiver group. He's not going to carry the group.

Originally posted by Joecool:
I really want to see how Shannahan will use Patton and Ellington. They are very similar to Taylor Gabriel.

I'm not high on Torrey at all. I think he provides very little to an offense and that doesn't give a valid enough reason for him to be on the field for so many snaps. He is too one-dimensional. One player who definitely needs to be replaced is Torrey. His position should be able to run all the routes effectively along with being moved around in different positions.

Torrey was never that player. I think your expectations are too high. You can say he is overpaid, but he was never a "#1 WR" that can run the entire route tree. He is sloppy when exiting out of his break and I don't think he'll ever fix that if he hasn't by now. Put him on the weakside and make him run Go routes and complimentary routes off of that. Anyway, not trying to derail this thread.

And the real 21st Century evolution of it, not the lip service Schembechler variety!



Obviously the roster has to be built towards it, but this is a system that is sustainable over a long period. None of this gimmicky offense that is too reliant on small trends with short term success.

With this franchise, the WCO has been the last resort since the firing of Mariucci. The 49'ers abandoned what made the club the best and the most exciting. Since then, the club has been consigned to a purgatory of reinventing the wheel every year with inferior schemes. Now that we've returned to the system of the elites, we have a chance to build.

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
What formations are we going to see most out of Kyle..,

Any fullback in his offense? Mike Shanahan was kinda going away from that with Steve on some plays as early as '94

This sounds odd, but you're going to see a number of formations similar to HaRoman. He did a great job in the Sea game of moving different players around to give Ryan clear, defined reads and/or defined pre-snap coverage. This allowed Ryan, on multiple occasions, to know where the ball was going before the snap and speeds up that anticipation type throw.

For example: The play Thl mentioned in the 3rd on a "stop 9" route. They started with a trips set to the opposite side of the field with Julio split wide and Sherman on him. They flexed the TE out to the slot and had a WR inside of him. With a LB moved out on the TE, it showed man-coverage. This then isolated the Falcons fastest receiver on their #2 corner with no safety help. This is what helped the receiver gain more separation on his "stop 9" as the corner would be trying to play over-the-top. So, with that information given to the QB pre-snap, Ryan then just has to execute his footwork and put the ball on the money, which he did.

There were also other plays. For example:
When the Falcons were backed up to their own 1 yard line, they came out in "21" personnel but then flexed the FB and RB out wide. People slammed Harbaugh for doing that with Bruce Miller, but it gives clear defined looks pre-snap. With a RB split wide and Sherman over him, they had Julio in the slot to that side. With zone coverage presented and a clear single safety it was either a cover 3 zone or 3 deep fire-zone. It was a fire-zone and that isolated Julio Jones on a LB on an "ohio" concept. Again, the clear look allowed Ryan to take a quick 3 step drop and get the ball out just as the receiver was coming out of his break.

I'll be doing a full breakdown of the game at some point either today or tomorrow but there were a lot of things I really liked.

Would rather lose while playing the WCO than lose playing whatever offense we have been using for a while now.

There is no doubt in my mind that Shanahan will have a good offensive system but besides Carlos Hyde we have no one to run it.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Joecool:
I really want to see how Shannahan will use Patton and Ellington. They are very similar to Taylor Gabriel.

I'm not high on Torrey at all. I think he provides very little to an offense and that doesn't give a valid enough reason for him to be on the field for so many snaps. He is too one-dimensional. One player who definitely needs to be replaced is Torrey. His position should be able to run all the routes effectively along with being moved around in different positions.

Torrey was never that player. I think your expectations are too high. You can say he is overpaid, but he was never a "#1 WR" that can run the entire route tree. He is sloppy when exiting out of his break and I don't think he'll ever fix that if he hasn't by now. Put him on the weakside and make him run Go routes and complimentary routes off of that. Anyway, not trying to derail this thread.

Agree wholeheartedly on T. Smith. That's pretty much how BAL used him. I think he could be used similarly to how Gabriel was used in ATL.

JC...there's definitely cause for excitement. Would love to see Shanahan bring in someone like Rick Dennison to be his OC (although we all know he'll be somewhat involved in the play-calling). Hope he keeps Rathman...if so, TR would likely set some kind of NFL asst coaching record for sticking with the team through so many HC's in succession. The return to the WCO means for sure Shanahan will lobby hard to beef up our RB corps and OL. The OL's not in all that bad of shape, really, especially when you consider the youth of Brown & Garnett. Still, they'll need better depth, most likely. I think the GM position is Gutekunst's to lose...and I'd love to be a fly on the wall when he & Shanahan sit down to talk about the off-season game plan.

Originally posted by captveg:

And the real 21st Century evolution of it, not the lip service Schembechler variety!



Obviously the roster has to be built towards it, but this is a system that is sustainable over a long period. None of this gimmicky offense that is too reliant on small trends with short term success.

Glad WCO is coming back.! It will take some time for sure and need some players on the next couple of drafts and free agencies. We just need to sit back and be patient as it is a process We got some nice young players that just need experience and coaching. Defensively, a couple of players (NT,ILB,,OLB are the most glaring needs) and a better scheming D coordinator. Offensively, I wouldn't mind investing most of our draft picks on this side of the ball. QB,WR,TE to get them rolling in the right direction.

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
JC...there's definitely cause for excitement. Would love to see Shanahan bring in someone like Rick Dennison to be his OC (although we all know he'll be somewhat involved in the play-calling). Hope he keeps Rathman...if so, TR would likely set some kind of NFL asst coaching record for sticking with the team through so many HC's in succession. The return to the WCO means for sure Shanahan will lobby hard to beef up our RB corps and OL. The OL's not in all that bad of shape, really, especially when you consider the youth of Brown & Garnett. Still, they'll need better depth, most likely. I think the GM position is Gutekunst's to lose...and I'd love to be a fly on the wall when he & Shanahan sit down to talk about the off-season game plan.

I'm really intrigued about the possibility of Jeff Garcia as our QB coach. Not sure if he would want to or not, but Shanny's version of the WCO is very similar to his dads, which was very similar to Mariucci's, which Garcia ran.