49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

This link above you referenced. These figures are as of today after everyone has paid their FA's, rookies, etc. That's real cap space and stable. AB updates it per daily transaction (cuts/signings). The 2020 stuff and beyond is very challenging to decipher in terms of what space we'll really have compared to the rest of the league.

I still have no idea how you can say $30M in cap space should make SF top 5 overall in 2020? There's teams that have 2 plus times that amount currently.

We will have cash to work with but it's not gonna be top end money like in the past imo

I just told you. Click on the very link you provided. That's 2019. Today. Actual "real" cap space after all teams spendings.

IF we end up with $50M-$30-$20M (whatever), compare that to these figures to give you an idea where we'd fall in cap space for next year.

Colts have the most right now at $47M. We currently have the 4th most at $26M.

So if we only go into 2020 with $25M and have $0 rollover, that's still a high amount compared to the rest of the league.

Now, if we do shell out big money to Buckner and Kittle, yes, that figure is going to drop way down that list like you said.

Originally posted by cciowa:
i hope 85 is right in regards to his theory about the line. like nc said., no issue with our good run blocking but pass protection is woefully inadequate. i hope 85 is right about the line. i will take no pleasure in being right about our line , if it continues to go south and i will be happy to eat crow about the PP with our line

Don't be fooled cc. The line is god damn awful.

Originally posted by cciowa:

i hope 85 is right in regards to his theory about the line. like nc said., no issue with our good run blocking but pass protection is woefully inadequate. i hope 85 is right about the line. i will take no pleasure in being right about our line , if it continues to go south and i will be happy to eat crow about the PP with our line

He's not. He's wrong every year on this topic. j/k

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by cciowa:

i hope 85 is right in regards to his theory about the line. like nc said., no issue with our good run blocking but pass protection is woefully inadequate. i hope 85 is right about the line. i will take no pleasure in being right about our line , if it continues to go south and i will be happy to eat crow about the PP with our line

He's not. He's wrong every year on this topic. j/k

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by littleken:

Originally posted by Jeepzilla:

Originally posted by Samerson449:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by Samerson449:

I don't understand this fetish that our oline sucks by a lot of people here. Mcglinchey is a stud. Staley is a hall of famer. Tomlinson is decent. Richburg is good when healthy. So that's 4 positions where we are good at.

It's the Chicken Little crowd that's crying about it.

Of course, it is. Week 1 can't get here soon enough.

And then they use pff to prove their point when its a negative stat. But when it's a positive stat they say pff isn't an indicator of the player

I go by how many times my qb gets pounded on, which we lead the league in again, so to me it's pretty straight Fwd.

Can you please show me the stats that back this statement?

We actually finished 31st in QB hits allowed, Texans finished 32nd and led the league.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?conference=null&offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2018&seasonType=REG&experience=&tabSeq=2&role=TM

While I don't think our OL is great in pass-pro, there's got to be context beyond "our QB getting pound on" in regards to PP.

Do we have mobile QBs? Do they have pocket awareness?
Did our WRs do a good job in separating last yr?
Did our QBs hold onto the ball too long?
How was the play calling?

I mean look at that list you provided. We can all agree Dallas/KC/Philly/GB has some of the top OLs in football (and quality QB play overall)

They allowed the 7th, 9th, 11th, 10th MOST QB hits in football last yr. Dak was the 2nd highest sacked QB last yr, so I guess the Dallas OL is junk?

If there was one game where we didn't want to compare our OL pass pro to everyone else, it was this one. The DEN 1s with Chubb, Harris, and von Miller...you will not find a more fierce front line than that in all of football.

And, from a coaching standpoint, we should have anticipated that. Letting those guys terrorize JG on his first plays back after 12 months was a very bad idea. Mullie should really have started, and JG should have played against DEN 2s. But that is woulda , coulda, shoulda.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by cciowa:
i hope 85 is right in regards to his theory about the line. like nc said., no issue with our good run blocking but pass protection is woefully inadequate. i hope 85 is right about the line. i will take no pleasure in being right about our line , if it continues to go south and i will be happy to eat crow about the PP with our line

Don't be fooled cc. The line is god damn awful.

i know that. but was just saying.. if by rare chance i 85 is right, i will eat crow.. if i am right,,,, well i take no pleasure in it. because if people like you and i are right and think this line will be garbage all year. then we are not looking at 8 wins like i think we could do

Originally posted by NCommand:
I just told you. Click on the very link you provided. That's 2019. Today. Actual "real" cap space after all teams spendings.

IF we end up with $50M-$30-$20M (whatever), compare that to these figures to give you an idea where we'd fall in cap space for next year.

