2015 49ers Training Camp Thread

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by ltrain:
That NFL network live look at the 49ers practice was a joke. Just recited all the players who retired or left the team and then moved on to next team. More of the same "we'll find out" if they can be replaced.

Absolute joke is an understatement. Mooch's 'report' was even worse. He said we lost 12 starters and 5 WR's. WTF? That's ALL these tools can focus on...the familiar names (even went so far to list every loss).

In the same breath they say the league turns over 30% in free agency. We lost '12 starters' / 53 = 23%. And most of those 12 'starters' ended the year on I.R.

In the grand scheme of things, the only real 'loss' from a production standpoint and timing (after FA and the draft) was Anthony Davis (assuming Bowman and Wilhoite remain healthy).

Can you seriously not comprehend the magnitude of turnover this team has seen in one offseason? One Houston Chronicle writer said he's never seen an offseason like this from a team; I said the same thing several months ago.

Even if you're optimistic that the changes will work out and that the season will be a success, I don't understand how you guys can minimize the nature of just how much change this organization has gone through and how you can be baffled that this is what the media is focusing on. You're really distilling it all down so much as to say our only real loss was Anthony Davis?! I'm sorry but that's abusrd.

Do you really think the NFL Network is going to cover Lawrence Okoye's third year in the NFL or the chances of Dres Anderson's making the roster? Come on...

Oh God...here we go. Some guy in Houston who too, is only familiar with "names" not actual production, talent and depth on the roster (see Cossell, Clayton and Jeremiah if you need a 'national media perspective').

Crabtree? This is a loss? Really?
Justin Smith? One arm, second year ending on I.R. and played only 60% of the snaps. He retired b/c he couldn't physically perform anymore.
P.Willy? Hasn't been the same since 2011 (like Justin) and as we've proven, plug anyone in at ILB and they produce big for us.
Borland? Huge upside, downside physically and mentally and he plays the same position as Bowman (i.e. he is NOT a fit for the TED at all).
McDonald? He was already axed and we used our worst DE in TJE in his place and STILL finished top 7 against the run.
Gore? 32 year old RB who's one-dimensional in the running game and is now being asked to basically pass protect for the Colts (reports came out that he'd run far less there).
Davis? Huge loss b/c of the timing of it and his upside. But let's face it, his fat ass was NOT going to get in shape and meet the weight goal for the new ZBS. His sorry ass would rather sit on Twitter all day and watch from afar.
Culliver & Cox? Culliver is a very sound player but also played very cautiously in run support after his concussion and he was way overpaid; Cox came back down to earth the second half of the season.
Iupati? Excellent one-trick pony. Pull right in power and he's golden. Anything else and you're screwed. WAY overpaid.

Anyone else? The bottom line is your are looking at these 'icons' from the full glass of 2011 at their peaks and that's not even close to reality HAD they crawled onto the field for us in 2015. I actually respect that they retired...that's a very noble thing IMHO.

If you haven't noticed, our DL has a chance to be BETTER than last year (top 7). OLB is off the charts great and deep. Secondary has talent all over the place and can be used in multiple personnel settings (big, physical, experienced, quick, fast, versatile, etc.). RB is the most diverse and talented than we may have ever had...WR, same concept. Really, the ONLY area of concern in terms of talent is the OL (naturally) and a few still have concerns about the two CB's which I don't understand with Baalke doing the pickings. Coaching? One of the most experienced coaching staffs in the entire NFL and reports are they have been addressing all the same issues we addressed in here for over 2+ years in the HaRoman era. That's a good thing.

But for me, the season comes down to the OL. If we can somehow secure that to play at even an average level, we're going to be a very very good team (or at least have the ability to be right in the hunt). It's not like this team has ever been devoid of talent. Talent has never been the issue here...coaching, development, personnel choices and game management has (and those are all being addressed now).

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by ltrain:
That NFL network live look at the 49ers practice was a joke. Just recited all the players who retired or left the team and then moved on to next team. More of the same "we'll find out" if they can be replaced.

Absolute joke is an understatement. Mooch's 'report' was even worse. He said we lost 12 starters and 5 WR's. WTF? That's ALL these tools can focus on...the familiar names (even went so far to list every loss).

In the same breath they say the league turns over 30% in free agency. We lost '12 starters' / 53 = 23%. And most of those 12 'starters' ended the year on I.R.

In the grand scheme of things, the only real 'loss' from a production standpoint and timing (after FA and the draft) was Anthony Davis (assuming Bowman and Wilhoite remain healthy).

Can you seriously not comprehend the magnitude of turnover this team has seen in one offseason? One Houston Chronicle writer said he's never seen an offseason like this from a team; I said the same thing several months ago.

