49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by NYniner85:

please reread my edited comment. That cap does factor in the cap raise already and IMO it's being pretty generous (has it go up $11.8M).

I'm not saying we won't cut/restructure/extend players...rookie pool brings the cap down for SF not up (just like everyone else). If we're not gonna use what's accurate now then we're straight up guessing. Go look at those contracts for 2020, who we realistically cutting to get that cap space to $50M+?

Only one that can make SF jump up that much is Jimmy G and if that's the case, we have bigger things to worry worrying about than being top 5 in cap space

Either way you spin it at this point, which is the only thing that is accurate/up to date...they're not close to one of the highest teams in cap space for 2020. Everything else is just guessing.

FWIW we've consistently been top 5 because we've had no talent to pay lol. I mean you've been talking about it for years, on how they only pay so much to FAs.

Those figures are all accurate as it stands today. But like your point about the OL, they lack context. You'll see what I mean this time next year after FA and the draft and the 53 is set.

The caveat is if we do decide to pay Buckner this year.

Literally, the only thing I'm claiming is post FA+Draft, we are currently 4th in cap space and showing you the consistent ranges where we'll land if we don't spend that $24.7M.

I'm not claiming $50M because I need to confirm with AB that his $24.7M projection does include the usual $25-$30M we also need to include in annual rollover. It sounds like he did include it as well as the $10M. If so, that means we're going into 2020 with the lowest figure we've had since 2013 probably.

Originally posted by cciowa:
i hope 85 is right in regards to his theory about the line. like nc said., no issue with our good run blocking but pass protection is woefully inadequate. i hope 85 is right about the line. i will take no pleasure in being right about our line , if it continues to go south and i will be happy to eat crow about the PP with our line

I think the truth is going to settle out in the middle. We have a LOT of people in full panic mode when we were playing 2nd and 3rd stringers across the whole interior against maybe the best pass rushing front in the game and we have a LOT of people acting like nothing needs to be done and it will all be fine. The truth is our starters will be OK if we have them all healthy in time. Richburg and Staley are both formerly elite and still capable of being quite good in both pass pro and run blocking, McGlinchey is young but clearly on his way up and could turn into a dominant force for years. Our starting guards in Person and Tomlinson are serviceable. Nothing great, their pass blocking is worse than their run, but if your tackles are stout and the right call is being made by a healthy center who can hold the point they are fine. At the starter level, a lot rides on Richburg returning to form. He had more than enough good years before the injury to believe this is possible. Where we really hurt is our depth. Garnett is beyond fragile, Garland is not just out of his depth calling protections but also physically getting mauled, The rest look like maybe practice squad material if that....Coleman was a big loss as sad as it sounds.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Those figures are all accurate as it stands today. But like your point about the OL, they lack context. You'll see what I mean this time next year after FA and the draft and the 53 is set.

The caveat is if we do decide to pay Buckner this year.

Literally, the only thing I'm claiming is post FA+Draft, we are currently 4th in cap space and showing you the consistent ranges where we'll land if we don't spend that $24.7M.

I'm not claiming $50M because I need to confirm with AB that his $24.7M projection does include the usual $25-$30M we also need to include in annual rollover. It sounds like he did include it as well as the $10M. If so, that means we're going into 2020 with the lowest figure we've had since 2013 probably.

I hear ya, but I don't see how I'm lacking context as of right now. Everything else is just speculation. I mean 7 months from now we could be looking for a new QB, another edge rusher, and upgrade at LBer because jimmy sucked, Ford was awful, and Kwon tore another ACL sure we'd have a ton of cap space, but we'd have to put it right back into those positions again most likely.

The cap is fluid no doubt, Jason (AB) did an article for this on Niner Nation mid June and threw out a couple of "possibilities", but that's all they are at this pt. This time last yr we already knew that SF was gonna have a s**t ton of cap space...the numbers were right in front of ya.

As far as the Buck deal goes, he's already on the books for like $14M...they could give him signing bonuses and whatnot to keep it about the same in 2020 (maybe a little less).

I just don't see how we're getting to what some of ya'll are saying just by looking at the numbers and throwing out realistic possibilities

Hey I hope I'm wrong and we're top of the league in cap space, but there's teams that without even touching anything are already chilling with like $70 million(not including and sort of roll over)...also I think something bad happens this yr if we're talking about having that kind of cash available.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

I hear ya, but I don't see how I'm lacking context as of right now. Everything else is just speculation. I mean 7 months from now we could be looking for a new QB, another edge rusher, and upgrade at LBer because jimmy sucked, Ford was awful, and Kwon tore another ACL sure we'd have a ton of cap space, but we'd have to put it right back into those positions again most likely.