Colts have the most right now at $47M. We currently have the 4th most at $26M.

So if we only go into 2020 with $25M and have $0 rollover, that's still a high amount compared to the rest of the league.

Now, if we do shell out big money to Buckner and Kittle, yes, that figure is going to drop way down that list like you said.

Click on 2020 in the link (that's what I sent but it must have put 2019).

Colts have roughly $47M in 2019 and currently have $63M in space in 2020. They can roll over up to $47 million and would have $110M in cap space in 2020 if they want.

THIS is the current 2020 cap space for every team (which is saying the cap will be around $200M) this is in millions obviously...

Texans$79,367
Cardinals$69,026
Cowboys$67,222
Colts$63,429
Dolphins$61,658
Seahawks$60,864
Bills$59,923
Giants$55,332
Buccaneers$55,305
Chargers$55,043
Ravens$52,490
Rams$49,655,327
Broncos$47,748
Raiders$45,653
Patriots$45,396
Bengals$43,516
Jets$39,452
Redskins$35,447
Panthers$35,344
Titans$24,080
Saints$23,888
Browns$23,400
Lions$20,144
Chiefs$18,075
Packers$9,070
Eagles$8,071
Steelers$7,706
449ers($524,401)
Bears($4,838,469)
Jaguars($8,263,639)
Falcons($8,689,848)
Vikings($11,757,232)

(FWIW TinyPic isn't working so I couldn't screenshot this).

SO at this very point without any cuts/restructures/extensions we have $25,923,285 in cap space heading into 2020 (that's with rollover). As you can see that would put us 20th in the league in cap space NOT looking at other teams and what they have to roll over as well.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by cciowa:
i hope 85 is right in regards to his theory about the line. like nc said., no issue with our good run blocking but pass protection is woefully inadequate. i hope 85 is right about the line. i will take no pleasure in being right about our line , if it continues to go south and i will be happy to eat crow about the PP with our line

He's not. He's wrong every year on this topic. j/k

i love 85,, he just loves to argue and wear people down to a nub until they give up!! now the fact that it looks like he is right about jordan mathews and i was wrong about him is besides the point

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by cciowa:
i hope 85 is right in regards to his theory about the line. like nc said., no issue with our good run blocking but pass protection is woefully inadequate. i hope 85 is right about the line. i will take no pleasure in being right about our line , if it continues to go south and i will be happy to eat crow about the PP with our line

He's not. He's wrong every year on this topic. j/k

well. at least he never made a thread like someone did at the end of 2017, is our line really as bad as we think. lord. it is stunning. you have a zillion dollar qb and yet.. oh never f**king mind

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
If there was one game where we didn't want to compare our OL pass pro to everyone else, it was this one. The DEN 1s with Chubb, Harris, and von Miller...you will not find a more fierce front line than that in all of football.

And, from a coaching standpoint, we should have anticipated that. Letting those guys terrorize JG on his first plays back after 12 months was a very bad idea. Mullie should really have started, and JG should have played against DEN 2s. But that is woulda , coulda, shoulda.

the problem is doc..... we have a tendency to make less than stellar defensive lines look like the 76 gold rush against us.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Click on 2020 in the link (that's what I sent but it must have put 2019).

Colts have roughly $47M in 2019 and currently have $63M in space in 2020. They an roll over up to $47 million and would have $110M in cap space in 2020 if they want.

THIS is the current 2020 cap space for every team (which is saying the cap will be around $200M)

Gotcha. 2020 is useless though because nobody has made roster moves, no FA, no draft, no cap increase, no rookie pool, no cuts, no restructured contracts, etc. It's just a tally as of today. In short, it's phony money. Deceptive.

Using a real benchmark like 2019 today gives you a much better perspective of where we'll wind up based on AB's projection of $24.71M "to start." Now you can work backwards from that based on who you have left to pay.

The reason I use this is because when everything is stable, that $2M to $47M range is pretty stable. We've consistently been in the top 5 every year forever. That could start to change now though.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Gotcha. 2020 is useless though because nobody has made roster moves, no FA, no draft, no cap increase, no rookie pool, no cuts, no restructured contracts, etc. It's just a tally as of today. In short, it's phony money. Deceptive.

Using a real benchmark like 2019 today gives you a much better perspective of where we'll wind up based on AB's projection of $24.71M "to start." Now you can work backwards from that based on who you have left to pay.

i recall during the infamous year of jt,, he was in total denial there was anything wrong with the o line untill abut week 10, i will just say.. the powers to be today do not seemed to be overly worried about the line that was just as bad now in pass protection as it was when they took over for chip. and unlike those years. they actually.. hopefully. have the franchise qb we never had back then

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Click on 2020 in the link (that's what I sent but it must have put 2019).