Even if you're optimistic that the changes will work out and that the season will be a success, I don't understand how you guys can minimize the nature of just how much change this organization has gone through and how you can be baffled that this is what the media is focusing on. You're really distilling it all down so much as to say our only real loss was Anthony Davis?! I'm sorry but that's absurd.

Do you really think the NFL Network is going to cover Lawrence Okoye's third year in the NFL or the chances of Dres Anderson's making the roster? Come on...

Just laziness from NFL Network. They loss a bunch of guys, they have no chance, move on.

But they could have included Bowman coming back healthy from a gruesome injury. And a lot of young and hungry guys wanting to start in the NFL. 5+ minutes on that won't kill any ratings. How about the inclusion of Boldin and Torrey Smith together again from Baltimore to the Niners. Even Kaep and VD trying to get back to a good level of play after last year.

Originally posted by natrone06:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by ltrain:
That NFL network live look at the 49ers practice was a joke. Just recited all the players who retired or left the team and then moved on to next team. More of the same "we'll find out" if they can be replaced.

Absolute joke is an understatement. Mooch's 'report' was even worse. He said we lost 12 starters and 5 WR's. WTF? That's ALL these tools can focus on...the familiar names (even went so far to list every loss).

In the same breath they say the league turns over 30% in free agency. We lost '12 starters' / 53 = 23%. And most of those 12 'starters' ended the year on I.R.

In the grand scheme of things, the only real 'loss' from a production standpoint and timing (after FA and the draft) was Anthony Davis (assuming Bowman and Wilhoite remain healthy).

Can you seriously not comprehend the magnitude of turnover this team has seen in one offseason? One Houston Chronicle writer said he's never seen an offseason like this from a team; I said the same thing several months ago.

Even if you're optimistic that the changes will work out and that the season will be a success, I don't understand how you guys can minimize the nature of just how much change this organization has gone through and how you can be baffled that this is what the media is focusing on. You're really distilling it all down so much as to say our only real loss was Anthony Davis?! I'm sorry but that's absurd.

Do you really think the NFL Network is going to cover Lawrence Okoye's third year in the NFL or the chances of Dres Anderson's making the roster? Come on...

I think when you realize Patrick Willis played 6 games last year (bowman returning), Justin smith was a shell of his former self (still have a deep and talented front 7), and we have a young stud in Carlos Hyde replacing gore(Not to mention Hunter and Bush) its not nearly the catastrophe the casual national media makes it out to be.

Willis played 6 games last year--Weren't we 8-8 last year? Pointing to the fact that he missed most of the season doesn't help the argument here.
Justin Smith a shell of his former self--That's a little harsh; he certainly wasn't up to his 2011 standard but even at a peg down, J. Smith is still better than most of the league.
Deep and talented front 7--Potential? Absolutely. But the only ones that have proven themselves are Dorsey and Ian Williams, and both have had injuries crop up. Quintin Dial has boat loads of potential but let's call it what it is...unproven potential.
A young stud in Carlos Hyde--Impressive debut for sure, but it's a little quick to anoint him a stud. He ran behind Gore and his YPC average when carrying the ball 9 times or more in a game was 2.7. Gonna have to see how he responds to being the lead dog.
Bush--Constantly injured; getting long in the tooth. Hopefully stays healthy and still has the explosiveness for big play potential out of the backfield
Hunter--LOVED this kid after 2011 and has been a true shame to see his career derailed by injury early on. Hoping for the best and if not for the injuries, he may be the most talented back on the team right now. Have to see how he holds up and what kind of role he carves out.

I'm just trying to set realistic expectations. It seems like many on here are spewing a lot of conjecture about players who have riddled pasts or are still unknown commodities.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by ltrain:
That NFL network live look at the 49ers practice was a joke. Just recited all the players who retired or left the team and then moved on to next team. More of the same "we'll find out" if they can be replaced.

Absolute joke is an understatement. Mooch's 'report' was even worse. He said we lost 12 starters and 5 WR's. WTF? That's ALL these tools can focus on...the familiar names (even went so far to list every loss).

In the same breath they say the league turns over 30% in free agency. We lost '12 starters' / 53 = 23%. And most of those 12 'starters' ended the year on I.R.

In the grand scheme of things, the only real 'loss' from a production standpoint and timing (after FA and the draft) was Anthony Davis (assuming Bowman and Wilhoite remain healthy).

Can you seriously not comprehend the magnitude of turnover this team has seen in one offseason? One Houston Chronicle writer said he's never seen an offseason like this from a team; I said the same thing several months ago.

