There are 308 users in the forums

49ers Offensive Line

Shop Find 49ers gear online ⇨
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. I don't even know what the PFF grades were. I just assumed they were insanely high d/t the low sample size because, that's a PFF-thing.

That said, obviously I hope he becomes a dominant starter for the next 10 years. But at this point, you believe in him as much as you do Ward or Verrett. If you get anything from those guys, be grateful. But definitely don't count on them.

oh for sure...Garnett is depth for one more yr at worst, best case is what you said, but that might not be reality. It just really sucks because we haven't seen him play. I don't count his rookie yr under Kelly, everyone sucked even Joe. Dude was pretty damn good in college.

I think he's more talented then Person, just needs to actually be healthy for a change.

Yup yup. Hope he really pushes and earns it. He's a good kid.
  • Giedi
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,883
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Giedi:
I think folks underrate intelligence as a factor in the OLine working. I mean if a guy is intelligent enough to see a stunt or blitz and picks it up, and gets run over, it's better than if a supremely athletic OLineman whiffing on a blitz or stunt pickup because he wasn't intelligent enough to see it. At least if the OLineman gets run over, he gives Jimmy that extra second to get the pass off or at least duck under the sack and preserve his body, or at least absorbs enough of the momentum of the blitzer to cushion a hit on Jimmy.

In other words, I think folks are just looking too much at athletic ability and really aren't seeing the bigger picture.

The problem isn't getting the pass off, its what happens after the pass is released. QB hits. Further, the 49ers were ranked almost last in pass protection. Sure continuity does help, but injuries to the OL today won't leave this line with continuity if Person is playing out of position during most of training camp. I think it's a nice saying to talk about intelligence and continuity but if talent wasn't a significant factor, we wouldn't rate prospects out of college who were both talented and intelligent. One can't expect to consistently block to Aaron Donalds of the NFL with 6th and 7th round talent and expect the QB to have a mostly clean jersey and not end the year with 100 + hits *after* the pass is released.

Disagree. When a QB is able to convert 3rd downs, it affects defensive strategy. And if a QB is constantly getting hit *after* the pass is thrown, that's against the current rules. The refs have to be called out on it. Again, Jimmy was injured when he was struggling for extra yardage not because he stayed in the pocket and got hurt.

I think the OLine is in as good a shape as you can make it and still get a pass rush on defense. If you had 10 first round draft picks, maybe you can have enough draft capital to spread around to all the positions that needed upgrading this year, but that wasn't the scenario. You only have so much draft capital, and again, there are other ways to protect an QB other than simply drafting first round draft pick OLineman every year.
  • Giedi
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,883
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by Giedi:
One reason, not the only reason, is that we didn't have the ability to hold a lead. If you are behind, you tend to pass more and less run. Pass more, get sacked more. Now I'm not saying that's the only reason - but it's *a* reason.

with a a qb coming off a major injury and our poor pass protection history, this area is more key than it has ever been before

agreed...gonna have to call plays to help with the subpar pass pro.

Again, three new interior OLinemen prior to Jimmy getting hurt last year, who have never really played a real game with each other. So you have to add that to the mix. In other words, it takes a while to gel that OLine in terms of everybody being on the same page to pick up stunts, blitzes, and various zone pressure schemes.

I understand the concern on the OLine, and I was a bit disappointed that they picked a punter (and he's a good player) instead of a OLineman in this years draft, but I think the more the OLinemen play and get reps together, my hope is that their interior pass protection improves.
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Giedi:
I think folks underrate intelligence as a factor in the OLine working. I mean if a guy is intelligent enough to see a stunt or blitz and picks it up, and gets run over, it's better than if a supremely athletic OLineman whiffing on a blitz or stunt pickup because he wasn't intelligent enough to see it. At least if the OLineman gets run over, he gives Jimmy that extra second to get the pass off or at least duck under the sack and preserve his body, or at least absorbs enough of the momentum of the blitzer to cushion a hit on Jimmy.

In other words, I think folks are just looking too much at athletic ability and really aren't seeing the bigger picture.

The problem isn't getting the pass off, its what happens after the pass is released. QB hits. Further, the 49ers were ranked almost last in pass protection. Sure continuity does help, but injuries to the OL today won't leave this line with continuity if Person is playing out of position during most of training camp. I think it's a nice saying to talk about intelligence and continuity but if talent wasn't a significant factor, we wouldn't rate prospects out of college who were both talented and intelligent. One can't expect to consistently block to Aaron Donalds of the NFL with 6th and 7th round talent and expect the QB to have a mostly clean jersey and not end the year with 100 + hits *after* the pass is released.