Colts have roughly $47M in 2019 and currently have $63M in space in 2020. They an roll over up to $47 million and would have $110M in cap space in 2020 if they want.

THIS is the current 2020 cap space for every team (which is saying the cap will be around $200M)

Gotcha. 2020 is useless though because nobody has made roster moves, no FA, no draft, no cap increase, no rookie pool, no cuts, no restructured contracts, etc. It's just a tally as of today. In short, it's phony money. Deceptive.

Using a real benchmark like 2019 today gives you a much better perspective of where we'll wind up based on AB's projection of $24.71M "to start." Now you can work backwards from that based on who you have left to pay.

The reason I use this is because when everything is stable, that $2M to $47M range is pretty stable. We've consistently been in the top 5 every year forever. That could start to change now though.

please reread my edited comment. That cap does factor in the cap raise already and IMO it's being pretty generous (has it go up $11.8M).

I'm not saying we won't cut/restructure/extend players...rookie pool brings the cap down for SF not up (just like everyone else). If we're not gonna use what's accurate now then we're straight up guessing. Go look at those contracts for 2020, who we realistically cutting to get that cap space to $50M+?

Only one that can make SF jump up that much is Jimmy G and if that's the case, we have bigger things to worry worrying about than being top 5 in cap space

Either way you spin it at this point, which is the only thing that is accurate/up to date...they're not close to one of the highest teams in cap space for 2020. Everything else is just guessing.

FWIW we've consistently been top 5 because we've had no talent to pay lol. I mean you've been talking about it for years, on how they only pay so much to FAs.

Originally posted by cciowa:
i love 85,, he just loves to argue and wear people down to a nub until they give up!! now the fact that it looks like he is right about jordan mathews and i was wrong about him is besides the point

Nah, I'm not arguing just to argue...I don't care too much if you give up or change your opinion. I'm just gonna try and state what I think and look at it as logical as I can. I hate it when fans just say something and don't supply actual context to back it up.

Hey I'm wrong a lot haha BUT I'm not gonna throw out some blind lovefest homer comment or be negative without some sort of facts to back it up.

The OL can always be better...but you gotta look at every QB hit, hurry, pressure, sack and see if it was the OL, the WRs, the play call, OR if it was just a damn good defensive play

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by littleken:

Originally posted by Jeepzilla:

Originally posted by Samerson449:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by Samerson449:

I don't understand this fetish that our oline sucks by a lot of people here. Mcglinchey is a stud. Staley is a hall of famer. Tomlinson is decent. Richburg is good when healthy. So that's 4 positions where we are good at.

It's the Chicken Little crowd that's crying about it.

Of course, it is. Week 1 can't get here soon enough.

And then they use pff to prove their point when its a negative stat. But when it's a positive stat they say pff isn't an indicator of the player

I go by how many times my qb gets pounded on, which we lead the league in again, so to me it's pretty straight Fwd.

Can you please show me the stats that back this statement?

We actually finished 31st in QB hits allowed, Texans finished 32nd and led the league.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?conference=null&offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2018&seasonType=REG&experience=&tabSeq=2&role=TM

While I don't think our OL is great in pass-pro, there's got to be context beyond "our QB getting pound on" in regards to PP.

Do we have mobile QBs? Do they have pocket awareness?
Did our WRs do a good job in separating last yr?
Did our QBs hold onto the ball too long?
How was the play calling?

I mean look at that list you provided. We can all agree Dallas/KC/Philly/GB has some of the top OLs in football (and quality QB play overall)

They allowed the 7th, 9th, 11th, 10th MOST QB hits in football last yr. Dak was the 2nd highest sacked QB last yr, so I guess the Dallas OL is junk?

It is on Shanahan and Lynch to make it work and limit those hits.

The OL sucks at PP and it was not addressed.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by cciowa:
i love 85,, he just loves to argue and wear people down to a nub until they give up!! now the fact that it looks like he is right about jordan mathews and i was wrong about him is besides the point

Nah, I'm not arguing just to argue...I don't care too much if you give up or change your opinion. I'm just gonna try and state what I think and look at it as logical as I can. I hate it when fans just say something and don't supply actual context to back it up.

Hey I'm wrong a lot haha BUT I'm not gonna throw out some blind lovefest homer comment or be negative without some sort of facts to back it up.

The OL can always be better...but you gotta look at every QB hit, hurry, pressure, sack and see if it was the OL, the WRs, the play call, OR if it was just a damn good defensive play

you are a good citizen and a fine poster