Even if you're optimistic that the changes will work out and that the season will be a success, I don't understand how you guys can minimize the nature of just how much change this organization has gone through and how you can be baffled that this is what the media is focusing on. You're really distilling it all down so much as to say our only real loss was Anthony Davis?! I'm sorry but that's abusrd.

Do you really think the NFL Network is going to cover Lawrence Okoye's third year in the NFL or the chances of Dres Anderson's making the roster? Come on...

Oh God...here we go. Some guy in Houston who too, is only familiar with "names" not actual production, talent and depth on the roster (see Cossell, Clayton and Jeremiah if you need a 'national media perspective').

Crabtree? This is a loss? Really?
Justin Smith? One arm, second year ending on I.R. and played only 60% of the snaps. He retired b/c he couldn't physically perform anymore.
P.Willy? Hasn't been the same since 2011 (like Justin) and as we've proven, plug anyone in at ILB and they produce big for us.
Borland? Huge upside, downside physically and mentally and he plays the same position as Bowman (i.e. he is NOT a fit for the TED at all).
McDonald? He was already axed and we used our worst DE in TJE in his place and STILL finished top 7 against the run.
Gore? 32 year old RB who's one-dimensional in the running game and is now being asked to basically pass protect for the Colts (reports came out that he'd run far less there).
Davis? Huge loss b/c of the timing of it and his upside. But let's face it, his fat ass was NOT going to get in shape and meet the weight goal for the new ZBS. His sorry ass would rather sit on Twitter all day and watch from afar.
Culliver & Cox? Culliver is a very sound player but also played very cautiously in run support after his concussion and he was way overpaid; Cox came back down to earth the second half of the season.
Iupati? Excellent one-trick pony. Pull right in power and he's golden. Anything else and you're screwed. WAY overpaid.

Anyone else? The bottom line is your are looking at these 'icons' from the full glass of 2011 at their peaks and that's not even close to reality HAD they crawled onto the field for us in 2015. I actually respect that they retired...that's a very noble thing IMHO.

If you haven't noticed, our DL has a chance to be BETTER than last year (top 7). OLB is off the charts great and deep. Secondary has talent all over the place and can be used in multiple personnel settings (big, physical, experienced, quick, fast, versatile, etc.). RB is the most diverse and talented than we may have ever had...WR, same concept. Really, the ONLY area of concern in terms of talent is the OL (naturally) and a few still have concerns about the two CB's which I don't understand with Baalke doing the pickings. Coaching? One of the most experienced coaching staffs in the entire NFL and reports are they have been addressing all the same issues we addressed in here for over 2 years in the HaRoman era. That's a good thing.

But for me, the season comes down to the OL. If we can somehow secure that to play at even an average level, we're going to be a very very good team (or at least have the ability to be right in the hunt). It's not like this team has ever been devoid of talent. Talent has never been the issue here...coaching, development, personnel choices and game management has (and those are all being addressed now).

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Just laziness from NFL Network. They loss a bunch of guys, they have no chance, move on.

But they could have included Bowman coming back healthy from a gruesome injury. And a lot of young and hungry guys wanting to start in the NFL. 5+ minutes on that won't kill any ratings. How about the inclusion of Boldin and Torrey Smith together again from Baltimore to the Niners. Even Kaep and VD trying to get back to a good level of play after last year.

They only dedicate that type of time to Dallas............

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
Willis played 6 games last year--Weren't we 8-8 last year? Pointing to the fact that he missed most of the season doesn't help the argument here.
Justin Smith a shell of his former self--That's a little harsh; he certainly wasn't up to his 2011 standard but even at a peg down, J. Smith is still better than most of the league.
Deep and talented front 7--Potential? Absolutely. But the only ones that have proven themselves are Dorsey and Ian Williams, and both have had injuries crop up. Quintin Dial has boat loads of potential but let's call it what it is...unproven potential.
A young stud in Carlos Hyde--Impressive debut for sure, but it's a little quick to anoint him a stud. He ran behind Gore and his YPC average when carrying the ball 9 times or more in a game was 2.7. Gonna have to see how he responds to being the lead dog.
Bush--Constantly injured; getting long in the tooth. Hopefully stays healthy and still has the explosiveness for big play potential out of the backfield
Hunter--LOVED this kid after 2011 and has been a true shame to see his career derailed by injury early on. Hoping for the best and if not for the injuries, he may be the most talented back on the team right now. Have to see how he holds up and what kind of role he carves out.

I'm just trying to set realistic expectations. It seems like many on here are spewing a lot of conjecture about players who have riddled pasts or are still unknown commodities.