Disagree. When a QB is able to convert 3rd downs, it affects defensive strategy. And if a QB is constantly getting hit *after* the pass is thrown, that's against the current rules. The refs have to be called out on it. Again, Jimmy was injured when he was struggling for extra yardage not because he stayed in the pocket and got hurt.

I think the OLine is in as good a shape as you can make it and still get a pass rush on defense. If you had 10 first round draft picks, maybe you can have enough draft capital to spread around to all the positions that needed upgrading this year, but that wasn't the scenario. You only have so much draft capital, and again, there are other ways to protect an QB other than simply drafting first round draft pick OLineman every year.


Giedi, we don't agree on this, as i was appalled at the number of terrific "shots" JimmyG took ...well after the ball was gone. What i do agree with tho, is that what was missing was a good long talking with the refs. I never thot of it at the time, but man there was a case to be made...and not just once, multiple times. So...this yr, we see that again, i would hope kyle gets on the refs and tells them to call it....or tell the offenders they will get 15 yds if he sees it again. That is a point well worth remembering.
  • Giedi
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,883
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Giedi, we don't agree on this, as i was appalled at the number of terrific "shots" JimmyG took ...well after the ball was gone. What i do agree with tho, is that what was missing was a good long talking with the refs. I never thot of it at the time, but man there was a case to be made...and not just once, multiple times. So...this yr, we see that again, i would hope kyle gets on the refs and tells them to call it....or tell the offenders they will get 15 yds if he sees it again. That is a point well worth remembering.

Injuries to the Arby's and WR's didn't help Jimmy/Mullens in the passing game either. When a QB can't get his Wr's to uncover, chances are he has to throw the ball away or take a sack. Another factor is BeatHard getting Beat Hard because he couldn't read the defense fast enough and get the ball off.
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Giedi:
I think folks underrate intelligence as a factor in the OLine working. I mean if a guy is intelligent enough to see a stunt or blitz and picks it up, and gets run over, it's better than if a supremely athletic OLineman whiffing on a blitz or stunt pickup because he wasn't intelligent enough to see it. At least if the OLineman gets run over, he gives Jimmy that extra second to get the pass off or at least duck under the sack and preserve his body, or at least absorbs enough of the momentum of the blitzer to cushion a hit on Jimmy.

In other words, I think folks are just looking too much at athletic ability and really aren't seeing the bigger picture.

The problem isn't getting the pass off, its what happens after the pass is released. QB hits. Further, the 49ers were ranked almost last in pass protection. Sure continuity does help, but injuries to the OL today won't leave this line with continuity if Person is playing out of position during most of training camp. I think it's a nice saying to talk about intelligence and continuity but if talent wasn't a significant factor, we wouldn't rate prospects out of college who were both talented and intelligent. One can't expect to consistently block to Aaron Donalds of the NFL with 6th and 7th round talent and expect the QB to have a mostly clean jersey and not end the year with 100 + hits *after* the pass is released.

Disagree. When a QB is able to convert 3rd downs, it affects defensive strategy. And if a QB is constantly getting hit *after* the pass is thrown, that's against the current rules. The refs have to be called out on it. Again, Jimmy was injured when he was struggling for extra yardage not because he stayed in the pocket and got hurt.

I think the OLine is in as good a shape as you can make it and still get a pass rush on defense. If you had 10 first round draft picks, maybe you can have enough draft capital to spread around to all the positions that needed upgrading this year, but that wasn't the scenario. You only have so much draft capital, and again, there are other ways to protect an QB other than simply drafting first round draft pick OLineman every year.

So first, QBs get hit all the time after the pass is thrown and it's *not* against the rules. Evidenced by 2 years now the 49ers have over 100+ QB hits after the pass leaves the QB. The second the ball leaves, the defensive player can still hit the QB if that pass is in progress. No, I don't think the OL is as good as it gets and "having 10 first round picks"; there's clearly more than one way to build a starting OL. We've done what we could, hoping that players return from injury. I get the concept. We signed for depth thinking that no one player will be out for a significant enough time to affect overall performance. However, that doesn't address the rankings and statistics around starters (many of which have been listed in this thread).

You can disagree with me about my opinion, but 125 hits are a fact. The 49ers ranking in the lower quarter of the league in pressures and pass pro is a fact. OL as evidenced by how well we did in FA - we didn't draft *any* of our interior line - goes to show you there's more than one way to build a line which you think is "great". Tomlinson, Richburg and Person are all FA. Their back-ups are FA also. So if we're going to go the FA route, keep going big. We have cap space. I'd like to see us be as aggressive with fixing the pass-rush as addressing the OL. Now that's an opinion you can disagree with.