The cap is fluid no doubt, Jason (AB) did an article for this on Niner Nation mid June and threw out a couple of "possibilities", but that's all they are at this pt. This time last yr we already knew that SF was gonna have a s**t ton of cap space...the numbers were right in front of ya.

As far as the Buck deal goes, he's already on the books for like $14M...they could give him signing bonuses and whatnot to keep it about the same in 2020 (maybe a little less).

I just don't see how we're getting to what some of ya'll are saying just by looking at the numbers and throwing out realistic possibilities

Hey I hope I'm wrong and we're top of the league in cap space, but there's teams that without even touching anything are already chilling with like $70 million(not including and sort of roll over)...also I think something bad happens this yr if we're talking about having that kind of cash available.

Sorry if it came off that I was saying you lacked context. You don't. The numbers do. The only real numbers are the $24.7M noted and where that lands in true cap space today compared to the rest of the league (today) after everything has been paid for.

Everything else is completely fluid.

Good point about Buck. We were sort of factoring in $19M from zero (same with Kittle). But it's just an increase from $14M and you know Paraag is going to structure the hell out of it.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Sorry if it came off that I was saying you lacked context. You don't. The numbers do. The only real numbers are the $24.7M noted and where that lands in true cap space today compared to the rest of the league (today) after everything has been paid for.

Everything else is completely fluid.

Good point about Buck. We were sort of factoring in $19M from zero (same with Kittle). But it's just an increase from $14M and you know Paraag is going to structure the hell out of it.

all good

the only truths at this very point are we will have around $25M to carry over into 2020. We currently have no cap space (actually negative) in 2020 outside of that carryover....we knew this time last yr that SF was gonna be loaded with dough. At this point we can't say that with certainty. We also know things can and will change, we just don't know what that will be.

IMO A LOT has to happen to create the type of cap space that some are you guys are talking about them having. I think for the most part it would be bad news if they do end up with a ton of space because that means some of our important players s**t the bed hard.

We've had all this cash for yrs because we didn't have anyone worth signing and never invested into bigger FAs. That's kinda changed (which is a good thing) I'd rather SF have to think about having to extend good players vs having to blow a ton of money in FA because we blow and have all this cash lol.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

all good

the only truths at this very point are we will have around $25M to carry over into 2020. We currently have no cap space (actually negative) in 2020 outside of that carryover....we knew this time last yr that SF was gonna be loaded with dough. At this point we can't say that with certainty. We also know things can and will change, we just don't know what that will be.

IMO A LOT has to happen to create the type of cap space that some are you guys are talking about them having. I think for the most part it would be bad news if they do end up with a ton of space because that means some of our important players s**t the bed hard.

We've had all this cash for yrs because we didn't have anyone worth signing and never invested into bigger FAs. That's kinda changed (which is a good thing) I'd rather SF have to think about having to extend good players vs having to blow a ton of money in FA because we blow and have all this cash lol.

Yeah, the extra $25M was (maybe) my bad because AB usually doesn't include that and like he said, we always carry over $25-30M every year in ADDITION to his current cap projection. So $24.7 + $25M = $50M.

That's where the confusion lies.

So when we update that cap info section in my Team Information thread, I always have that rollover disclaimer at the bottom of the paragraph so fans know to add that to AB's current projection.

So for example, this was last year's (2nd most cap space):

2018 Salary Cap Outlook:
The 49ers have $37.1M cap space in 2018 with a $177.2M confirmed cap. With that, we're expecting to rollover just over $35M for a total of $72.1M for 2019, before cuts like Watson, Mitchell, Garcon, and Marsh.

And true about spendings. You have to have the players first. Or you have to go buy them. Paraag hasn't had to do much of either. But things are starting to change. We now have a few players in that $10M+ range, a FQB and ER. Soon to be Buckner and top TE. We may not see any top tier FA's next year, maybe a mid tier FA but mostly our own in-house extensions and draft picks.

I'm gonna pray to football Jesus that Garnett finally does something with his god damn life.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Yeah, the extra $25M was (maybe) my bad because AB usually doesn't include that and like he said, we always carry over $25-30M every year in ADDITION to his current cap projection. So $24.7 + $25M = $50M.

That's where the confusion lies.

So when we update that cap info section in my Team Information thread, I always have that rollover disclaimer at the bottom of the paragraph so fans know to add that to AB's current projection.

So for example, this was last year's (2nd most cap space):


And true about spendings. You have to have the players first. Or you have to go buy them. Paraag hasn't had to do much of either. But things are starting to change. We now have a few players in that $10M+ range, a FQB and ER. Soon to be Buckner and top TE. We may not see any top tier FA's next year, maybe a mid tier FA but mostly our own in-house extensions and draft picks.