You gloom and doom guys like to call yourself realistic, but realistically, you don't have any more of a clue than anyone else. You're just being a pessimist, not a realist. Let's call it what it is.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by ltrain:
That NFL network live look at the 49ers practice was a joke. Just recited all the players who retired or left the team and then moved on to next team. More of the same "we'll find out" if they can be replaced.

Absolute joke is an understatement. Mooch's 'report' was even worse. He said we lost 12 starters and 5 WR's. WTF? That's ALL these tools can focus on...the familiar names (even went so far to list every loss).

In the same breath they say the league turns over 30% in free agency. We lost '12 starters' / 53 = 23%. And most of those 12 'starters' ended the year on I.R.

In the grand scheme of things, the only real 'loss' from a production standpoint and timing (after FA and the draft) was Anthony Davis (assuming Bowman and Wilhoite remain healthy).

Can you seriously not comprehend the magnitude of turnover this team has seen in one offseason? One Houston Chronicle writer said he's never seen an offseason like this from a team; I said the same thing several months ago.

Even if you're optimistic that the changes will work out and that the season will be a success, I don't understand how you guys can minimize the nature of just how much change this organization has gone through and how you can be baffled that this is what the media is focusing on. You're really distilling it all down so much as to say our only real loss was Anthony Davis?! I'm sorry but that's abusrd.

Do you really think the NFL Network is going to cover Lawrence Okoye's third year in the NFL or the chances of Dres Anderson's making the roster? Come on...

Oh God...here we go. Some guy in Houston who too, is only familiar with "names" not actual production, talent and depth on the roster (see Cossell, Clayton and Jeremiah if you need a 'national media perspective').

Crabtree? This is a loss? Really?
Justin Smith? One arm, second year ending on I.R. and played only 60% of the snaps. He retired b/c he couldn't physically perform anymore.
P.Willy? Hasn't been the same since 2011 (like Justin) and as we've proven, plug anyone in at ILB and they produce big for us.
Borland? Huge upside, downside physically and mentally and he plays the same position as Bowman (i.e. he is NOT a fit for the TED at all).
McDonald? He was already axed and we used our worst DE in TJE in his place and STILL finished top 7 against the run.
Gore? 32 year old RB who's one-dimensional in the running game and is now being asked to basically pass protect for the Colts (reports came out that he'd run far less there).
Davis? Huge loss b/c of the timing of it and his upside. But let's face it, his fat ass was NOT going to get in shape and meet the weight goal for the new ZBS. His sorry ass would rather sit on Twitter all day and watch from afar.
Culliver & Cox? Culliver is a very sound player but also played very cautiously in run support after his concussion and he was way overpaid; Cox came back down to earth the second half of the season.
Iupati? Excellent one-trick pony. Pull right in power and he's golden. Anything else and you're screwed. WAY overpaid.

Anyone else? The bottom line is your are looking at these 'icons' from the full glass of 2011 at their peaks and that's not even close to reality HAD they crawled onto the field for us in 2015. I actually respect that they retired...that's a very noble thing IMHO.

If you haven't noticed, our DL has a chance to be BETTER than last year (top 7). OLB is off the charts great and deep. Secondary has talent all over the place and can be used in multiple personnel settings (big, physical, experienced, quick, fast, versatile, etc.). RB is the most diverse and talented than we may have ever had...WR, same concept. Really, the ONLY area of concern in terms of talent is the OL (naturally) and a few still have concerns about the two CB's which I don't understand with Baalke doing the pickings. Coaching? One of the most experienced coaching staffs in the entire NFL and reports are they have been addressing all the same issues we addressed in here for over 2+ years in the HaRoman era. That's a good thing.

But for me, the season comes down to the OL. If we can somehow secure that to play at even an average level, we're going to be a very very good team (or at least have the ability to be right in the hunt). It's not like this team has ever been devoid of talent. Talent has never been the issue here...coaching, development, personnel choices and game management has (and those are all being addressed now).

Well I just can't rationally minimize the contributions of perennial pro bowlers and I'm not basing that on their past. I'm basing it on their presence in the locker room, and the significant contributions they were still making to the team (even if they weren't at their very best). Salient points about all those players, for sure, but you're cherry-picking exactly what they didn't do well or why it's fine that they moved on and not also recognizing what they brought to the table--especially Gore, who was a top ten running back last season.