We're going to agree to disagree (again on this issue like many others) but that's what makes this forum great.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Giedi, we don't agree on this, as i was appalled at the number of terrific "shots" JimmyG took ...well after the ball was gone. What i do agree with tho, is that what was missing was a good long talking with the refs. I never thot of it at the time, but man there was a case to be made...and not just once, multiple times. So...this yr, we see that again, i would hope kyle gets on the refs and tells them to call it....or tell the offenders they will get 15 yds if he sees it again. That is a point well worth remembering.

The problem is the rate at which the QB hits happen which is indicative of a problem with the interior line. It's a well-documented fact that Richburg played hurt. Here's to hoping he gets healthy OR Person can be a good enough center where Jimmy isn't getting creamed or only given 3 seconds to read and throw before someone come unblocked ready to drill him into the ground. I'm hoping there will be improved play from continuity. I'm not really counting on the WRs this year. That'll be a bonus if they get open and able to stretch the field regularly. The RBs catching passes, however, will be super interesting and should help Jimmy a LOT with time. Anxious to see that this year and that should help the OL numbers.
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Giedi:
I think folks underrate intelligence as a factor in the OLine working. I mean if a guy is intelligent enough to see a stunt or blitz and picks it up, and gets run over, it's better than if a supremely athletic OLineman whiffing on a blitz or stunt pickup because he wasn't intelligent enough to see it. At least if the OLineman gets run over, he gives Jimmy that extra second to get the pass off or at least duck under the sack and preserve his body, or at least absorbs enough of the momentum of the blitzer to cushion a hit on Jimmy.

In other words, I think folks are just looking too much at athletic ability and really aren't seeing the bigger picture.

The problem isn't getting the pass off, its what happens after the pass is released. QB hits. Further, the 49ers were ranked almost last in pass protection. Sure continuity does help, but injuries to the OL today won't leave this line with continuity if Person is playing out of position during most of training camp. I think it's a nice saying to talk about intelligence and continuity but if talent wasn't a significant factor, we wouldn't rate prospects out of college who were both talented and intelligent. One can't expect to consistently block to Aaron Donalds of the NFL with 6th and 7th round talent and expect the QB to have a mostly clean jersey and not end the year with 100 + hits *after* the pass is released.

Disagree. When a QB is able to convert 3rd downs, it affects defensive strategy. And if a QB is constantly getting hit *after* the pass is thrown, that's against the current rules. The refs have to be called out on it. Again, Jimmy was injured when he was struggling for extra yardage not because he stayed in the pocket and got hurt.

I think the OLine is in as good a shape as you can make it and still get a pass rush on defense. If you had 10 first round draft picks, maybe you can have enough draft capital to spread around to all the positions that needed upgrading this year, but that wasn't the scenario. You only have so much draft capital, and again, there are other ways to protect an QB other than simply drafting first round draft pick OLineman every year.

Last 5 games jimmy played for us in 2017 he was getting blasted after the pass constantly and we sure as heck were not getting the calls.
2018, I'd have to go Watch the games again to see how often he was hit after the throw.
  • Giedi
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,883
Originally posted by NinerGM:
So first, QBs get hit all the time after the pass is thrown and it's *not* against the rules. Evidenced by 2 years now the 49ers have over 100+ QB hits after the pass leaves the QB. The second the ball leaves, the defensive player can still hit the QB if that pass is in progress. No, I don't think the OL is as good as it gets and "having 10 first round picks"; there's clearly more than one way to build a starting OL. We've done what we could, hoping that players return from injury. I get the concept. We signed for depth thinking that no one player will be out for a significant enough time to affect overall performance. However, that doesn't address the rankings and statistics around starters (many of which have been listed in this thread).

You can disagree with me about my opinion, but 125 hits are a fact. The 49ers ranking in the lower quarter of the league in pressures and pass pro is a fact. OL as evidenced by how well we did in FA - we didn't draft *any* of our interior line - goes to show you there's more than one way to build a line which you think is "great". Tomlinson, Richburg and Person are all FA. Their back-ups are FA also. So if we're going to go the FA route, keep going big. We have cap space. I'd like to see us be as aggressive with fixing the pass-rush as addressing the OL. Now that's an opinion you can disagree with.

We're going to agree to disagree (again on this issue like many others) but that's what makes this forum great.

Having a defense that can keep a lead and having some WR's that can uncover against man press and get RAC and generate some points in the first half so you don't have Jimmy passing to catch up in the 2nd half and getting injured trying to get a first down is another way to prevent Jimmy from getting hit. If Jimmy is handing off the ball, he's *not* going to get hit on that pay. There's more than one way to skin a Pettis.
Originally posted by Jeepzilla:
Last 5 games jimmy played for us in 2017 he was getting blasted after the pass constantly and we sure as heck were not getting the calls.
2018, I'd have to go Watch the games again to see how often he was hit after the throw.