He always carries over $25-$30M because we have it to carry over. The difference is SF usually already has a ton of cap space available the following yr...it's the exact opposite this yr. they're never in the red (mainly because we didn't have a good roster).

So this yr we have around $25M we are able to carry over (that's what we have for cap space currently minus what we owe in 2020 because we're in the red).

Where are you getting this extra $25M? They have to cut and restructure a bunch of stuff to get that cash and we have to talk about Buck/Kittle...that's all pure speculation at this pt.

Originally posted by Youngone:
I'm gonna pray to football Jesus that Garnett finally does something with his god damn life.

jimmy is most likely praying as well.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

He always carries over $25-$30M because we have it to carry over. The difference is SF usually already has a ton of cap space available the following yr...it's the exact opposite this yr. they're never in the red (mainly because we didn't have a good roster).

So this yr we have around $25M we are able to carry over (that's what we have for cap space currently minus what we owe in 2020 because we're in the red).

Where are you getting this extra $25M? They have to cut and restructure a bunch of stuff to get that cash and we have to talk about Buck/Kittle...that's all pure speculation at this pt.

Correct. And I believe your figure of $25M total is accurate and does include the red plus the $25M rollover, therefore $24.7M. Nothing more. I hadn't realized he included them both together already this time which is why I was thrown off.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

CAP
Thank you guys for reviewing the cap issue in this thread. REALLY APPRECIATE IT. It's super helpful.

OL Context

NY and Paso - yep context does matter and there are other factors that contribute to pass protection but the starting OL is neither reliable (health) or good and that's a huge issue going forward. The lapses we're seeing are communication breakdowns, guards not recognizing stunts. Holding blocks/helping too long on the decoy while the free rusher hits the QB. 5 vs 4 should be advantage OL for 2.5 seconds. We're not seeing that from our passpro. Our WRs don't have time to get into their patterns before the ball is thrown. I agree context is everything and that's the added context. 2.5 seconds. If Jimmy can't find a throwing lane and is hurried within 2.5 seconds.

LOL.

Translation. If you were hoping for a premium OL in FA, f*getaboutit.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
CAP
Thank you guys for reviewing the cap issue in this thread. REALLY APPRECIATE IT. It's super helpful.

OL Context

NY and Paso - yep context does matter and there are other factors that contribute to pass protection but the starting OL is neither reliable (health) or good and that's a huge issue going forward. The lapses we're seeing are communication breakdowns, guards not recognizing stunts. Holding blocks/helping too long on the decoy while the free rusher hits the QB. 5 vs 4 should be advantage OL for 2.5 seconds. We're not seeing that from our passpro. Our WRs don't have time to get into their patterns before the ball is thrown. I agree context is everything and that's the added context. 2.5 seconds. If Jimmy can't find a throwing lane and is hurried within 2.5 seconds.

LOL.

Translation. If you were hoping for a premium OL in FA, f*getaboutit.

Not exactly. For those who think the OL should be the number 1 priority. The team can always cut/trade Jimmy G and Defo. That way the team will have enough cap room to sign two to three new offensive linemen from FA and use the first round pick to draft another premium o lineman.

It is all about priority.

Originally posted by littleken:

Not exactly. For those who think the OL should be the number 1 priority. The team can always cut/trade Jimmy G and Defo. That way the team will have enough cap room to sign two to three new offensive linemen from FA and use the first round pick to draft another premium o lineman.

It is all about priority.

Mullens time baby!

Is everyone here really talking about salary cap issues? WE HAVE THE BEST SALARY CAP GUY IN THE NFL AND HIS NAME IS PARAAGE MARATHE!!! DONT WORRY ABOUT CAP. WE HAVE NEVER HAD ISSUES WITH SALARY CAP SINCE MARATHE HAS BEEN HERE. the offensive line is fine. Too many negative people here trying to fit their agenda. This is a good team that will take the next step and be in playoff contention this season.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

CAP
Thank you guys for reviewing the cap issue in this thread. REALLY APPRECIATE IT. It's super helpful.

OL Context

NY and Paso - yep context does matter and there are other factors that contribute to pass protection but the starting OL is neither reliable (health) or good and that's a huge issue going forward. The lapses we're seeing are communication breakdowns, guards not recognizing stunts. Holding blocks/helping too long on the decoy while the free rusher hits the QB. 5 vs 4 should be advantage OL for 2.5 seconds. We're not seeing that from our passpro. Our WRs don't have time to get into their patterns before the ball is thrown. I agree context is everything and that's the added context. 2.5 seconds. If Jimmy can't find a throwing lane and is hurried within 2.5 seconds.

LOL.

Translation. If you were hoping for a premium OL in FA, f*getaboutit.

Then how do you suggest 49ers "improve" their terrible o line? You don't have any suggestions you just spew bs to try and fit your agenda