You're also assuming the fact that this coaching staff is going to right every ill that Harbaugh's staff supposedly created. That's a HUGE assumption. Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely? That comes down to a matter of opinion. Is it definite? Not in the slightest. I personally don't think a defensive line coach, Eric Mangini, Tony Sparano, and some dude named Geep (a holdover from the last regime who got a promotion since no one else wanted the job) have the chops to make all of it work--at the very least, not in one offseason given all the aforementioned changes (coupled with Baalke breathing down his neck and York comparing him to Steve Kerr already).

With change comes excitement. I'm most definitely excited for the season but that excitement is also tempered with trepidation. Generally speaking, history has not been kind to the majority of organizations who experience this kind of thing. That's why people are focused on it. They're not "haters" or "naysayers".

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
Willis played 6 games last year--Weren't we 8-8 last year? Pointing to the fact that he missed most of the season doesn't help the argument here.
Justin Smith a shell of his former self--That's a little harsh; he certainly wasn't up to his 2011 standard but even at a peg down, J. Smith is still better than most of the league.
Deep and talented front 7--Potential? Absolutely. But the only ones that have proven themselves are Dorsey and Ian Williams, and both have had injuries crop up. Quintin Dial has boat loads of potential but let's call it what it is...unproven potential.
A young stud in Carlos Hyde--Impressive debut for sure, but it's a little quick to anoint him a stud. He ran behind Gore and his YPC average when carrying the ball 9 times or more in a game was 2.7. Gonna have to see how he responds to being the lead dog.
Bush--Constantly injured; getting long in the tooth. Hopefully stays healthy and still has the explosiveness for big play potential out of the backfield
Hunter--LOVED this kid after 2011 and has been a true shame to see his career derailed by injury early on. Hoping for the best and if not for the injuries, he may be the most talented back on the team right now. Have to see how he holds up and what kind of role he carves out.

I'm just trying to set realistic expectations. It seems like many on here are spewing a lot of conjecture about players who have riddled pasts or are still unknown commodities.

You gloom and doom guys like to call yourself realistic, but realistically, you don't have any more of a clue than anyone else. You're just being a pessimist, not a realist. Let's call it what it is.

I spoke a lot about potential and talent for being so "doom and gloom". I also admitted that I don't have anymore of a clue than anyone else. That's the whole point. There are too many unknowns to be so certain of success. There are too many unknowns to be so certain of failure too. But usually a team with so many changes and question marks has a greater chance of failure than success; especially when coupled with a complete rehaul of a coaching staff.

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
I spoke a lot about potential and talent for being so "doom and gloom". I also admitted that I don't have anymore of a clue than anyone else. That's the whole point. There are too many unknowns to be so certain of success. There are too many unknowns to be so certain of failure too. But usually a team with so many changes and question marks has a greater chance of failure than success; especially when coupled with a complete rehaul of a coaching staff.

They are mostly held over. Which you just mentioned in your previous post

With some additions.

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by ltrain:
That NFL network live look at the 49ers practice was a joke. Just recited all the players who retired or left the team and then moved on to next team. More of the same "we'll find out" if they can be replaced.

Absolute joke is an understatement. Mooch's 'report' was even worse. He said we lost 12 starters and 5 WR's. WTF? That's ALL these tools can focus on...the familiar names (even went so far to list every loss).

In the same breath they say the league turns over 30% in free agency. We lost '12 starters' / 53 = 23%. And most of those 12 'starters' ended the year on I.R.

In the grand scheme of things, the only real 'loss' from a production standpoint and timing (after FA and the draft) was Anthony Davis (assuming Bowman and Wilhoite remain healthy).

Can you seriously not comprehend the magnitude of turnover this team has seen in one offseason? One Houston Chronicle writer said he's never seen an offseason like this from a team; I said the same thing several months ago.

Even if you're optimistic that the changes will work out and that the season will be a success, I don't understand how you guys can minimize the nature of just how much change this organization has gone through and how you can be baffled that this is what the media is focusing on. You're really distilling it all down so much as to say our only real loss was Anthony Davis?! I'm sorry but that's absurd.

Do you really think the NFL Network is going to cover Lawrence Okoye's third year in the NFL or the chances of Dres Anderson's making the roster? Come on...

How about you step back an actually look at who we lost?

• Gore-32 year old RB which they have replacements set in place.
• J Smith-A beast but was running around with one-arm for a couple seasons, plus younger players were set in place.
• Willis-hasn't been healthy for 3 seasons. MW has been fine and if BO comes back 100% we still have one of the best LB cores in the league.
• Borland-small sample size and couldn't stay healthy for 6 games (huge reason he dropped in draft was because of injury issues)
• Davis-Sucks losing him but he was also out the whole season last year, and he's even talked about coming back next season (we have his rights).
• Crabtree-Smith is a upgrade really nothing to talk about here.
• Cully/Cox-I wanted to resign Cully but not for $8 million a year...throw in that Baalke has brought in over 6 DBs in the past year and we've been doing this for years now an have always had a top 10 secondary.
• Iupati: Great run-blocker but probably one of the worst pass blocking OG's on the team...not worth what he got paid IMO.