And it didn't matter if this was the first or the fourth quarter. Kyles offense isn't really designed to sit on a lead. I'm thinking those who believe we're just going to score a lot of points by the half and then sit on a lead doesn't really reflect the 49ers of seasons past. The scoring that was consistent was by a guy who's holding out. Even with an improved pass rush, thinking we can hold a 6 point lead for a quarter is a little far fetched in today's NFL. We will need better OL play along with better WR play to score more points. Red zone efficiency relies even more on the OL and we're going to have to find ways to either give JG enough time to pass or power open holes for the RB in the RZ and in goal line situations.

  • Giedi
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,883
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Jeepzilla:
Last 5 games jimmy played for us in 2017 he was getting blasted after the pass constantly and we sure as heck were not getting the calls.
2018, I'd have to go Watch the games again to see how often he was hit after the throw.

And it didn't matter if this was the first or the fourth quarter. Kyles offense isn't really designed to sit on a lead. I'm thinking those who believe we're just going to score a lot of points by the half and then sit on a lead doesn't really reflect the 49ers of seasons past. The scoring that was consistent was by a guy who's holding out. Even with an improved pass rush, thinking we can hold a 6 point lead for a quarter is a little far fetched in today's NFL. We will need better OL play along with better WR play to score more points. Red zone efficiency relies even more on the OL and we're going to have to find ways to either give JG enough time to pass or power open holes for the RB in the RZ and in goal line situations.

49ers did just fine holding on to leads in 1994 with that NASCAR offense. The WCO is predicated on converting 3rd downs via pass, whereas the Bo Shembechler offense is predicated on converting 3rd downs via the run. Either way - both are ball control offenses. It's just that Kyle's offense has more speed and hence more explosiveness. Kyle's offense bogged down in the super bowl because of injuries, I think, to his main running back. I think any offense will bog down if your run game disappears and becomes one dimensional. All of Wash's offense and even Seifert's offenses had strong run games. Wendell Tyler, Roger Craig, Tom Rathman, Floyd Watters etc.. As long as Kyle has a good reliable running back he can depend on, his 4 minute offense should be able to play keep away in the 4th quarter of games if we're in the lead.
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Jeepzilla:
Last 5 games jimmy played for us in 2017 he was getting blasted after the pass constantly and we sure as heck were not getting the calls.
2018, I'd have to go Watch the games again to see how often he was hit after the throw.

And it didn't matter if this was the first or the fourth quarter. Kyles offense isn't really designed to sit on a lead. I'm thinking those who believe we're just going to score a lot of points by the half and then sit on a lead doesn't really reflect the 49ers of seasons past. The scoring that was consistent was by a guy who's holding out. Even with an improved pass rush, thinking we can hold a 6 point lead for a quarter is a little far fetched in today's NFL. We will need better OL play along with better WR play to score more points. Red zone efficiency relies even more on the OL and we're going to have to find ways to either give JG enough time to pass or power open holes for the RB in the RZ and in goal line situations.

49ers did just fine holding on to leads in 1994 with that NASCAR offense. The WCO is predicated on converting 3rd downs via pass, whereas the Bo Shembechler offense is predicated on converting 3rd downs via the run. Either way - both are ball control offenses. It's just that Kyle's offense has more speed and hence more explosiveness. Kyle's offense bogged down in the super bowl because of injuries, I think, to his main running back. I think any offense will bog down if your run game disappears and becomes one dimensional. All of Wash's offense and even Seifert's offenses had strong run games. Wendell Tyler, Roger Craig, Tom Rathman, Floyd Watters etc.. As long as Kyle has a good reliable running back he can depend on, his 4 minute offense should be able to play keep away in the 4th quarter of games if we're in the lead.
I agree with this. Also the WCO > the Bo.
I think Kyle is more patient with Garnett than the Zone, due to nagging injuries to Garnett the last couple of years. Might be the reason why they don't seemed to upgrade the Guards at all this off-season
  • 91til
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 334
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
I think Kyle is more patient with Garnett than the Zone, due to nagging injuries to Garnett the last couple of years. Might be the reason why they don't seemed to upgrade the Guards at all this off-season

One things for sure we should all be cautiously rooting for Garnett (notice I didn't say expecting anything). If he's able to step up and take the RG job it only makes our line better
Originally posted by 91til:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
I think Kyle is more patient with Garnett than the Zone, due to nagging injuries to Garnett the last couple of years. Might be the reason why they don't seemed to upgrade the Guards at all this off-season

One things for sure we should all be cautiously rooting for Garnett (notice I didn't say expecting anything). If he's able to step up and take the RG job it only makes our line better

Even if he doesn't get the starting job, he would be very good for depth. I thought did a good job when he got a chance to play.
Share 49erswebzone