Out of that bunch (in their stage of their career) A Davis IMO was the biggest loss....do fans and analyst fail to realize that Baalke has drafted over 30 players the past couple years and over half never saw the field because of old vets, bloated contracts, and a coaching staff that didn't like putting in rookies?

How about we focus on (an the media) ALL those younger players, instead of the old and injured vets we lost?? Why can't they talk about all the speed at the skilled positions? (something we've never had), How deep our DL is, having one of the best pair of safeties in the league, having one of the best defensive players in Bowman coming back and looking good, or the fact that they want to run a uptempo offense an incorporate some ZBS?

I will say one of my biggest concerns is the OL and I'm on the bandwagon of getting Mathis.

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by natrone06:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by ltrain:
That NFL network live look at the 49ers practice was a joke. Just recited all the players who retired or left the team and then moved on to next team. More of the same "we'll find out" if they can be replaced.

Absolute joke is an understatement. Mooch's 'report' was even worse. He said we lost 12 starters and 5 WR's. WTF? That's ALL these tools can focus on...the familiar names (even went so far to list every loss).

In the same breath they say the league turns over 30% in free agency. We lost '12 starters' / 53 = 23%. And most of those 12 'starters' ended the year on I.R.

In the grand scheme of things, the only real 'loss' from a production standpoint and timing (after FA and the draft) was Anthony Davis (assuming Bowman and Wilhoite remain healthy).

Can you seriously not comprehend the magnitude of turnover this team has seen in one offseason? One Houston Chronicle writer said he's never seen an offseason like this from a team; I said the same thing several months ago.

Even if you're optimistic that the changes will work out and that the season will be a success, I don't understand how you guys can minimize the nature of just how much change this organization has gone through and how you can be baffled that this is what the media is focusing on. You're really distilling it all down so much as to say our only real loss was Anthony Davis?! I'm sorry but that's absurd.

Do you really think the NFL Network is going to cover Lawrence Okoye's third year in the NFL or the chances of Dres Anderson's making the roster? Come on...

I think when you realize Patrick Willis played 6 games last year (bowman returning), Justin smith was a shell of his former self (still have a deep and talented front 7), and we have a young stud in Carlos Hyde replacing gore(Not to mention Hunter and Bush) its not nearly the catastrophe the casual national media makes it out to be.

Willis played 6 games last year--Weren't we 8-8 last year? Pointing to the fact that he missed most of the season doesn't help the argument here.
Justin Smith a shell of his former self--That's a little harsh; he certainly wasn't up to his 2011 standard but even at a peg down, J. Smith is still better than most of the league.
Deep and talented front 7--Potential? Absolutely. But the only ones that have proven themselves are Dorsey and Ian Williams, and both have had injuries crop up. Quintin Dial has boat loads of potential but let's call it what it is...unproven potential.
A young stud in Carlos Hyde--Impressive debut for sure, but it's a little quick to anoint him a stud. He ran behind Gore and his YPC average when carrying the ball 9 times or more in a game was 2.7. Gonna have to see how he responds to being the lead dog.
Bush--Constantly injured; getting long in the tooth. Hopefully stays healthy and still has the explosiveness for big play potential out of the backfield
Hunter--LOVED this kid after 2011 and has been a true shame to see his career derailed by injury early on. Hoping for the best and if not for the injuries, he may be the most talented back on the team right now. Have to see how he holds up and what kind of role he carves out.

I'm just trying to set realistic expectations. It seems like many on here are spewing a lot of conjecture about players who have riddled pasts or are still unknown commodities.

No offense, but this is like talking to a superficial Seahawks fan about our team.

We were 8-8 b/c Willis only played 6 games? Our defense was top 7 against the run, top 5 in pass defense and #1 in TO's and that was with Justin, Borland, Willis, McDonald, Williams, Dorsey, etc. on the sidelines on I.R. We were 8-8 not b/c those guys were on I.R. (or dismissed) but b/c we had 19 players end the year on I.R. Last year, we finished with Moody, Cromartie and McFadden starting games. Yet, it was still all about the offense, clearly...an area HaRoman failed miserably at which lead us here today.

The fact that we finished 8-8 is a HUGE testament to the depth we had/have...and if you add in the 4 easy games we gave away, we STILL had the talent to be right there at the end of the day. Think about that for a second.

I think you are WAY overvaluing the actual production on the field by older icons and undermining all the talent that got a chance to emerge last year b/c of all these injuries...and the stats back that up...Wilhoite, Johnson, Acker (pre season), Carradine, Dial, Ward, Lynch, etc. not to mention a huge host of others ready to contribute as well now (injured players coming back + draft picks) and a fresh coaching staff who now has the opportunity to PLAY these guys over old vets (Harbaugh).

I think the other thing lost in all of this is how the scheme can now finally open up (way less predictability for defenses)...players such as T.Smith, J.Simpson, a healthy VD, etc. can help open up not only the passing game but the running game as well. The diversity of the RB's can also open up things in the passing game (swing, outlets, primary receivers, save CK's ass, etc.) and for themselves in the running game (stretch the DL vertically off tackle and run up inside the T's ala Gore with power). We have so much depth and talent along the front 7, we can rotate the DL and OLB's all day long and STAY fresh come the playoffs (vs. being completely worn down under Fangio). The DB's are so versatile, we can go with various personnel matchups to beat the opponent and even get Bowman off the field in coverage (save him) and replace him with a robber in Tartt (I'm sure you listened to the podcasts on the 4 safety's Baalke wants). TE's? Good lord...we have a rejuvenated VD and the coaching staff actually wants to use him again (novel idea) and 7 other TE's who are competing like mad men...Carrier, Busta, Bell, McDonald, etc.

Again, at the end of the day, we just need the OL to gel (praying here) and CK to continue to ascend. If not, Logan/Geep are gong to have to scheme the sh!t out of this talent and get that ball out quickly (under 3 seconds); I feel WAY more comfortable with Logan/Geep doing that over HaRoman. Don't you? But when your baseline is 24th on offense and 2nd most sacks at 52 with one of the most mobile QB's in the game, it's not hard to improve upon that even with questionable (unproven) talent along the OL.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by ltrain:
That NFL network live look at the 49ers practice was a joke. Just recited all the players who retired or left the team and then moved on to next team. More of the same "we'll find out" if they can be replaced.

Absolute joke is an understatement. Mooch's 'report' was even worse. He said we lost 12 starters and 5 WR's. WTF? That's ALL these tools can focus on...the familiar names (even went so far to list every loss).

In the same breath they say the league turns over 30% in free agency. We lost '12 starters' / 53 = 23%. And most of those 12 'starters' ended the year on I.R.

In the grand scheme of things, the only real 'loss' from a production standpoint and timing (after FA and the draft) was Anthony Davis (assuming Bowman and Wilhoite remain healthy).

Can you seriously not comprehend the magnitude of turnover this team has seen in one offseason? One Houston Chronicle writer said he's never seen an offseason like this from a team; I said the same thing several months ago.

Even if you're optimistic that the changes will work out and that the season will be a success, I don't understand how you guys can minimize the nature of just how much change this organization has gone through and how you can be baffled that this is what the media is focusing on. You're really distilling it all down so much as to say our only real loss was Anthony Davis?! I'm sorry but that's abusrd.

Do you really think the NFL Network is going to cover Lawrence Okoye's third year in the NFL or the chances of Dres Anderson's making the roster? Come on...

Oh God...here we go. Some guy in Houston who too, is only familiar with "names" not actual production, talent and depth on the roster (see Cossell, Clayton and Jeremiah if you need a 'national media perspective').

Crabtree? This is a loss? Really?
Justin Smith? One arm, second year ending on I.R. and played only 60% of the snaps. He retired b/c he couldn't physically perform anymore.
P.Willy? Hasn't been the same since 2011 (like Justin) and as we've proven, plug anyone in at ILB and they produce big for us.
Borland? Huge upside, downside physically and mentally and he plays the same position as Bowman (i.e. he is NOT a fit for the TED at all).
McDonald? He was already axed and we used our worst DE in TJE in his place and STILL finished top 7 against the run.
Gore? 32 year old RB who's one-dimensional in the running game and is now being asked to basically pass protect for the Colts (reports came out that he'd run far less there).
Davis? Huge loss b/c of the timing of it and his upside. But let's face it, his fat ass was NOT going to get in shape and meet the weight goal for the new ZBS. His sorry ass would rather sit on Twitter all day and watch from afar.
Culliver & Cox? Culliver is a very sound player but also played very cautiously in run support after his concussion and he was way overpaid; Cox came back down to earth the second half of the season.
Iupati? Excellent one-trick pony. Pull right in power and he's golden. Anything else and you're screwed. WAY overpaid.

Anyone else? The bottom line is your are looking at these 'icons' from the full glass of 2011 at their peaks and that's not even close to reality HAD they crawled onto the field for us in 2015. I actually respect that they retired...that's a very noble thing IMHO.

If you haven't noticed, our DL has a chance to be BETTER than last year (top 7). OLB is off the charts great and deep. Secondary has talent all over the place and can be used in multiple personnel settings (big, physical, experienced, quick, fast, versatile, etc.). RB is the most diverse and talented than we may have ever had...WR, same concept. Really, the ONLY area of concern in terms of talent is the OL (naturally) and a few still have concerns about the two CB's which I don't understand with Baalke doing the pickings. Coaching? One of the most experienced coaching staffs in the entire NFL and reports are they have been addressing all the same issues we addressed in here for over 2+ years in the HaRoman era. That's a good thing.

But for me, the season comes down to the OL. If we can somehow secure that to play at even an average level, we're going to be a very very good team (or at least have the ability to be right in the hunt). It's not like this team has ever been devoid of talent. Talent has never been the issue here...coaching, development, personnel choices and game management has (and those are all being addressed now).

I basically just wrote the same thing lol

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I basically just wrote the same thing lol

LOL...just saw that!

It's so funny people bring up Gore so much. We were ready for Hyde to take over the 2nd half of last season. Gore is slowing down, look at his game log last year. If it wasn't for the last 2 games putting up 300 yards on 50 carries, his 'Thank You Frank' games. Some fans only remember how the year ended...

Originally posted by NCommand:
Oh God...here we go. Some guy in Houston who too, is only familiar with "names" not actual production, talent and depth on the roster (see Cossell, Clayton and Jeremiah if you need a 'national media perspective').

Crabtree? This is a loss? Really?
Justin Smith? One arm, second year ending on I.R. and played only 60% of the snaps. He retired b/c he couldn't physically perform anymore.
P.Willy? Hasn't been the same since 2011 (like Justin) and as we've proven, plug anyone in at ILB and they produce big for us.
Borland? Huge upside, downside physically and mentally and he plays the same position as Bowman (i.e. he is NOT a fit for the TED at all).
McDonald? He was already axed and we used our worst DE in TJE in his place and STILL finished top 7 against the run.
Gore? 32 year old RB who's one-dimensional in the running game and is now being asked to basically pass protect for the Colts (reports came out that he'd run far less there).
Davis? Huge loss b/c of the timing of it and his upside. But let's face it, his fat ass was NOT going to get in shape and meet the weight goal for the new ZBS. His sorry ass would rather sit on Twitter all day and watch from afar.
Culliver & Cox? Culliver is a very sound player but also played very cautiously in run support after his concussion and he was way overpaid; Cox came back down to earth the second half of the season.
Iupati? Excellent one-trick pony. Pull right in power and he's golden. Anything else and you're screwed. WAY overpaid.

Anyone else? The bottom line is your are looking at these 'icons' from the full glass of 2011 at their peaks and that's not even close to reality HAD they crawled onto the field for us in 2015. I actually respect that they retired...that's a very noble thing IMHO.

If you haven't noticed, our DL has a chance to be BETTER than last year (top 7). OLB is off the charts great and deep. Secondary has talent all over the place and can be used in multiple personnel settings (big, physical, experienced, quick, fast, versatile, etc.). RB is the most diverse and talented than we may have ever had...WR, same concept. Really, the ONLY area of concern in terms of talent is the OL (naturally) and a few still have concerns about the two CB's which I don't understand with Baalke doing the pickings. Coaching? One of the most experienced coaching staffs in the entire NFL and reports are they have been addressing all the same issues we addressed in here for over 2+ years in the HaRoman era. That's a good thing.

But for me, the season comes down to the OL. If we can somehow secure that to play at even an average level, we're going to be a very very good team (or at least have the ability to be right in the hunt). It's not like this team has ever been devoid of talent. Talent has never been the issue here...coaching, development, personnel choices and game management has (and those are all being addressed now).

Great post!

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
Can you seriously not comprehend the magnitude of turnover this team has seen in one offseason? One Houston Chronicle writer said he's never seen an offseason like this from a team; I said the same thing several months ago.

Even if you're optimistic that the changes will work out and that the season will be a success, I don't understand how you guys can minimize the nature of just how much change this organization has gone through and how you can be baffled that this is what the media is focusing on. You're really distilling it all down so much as to say our only real loss was Anthony Davis?! I'm sorry but that's absurd.

Do you really think the NFL Network is going to cover Lawrence Okoye's third year in the NFL or the chances of Dres Anderson's making the roster? Come on...

When you say 'you guys,' do you mean you Niner fans?